Walden/Werner

[atapcl]

 Walden is one of the top paid LBs on the team. Werner is the top pick. Maybe they can both play at the same time. Why not try one at ILB (possibly Walden). Walden is big enough, fast enough and strong enough. He also has NFL experience though it is as an OLB. Last year we moved Foukou to ILB though he had played OLB. We could have Werner and Mathis as OLBs with Freeman and Walden as ILBs. Sidbury and McNary could provide depth at OLB and Angerer with Conner backups at ILB.

 

[Gavin]

Conner was our best ILB at stopping the run last year with 4 stuffs(13 in 3 years)according to ESPN, Not sure I would take him out for Walden who had  5 in 5 years. Thats why I question people who say Walden is good against the run....Now Walden does have 7 pass deflections and 2 picks in that same amount of time which is a indicator he has been better against the pass

[Mouthfire]

Being paid well, doesn't necessarily mean you're good.  I just want our best players on the field.  If Walden isn't one of them, he shouldn't start.

[Dustin]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

[John Dee]

I kinda do.

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

[atapcl]

Being paid well, doesn't necessarily mean you're good.  I just want our best players on the field.  If Walden isn't one of them, he shouldn't start.

I agree that our best players should play but it seems they paid Walden because they anticipate him being one of the best players. Freeney was the highest paid player last year but he was not a good OLB. Freeney still started though maybe he should have come off the bench as a pass rushing end.

[CjMcGirt23]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

Nope

[atapcl]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

Sheppard seems to be the same as Gavin was saying about Walden. Not a real run stuffer and more of a good pass defender.

[BrentMc11]

Conner was our best ILB at stopping the run last year with 4 stuffs(13 in 3 years)according to ESPN, Not sure I would take him out for Walden who had  5 in 5 years. Thats why I question people who say Walden is good against the run....Now Walden does have 7 pass deflections and 2 picks in that same amount of time which is a indicator he has been better against the pass

Conner gets very little respect in stopping the run.  I say turn him loose on the QB one inawhile and listen to the pads pop!  Kid can hit to.

[Tark The Shark]

I think we will see more 5 LB sets. Pagano liked using that in Baltimore.

 

I think with Mathis, Werner, Freeman, Sheppard, and Hughes/Walden we could create some pressure while confusing the offense.

[Gavin]

Conner gets very little respect in stopping the run.  I say turn him loose on the QB one inawhile and listen to the pads pop!  Kid can hit to.

Thats what I dont understand, Conner has shown the ability to be able to blitz right through the A gap but they dont do that often with him

[TKnight24]

NO

Freeman & Connor = Batman & Robin of our Defense

[Carlos Danger]

not that i think that Walden couldn't play ILB... actually, I think the role would fit his skill set nicely, but I think we need bodies at OLB more... nobody knows how the rookie will perform in his first year and Jerry is gone... if Walden is as terrible as PFF thinks, then Sidbury is our second best guy at the position as of now.... lots of ?s at OLB, but ILB is set for this season... but 2014 is another story altogether...

[Mouthfire]

I agree that our best players should play but it seems they paid Walden because they anticipate him being one of the best players. Freeney was the highest paid player last year but he was not a good OLB. Freeney still started though maybe he should have come off the bench as a pass rushing end.

 

Maybe... maybe not.  I guess I'm less optimistic about Walden than everyone else. 

 

To me, it seems that they signed Walden as an insurance policy, in case we couldn't get someone else better in the draft.  You never know ahead of time whether someone like Werner will fall to you.  Yes, they probably overpaid Walden... yes, he's getting paid like a starter.  But they had the cap room to overpay a bit, and the way his contract is structured, they can cut him in a year or two without regrets.  That's not a bad way to make sure you have enough bodies at a specific position.

[colts1993]

I think that we wont really have a "starter" at olb because were going to have a rotation of players coming in since we.keep getting linebackers

[CR91]

NO

Freeman & Connor = Batman & Robin of our Defense

 

so whats mathis

[colts1993]

I think that we wont really have a "starter" at olb because were going to have a rotation of players coming in since we.keep getting linebackers

[BronxColtNYC]

I think we will see more 5 LB sets. Pagano liked using that in Baltimore.

 

I think with Mathis, Werner, Freeman, Sheppard, and Hughes/Walden we could create some pressure while confusing the offense.

We traded Hughes.

[TKnight24]

so whats mathis

Ezio (Assasins Creed)

He's a QB Assassin

[TKnight24]

I think that we wont really have a "starter" at olb because were going to have a rotation of players coming in since we.keep getting linebackers

No matter how much you rotate, whoever steps on the field with the Defense is our starter at OLB

[CS Colts Fan]

I think he meant Montori Hughes the new Draftee  DT/DE 

[Dustin]

Ezio (Assasins Creed)

He's a QB Assassin

 

Altaïr was better.

[TKnight24]

Altaïr was better.

That's who I was gonna put but didn't know how to spell it & was too lazy to look it up

Either one works

[Colts_Fan12]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

I think so

[Tark The Shark]

We traded Hughes.

 

Oh man, I think I really have finally gone off the deep end. 

 

I meant Sidbury but thought Hughes.

[BleedBlu8792]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

I think Connor still gets the nod. I believe Sheppard was brought in as depth, with the loss of Fokou, and possibly the starter next year if they don't re-up Connor. Angerer will be gone either in a trade this year or outright at the end of the season.

[coltsfanatic24]

Conner will start at ILB along with Freeman, Sheppard would come in on 3rd downs for pass coverage.

[BrentMc11]

Thats what I dont understand, Conner has shown the ability to be able to blitz right through the A gap but they dont do that often with him

Gavin....it actually feels good we agree on something for  a change.  HA HA!!!  I totally agree with you here.  When blitzing Conner does not mess around!

 

My hopes are with us playing a true 3-4, we will now be able to come with anybody on any given play....like you...would love to see him split whatever gap the stunt allows....

[Superman]

Conner was our best ILB at stopping the run last year with 4 stuffs(13 in 3 years)according to ESPN, Not sure I would take him out for Walden who had  5 in 5 years. Thats why I question people who say Walden is good against the run....Now Walden does have 7 pass deflections and 2 picks in that same amount of time which is a indicator he has been better against the pass

 

 

Since when is tackles for loss a good measure of how well a player defends the run? Does a tackle at the line of scrimmage count? What about a tackle for a one yard gain?

[Gavin]

 

Since when is tackles for loss a good measure of how well a player defends the run? Does a tackle at the line of scrimmage count? What about a tackle for a one yard gain?

Not sure whats with the attitude nor do I know why your not taking this up with ESPN or Pro Football Weekly, 2 sites that keep up witht those sort of stats(Althoug I believe both vae slightly different numbers on this subject I believe, Long story short we were not good enough as a team against the run, largely do to players being out of position....particularly our Linebackers in my opinion. Either way I'd take a tackle for loss or a stuff any day over a gain.w hat if that 1 yard gain is for a td or a first down

[UKColt13]

Sort of off topic, but does anyone else think that Sheppard will start at the other ILB spot next to Freeman?

 

Bills fans will tell you that he is primarily a depth player. I still see Conner starting next to Freeman, with Sheppard as a backup.

[Malakai432]

I think we could use all of them on a situational basis pending on if all our LBs do well in camp/practice. Could be kind of a good thing always having fresh legs in the game.

Also, factor in a possible injury at least we are not really lacking in the depth department lol!

[Superman]

Not sure whats with the attitude nor do I know why your not taking this up with ESPN or Pro Football Weekly, 2 sites that keep up witht those sort of stats(Althoug I believe both vae slightly different numbers on this subject I believe, Long story short we were not good enough as a team against the run, largely do to players being out of position....particularly our Linebackers in my opinion. Either way I'd take a tackle for loss or a stuff any day over a gain.w hat if that 1 yard gain is for a td or a first down

 

It's not an attitude, nor do I have a problem with the stat in itself. It's your application of the stat that makes no sense. Tackles for loss are not the only measure of whether a player is good against the run. As I said, a tackle for no gain is very useful to a defense, as is a tackle for a small gain. There's no stat for setting the edge, which is really what Pagano likes about Walden. So it puzzles me that you continue to say "Walden only has five tackles for loss, so I question whether he's good against the run." 

[GoColts8818]

Walden was signed to sure up our run defense at Linebacker and address a need people have complained about for years (I wish I had a dime for everytime someone had complained about Mathis and Freeney not playing the run).  He will play OLB on running downs.  Werner was brought in to really replace Jerry Hughes in terms of being a second pass rusher who can be developed into Mathis's replacement (He is going into his 11th season).  My guess is Werner will spell Mathis and maybe play OLB for Walden on passing situations.  Grigson pretty much said we had been having a luxury of having Mathis and Freeney for years and he's right.  Most teams are lucky if they have one pro-bowl pass rusher let alone two.  So I don't think they are looking for Werner to come in and replace Freeney right off the bat and be an every down linebacker.  They would like him to develop into that and frankly by the time he does he will be replacing Mathis and not Freeney.  Werner and Walden are here to do two different things.  One is a run stopper and the other is a pass rusher.  They will be used as such and people need to recognize that just because Walden is not a pass rusher doesn't mean he can't play.  He's just going to have a different role in our defense and when you have two guys here who can be pass rushers (Mathis and Werner) you can afford to have a guy whose job it is to stop the run. 

 

You kinda have to look at like this.  On offense if you have a third and short you are going to bring in an extra blocker to help block for the running back.  If it's third and long you are going to bring in an extra receiver to try to catch a pass to pick up a first down.  Is the extra receiver and extra blocker competing with each other for playing time or do they just have different roles on the team?  That's kinda what you have in Werner and Walden.  They have different roles.  One is going to be a pass rusher and the other a run stopper. 

[ColtJ82]

Walden was signed to sure up our run defense at Linebacker and address a need people have complained about for years (I wish I had a dime for everytime someone had complained about Mathis and Freeney not playing the run).  He will play OLB on running downs.  Werner was brought in to really replace Jerry Hughes in terms of being a second pass rusher who can be developed into Mathis's replacement (He is going into his 11th season).  My guess is Werner will spell Mathis and maybe play OLB for Walden on passing situations.  Grigson pretty much said we had been having a luxury of having Mathis and Freeney for years and he's right.  Most teams are lucky if they have one pro-bowl pass rusher let alone two.  So I don't think they are looking for Werner to come in and replace Freeney right off the bat and be an every down linebacker.  They would like him to develop into that and frankly by the time he does he will be replacing Mathis and not Freeney.  Werner and Walden are here to do two different things.  One is a run stopper and the other is a pass rusher.  They will be used as such and people need to recognize that just because Walden is not a pass rusher doesn't mean he can't play.  He's just going to have a different role in our defense and when you have two guys here who can be pass rushers (Mathis and Werner) you can afford to have a guy whose job it is to stop the run. 

 

You kinda have to look at like this.  On offense if you have a third and short you are going to bring in an extra blocker to help block for the running back.  If it's third and long you are going to bring in an extra receiver to try to catch a pass to pick up a first down.  Is the extra receiver and extra blocker competing with each other for playing time or do they just have different roles on the team?  That's kinda what you have in Werner and Walden.  They have different roles.  One is going to be a pass rusher and the other a run stopper. 

In theory, this is correct. However, in today's NFL, every down is a passing down.Yes, there are obvious running situations and obvious passing situations. Walden obviously comes out of the game on 3rd and long. I think we will have a pretty consistent rotation of edge players. This is about as deep as I can ever remember us being on defense. 

[GoColts8818]

In theory, this is correct. However, in today's NFL, every down is a passing down.Yes, there are obvious running situations and obvious passing situations. Walden obviously comes out of the game on 3rd and long. I think we will have a pretty consistent rotation of edge players. This is about as deep as I can ever remember us being on defense. 

No it's not.  Yes every down can be a passing down but there are clearly downs where you expect the other team to run before they throw.  Those are the downs Walden will play and that's why you have coaches to figure out when to play him and when to play Werner.  If it's 3rd and 15 it's a no brainer which one you have in there same if it's 3rd and 1.  However, most people look at first down and most second downs under 8 yards as running downs so you will see Walden on most of those.  Werner would get the call on most third downs I am guessing especially if it's 3rd and longer than 3 yards for a first down. 

 

Will some teams try to maybe take advantage of bad personal?  Sure.  However, it's not like you have a kicker out there trying to play OLB if Werner gets caught in a running play that they thought was a pass or Walden gets caught in a passing play they thought was a run.  They can still make plays even it's not their strong suit.  Frankly, most teams try less for matches ups unless it's just a super clear mismatch and are more focused on just out executing you. That's what wins games at the NFL level.  You have to be able to do what you do better than the other guy.  So they are going to be more focused on trying to do that than they are going to be going hey Werner is in the game I know it's 3rd and 14 but let's run! 

[Restored]

Competition brings out the best in players. Let them go at it. I'm sure both sill see ample playing time. One will just be the starter and the other will be a rotation guy. And with how the NFL is with injuries, players are a play away from getting in the game.

[Malakai432]

Since when is tackles for loss a good measure of how well a player defends the run? Does a tackle at the line of scrimmage count? What about a tackle for a one yard gain?

Super shouldn't that be a "Face Plant?!??!"

[ColtJ82]

No it's not.  Yes every down can be a passing down but there are clearly downs where you expect the other team to run before they throw.  Those are the downs Walden will play and that's why you have coaches to figure out when to play him and when to play Werner.  If it's 3rd and 15 it's a no brainer which one you have in there same if it's 3rd and 1.  However, most people look at first down and most second downs under 8 yards as running downs so you will see Walden on most of those.  Werner would get the call on most third downs I am guessing especially if it's 3rd and longer than 3 yards for a first down. 

 

Will some teams try to maybe take advantage of bad personal?  Sure.  However, it's not like you have a kicker out there trying to play OLB if Werner gets caught in a running play that they thought was a pass or Walden gets caught in a passing play they thought was a run.  They can still make plays even it's not their strong suit.  Frankly, most teams try less for matches ups unless it's just a super clear mismatch and are more focused on just out executing you. That's what wins games at the NFL level.  You have to be able to do what you do better than the other guy.  So they are going to be more focused on trying to do that than they are going to be going hey Werner is in the game I know it's 3rd and 14 but let's run! 

Ummm.......that is pretty much the long version of what I just said.

[Gavin]

It's not an attitude, nor do I have a problem with the stat in itself. It's your application of the stat that makes no sense. Tackles for loss are not the only measure of whether a player is good against the run. As I said, a tackle for no gain is very useful to a defense, as is a tackle for a small gain. There's no stat for setting the edge, which is really what Pagano likes about Walden. So it puzzles me that you continue to say "Walden only has five tackles for loss, so I question whether he's good against the run." 

He is good with setting the edge, But a stuff is tackling a running back for no gain to negative yards and he has 5 of those (according to espn since NFL.com does not keep track of that) the last 2 years