So We're Now Switching To A Power Running West Coast Offense

[crestmount]

regardless of the system we go for we still need to address the OL deficiencies

[BOTT]

I feel sick. We don't have the personnel for the offense everyone is expecting. I REALLY hope we run some sort of hybrid between the Arians offense and the WCO.

Oh god, here it comes again

[SilentHill]

Oh god, here it comes again

 

 

 

Ignorace is bliss.

[BOTT]

Wow, your a winner.

Well, I do know the difference between your and you're

[SilentHill]

Well, I do know the difference between your and you're

 

You may, but you still don't know that a period goes at the end of a sentence. Go Figure.

[ColtJ82]

Why does our WCO have to be like Stanford's, what is there to say it wont be like Mike McCarthy's Packers?

 

 A QB like Rodgers that can throw well on the run can definitely run a similar version with similar concepts. Make our O-line improved, and we will have elements of running that Mike McCarthy does not have and passing similar to the Packers.

 

I would think it would be a somewhat adapted version. Most WCO teams are some modified version of what the Niners ran under Walsh. Philadelphia's offense is a good example of a modified version. TY would be our Desean Jackson in that version. I would think Pep would build it around the talent on the team. We have significantly more speed to work with than Stanford. 

[BOTT]

You may, but you still don't know that a period goes at the end of a sentence. Go Figure.

Omg...i didn't hit the period key. I feel sick

[SilentHill]

Omg...i didn't hit the period key. I feel sick

 

It's OK I forgive you. Don't feel bad. It will get better with practice.

[chad72]

As long as points per game (18th in the league) gets on par with our yardage per game (10th), I will take whatever gets us there. I would even swap our points per game with our yardage per game ranking.

[MSColtsFan]

I feel sick. We don't have the personnel for the offense everyone is expecting. I REALLY hope we run some sort of hybrid between the Arians offense and the WCO.

 

Let's wait for the presser and hear what management says about philosophies, approaches, personnel, all of that.  I was the * who linked Stanford stats, even looked up Howard University stats.  For all of those, there is also the truth that Hamilton is a QB guy, more time spent in the pros as a QB coach.  And he, like all of us, know that as constructed the Colts aren't the 49ers.  They aren't even Stanford in terms of personnel.  At the core I think he is more Roman than Moore, but that doesn't mean he will allow an offense to be run which can't function based on personnel.  Will he want a smashmouth, physical, stop our run team?  Maybe.  I think so.  But that doesn't exclude Luck, passing, being explosive.  Luck was all those things at Stanford while with Hamilton. 

 

I am concerned about the hire, but that is based on associations through history, and frankly, I'm not a fan of that type of football.  We spent a long time - since 1998 - watching a QB dominated offense.  Yet most of us also scream for balance, not only offensively, but on the D side of the ball, to not leave everything up to one player, one position. 

 

Universally there are nothing but great things written about Hamilton.  A man on the come, a future star in coaching.  I am cautiously optimistic.  I also love what the Colts did on a much broader scale, which is hire a young minority candidate to a critical position.  We watch the same coaches depart the carousel all the time, and I like the willingness to reach out, find new talent, look for creative solutions.  The Colts have the guts, the resolve, to look outside the box, and fit matching pieces together to find success.  That process will take more than drafting a QB, building an OL, finding parts for a 3-4 D.  I'm on board. 

[ColtJ82]

I would think it would be a somewhat adapted version. Most WCO teams are some modified version of what the Niners ran under Walsh. Philadelphia's offense is a good example of a modified version. TY would be our Desean Jackson in that version. I would think Pep would build it around the talent on the team. We have significantly more speed to work with than Stanford. 

 

Actually, our personnel would fit Andy Reid's version pretty well. 

 

Luck = much better version of Vick

Wayne = Maclin

Hilton = Jackson

Ballard = McCoy

We have better tight ends than Celek

Our O-line is terrible = Philly's terrible O-line

Brazil/Adams = Avant

 

Wouldn't have a problem with this. Really hoping Stanfords conservative style wasn't a product of Pep.

[SilentHill]

As long as points per game (18th in the league) gets on par with our yardage per game (10th), I will take whatever gets us there. I would even swap our points per game with our yardage per game ranking.

 

I don't know about you, but I want our Record (T-6th best in the NFL) in 2012 to be on par with out record in 2013. lol

[SilentHill]

Actually, our personnel would fit Andy Reid's version pretty well. 

 

Luck = much better version of Vick

Wayne = Maclin

Hilton = Jackson

Ballard = McCoy

We have better tight ends than Celek

Our O-line is terrible = Philly's terrible O-line

Brazil/Adams = Avant

 

Wouldn't have a problem with this. Really hoping Stanfords conservative style wasn't a product of Pep.

 

Look how good that team did over the last few years. lol

 

Lots of pro-bowlers in that list, and disappointing seasons.

[shecolt]

Several posts that were nothing but petty bickering have been removed from this thread.

 

I am asking those involved to please stop. 

[chad72]

I don't know about you, but I want our Record (T-6th best in the NFL) in 2012 to be on par with out record in 2013. lol

 

 

don't worry, once we take care of our point differential by not leaving points on the field, it will reflect in the right win total at the end, IMO

[ColtJ82]

Look how good that team did over the last few years. lol

 

Lots of pro-bowlers in that list, and disappointing seasons.

A lot of that is a product of the Defense though

[SilentHill]

Let's wait for the presser and hear what management says about philosophies, approaches, personnel, all of that.  I was the * who linked Stanford stats, even looked up Howard University stats.  For all of those, there is also the truth that Hamilton is a QB guy, more time spent in the pros as a QB coach.  And he, like all of us, know that as constructed the Colts aren't the 49ers.  They aren't even Stanford in terms of personnel.  At the core I think he is more Roman than Moore, but that doesn't mean he will allow an offense to be run which can't function based on personnel.  Will he want a smashmouth, physical, stop our run team?  Maybe.  I think so.  But that doesn't exclude Luck, passing, being explosive.  Luck was all those things at Stanford while with Hamilton. 

 

I am concerned about the hire, but that is based on associations through history, and frankly, I'm not a fan of that type of football.  We spent a long time - since 1998 - watching a QB dominated offense.  Yet most of us also scream for balance, not only offensively, but on the D side of the ball, to not leave everything up to one player, one position. 

 

Universally there are nothing but great things written about Hamilton.  A man on the come, a future star in coaching.  I am cautiously optimistic.  I also love what the Colts did on a much broader scale, which is hire a young minority candidate to a critical position.  We watch the same coaches depart the carousel all the time, and I like the willingness to reach out, find new talent, look for creative solutions.  The Colts have the guts, the resolve, to look outside the box, and fit matching pieces together to find success.  That process will take more than drafting a QB, building an OL, finding parts for a 3-4 D.  I'm on board. 

 

Well said.

 

Hamilton himself said he cost Luck  the Heisman. I hope he learned from that experience. Don't waste his talent. This team should be QB driven, if it's not your leaving money on the table.

[luckyblue]

Yeah if you have Adrian Peterson as your running back, sure you can go to more of a run first and then pass on third down if you have to, but Vick Ballard is no Adrian Peterson, and Christian Ponder is no Andrew Luck, so you need to go with what your strength is no matter who the OC is. Andrew needs to be throwing the ball 2/3 of the time, they don't have to be always long passes like B.A. liked, in fact I never liked Andrew throwing so many long passes and so few short passes, hopefully the new O.C. will go to the Colts Strengths not Stanfords because were not built to be like them. A nice mix of short and long passes by Luck sprinked in with runs will be just what the doctor ordered!

[DeAngelo]

Really hoping Stanfords conservative style wasn't a product of Pep.

 

I think Stanford's style had a lot to do with their personnel:  a very deep, physical, punishing o-line; a stable of solid running backs; three nfl-bound tight ends; a world class quarterback; and a shallow, slow receiving corps.

 

Luck aired it out a lot more back in his sophomore season when he had Doug Baldwin and Ryan Whalen getting open downfield (when Shaw was the OC and Hamilton was on staff as well).  Luck's last year, his only fast receiver, Owusu, had his bell rung repeatedly and was out most of the year, and most of the passes went to the TEs. 

 

The word in the program is that Hamilton is a highly technical, stone cold calculus kind of guy.  He inherited a personnel package designed to win with efficiency and cruelty, and he did exactly that.  I'm interested to see what he'll do with the current roster, which isn't necessarily built for that type of football (particularly the O-line).

[MSColtsFan]

Yeah if you have Adrian Peterson as your running back, sure you can go to more of a run first and then pass on third down if you have to, but Vick Ballard is no Adrian Peterson, and Christian Ponder is no Andrew Luck, so you need to go with what your strength is no matter who the OC is. Andrew needs to be throwing the ball 2/3 of the time, they don't have to be always long passes like B.A. liked, in fact I never liked Andrew throwing so many long passes and so few short passes, hopefully the new O.C. will go to the Colts Strengths not Stanfords because were not built to be like them. A nice mix of short and long passes by Luck sprinked in with runs will be just what the doctor ordered!

 

At the risk of making this sound like some prediction, in 98 the Colts took a QB, WR, WR.  In 99 they took a RB.  I know it went QB, TE, TE in 2012, but...   If the worse that comes out of this is the Colts take the best RB in the draft and then D, and sign OL in FA, maybe a defender too, I think I will be thrilled with the results.  It's ok if the Colts add a stud RB.  Like QBs, RBs make many others around them better.  And unlike 99, the best available back in the draft will most likely still be on the board at 24.  Between the FA money and the draft, I think many parts, not all, could be added to shape the running game and continue the work to build the 3-4 to Pagano's liking.  And Luck will improve, and 87 is still there, those rookies now sophomores...   I'm just saying... 

[GoColts00]

If we go with a zone-blocking scheme for the O-Line then Andy LeVitre and Johnathon Cooper would be great OG's to have. I'm still wondering about RT though. Vollmer is the best when healthy, but i don't know if i trust his back problems to keep him on the field for 4 years. Andre Smith, if given a contract that has Lots of Performance bonuses, would probably be the safer choice.

Castanzo-LeVitre-Shipley-Cooper-Smith seems like a pretty good zone-blocking O-Line.

But there is also the "600-lb gorilla" in fixing the Defense also. With Chapman & McKinney both returning next season I don't see the need for a NT. We need to replace Freeney. I've heard Paul Kruger's name thrown out a lot and he was good this last season, but that was just 1 season. Likewise with Anthony Spencer. He had a great season last year, but that was just 1 season. We need a CB opposite of Vontae. If the Eagles let Asomugha go I wouldn't mind picking him up to see if there is anything left for his cover-corner skills. But i would definitely draft a CB as well. My personal favorite CB in the draft is Adrian Bushell, Louisville. We need a SS. I've seen Kenny Phillips' name appear on the Forum. He is an elite Safety, but also has had injuries in the past. My favorite Draft person for the position would be DeVonte Holloman, South Carolina. He plays both SS and OLB, so we can have 5 OLB on the field and he is able to drop back into coverage as a SS also.

[trailertrash]

If we go with a zone-blocking scheme for the O-Line then Andy LeVitre and Johnathon Cooper would be great OG's to have. I'm still wondering about RT though. Vollmer is the best when healthy, but i don't know if i trust his back problems to keep him on the field for 4 years. Andre Smith, if given a contract that has Lots of Performance bonuses, would probably be the safer choice.

Castanzo-LeVitre-Shipley-Cooper-Smith seems like a pretty good zone-blocking O-Line.

But there is also the "600-lb gorilla" in fixing the Defense also. With Chapman & McKinney both returning next season I don't see the need for a NT. We need to replace Freeney. I've heard Paul Kruger's name thrown out a lot and he was good this last season, but that was just 1 season. Likewise with Anthony Spencer. He had a great season last year, but that was just 1 season. We need a CB opposite of Vontae. If the Eagles let Asomugha go I wouldn't mind picking him up to see if there is anything left for his cover-corner skills. But i would definitely draft a CB as well. My personal favorite CB in the draft is Adrian Bushell, Louisville. We need a SS. I've seen Kenny Phillips' name appear on the Forum. He is an elite Safety, but also has had injuries in the past. My favorite Draft person for the position would be DeVonte Holloman, South Carolina. He plays both SS and OLB, so we can have 5 OLB on the field and he is able to drop back into coverage as a SS also.

I'd rather not draft Cooper and draft Warford in the 3rd round. I'd also rather draft Menelik Watson as RT in 1st round. Andy Levitre is the only guard I'd be really interested in. Other than him, the rest of the zone-personnel are cast-aways like McGlynn and Justice were this year. 

[ColtsBlueFL]

Luck knows it in his sleep, as does Fleener and Whalen. So this might mean a bigger role for the latter two. From all indication Stanford's Offense had a very good offensive line and running to set up the pass.

 

We were already going to address the offensive line in the offseason. But does this mean we need a bigger runningback in addition to Vick Ballard? If so, does this mean we'll be targeting Stepfan Taylor (5'11" 215 lbs) in this upcoming draft (if we weren't already)? Can Donald Brown perform in this system? Also, will this give new life to Delone Carter?

 

What does this mean for our small, fast WRs? I noticed in an interview that Hamilton says in his offense everyone can block and everyone can catch. Does Whalen move into a more prominent role? Maybe a late round or undrafted Free Agent selection of Stanford WR Drew Terrell? Does this change in OC mean TE Weslye Saunders will now see and increase in playing time (Stanford runs 2 and 3 TE sets a lot)?

 

Time will tell. But this offseason will continue to be exciting.

 

Almost every team needs O line help and is looking for O linemen.  Our draft(s) had better be good, because the pool is small and gets smaller with every O line pick...

[Gavin]

http://www.examiner.com/article/a-look-at-mike-shanahan-s-zone-blocking-scheme

http://xandolabs.com/2011/05/o-line-blocking-the-stretchoutside-zone-scheme/

http://www.rockytoptalk.com/2009/3/31/815874/zone-blocking-tutorial-inside-zone

http://www.athletic-assistant.com/uploads/ZoneBlocking.pdf

 

 

Im not 100 percent sure what blocking scheme we will be using but the above links are tutorials on Zone Blocking, It should be noted that most of our O Linemen (outside of Anderson) all were drafted into a Zone Blocking scheme originally or were picked up in one vie other means such as FA or Undrafted FA

[NewColtsFan]

To be safe, I've been asking around....

 

Stanford does not run zone blocking schemes...    they run man....

 

I don't know if that's what Hamilton will want to do...   but I suspect he'll stick with man...

 

I'll have more on this in the next day or two....

[Gavin]

To be safe, I've been asking around....

 

Stanford does not run zone blocking schemes...    they run man....

 

I don't know if that's what Hamilton will want to do...   but I suspect he'll stick with man...

 

I'll have more on this in the next day or two....

where did ya hear that

[NewColtsFan]

where did ya hear that

 

On the premium page of my Stanford website....   I sent a private e-mail to a former Stanford offensive lineman.

[Gavin]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3116870/West-Coast-Offensive-Play-Book#playbook

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/terminology.htm

 

 

 

The above link is just a sample of what ideas could be in store in our new Offensive scheme

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I think Stanford's style had a lot to do with their personnel:  a very deep, physical, punishing o-line; a stable of solid running backs; three nfl-bound tight ends; a world class quarterback; and a shallow, slow receiving corps.

 

I agree.

[TKnight24]

Like I said, idc what Offense we run. Just keep Andrew Luck away from the Sophomore Slump!!!!!

[YOUR GM]

I think Stanford's style had a lot to do with their personnel:  a very deep, physical, punishing o-line; a stable of solid running backs; three nfl-bound tight ends; a world class quarterback; and a shallow, slow receiving corps.

 

Luck aired it out a lot more back in his sophomore season when he had Doug Baldwin and Ryan Whalen getting open downfield (when Shaw was the OC and Hamilton was on staff as well).  Luck's last year, his only fast receiver, Owusu, had his bell rung repeatedly and was out most of the year, and most of the passes went to the TEs. 

 

The word in the program is that Hamilton is a highly technical, stone cold calculus kind of guy.  He inherited a personnel package designed to win with efficiency and cruelty, and he did exactly that.  I'm interested to see what he'll do with the current roster, which isn't necessarily built for that type of football (particularly the O-line).

 

 

This is good to hear. I think a more cerebral approach to offense is needed. Airing it out deep all game is fun to watch, but not very smart football. Sounds like Hamilton is more sensible in what he'll be asking his players to do next year. As long as he builds the offense around the talent on the roster, we should be fine.

 

Sidenote: What do you guys think our chances of going after Ertz in this draft are? I don't even know where he's projected to be picked. Just curious

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Sidenote: What do you guys think our chances of going after Ertz in this draft are? I don't even know where he's projected to be picked. Just curious

 

I don't even know what an Ertz is.

[ColtJ82]

I don't even know what an Ertz is.

 

 

This is good to hear. I think a more cerebral approach to offense is needed. Airing it out deep all game is fun to watch, but not very smart football. Sounds like Hamilton is more sensible in what he'll be asking his players to do next year. As long as he builds the offense around the talent on the roster, we should be fine.

 

Sidenote: What do you guys think our chances of going after Ertz in this draft are? I don't even know where he's projected to be picked. Just curious

We have bigger needs than a TE who would be picked in the first couple of rounds. Has even declared this year? I didn't think he would come out until 2014.

[BOTT]

To be safe, I've been asking around....

 

Stanford does not run zone blocking schemes...    they run man....

 

I don't know if that's what Hamilton will want to do...   but I suspect he'll stick with man...

 

I'll have more on this in the next day or two....

Me tried to point this out earlier...not sure why people thought Stanford was a zone blocking team

[BOTT]

This is good to hear. I think a more cerebral approach to offense is needed. Airing it out deep all game is fun to watch, but not very smart football. Sounds like Hamilton is more sensible in what he'll be asking his players to do next year. As long as he builds the offense around the talent on the roster, we should be fine.

 

Sidenote: What do you guys think our chances of going after Ertz in this draft are? I don't even know where he's projected to be picked. Just curious

He is right there with Tyler Eifert to be the first TE taken..probably low first to mid second round

[ColtsBlueFL]

Yep building a better Oline is probably Grigsons primary mission.

 

Indeed, but we are not alone.  I travel for biz and listen to local sports radio. Nearly every team says they need to improve their O line.  The amount of decent talent at G and T is finite, so we have to make every acquisition a good one, because that pool will be depleted in short order.

[Balzer40]

Indeed, but we are not alone.  I travel for biz and listen to local sports radio. Nearly every team says they need to improve their O line.  The amount of decent talent at G and T is finite, so we have to make every acquisition a good one, because that pool will be depleted in short order.

 

 

I agree. We need to go fast and hard after the best O-line talent on the market. We probably won't get everybody we target but to get at the very least 2 of them is paramount IMO.

[ColtsBlueFL]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/3116870/West-Coast-Offensive-Play-Book#playbook

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/terminology.htm

 

 

 

The above link is just a sample of what ideas could be in store in our new Offensive scheme

 

Thanks! I've been reading these-

 

http://www.centuryinter.net/midway/chris/westcoast/wco.pdf

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

[throwing BBZ]

EVERY Knowledgeable Coach/Fan knows a very good running game sets up a good play-action passing game.

That was the ONLY WAY our Stat$ QB won a SB.

It was worth it in many ways for so many Bad teams to find ways to lose to our very mediocre TEAM, but going forward Andrew badly needs a reliable running game so he can be MUCH MORE Efficient against SB caliber teams.

[SilentHill]

At the risk of making this sound like some prediction, in 98 the Colts took a QB, WR, WR.  In 99 they took a RB.  I know it went QB, TE, TE in 2012, but...   If the worse that comes out of this is the Colts take the best RB in the draft and then D, and sign OL in FA, maybe a defender too, I think I will be thrilled with the results.  It's ok if the Colts add a stud RB.  Like QBs, RBs make many others around them better.  And unlike 99, the best available back in the draft will most likely still be on the board at 24.  Between the FA money and the draft, I think many parts, not all, could be added to shape the running game and continue the work to build the 3-4 to Pagano's liking.  And Luck will improve, and 87 is still there, those rookies now sophomores...   I'm just saying... 

 

We don't need a RB, there are several other much more pressing needs of this team.