Compensation For Maclin

[Tark The Shark]

Maclin's a good pick for a trade.

 

But I think Irsay is getting us hyped for nothing really. If anything it will like the equivalent of Vontae.

[colts_mp]

Reggie Wayne is 6'0 FT, 200lb. Thats not small at all. seriously. And as good as his routes are and as many underneath passes he takes, hes actually pretty big. Most route runners are smaller and lighter.

That's the thing.  Why not get a possession receiver?  We're going to have a lineup with all receivers 6ft and under which is on the small end of the scale.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

Maclin's a good pick for a trade.

But I think Irsay is getting us hyped for nothing really. If anything it will like the equivalent of Vontae.

That was a win for us, IMO.

[dw49]

We can draft someone who's got more upside than Maclin. Someone who can replace Reggie in a couple of years. So why use a pick on this guy?

 

 

If the compensation is a NO 1 , I agree with you. If it's a 3 and something else , I disagree.

[Balzer40]

I think most fans want a trade to happen just for the heck of it and because it brings in a different player. I don't want to lose a pick for Maclin, unless it was a 6th or 7th rder. and that won't happen. I'm not sure that Brazill wouldn't be just as good as Maclin once he's given a real chance to play real minutes. If Irsay lost out on his original target, then he just needs to tell everybody and move on. Draft a WR and forget about making a trade for a marginal player.

[Tark The Shark]

That was a win for us, IMO.

 

I think it is too. But I am not even sure if this trade will happen.

 

Also people are expecting a big franchise altering WR, for which I don't think will happen.

[Luck_Is_Skilled]

I think most fans want a trade to happen just for the heck of it and because it brings in a different player. I don't want to lose a pick for Maclin, unless it was a 6th or 7th rder. and that won't happen. I'm not sure that Brazill wouldn't be just as good as Maclin once he's given a real chance to play real minutes. If Irsay lost out on his original target, then he just needs to tell everybody and move on. Draft a WR and forget about making a trade for a marginal player.

I agree that if Irsay missed on his Target, he should bite the bullet and move on but I don't think fans want a trade just because. Fans want a trade cuz Irsay set the fanbase on fire with his over excited tweets.

Now if he doesn't deliver on what we all assumed (Cruz, Fitz or someone else of that caliber) He will have a few disappointed fans, me being one of them.

[Balzer40]

I think it is too. But I am not even sure if this trade will happen.

 

Also people are expecting a big franchise altering WR, for which I don't think will happen.

 

 

 

There is no way were getting a franchise WR. This has been going on for what..6 days now and yet there isn't anybody that knows what's going on. If this was for anybody with a big name, it would have been leaked by now. I'm seriously doubting that anything happens at all, but even if it does, it's going to be for a nobody or 2 nobodies.

[Balzer40]

I agree that if Irsay missed on his Target, he should bite the bullet and move on but I don't think fans want a trade just because. Fans want a trade cuz Irsay set the fanbase on fire with his over excited tweets.

Now if he doesn't deliver on what we all assumed (Cruz, Fitz or someone else of that caliber) He will have a few disappointed fans, me being one of them.

 

 

 

I don't know, with some of the names I've seen suggested or just guessed about I.E.(Edelman, Maclin, Baldwin, Bess) aren't anything special at all and I would rather keep any pick that we have rather than take one of those guys. I think we're fine at WR anyway, but if they could get a true franchise WR I may feel different. This isn't going to be for a franchise WR though. Like I said in another post, this has been going on to long for it not to have been leaked by now if it was for a big name guy. Irsay got everybody excited over nothing probably.

[ColtsBlueFL]

What about D Jackson?    

 

No way.  Eagles can't afford to move him this year.  I think his base salary is guaranteed, so that + acceleration of bonus money and he would cost Eagles 8-9 million in dead money to move him. If it is an Eagles receiver we are targeting, it would likely be Maclin.

[Tark The Shark]

There is no way were getting a franchise WR. This has been going on for what..6 days now and yet there isn't anybody that knows what's going on. If this was for anybody with a big name, it would have been leaked by now. I'm seriously doubting that anything happens at all, but even if it does, it's going to be for a nobody or 2 nobodies.

 

Perfect Grigson strategy.

 

Grab a little known WR for a late round draft pick or one of our lesser performing players.

[John Dee]

I think Indy tried but "whiffed" ...     

 

Just could not make it happen.   And I hope they don't overpay just to make it happen.   

 

WR is thin but it will work out......  

I don't know, with some of the names I've seen suggested or just guessed about I.E.(Edelman, Maclin, Baldwin, Bess) aren't anything special at all and I would rather keep any pick that we have rather than take one of those guys. I think we're fine at WR anyway, but if they could get a true franchise WR I may feel different. This isn't going to be for a franchise WR though. Like I said in another post, this has been going on to long for it not to have been leaked by now if it was for a big name guy. Irsay got everybody excited over nothing probably.

[Balzer40]

I think Indy tried but "whiffed" ...     

 

Just could not make it happen.   And I hope they don't overpay just to make it happen.   

 

WR is thin but it will work out......  

 

 

 

I agree, I think they had something that Irsay was sure about...then it fell through.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think most fans want a trade to happen just for the heck of it and because it brings in a different player. I don't want to lose a pick for Maclin, unless it was a 6th or 7th rder. and that won't happen. I'm not sure that Brazill wouldn't be just as good as Maclin once he's given a real chance to play real minutes. If Irsay lost out on his original target, then he just needs to tell everybody and move on. Draft a WR and forget about making a trade for a marginal player.

 

What receiver are you going to draft in round 6 or 7 that is as good as J. Maclin?  I'd give up our #3.

[John Dee]

Doug Baldwin....       and i think this would be a solid add. 

Perfect Grigson strategy.

 

Grab a little known WR for a late round draft pick or one of our lesser performing players.

[sultan5]

That's the thing.  Why not get a possession receiver?  We're going to have a lineup with all receivers 6ft and under which is on the small end of the scale.

I see your point but when Luck snaps the ball he's also got options of 6'6 Fleener and 6'3 Allen. Plus we got a WR already this off-season that is 6'6. I mean its perfect. Have you seen how T.Y. at his size works the middle of the field? And he always has a Tall option TE underneath.

[John Dee]

The more I look at J Mac's stats the more I like this guy.     

 

He will be 25 this season and he has been "very productive"  ...   considering the train wreck Philly's O has been of late.

 

I may give up a one for him?     Heck if he came out in this draft he would be the top WR...     Wouldn't he?

What receiver are you going to draft in round 6 or 7 that is as good as J. Maclin?  I'd give up our #3.

[Tark The Shark]

Doug Baldwin....       and i think this would be a solid add. 

 

I would be alright with him, isn't he the former teammate of Luck at Stanford?

[Balzer40]

What receiver are you going to draft in round 6 or 7 that is as good as J. Maclin?  I'd give up our #3.

 

 

I'm talking about drafting one in the 1st rd.. We could probably get better talent than what Maclin is. Since we only have 5 picks this yr. I'm not real keen on giving any of them up for a guy like Maclin. Sorry, but I just don't think he's all that good. Like somebody else already pointed out, he's nothing more than a possession receiver that don't get any yds. after catch. 

[Balzer40]

Guy's I would rather draft than trading for Maclin...

 

1st rd. - Cordarrelle Patterson, DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen

 

3rd or 4th rd. - Aaron Dobson, DaRick Rodgers, Ryan Swope.

 

6th rd. - Cobi Hamilton, Aaron Mallette, Cary Fuller.

 

We could without doubt get one of these guys at some point in the draft and IMO would be better than trading a pick and paying a big contract to Maclin.

[Narcosys]

I see your point but when Luck snaps the ball he's also got options of 6'6 Fleener and 6'3 Allen. Plus we got a WR already this off-season that is 6'6. I mean its perfect. Have you seen how T.Y. at his size works the middle of the field? And he always has a Tall option TE underneath.

Who is this 6'6 receiver you speak of?

[dw49]

Guy's I would rather draft than trading for Maclin...

 

1st rd. - Cordarrelle Patterson, DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen

 

3rd or 4th rd. - Aaron Dobson, DaRick Rodgers, Ryan Swope.

 

6th rd. - Cobi Hamilton, Aaron Mallette, Cary Fuller.

 

We could without doubt get one of these guys at some point in the draft and IMO would be better than trading a pick and paying a big contract to Maclin.

 

 

But maybe we can draft a good Cb or pass rusher at 1.24 and still do the deal for Maclin. I think we need to see the compensation before making a judgement. However , it sounds like Indy is pushing too hard and that "smells" like an overpay.

[Superman]

No way.  Eagles can't afford to move him this year.  I think his base salary is guaranteed, so that + acceleration of bonus money and he would cost Eagles 8-9 million in dead money to move him. If it is an Eagles receiver we are targeting, it would likely be Maclin.

 

The base salary doesn't get accelerated. Just the signing bonus for future years, which is a total of $8m. Still prohibitive.

[Balzer40]

But maybe we can draft a good Cb or pass rusher at 1.24 and still do the deal for Maclin. I think we need to see the compensation before making a judgement. However , it sounds like Indy is pushing too hard and that "smells" like an overpay.

 

 

 

When we signed Toler, 1st rd. CB went out the window IMO. No team is going to pay a nickle corner 5 mil. per season and unless they are entertaining the idea of letting Davis walk after the season(I really hope not), then CB is no longer an option. Toler is a really good CB and press coverage is his strength. As far as the WR, I just think we'll be ok drafting one instead of buying a marginal WR through a trade. JMO of course!

[coltsfanatic24]

 I would give up a 4th for Macklin he has the potential to be a great #2 WR.

[USAFHoosier]

3rd or 4th for Maclin then take Hunter with first pick.  Say hello to a highly prolific offense.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Guy's I would rather draft than trading for Maclin...

 

1st rd. - Cordarrelle Patterson, DeAndre Hopkins, Keenan Allen

 

3rd or 4th rd. - Aaron Dobson, DaRick Rodgers, Ryan Swope.

 

6th rd. - Cobi Hamilton, Aaron Mallette, Cary Fuller.

 

We could without doubt get one of these guys at some point in the draft and IMO would be better than trading a pick and paying a big contract to Maclin.

 

If you hit gold, that could work but you have only one pick to get it right.  if your choice in any of the first 3 bust, then you cost us dearly.  If any in round 3 bust, then it's a setback there too. Maclin was All-America and a low round 1 draft talent that dropped and went #19 overall in round 1.  He, along with  Hakeem Nicks, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, and Isaac Bruce are the only players to have 250 catches, 3500 yards & 25 TDs before their 25th birthday. Just a couple years ago he and Nicks tied for league lead in red zone TD's at 7.  He's a proven commodity that is worth a number 3 to me, and pay commiserate  for his type of numbers.  I'd rather use #24 on D-  S, or pass rush OLB/DE.   and my #3 for Maclin, if we could swing it and not overpay. Then BPA from there with the little we have left. Especially if it is O-line depth.

[Balzer40]

3rd or 4th for Maclin then take Hunter with first pick.  Say hello to a highly prolific offense.

 

 

 No way we trade a mid rd. pick on a WR and then use a 1st rd. pick on one IMO.

[Balzer40]

If you hit gold, that could work but you have only one pick to get it right.  if your choice in any of the first 3 bust, then you cost us dearly.  If any in round 3 bust, then it's a setback there too. Maclin was All-America and a low round 1 draft talent that dropped and went #19 overall in round 1.  He, along with  Hakeem Nicks, Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, and Isaac Bruce are the only players to have 250 catches, 3500 yards & 25 TDs before their 25th birthday. Just a couple years ago he and Nicks tied for league lead in red zone TD's at 7.  He's a proven commodity that is worth a number 3 to me, and pay commiserate  for his type of numbers.  I'd rather use #24 on D-  S, or pass rush OLB/DE.   and my #3 for Maclin, if we could swing it and not overpay. Then BPA from there with the little we have left. Especially if it is O-line depth.

 

 

 

Any draft pick is always a gamble. That is when you have to have faith in your scouts and make the best pick possible. Listen, I understand that Maclin has talent, but IMO he doesn't warrant trading a pick when we only have 5 to begin with. I don't think our WR corps. are in trouble if we don't add anybody else like many seem to think.

[ColtsBlueFL]

The base salary doesn't get accelerated. Just the signing bonus for future years, which is a total of $8m. Still prohibitive.

 

Correct, but of the base salary, 4 million is fully guaranteed for 2013 and 2,75 million guaranteed for injury.  that would transfer and Indy would HAVE to honor that as I doubt D Jax would relinquish that in a re-negotiation.  And his base jumps to 10.25 million in 2014, but only 250k is guaranteed. That would be time to move him if they could/would.

 

now I know 8 million of the 10 mil signing bonus accelerates,  but what about his 250,000 K per year workout bonus he is to receive?  Does that count or no?  That would add another 1 million which is why I put 8-9 mil in my post.  Not sure about the 250k / yr workout bonus as a cap hit.

[Warhorse]

I think most fans want a trade to happen just for the heck of it and because it brings in a different player. I don't want to lose a pick for Maclin, unless it was a 6th or 7th rder. and that won't happen. I'm not sure that Brazill wouldn't be just as good as Maclin once he's given a real chance to play real minutes. If Irsay lost out on his original target, then he just needs to tell everybody and move on. Draft a WR and forget about making a trade for a marginal player.

There would be a line of teams to trade for him if he was available for a third or fourth.

[Superman]

Correct, but of the base salary, 4 million is fully guaranteed for 2013 and 2,75 million guaranteed for injury.  that would transfer and Indy would HAVE to honor that as I doubt D Jax would relinquish that in a re-negotiation.  And his base jumps to 10.25 million in 2014, but only 250k is guaranteed. That would be time to move him if they could/would.

 

now I know 8 million of the 10 mil signing bonus accelerates,  but what about his 250,000 K per year workout bonus he is to receive?  Does that count or no?  That would add another 1 million which is why I put 8-9 mil in my post.  Not sure about the 250k / yr workout bonus as a cap hit.

 

All of this is the reason teams don't often trade players with multiple years remaining on their contracts. It gets hairy, and it's often prohibitive for the team giving the player up.

 

The base salaries, guaranteed or not, count on the cap of the team receiving the player. Those can technically be renegotiated, but it's unlikely a player would relinquish guarantees for future years without receiving bonus up front.

 

The only bonus money that accelerates for the team trading the player away is signing bonus. Workout bonuses, option bonuses and roster bonuses to be paid in the future all count on the cap for the team receiving the player. And they can all be renegotiated. Basically, any money that has not been paid yet counts against the team receiving the player.

[Gavin]

What receiver are you going to draft in round 6 or 7 that is as good as J. Maclin?  I'd give up our #3.

I think your equating draft status with how good he is subconciously but a wr's draft status does not always equal a star wr. Wes Welker went undrafted and he turned out to be pretty good (a huge part of that is Brady though), if ya have a good or great QB then he can make your wr's better then what they really are

[Dustin]

I think your equating draft status with how good he is subconciously but a wr's draft status does not always equal a good wr, Wes Welker went undrafted and he turned out to be pretty good (a huge part of that is Brady though), if ya have a good or great QB then he can make your wr's better then what they really are

 

If you have a mediocre receiver, the QB can make them good. If you have a good receiver, the QB could make him great. Maclin is a good receiver. With Luck he'd be a 80-100 catch, 1,000 yards 10 TD guy.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Any draft pick is always a gamble. That is when you have to have faith in your scouts and make the best pick possible. Listen, I understand that Maclin has talent, but IMO he doesn't warrant trading a pick when we only have 5 to begin with. I don't think our WR corps. are in trouble if we don't add anybody else like many seem to think.

 

So you are saying we must not have as much faith in the scouts as you do  [ or at least in your own scouting, ;)  ]  as they are / were actively looking to add a WR?  I f I trusted Brazil or Whalen to produce effectively more, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  Neither have shown me enough yet to drop ideas of an acquisition of a proven WR though.

[Balzer40]

There would be a line of teams to trade for him if he was available for a third or fourth.

 

 

 

That may be true, but a lot of teams don't have the depth we already have at WR either. I know a lot of people think were thin at WR, but IMO we aren't. I like who we have and If we had 3 or more picks this yr., and especially if we had a 2nd rder. this season, then It wouldn't bother me to trade for Maclin. It's just my opinion(and not that it matters), but with only 5 picks, to trade away a mid rder. isn't a wise trade for him. In other words, we would use our 1st pick and then not have another one till the late 4th rd. and no assets really to trade back up. IMO were not in the position to be trading away our future.

[Gavin]

If you have a mediocre receiver, the QB can make them good. If you have a good receiver, the QB could make him great. Maclin is a good receiver. With Luck he'd be a 80-100 catch, 1,000 yards 10 TD guy.

Probably more then that, he came within 36 yards of 1000 with Vick in 2010 and had 10 td's but not worth our 24. Luck will get to the point where he can turn some low round or undrafted wr into the next Wes Welker in my opinion

[Dustin]

Probably more then that, he came within 36 yards of 1000 with Vick in 2010 and had 10 td's but not worth our 24. Luck will get to the point where he can turn some low round or undrafted wr into the next Wes Welker

 

I seriously doubt that if we trade for him, it'd be for anything more than our 3rd. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

I seriously doubt that if we trade for him, it'd be for anything more than our 3rd. 

 

Agreed, and maybe a conditional next year.

[Balzer40]

So you are saying we must not have as much faith in the scouts as you do  [ or at least in your own scouting, ;)  ]  as they are / were actively looking to add a WR?  I f I trusted Brazil or Whalen to produce effectively more, I'd be inclined to agree with you.  Neither have shown me enough yet to drop ideas of an acquisition of a proven WR though.

 

 

No, I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying that Grigson trusts the scouts to give him the best idea of who to draft and where to draft them. What we as fans think of Brazill, Whalen, or any other guy on the roster don't mean anything. It's what the coaches and Grigson thinks of them. I always see statements like these on this forum.."If I had more trust in                then I would feel better". Well it don't matter if we as fans have trust in so and so or not, it only matters what the decision makers think of them. Other than Reggie and Hilton, none of our guys have had much of an opportunity to prove anything and every player has to start somewhere before we ever know if they are good or not. This is where the trust in the scouting dept. comes in.