Gavins Final Mock

[Gavin]

1.KC-Luke Joeckel-Tackle

2.Jax-Dion Jordan-DE

3.Oak-Star Lotulelei-DT

4.Eagles-Sharrif Floyd-DT

5.Lions-Barkevious Mingo-DE

6.Browns-Dee Milliner-CB

7.Cardinals-Eric Fisher-OT

8.Bills-Arthur Brown-ILB

9.Jets-Tavon Austin-WR

10.Titans-Bjoern Werner-DE

11.Chargers-Lane Johnson-OT

12.Dolphins-Ziggy Ansah-DE

13.Bucs-Sheldon Richardson-DT

14.Panthers-Kenny Vaccaro-S

15.Saints-Xavier Rhodes-CB

16.Rams-Cordarelle Patterson-WR

17.Steelers-Deandre Hopkins-WR

18.Cowboys-Chance Warnack-G

19.Giants-D.J. Fluker-OT

20.Bears-Manti Teo-ILB

21.Bengals-John Cyprien-S

22.Rams-Keenan Allen-WR

23.Vikings-Datone Jones

24.Colts-Jonathan Cooper-G

25.Vikings-Alec Ogletree-ILB

26.Packers-Barrett Jones-C/G

27.Texans-Jarvis Jones-DE

28.Broncos-Datone Jones-DE

29.Patriots-Cornellius Carradine-DE

30.Falcons-Damontre Moore-DE

31.49ers-Jesse Williams-NT/DE

32.Ravens-Quinton Patton-WR

 

 

Some unexpected players are going to fall it simply happens almost every year, some team falls in love with a player and it causes another player to fall

 

[Gavin]

Crap I have Datone Jones twice,

 

23-Vikings-Datone Jones

28-Broncos-Damontre Moore

30-Alex Okafor

[BronxColtNYC]

Would love cooper

[Gavin]

Would love cooper

I would to, lol I'd love if I was fully awake and would have caught my original post having Datone Jones going twice in the 1st round  thats some serious money he would be making right there, just glad I caught it in time to correct it

[BrentMc11]

We get Cooper.....I will do backflips at the Colts Opener......I liked our Pick Gavin.  As Captain Pickard used to say on Star Trek/Next Generation:  Make it so Numba 1  

 

[FightLikeSin]

This would be incredible if it happened. But Cooper lasting that long, Jarvis lasting past us and Barrett Jones as a first round pick...those are not situations I can see happening. But I like it, regardless.

[CR91]

One of my three possible picks

[Jason_]

wow if Cooper AND Jarvis Jones are still on the board at #24?!?  I'm probably one of the few who would say this but I think I'd rather go Jarvis Jones in that situation.

[pacolts56]

I think this Cooper pick actually has a decent chance of happening.

 

I know the incredible hype he and Warmack are getting and they likely deserve it.

 

But two guards taken in the 23 picks of a draft is still a pretty rare occurrence....and the 3 round value at OG this year could possibly hold teams such as Tennessee, Carolina and the Cowboys from jumping on a guard so early.

 

There could be other players there for them that may represent a better BPA/need selection.....and none of those teams are one OG away from SB contention.

[Balzer40]

Cooper and Jones both being available when we pick, I'm taking Cooper everytime without hesitation. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I am not sold on Jones being a game changer in our defense. I still think he'll be a better fit in a 4-3 in the pro's.

[BOTT]

No QB?

[Jason_]

Cooper and Jones both being available when we pick, I'm taking Cooper everytime without hesitation. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I am not sold on Jones being a game changer in our defense. I still think he'll be a better fit in a 4-3 in the pro's.

 

The only way I could see Jones thriving in a 4-3 is as a Sam LB like Von Miller in a system like the Broncos run.  I'm honestly not sure about the answer to this so that's why I'm asking, but are there a lot of 4-3 teams that primarily use their Sam LB to rush the QB?

[Colts_Fan12]

Cooper and Jones both being available when we pick, I'm taking Cooper everytime without hesitation. I know I'm in the minority on this, but I am not sold on Jones being a game changer in our defense. I still think he'll be a better fit in a 4-3 in the pro's.

I agree I'd take cooper aswell I like jones alot too but cooper is just an amazing guard and that IMO is our biggest hole

[BronxColtNYC]

The only way I could see Jones thriving in a 4-3 is as a Sam LB like Von Miller in a system like the Broncos run.  I'm honestly not sure about the answer to this so that's why I'm asking, but are there a lot of 4-3 teams that primarily use their Sam LB to rush the QB?

Sam is the strong side backer that is usually used in stopping the run. (Teams tend to rush to the right side of the line a majority of the time.)

Will backers are the pass rushers predominantly.

Lawrence Taylor, vonn miller are examples of will linebackers.

Michael boley would be an example of a Sam linebacker in a 4-3

Hope it helps.

[LockeDown]

Remember, we need a big time guard so we are hoping and praying Cooper falls to us, but most other teams arent' even thinking about guards.  They have more exciting fish to fry, so it isn't out of the question that he might be there at 24.  I would love it.

[Jason_]

Sam is the strong side backer that is usually used in stopping the run. (Teams tend to rush to the right side of the line a majority of the time.)

Will backers are the pass rushers predominantly.

Lawrence Taylor, vonn miller are examples of will linebackers.

Michael boley would be an example of a Sam linebacker in a 4-3

Hope it helps.

 

What each LB is used for is more determined by the individual team's system than anything else.  I wouldn't consider Lance Briggs much of a blitzer/pass rusher and he's the Bear's WLB.  And didn't the giants run a 3-4 while LT was there?  

 

Also, this is from the Bronco's website official roster:

 

58 Miller, Von SLB 6-3 237 24 2 Texas A&M

 

[Colts_Fan12]

Remember, we need a big time guard so we are hoping and praying Cooper falls to us, but most other teams arent' even thinking about guards. They have more exciting fish to fry, so it isn't out of the question that he might be there at 24. I would love it.

It sounds too good to be true dont it the possibility of cooper to complete our line is just fantastic

[Balzer40]

The only way I could see Jones thriving in a 4-3 is as a Sam LB like Von Miller in a system like the Broncos run.  I'm honestly not sure about the answer to this so that's why I'm asking, but are there a lot of 4-3 teams that primarily use their Sam LB to rush the QB?

 

 

 

I couldn't tell ya the answer to that either, but there is just something about Jones that I'm not sold on a a rush LBer is our system. I honestly do not even know what it is to tell you the truth. He's a little undersized for my liking and his terrible 40 time actually does worry me a little. IMO there just isn't any excuse for somebody that is supposedly so athletically gifted and the fact that he isn't that big to run such a ungodly slow time. It makes me question his work ethic and if he thought he would just cruise to a high draft pick without having to work for it. If we draft him, I hope he proves me wrong.

[ztboiler]

Crap I have Datone Jones twice,

 

23-Vikings-Datone Jones

28-Broncos-Damontre Moore

30-Alex Okafor

Too many are asleep on DT Sylvester Williams - I see him missing from too many fan Mocks.  Some of the media experts are predicting his rise, and I'll bet most of the GM's are noticing.  I'd be very surprised if he makes it out of the first round.  After Warmack and Cooper, Williams is who I'd most like to see as a colt.  There are a lot of rare skill sets in the NFL - easy to overstate one's importance over others - but the most elusive skill set for the Colts over the years has been finding interior DL that are good pass rushers.  If you watch the rare occurrences where top flight QB's have low scoring games, they are usually accompanied by great interior pass rush performances.  Freeney and Mathis have been frequently muted over the years because the pocket doesn't collapse enough up front.  Different D now, but if all of your pressure comes from the edge and blitzers then pass rush is much easier to slow down or quick strike away from.  300+ lb men that can consistently collapse the pocket are becoming the most valuable and rare skill set in the NFL.  Sylvester Williams may be that kind of talent and seems to be a solid worker and character guy with a great story.  I think he becomes a top 20 pick....but I'm hoping he is a colt.  Datone Jones may be a nice back up plan if not.

[BronxColtNYC]

They are all used differently depending on the scheme, but for traditional measures, that's usually how it fits.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1074050-nfl-defensive-schemes-the-basics-of-the-4-3-3-4-and-ryan-defenses

it's more about scheme than alignment.

4-3 one gap defense

"The strong-side linebacker is responsible for the TE in coverage and will be the guy who controls the outside on strong-side runs. In the running game, the middle linebacker will cover the "A" gap not covered by the nose tackle.

He will also be calling all the plays and adjustments and likely covering the short middle in the passing game. The weak-side linebacker is more of a roaming player. They control the outside in the run game on the weak side and also play a lot of zone in the passing game.

[ztboiler]

What each LB is used for is more determined by the individual team's system than anything else.  I wouldn't consider Lance Briggs much of a blitzer/pass rusher and he's the Bear's WLB.  And didn't the giants run a 3-4 while LT was there?  

 

Also, this is from the Bronco's website official roster:

 

 

 

You are correct by my way of thinking.  Some 4-3's use their personnel more like a hybrid 4-3 (greatly increasing in frequency) with a big DE on the strong side, the size of a 2-gap DE (ie. Wolfe in Denver, Odrick in Miami, Red Bryant in Seattle etc.)  These 4-3 teams use a Von Miller type the same way that we use Walden or Jarret Johnson type in our scheme as the other edge rusher (only nobody does is like Miller)  The version of the 4-3 we know here doesn't really use linebackers this way, so the SAM and WILL terms we know best around here are completely different.  

[Jason_]

They are all used differently depending on the scheme, but for traditional measures, that's usually how it fits.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/1074050-nfl-defensive-schemes-the-basics-of-the-4-3-3-4-and-ryan-defenses

it's more about scheme than alignment.

4-3 one gap defense

"The strong-side linebacker is responsible for the TE in coverage and will be the guy who controls the outside on strong-side runs. In the running game, the middle linebacker will cover the "A" gap not covered by the nose tackle.

He will also be calling all the plays and adjustments and likely covering the short middle in the passing game. The weak-side linebacker is more of a roaming player. They control the outside in the run game on the weak side and also play a lot of zone in the passing game.

 

I agree it's about scheme...I said the same thing.  As for the bolded text, I also agree with that, but none of it refers to pass rushing or blitzing because that is especially dependent on the team, scheme and personnel.  In the Broncos defense, which I believe the base is  4-3 under, Miller as the Sam LB often lines up on the LOS and is used as a blitzer/pass rusher.  If Jarvis Jones is going to go to a 4-3 team and thrive then it would need to be in a similar scheme/system.  Now he could also be used as a Will LB in a 4-3 Over defense and still be used primarily as a blitzer.  Basically though my point was that in order for him to thrive in a 4-3 defense, he would pretty much have to be an OLB who would be used primarily as a blitzer, which to my knowledge there are not many teams aside from Denver that run such a system, but I don't follow every 4-3 team closely enough to know how many others use an OLB primarily as a blitzer, which is why I asked

[Jason_]

You are correct by my way of thinking.  Some 4-3's use their personnel more like a hybrid 4-3 (greatly increasing in frequency) with a big DE on the strong side, the size of a 2-gap DE (ie. Wolfe in Denver, Odrick in Miami, Red Bryant in Seattle etc.)  These 4-3 teams use a Von Miller type the same way that we use Walden or Jarret Johnson type in our scheme as the other edge rusher (only nobody does is like Miller)  The version of the 4-3 we know here doesn't really use linebackers this way, so the SAM and WILL terms we know best around here are completely different.  

 

right...before Pagano got here we were running a cover-2/tampa-2 base defense.  It's teams like Denver and others that run a base 4-3 under/over that use their LB's more as blitzers because those are more hybrid-like versions of a 4-3 whereas we run a hybrid of a 3-4.  

[Dustin]

1.KC-Luke Joeckel-Tackle

2.Jax-Dion Jordan-DE

3.Oak-Star Lotulelei-DT

4.Eagles-Sharrif Floyd-DT

5.Lions-Barkevious Mingo-DE

6.Browns-Dee Milliner-CB

7.Cardinals-Eric Fisher-OT

8.Bills-Arthur Brown-ILB

9.Jets-Tavon Austin-WR

10.Titans-Bjoern Werner-DE

11.Chargers-Lane Johnson-OT

12.Dolphins-Ziggy Ansah-DE

13.Bucs-Sheldon Richardson-DT

14.Panthers-Kenny Vaccaro-S

15.Saints-Xavier Rhodes-CB

16.Rams-Cordarelle Patterson-WR

17.Steelers-Deandre Hopkins-WR

18.Cowboys-Chance Warnack-G

19.Giants-D.J. Fluker-OT

20.Bears-Manti Teo-ILB

21.Bengals-John Cyprien-S

22.Rams-Keenan Allen-WR

23.Vikings-Datone Jones

24.Colts-Jonathan Cooper-G

25.Vikings-Alec Ogletree-ILB

26.Packers-Barrett Jones-C/G

27.Texans-Jarvis Jones-DE

28.Broncos-Datone Jones-DE

29.Patriots-Cornellius Carradine-DE

30.Falcons-Damontre Moore-DE

31.49ers-Jesse Williams-NT/DE

32.Ravens-Quinton Patton-WR

 

 

Some unexpected players are going to fall it simply happens almost every year, some team falls in love with a player and it causes another player to fall

 

Arthur Brown is such a huge reach it's not even funny.

 

Th Giants won't pass over Cooper for Fluker is they go O-line.

 

There is absolutely no way possible that Barrett Jones goes in the first round.

 

Patton won't go before Justin Hunter.

____________________________________________________

 

A lot of your other picks are questionable, but these stood out to me.

[Dustin]

The only way I could see Jones thriving in a 4-3 is as a Sam LB like Von Miller in a system like the Broncos run.  I'm honestly not sure about the answer to this so that's why I'm asking, but are there a lot of 4-3 teams that primarily use their Sam LB to rush the QB?

 

Seattle does it with Bruce Irvin IIRC.

 

And with their DC going to Jacksonville, they'll be doing it next year as well.

[Balzer40]

Arthur Brown is such a huge reach it's not even funny.

 

Th Giants won't pass over Cooper for Fluker is they go O-line.

 

There is absolutely no way possible that Barrett Jones goes in the first round.

 

Patton won't go before Justin Hunter.

____________________________________________________

 

A lot of your other picks are questionable, but these stood out to me.

 

 

 

I agree with all of this. IMO Brown is only going to appeal to teams running a cover 2/Tampa 2 system. He's a very undersized MLBer.

 

Barrett Jones is a 3rd rd. prospect.

[ztboiler]

right...before Pagano got here we were running a cover-2/tampa-2 base defense.  It's teams like Denver and others that run a base 4-3 under/over that use their LB's more as blitzers be

 

 

Funny how everything is trending toward hybrid these days - it looks like the new normal.  The principles of the Ravens hybrid seemed new to us here a year ago, but they weren't new to the league in any way - even outside of Baltimore.  The Pats have been hybrid for years, and the Colts were just one of the last of a handful of teams to be sticking with 2 speed rush DE's and 2 bland DT's - a scheme that will not and never has worked in the NFL without a Warren Sapp caliber 3 tech.

[coltsfanatic24]

Cooper is a good player but i don't think will draft a offensive player until later rounds when our entire draft last year was offensive. We need a defensive playmaker a guy who can force tunovers.Jarvis Jones,Datone Jones,and possibly Carradine if we trade back are the guys i would want with our 1st pick. We already have a great leader on the offensive side in Luck, we need the same type of leader on defense.

[Colts_Fan12]

Cooper is a good player but i don't think will draft a offensive player until later rounds when our entire draft last year was offensive. We need a defensive playmaker a guy who can force tunovers.Jarvis Jones,Datone Jones,and possibly Carradine if we trade back are the guys i would want with our 1st pick. We already have a great leader on the offensive side in Luck, we need the same type of leader on defense.

Going offense last year won't stop grigs from taking one if the top 2 o linemen in the draft if he is available OG is our biggest need

[coltsfanatic24]

Going offense last year won't stop grigs from taking one if the top 2 o linemen in the draft if he is available OG is our biggest need

We had a top 10 offense last year and that was with the worst offense line. We made huge additions with Cherilus and Donald Thomas that will make our offense even better. You don't need 5 great offensive linemen to have a great offense but at least 3. The problem last year was on a 4 man rush Justice or Mcglynn always needed help which led to 1 on 1''s with Link,Reitz. Now Cherilus,Castonzo,and Thomas can go 1 on 1 vs their man which leaves Satele and Mcglynn or Winters to double team the last pass rusher.We need a great pass rusher whether it's a interior player or OLB more then a guard.

[Gavin]

No QB?

Not a franchise QB in this draft, Its very possible someone reaches however

[Archer]

Cooper would be my fondest wish in this draft.  Probably won't happen, but there are a handful of things I find unlikely that will happen in this draft... 

[NewColtsFan]

Gavin.......

 

I won't micromanage your effort....    at least you had first round people going in the first round.....

 

Right up until one....     #26.

 

Look....   is it possible that Barrett Jones goes in the first round?    Sure,  anything is possible......     Can you find a website that predicts that he will?    Sure,  anyone can offer a similar opinion....

 

But you've been quick to point to NFL.com for Okafor....    they have him with a borderline 1st ground grade.

 

Well...   they don't have one for Jones.    But your man crush blinds you to that.     You love him, so you're putting him in the first.    even though most everyone else that is reputable views him roughly in the 3rd round....

 

Hey....   it's your mock....     and that's my only serious objection....

 

One last thought......

 

Why is it your LAST mock?     Do two more!      Do one next week and another the day before the draft starts!

 

If you slow down and post less leading up to the draft, then I'm sure something is wrong with you!    I'll worry you've been kidnapped or drugged or your ill....   Don't do that to us!       

[BOTT]

Not a franchise QB in this draft, Its very possible someone reaches however

That may be true, however we all know 1 or 2 will go in the first.

Oh, and I don't think the Lions would pass on Fisher for Mingo...who would be a much better fit in a 34 IMO.

[Gavin]

Gavin.......

 

I won't micromanage your effort....    at least you had first round people going in the first round.....

 

Right up until one....     #26.

 

Look....   is it possible that Barrett Jones goes in the first round?    Sure,  anything is possible......     Can you find a website that predicts that he will?    Sure,  anyone can offer a similar opinion....

 

But you've been quick to point to NFL.com for Okafor....    they have him with a borderline 1st ground grade.

 

Well...   they don't have one for Jones.    But your man crush blinds you to that.     You love him, so you're putting him in the first.    even though most everyone else that is reputable views him roughly in the 3rd round....

 

Hey....   it's your mock....     and that's my only serious objection....

 

One last thought......

 

Why is it your LAST mock?     Do two more!      Do one next week and another the day before the draft starts!

 

If you slow down and post less leading up to the draft, then I'm sure something is wrong with you!    I'll worry you've been kidnapped or drugged or your ill....   Don't do that to us!       

I probably will do another mock, seems to be some high draft pick every year that has a little to much fun and blows there draft stock, as to Barrett Jones, your likely right, Packers need a WR, Center and another wr or 2 now with Jennings in Minnesota and Driver retiring, they also need a rb and LB, I see them going LB before any of those but Center I dont believe is out of the question and in my opinion Jones is the best Center in the draft

[NewColtsFan]

I probably will do another mock, seems to be some high draft pick every year that has a little to much fun and blows there draft stock, as to Barrett Jones, your likely right, Packers need a WR, Center and another wr or 2 now with Jennings in Minnesota and Driver retiring, they also need a rb and LB, I see them going LB before any of those but Center I dont believe is out of the question and in my opinion Jones is the best Center in the draft

 

Even if I agree with you that Jones is the best center in the draft (and I don't think that I do)  but even if I did....   I think he's more a zone blocker than a man blocker.    I could be wrong on that....   but that's what I thought Alabama did...   Zone and not man...

[Gavin]

That may be true, however we all know 1 or 2 will go in the first.

Oh, and I don't think the Lions would pass on Fisher for Mingo...who would be a much better fit in a 34 IMO.

The Lions used Avril last year both standing up and with his hand on the turf/dirt, I see your point about Fisher but it could go either way in my opinion, I agree someone will likely reach for a QB and I very much hope they do which will cause 1-2 players to fall but I dont see one worth a first round pick watching these breakdowns on youtube while watching any of these draft profiles 

[Gavin]

Even if I agree with you that Jones is the best center in the draft (and I don't think that I do)  but even if I did....   I think he's more a zone blocker than a man blocker.    I could be wrong on that....   but that's what I thought Alabama did...   Zone and not man...

I read somewhere that they did Zone but then we get into can who play in what such as Warmack for example, Bama seemed to play in a Zone scheme so does that mean Warmack would be a better fit in Zone?, I agree however Jones is likely a better fit in Zone simply because he is not the best of drive blockers out there, I will consider that when I do my next mock, Of course there are those O Linemen that can play in both 

[Jason_]

Funny how everything is trending toward hybrid these days - it looks like the new normal.  The principles of the Ravens hybrid seemed new to us here a year ago, but they weren't new to the league in any way - even outside of Baltimore.  The Pats have been hybrid for years, and the Colts were just one of the last of a handful of teams to be sticking with 2 speed rush DE's and 2 bland DT's - a scheme that will not and never has worked in the NFL without a Warren Sapp caliber 3 tech.

 

I agreed with you up until the last sentence.  There are still several teams that run a base 4-3 cover 2 type defense...Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay are just a few that still run that type of defense and they don't all have a warren sapp caliber 3-tech.  our biggest problem was how extreme they went in the blandness and the fact that they ran tampa 2 coverage over 50% of the time.  I'm really glad those days are gone. lol

[ztboiler]

I agreed with you up until the last sentence.  There are still several teams that run a base 4-3 cover 2 type defense...Minnesota, Detroit, Chicago, Jacksonville, Tampa Bay are just a few that still run that type of defense and they don't all have a warren sapp caliber 3-tech.  our biggest problem was how extreme they went in the blandness and the fact that they ran tampa 2 coverage over 50% of the time.  I'm really glad those days are gone. lol

None of those teams are trying or have tried to make the 4-3 cover 2 work without premier interior linemen (Jacksonville didn't find any, but I digress), and Jacksonville will look like Seattle moving forward.