Should Indy sign Dumervil? [Merge]

[Dark Superman]

We should make a run at him.

We could get him for a fair salary since the market for pass rushers have been low.

He would be an immediate impact n this defense.. I love his style of play, he's an impact player who gets to the opposing quarterback..

Thoughts?

[Dustin]

I don't think there's enough cap space left.

[Albaby]

How old is he?

[Fx Stryker]

If Doom doesn't take a pay cut then there is no way we can get him. He'll be wanting a big contract, and we only have like $10M left.

[seeblu]

This Elvis doesn't play guitar and doesn't fit the 3-4 D anymore than Dwight did.

[MAC]

This Elvis doesn't play guitar and doesn't fit the 3-4 D anymore than Dwight did.

Actually he excelled in the 3-4. That's what earned him the big contract, but he hasn't been playing up to it in the 4-3. Thus the possibility that he'll be released.

[Dustin]

This Elvis doesn't play guitar and doesn't fit the 3-4 D anymore than Dwight did.

 

He put up 17 sacks and was selected as an All-pro when he played 3-4 OLB.

[Fx Stryker]

Dumervil has until 1:59pm tomorrow to take the pay cut, or he is cut.

 

Maybe Peyton will buy him a first aid kit.

[RomanianColtsFan]

He may ask for some money but I think Dumervile would be good on this defense. He is a little small but still young and fast. I also remember him having a fabulous year sack wise when he played in the 3-4 front. I also remember people doubting that he could play in 3-4 and he proved them wrong. Shanahan kept changing the coordinators like a mad man to save his job when he was in Denver.

[TKnight24]

If he takes a $5-$7 million contract sure. Can never have too many pass rushers

[Malakai432]

Is it even possible with the amt of cap room we have left? Almost seems like it would've been overkill.

[wig]

He would be a 3rd down guy at best on the team.

[Y2Jared]

If he takes a $5-$7 million contract sure. Can never have too many pass rushers

 

Id take a Dumervil rotation with Mathis or Walden any day. Jerry Hughes can be cut. Id also see if we could pick him up on a discount as we are well into free agency.. 

[Dustin]

He would be a 3rd down guy at best on the team.

 

Why?

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

If he's cut doesn't he also egt paid by the Broncos a decent sum of money like Nmadi and the eagles?

[smittywerb]

If he was cut before we made all of our signings then yeah, but I'm pretty sure we're at our spending limit before the draft. I mean, I know we could sign him but I'm pretty sure a team will be able to pay more than what we will offer.

Signing dumervil to rotate or play opposite mathis is like Mathis and freeney playing together again.

[wig]

Why?

Because I don't see him passing Mathis and don't think he fits the other OLB spot well.

[CS Colts Fan]

he wants the Broncos to give him his 12 mil, but he has said they can do it in bonus or other ways to avoid hitting the cap..

Elway is being Elway and not wanting to honor the contract they signed and Dum has went out of his way to give more than one option for the Broncos to work on his pay and make it cap friendly most of the people I have talk to out here out not happy with this and the feel he will be gone.. They are Not happy !!

I would love for us to grab him, but that will take Creative accounting...

FYI ... the Broncos will be in Indy this year..

[Superman]

If he's cut doesn't he also egt paid by the Broncos a decent sum of money like Nmadi and the eagles?

I don't believe Dumervil has any guaranteed salary in his contract moving forward.

Nnamdi had $4m guaranteed salary in 2013. And with no offset, which means he collects the $4m from the Eagles in addition to whatever his new team is going to pay him.

[MAC]

h

Elway is being Elway and not wanting to honor the contract they signed and Dum has went out of his way to give more than one option for the Broncos to work on his pay and make it cap friendly most of the people I have talk to out here out not happy with this and the feel he will be gone.. They are Not happy !!

I was angry at Elway for years because of what he did to the Colts. After he retired that faded to simply not caring. Now that I care about the Broncos, I amazingly find that I like the guy. He isn't the jerk that he was when he was a kid, and your suggestion that he is doing something unethical (and that such behavior is typical for him) makes no sense. (And that's not even factoring in the relevant detail that Elway wasn't the one who signed him to the contract in the first place. He didn't change his mind, he's just cleaning up another of the previous knuckleheads mistakes.)

 

What you are actually seeing is a GM being a GM. NFL contracts are designed from the get-go to not be honored - thus the importance to the players of the guaranteed portion. The rest - your implications aside - is VERY often simply not - well - guaranteed. I understand completely what they are doing with Dumervil, and far from being offended, I'm all for it. Do you think that the Colts would have kept Freeney last year if they had had a chance to improve the team by dropping him? The fact is that Dumervil is being significantly overpaid,  and it's highly probable that his agent hasn't been getting wind of any offers which would be better than the reduced amount offered by the Broncos. Which tells me that in contrast to your suggestions, they are actually being kind enough to give him a home-town boost, and that he may well remain a Bronco. That would make Elway a good GM, not a bad person. And if they have to let him walk, than I'd respect them for making an incredibly tough call.

[southwest1]

I actually hope that Elvis is dumb enough to leave the building. I'd love to see Peyton Manning reunited with Dwight Freeney. "Thank you. Thank you very much." [Elvis Presley joke] 

 

[southwest1]

Maybe Freeney can exchange his  blue suede [horseshoes] shoes for some Mile High shoes I don't know...It sounds A Okay to me anyway...

 

 

Did I carry the Elvis Presley joke a bit too far? Yeah probably. Still mildly funny though IMO...

[southwest1]

The problem is that too many players in the NFL view love, respect, & organizational appreciation through an enormous paycheck as opposed to taking less money toward a team Championship...Tender comes in monetary form as well as collective admiration for one's team mates, staff, & coaches. Right Elvis? 

 

http://youtu.be/76We6yBnIKE

 

Okay, Okay. I'll stop this nonsense & go get a peanut butter & banana sandwich now. 

[southwest1]

I have idea what is going to happen tomorrow regarding Elvis. Either he stays in Denver or they pick up Dwight. Just be quick about your decision Mr. Dumerville & no stonewall, delay tactics please. Take a stroll around Graceland on your own time okay. Thanks. 

 

http://www.elvis.com/graceland/

 

No, this isn't what I meant when I said that records will get broken in Denver this year Elvis...

 

[theanarchist]

Actually he excelled in the 3-4. That's what earned him the big contract, but he hasn't been playing up to it in the 4-3. Thus the possibility that he'll be released.

HMMM. 11 sacks last year. Thats pretty good. 64 sacks in like 6 seasons. That's nothing to sneeze at. I think Dumervil is a great player. I think Elway is an * for speaking out publicly that 12 mil is "out of whack". Certainly if I were the player I would be insulted. I would have no probelm leaving the ball in their court because I know I'll go to someone who needs a pass rusher and probably get a nice signing bonus, maybe not 12 mil but I bet I would get 8 and a 4 or 5 year deal. When you are paying your QB 17 mil per year it makes things like this tough to swallow. Cut him, maybe we can make a run at him. Im all for it.

[theanarchist]

I was angry at Elway for years because of what he did to the Colts. After he retired that faded to simply not caring. Now that I care about the Broncos, I amazingly find that I like the guy. He isn't the jerk that he was when he was a kid, and your suggestion that he is doing something unethical (and that such behavior is typical for him) makes no sense. (And that's not even factoring in the relevant detail that Elway wasn't the one who signed him to the contract in the first place. He didn't change his mind, he's just cleaning up another of the previous knuckleheads mistakes.)

 

What you are actually seeing is a GM being a GM. NFL contracts are designed from the get-go to not be honored - thus the importance to the players of the guaranteed portion. The rest - your implications aside - is VERY often simply not - well - guaranteed. I understand completely what they are doing with Dumervil, and far from being offended, I'm all for it. Do you think that the Colts would have kept Freeney last year if they had had a chance to improve the team by dropping him? The fact is that Dumervil is being significantly overpaid,  and it's highly probable that his agent hasn't been getting wind of any offers which would be better than the reduced amount offered by the Broncos. Which tells me that in contrast to your suggestions, they are actually being kind enough to give him a home-town boost, and that he may well remain a Bronco. That would make Elway a good GM, not a bad person. And if they have to let him walk, than I'd respect them for making an incredibly tough call.

Well I don't think i buy your "significantly overpaid" statement. Dumervil has had 17, 9.5 and 11 sack over the last 3 seasons. Before that he had 21 in his first two seasons. I'm not going to do the research but its pretty obvious to me that those numbers have to be in the upper eschelon of pass rushers in the NFL. Oh and by the way, when he had his 17 sack season, it was in the 3-4 as a rush LB.

 

Here's what it comes down to with Denver. They threw the kitchen sink at Manning. Now, Manning is getting his dollar. But, a player like Dumervil, who signed his contract several years ago is going to have to pay for it. As I said in a previous post, if I were him I would have no problem letting this ride. He'll get paid either by Denver or some other team who wants a damn good pass rusher.

[Valpo2004]

he wants the Broncos to give him his 12 mil, but he has said they can do it in bonus or other ways to avoid hitting the cap..

Elway is being Elway and not wanting to honor the contract they signed and Dum has went out of his way to give more than one option for the Broncos to work on his pay and make it cap friendly most of the people I have talk to out here out not happy with this and the feel he will be gone.. They are Not happy !!

I would love for us to grab him, but that will take Creative accounting...

FYI ... the Broncos will be in Indy this year..

 

How is he not honoring the contract?  He can't not honor the contract.  He's telling Elvis that he either re-structures the deal or they cut him.  The contract allows them to cut him when they want.  They just have to pay him all the guaranteed money left that hasn't already been paid. 

 

But yeah, he'd cost too much most likely.  I really wish we had another pass rusher but the money has already been spent and the only way we could realistically get him was if we started cutting some guys.  

 

And there arn't many guys that we have that are both not critical to the team and don't have a ton of guaranteed money that would prevent it from saving us any cap space anyways.

 

The only guy I can think of is Donald Brown and that would only save us 1.7 million of cap space.  But guys like Hughes and Mathis can't be cut because they have too much dead money still on their contracts. 

[throwing BBZ]

We should make a run at him.

We could get him for a fair salary since the market for pass rushers have been low.

He would be an immediate impact n this defense.. I love his style of play, he's an impact player who gets to the opposing quarterback..

Thoughts?

 

 Ya, we could rotate him and Mathis.

[bayone]

If he's cut doesn't he also egt paid by the Broncos a decent sum of money like Nmadi and the eagles?

 

not if cut before 159 PM Mountain time I think as only quarantted money ios this years 12 milliuon, rest of contract npot quaranteed i think , after 159 PM  he gets 12 million and is on team, Doom has already come down from that but thinks he is worth more money than Kruger , top paid DE so far & Broncos may want a million less a year than kruger, going DE rate has been 6.5 to 8 million a year this freee agency

[Valpo2004]

To answer the question Elivs Dumervil has 4.869 million left in guaranteed money on his contract.

 

Cutting him saves the Bronco's 8.754 million against the cap.  

 

There is actually not a lot of guaranteed money left on this contract considering the size of the contract. 

 

What I'm trying to figure out is where they come up with the 43.156 million guaranteed that it says at the bottom.  If there is only 4.869 million left on it or something then they must have guaranteed a significant portion of the base of the contract in the first couple of years.  

 

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-broncos/elvis-dumervil/

 

I know they did a similar thing with Manning's contract.  

[Fx Stryker]

The reason Elway wants to cut Doom's contract is because it is so inflated compared to the market. Doom is making $12M a year while others are making $5-7M. He is making Jared Allen/Julius Peppers/Tamba Hali money.

 

He isn't worht that much to Denver, and he probably won't even sniff that much if he hit's free agency.

[Valpo2004]

The reason Elway wants to cut Doom's contract is because it is so inflated compared to the market. Doom is making $12M a year while others are making $5-7M. He is making Jared Allen/Julius Peppers/Tamba Hali money.

 

He isn't worht that much to Denver, and he probably won't even sniff that much if he hit's free agency.

 

And his value to them has really gone down since they got Von Miller.  

[sultan5]

Elvis would be awesome, but i dont think we have the cash to spend on him after Landry and Francois, do we?

[corgi]

Elvis would be awesome, but i dont think we have the cash to spend on him after Landry and Francois, do we?

I don't think anyone can figure out exactly what our cap situation is right now.

[bayone]

The reason Elway wants to cut Doom's contract is because it is so inflated compared to the market. Doom is making $12M a year while others are making $5-7M. He is making Jared Allen/Julius Peppers/Tamba Hali money.

 

He isn't worht that much to Denver, and he probably won't even sniff that much if he hit's free agency.

 

FX Yes Thats the  IS MAIN REASON as Elway says below, its out of whack with todays market value

 

And his value to them has really gone down since they got Von Miller.  

 

THat is a tertiary concern, Denver wants him belive me, but it is true that Von Miller is the prime rusher , but u want the tandem, makes things more effective just like if can add an inside pressure

--------------

Question is: Would you take a 35 percent pay cut to keep a job you loved? So should Dumervil? It appears to be his only choice, if he wants to remain in Denver.

 

The Broncos have determined it would be foolhardy to pay Dumervil $12 million per year, a salary the team obviously thinks is extravagant.

 

"It's not all about dollars. But when it's way out of whack? Then it's so out of whack that you've got to say: That (salary) can't be it. Especially when you look at the market and what's out there now,"

 

Elway told me. "It's so far out of whack. Hopefully, he realizes that."

 

In the NFL, a soft heart can't get in the way of a tough negotiating stance

 

Read more:Kiszla: Elvis Dumervil's clock is ticking, but Broncos aren't budging - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_22793794/kiszla-elvis-dumervils-clock-is-ticking-broncos#ixzz2NdAxTGHR

 

[theanarchist]

FX Yes Thats the  IS MAIN REASON as Elway says below, its out of whack with todays market value

 

 

THat is a tertiary concern, Denver wants him belive me, but it is true that Von Miller is the prime rusher , but u want the tandem, makes things more effective just like if can add an inside pressure

--------------

Question is: Would you take a 35 percent pay cut to keep a job you loved? So should Dumervil? It appears to be his only choice, if he wants to remain in Denver.

 

The Broncos have determined it would be foolhardy to pay Dumervil $12 million per year, a salary the team obviously thinks is extravagant.

 

"It's not all about dollars. But when it's way out of whack? Then it's so out of whack that you've got to say: That (salary) can't be it. Especially when you look at the market and what's out there now,"

 

Elway told me. "It's so far out of whack. Hopefully, he realizes that."

 

In the NFL, a soft heart can't get in the way of a tough negotiating stance

 

Read more:Kiszla: Elvis Dumervil's clock is ticking, but Broncos aren't budging - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_22793794/kiszla-elvis-dumervils-clock-is-ticking-broncos#ixzz2NdAxTGHR

 

In my opinion Denver is trying to pull a fast one with Dumervil. 12 mil is a lot I'll admit that. What was Freeney's cap # for us last year? 15 mil? Anyhow, Dumervil is far and away a better pass rusher than any other player who was on the  market Tuesday. The market may have been set by Kruger but Dumervil is a better player than Kruger and I don't even think it's a contest. Will Dumervil get 12 mil from another team if he's cut? I don't know but I'd be willing to bet that he would have been THE most sought after free agent pass rusher had this happened before Tuesday. Again, John Elway playing hardball knowing that if he waits to cut him til today he'll have a better chance of getting what he wants which is Dumvervil to stay and take less pay. It's good tactic if you're Elway, it's a rotten tactic if you have any sort of compassion for a guy who signed a contract and is still being a productive player.

 

Oh by the way, Hali had 9 sacks last year, Allen had 12 and Dumervil had 11. Dumervil has more total sacks since coming into the league than Hali

[MAC]

HMMM. 11 sacks last year. Thats pretty good. 64 sacks in like 6 seasons. That's nothing to sneeze at. I think Dumervil is a great player. I think Elway is an * for speaking out publicly that 12 mil is "out of whack". Certainly if I were the player I would be insulted. I would have no probelm leaving the ball in their court because I know I'll go to someone who needs a pass rusher and probably get a nice signing bonus, maybe not 12 mil but I bet I would get 8 and a 4 or 5 year deal. When you are paying your QB 17 mil per year it makes things like this tough to swallow. Cut him, maybe we can make a run at him. Im all for it.

 

Well I don't think i buy your "significantly overpaid" statement. Dumervil has had 17, 9.5 and 11 sack over the last 3 seasons. Before that he had 21 in his first two seasons. I'm not going to do the research but its pretty obvious to me that those numbers have to be in the upper eschelon of pass rushers in the NFL. Oh and by the way, when he had his 17 sack season, it was in the 3-4 as a rush LB.

 

Here's what it comes down to with Denver. They threw the kitchen sink at Manning. Now, Manning is getting his dollar. But, a player like Dumervil, who signed his contract several years ago is going to have to pay for it. As I said in a previous post, if I were him I would have no problem letting this ride. He'll get paid either by Denver or some other team who wants a darn good pass rusher.

I'm well aware of the fact that his peak sack year was as an OLB - I stated as much in first post that you responded to. That is in fact all the more reason why he isn't worth the money to the Broncos. I don't want them to pay him that. But if he is released, I don't want the Colts paying him that either. Do you? If he was on the market would you be enthused about the Colts signing him for $12 million per year? It's a ridiculous contract completely the fault of the equally ridiculous Josh McDaniels. You know, the guy who dumped Cutler and traded for the opportunity to grab a tight end to put in his place - setting the franchise backs years in the process and creating a public relations nightmare that still won't quit. It's a LOUSY contract, the signings of other DE's so far suggest that he can't come remotely close to it on the open market. Isn't that one way of defining "overpaid"? What the Broncos are doing makes perfect sense. And as I already indicated the chances are that he'll get at least the amount that you detailed by staying home. Why disrupt your family and have to learn a new system for the same contract? To "get back" at Elway? Come on, it's a business, and the team (your comments aside) is being up front and civil with him. He was getting paid more the past two years than Freeney ever came close to (aside from his final year payout - which was one of those back loaded anomalies that neither side ever intended to get paid). Is he half the DE that Freeney was in his prime? One was the lynchpin of his defense, and discussions centered on whether he might reach the HOF. The other is at best the third most important player on his own defense, and people are debating whether to give him his unconditional release. I couldn't care less about Elways public comments, those are for the ears of those in the public who don't quite get it. Dumervil already knows that he's getting overpaid - he just doesn't want to bite the bullet.

 

The consistent undercurrent in your posts is that you are one of those who resents Manning for some bizarre reason. Why any Colt fan would ever feel that way utterly boggles the mind, but to each his own. But how about removing the word "Manning" and substituting "franchise QB". Brady, Brees, Luck, Rodgers, Eli (heck, even Flacco) - a franchise QB past after his rookie contract is going to get a salary in the range that you mention - period. It's what they are worth to the teams. You think that the players are sharing your resentment? They ALL want to ride that franchise QB to the promised land. Vasquez at his press conference spoke of his delight at the opportunity to work "FOR" Manning. Why do you think that free agents are flocking to Denver in the first place. Here's a hint, it's not because of Dumervil.

[Valpo2004]

FX Yes Thats the  IS MAIN REASON as Elway says below, its out of whack with todays market value

 

 

THat is a tertiary concern, Denver wants him belive me, but it is true that Von Miller is the prime rusher , but u want the tandem, makes things more effective just like if can add an inside pressure

--------------

Question is: Would you take a 35 percent pay cut to keep a job you loved? So should Dumervil? It appears to be his only choice, if he wants to remain in Denver.

 

The Broncos have determined it would be foolhardy to pay Dumervil $12 million per year, a salary the team obviously thinks is extravagant.

 

"It's not all about dollars. But when it's way out of whack? Then it's so out of whack that you've got to say: That (salary) can't be it. Especially when you look at the market and what's out there now,"

 

Elway told me. "It's so far out of whack. Hopefully, he realizes that."

 

In the NFL, a soft heart can't get in the way of a tough negotiating stance

 

Read more:Kiszla: Elvis Dumervil's clock is ticking, but Broncos aren't budging - The Denver Posthttp://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_22793794/kiszla-elvis-dumervils-clock-is-ticking-broncos#ixzz2NdAxTGHR

 

 

On the pay cut.   

 

Depends on how much money I was making.  If I took the pay cut would I still be able to take care of my family in a fairly good manner?

 

See in his situation one would hope that a 35% pay cut would affect him far less then it would affect me.  

 

I think you also have to consider what is the guy going to command if he goes to free agency?  Is there going to be a team there to pay an aging pass rusher 12 million dollars?

[theanarchist]

I'm well aware of the fact that his peak sack year was as an OLB - I stated as much in first post that you responded to. That is in fact all the more reason why he isn't worth the money to the Broncos. I don't want them to pay him that. But if he is released, I don't want the Colts paying him that either. Do you? If he was on the market would you be enthused about the Colts signing him for $12 million per year? It's a ridiculous contract completely the fault of the equally ridiculous Josh McDaniels. You know, the guy who dumped Cutler and traded for the opportunity to grab a tight end to put in his place - setting the franchise backs years in the process and creating a public relations nightmare that still won't quit. It's a LOUSY contract, the signings of other DE's so far suggest that he can't come remotely close to it on the open market. Isn't that one way of defining "overpaid"? What the Broncos are doing makes perfect sense. And as I already indicated the chances are that he'll get at least the amount that you detailed by staying home. Why disrupt your family and have to learn a new system for the same contract? To "get back" at Elway? Come on, it's a business, and the team (your comments aside) is being up front and civil with him. He was getting paid more the past two years than Freeney ever came close to (aside from his final year payout - which was one of those back loaded anomalies that neither side ever intended to get paid). Is he half the DE that Freeney was in his prime? One was the lynchpin of his defense, and discussions centered on whether he might reach the HOF. The other is at best the third most important player on his own defense, and people are debating whether to give him his unconditional release. I couldn't care less about Elways public comments, those are for the ears of those in the public who don't quite get it. Dumervil already knows that he's getting overpaid - he just doesn't want to bite the bullet.

 

The consistent undercurrent in your posts is that you are one of those who resents Manning for some bizarre reason. Why any Colt fan would ever feel that way utterly boggles the mind, but to each his own. But how about removing the word "Manning" and substituting "franchise QB". Brady, Brees, Luck, Rodgers, Eli (heck, even Flacco) - a franchise QB past after his rookie contract is going to get a salary in the range that you mention - period. It's what they are worth to the teams. You think that the players are sharing your resentment? They ALL want to ride that franchise QB to the promised land. Vasquez at his press conference spoke of his delight at the opportunity to work "FOR" Manning. Why do you think that free agents are flocking to Denver in the first place. Here's a hint, it's not because of Dumervil.

First of all, Freeney was the highest paid DE in 2009 and made more that year that Dumervil is set to make this year.

 

Second. Had the Broncos gone ahead and released Dumervil before Tuesday I firmly believe he would have set the market and garnered more than what Kruger and Avril got combined. This was a calculated move by Elway to get what he wanted which was to keep Dumervil and at the same time FORCE Dumvervil to take less money.

 

Third. Make of what  you want about my comments regarding Manning. It isn't meant to be insult to him. The fact is, in my opinion, Elway has spent lots and lots of money and he calculated this move with Dumervil knowing that he had the upper hand. In my opinion that sucks. You can disagree with that I have no problem with it.

 

As far as how much i would have given for Dumvervil. Hard to say. I do know this though, had he been available Tuesday I would sure have liked to have had him and I would have been willing to give him quite a bit of money. He has almost double the sack total as Avril and Kruger isn't even in the same ballpark numbers wise,

[bayone]

In my opinion Denver is trying to pull a fast one with Dumervil. 12 mil is a lot I'll admit that. What was Freeney's cap # for us last year? 15 mil? Anyhow, Dumervil is far and away a better pass rusher than any other player who was on the  market Tuesday. The market may have been set by Kruger but Dumervil is a better player than Kruger and I don't even think it's a contest. Will Dumervil get 12 mil from another team if he's cut? I don't know but I'd be willing to bet that he would have been THE most sought after free agent pass rusher had this happened before Tuesday. Again, John Elway playing hardball knowing that if he waits to cut him til today he'll have a better chance of getting what he wants which is Dumvervil to stay and take less pay. It's good tactic if you're Elway, it's a rotten tactic if you have any sort of compassion for a guy who signed a contract and is still being a productive player.

 

Oh by the way, Hali had 9 sacks last year, Allen had 12 and Dumervil had 11. Dumervil has more total sacks since coming into the league than Hali

 

I think he should be signed with some reduction but should still get more than others and not merely the demand of todays market realities, He means alot to the team and would be a loss of defensive balance