GoColts8818 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 dwight isn't plating tonight. there are only two possible reasons for that, save for real games or trade. if they wanted to cut him, they'd play him all nightor cut him before the game and sign someone else to take a look at it. I'd agree the signs aren't pointing to him getting cut. I could see a trade however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Q Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Has anyone even seen him on the sidelines? Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Has anyone even seen him on the sidelines? Just wondering.Phil B. on twitter said he was there in a white Colts polo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Man y'all sound like texans fans and Mario Williams last year minus the cutting him part because texans fans knew that wasn't happening. And Mario is 290lbs and made the transition fine 5 sacks in 5 games and a forced fumble. I heard all the doubts on Mario all offseason just like I'm hearing now that he couldn't make the transition and he shut everybody up week 1 first quarter when he killed Kerry Collins. Freeney will shut everybody up week 1 as well against that shaky bears offense. Can he at least play a game first with the whole defensive package before y'all criticize him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Daytona Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 No criticism from me, just hoping he adjusts half as well as Williams did, and we will be fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krunk Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 i think if he was under any threat of being cut, they would have had him out there playing tonight. He's not even injured.I think the coaching staff likes where he's at more than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Again, set aside the status of his contract. If you think he's a GREAT player (I'm only asking if he's a good player), then I'm assuming you would agree that we are better with him than we are without him. No? Of course, that's not taking the contract into consideration. Yes, freeing up $14 million in cap space could help us add some players, but I'm talking about Freeney on his merits as a player.If you think he's a GREAT player, then it stands to reason that it's worth an effort to keep him on the team, wouldn't you agree?Im sure we will keep him but the contract cant be dismissed, Just based on his play now (it could get much better or it could not) I think the question to this point is, is his play worth his contract, Like I said Im sure we keep him but the same question will be asked at the end of the season by Grigson and coaches that they will have to answer, Its all about justification in my view, for example lets say he comes out this year and gets 8.5 sacks which is what he got last year. Does that equal 14 million $, The way Jerry is playing and Aino and Hickman I would have to trade Freeney for a 5th rounder. Now obviously we agree on what needs to improve (angles and lack of containment) for the most part about his game in this new system and they certainly are correctable but what if they are not corrected? (This could all be a moot point if he comes out this year and plays great) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Im sure we will keep him but the contract cant be dismissed, Just based on his play now (it could get much better or it could not) I think the question to this point is, is his play worth his contract, Like I said Im sure we keep him but the same question will be asked at the end of the season by Grigson and coaches that they will have to answer, Its all about justification in my view, for example lets say he comes out this year and gets 7.5 sacks which is what he got last year. Does that equal 14 million $, The way Jerry is playing and Aino and Hickman I would have to trade Freeney for a 5th rounder. Now obviously we agree on what needs to improve (angles and lack of containment) for the most part about his game in this new system and they certainly are correctable but what if they are not corrected? (This could all be a moot point if he comes out this year and plays great)8.5 sacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 8.5 sacksOops, sorry Freeney lol I thought it might be 8.5 but didnt look it up like I have before and forgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Even Raheem Brock produced 9.0 sacks when he left the colts and went to a hybrid defense in the Seahawks in 2010 nearly tripling his average sacks he had in Indy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Raheem Brock was a tweener I think 6'4" 274lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Raheem Brock was a tweener I think 6'4" 274lbsFreeney 6'1 268lbs not much difference the new position tends to help 30+ yr old veterans. Gives them something to get excited about and extra motivation and rushing the passer different ways. Instead of coming to work rushing off the Jake Long and Joe Thomas of the world every play. You can see it Freeney is out there hustling wayy more than he use to. He is chasing on the backside when the ball goes away from him when in previous years once the ball goes away from him he is shutting it down. He chasing down on the little bubble screens. He is hustling alot more than what he use to. This position change put a pep in his step. He has his little miscues from time to time but it's little things that's fixable. Pagano already knows he can rush the passer that's not a question Pagano wanted to see how he fares in his new responsibilities this preseason and he is doing that for the most part(even though he over ran some run plays) and lost containment on the backside. Taking on pulling guards and tackles and what not so they don't get up on the inside linebackers so they can make the plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahhummbug Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How am I stuck on Freeney in any way? You're the one who won't answer the question.I'm not suggesting he's going to single-handedly win games. If anyone is stuck on anything, it's you, as you clearly demonstrate with your pledge to make a thread every time Freeney doesn't play to perfection. I wonder if you're going to start a thread for every incomplete pass Andrew Luck throws. This is silly.Since you're unwilling to answer the question, I'll assume you don't want to debate this topic on it's merits. I'm moving on.I answered it any one repeat anyone can help a team win mario addison ? better OLB who CMON MAn i answered it anyone can help but not with 11% of teams repeat teams pay,did you not see hughes cmon a real threat Freeney showed what in 3-4?This subject should be closed by now but you guys seem to think he deserves 14 more million dollars because hes going to win almost 2 games on his own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahhummbug Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Now go back to where i answered you since you didnt have your glasses on and read where i said even a rookie can help a team win.Where you got i didnt answer is unreal this site is getting redundant and boring.Too many want to believe in a 1 man army.Team team team team Freeney what division is that team in? Is it in NFC never seen the Freeney team? Unreal to believe hes our chance to have a winning season .If i stay on this site iI promise to add all his bloopers wheres the ball ooops missed tackles throw to Freeneys side vids i find Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt Following Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree that it would be asinine to cut Dwight Freeney right now. It doesn't help us with the salary cap, it doesn't help our team get better. He's one of the all time greatest pass rushers in the NFL, and pressuring the QB is one of the most important aspects of winning in today's NFL. He isn't going to be dropping into coverage more than a handful of times a game. The dude is still a great pass rusher, even for 19 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Waylon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hughes continues to impress me with his ability to get to the QB. He could seriously turn into an asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I answered it any one repeat anyone can help a team win mario addison ? better OLB who CMON MAn i answered it anyone can help but not with 11% of teams repeat teams pay,did you not see hughes cmon a real threat Freeney showed what in 3-4?This subject should be closed by now but you guys seem to think he deserves 14 more million dollars because hes going to win almost 2 games on his ownPlayers also benefit from just having Freeney on the field. He dictates pass protections which leaves one on one matchups for everyone else and causes some teams to max protect when he is on top of his game. He makes favorable matchups for us just being on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bahhummbug Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Players also benefit from just having Freeney on the field. He dictates pass protections which leaves one on one matchups for everyone else and causes some teams to max protect when he is on top of his game. He makes favorable matchups for us just being on the fieldSo another Freeney follower when he plays both offense and def and st and wins 2 games to equal his salary ill be a Freeney follower in 3-4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 So another Freeney follower when he plays both offense and def and st and wins 2 games to equal his salary ill be a Freeney follower in 3-4It's not your checkbook. Don't like it oh well that's what he's getting paid get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedub75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Some people just don't know when to let go. We have holes in so many places. Losing Freeney as an OLB wouldn't make the defense any worse than what it is. Having him there as an OLB isn't making the defense any better either. I think we could find a quality NT and/or offensive line help with the $14M saved from releasing Freeney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shepman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I looked long and hard and he definately wasn't dressed for the game and I did not see him in plain clothes anywhere. Btw I was at the game on the Colts side and had a good view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieG Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hughes continues to impress me with his ability to get to the QB. He could seriously turn into an asset.Hughes has looked great. The guy has a new attitude about himself. He is playing like a completely different player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoColts8818 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hughes continues to impress me with his ability to get to the QB. He could seriously turn into an asset.I liked what I saw of him during the pre-season but I want to see more of him with the first unit. I was a little surprised he didn't get the start tonight since Freeney didn't go. I am guessing they wanted to give the other guy a look since Hughes got it last week that or they view Hughes as only Mathis's back up and maybe they are trying to find a guy who can be Freeney's backup and still line up in the 3 point stance like Freeney has been doing at times this pre-season and we all know that is not Hughes strong suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Waylon Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Hughes has looked great. The guy has a new attitude about himself. He is playing like a completely different player.Yep. And if he keeps playing that way and being effective and Freeney don't, it could get interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StewieG Posted August 31, 2012 Author Share Posted August 31, 2012 So another Freeney follower when he plays both offense and def and st and wins 2 games to equal his salary ill be a Freeney follower in 3-4Do you have a personal grudge against Freeney or something?Freeney has almost EVERY preseason, shown nothing.At least wait til mid season to pretend to know he is going to fail.Because we DON'T know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Peytonator Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Man y'all sound like texans fans and Mario Williams last year minus the cutting him part because texans fans knew that wasn't happening. And Mario is 290lbs and made the transition fine 5 sacks in 5 games and a forced fumble. I heard all the doubts on Mario all offseason just like I'm hearing now that he couldn't make the transition and he shut everybody up week 1 first quarter when he killed Kerry Collins. Freeney will shut everybody up week 1 as well against that shaky bears offense. Can he at least play a game first with the whole defensive package before y'all criticize himI agree with you on all counts, but I believe in that week 1 performance he got 2 sacks against Dallas Clark.....still not sure why they had Dallas blocking Mario by himself. Chalk that one up to some solid coaching/game planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HtownColt Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree with you on all counts, but I believe in that week 1 performance he got 2 sacks against Dallas Clark.....still not sure why they had Dallas blocking Mario by himself. Chalk that one up to some solid coaching/game planning.That's the luxury of this kind of defense any other year Mario Williams would've been going up against the LT the whole game. Wade Phillips put his best rusher in position and exploited a non blocking tight end trying to block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwest1 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Freeney is one of the LAST people I blame for our loss to the Saints. But 2 names come to mind if they really want to play the "Blame Game".1. Hank Baskett2. Jacob LaceyFreeney will give this team 100% until he drops....so will his brother in arms Mayhem!!! (Mathis) Wont happensame story since March when Grigson said,"Looking forward to DE Dwight Freeney being part of Colts defense in '12. He will be a Colt."I still think that is true and Freeney will have a great yearThe human tornado and master of angles and torc is a fantastic pass rusher. I just wish Coach Pagano had appointed Robert Mathis with the Suggs INDY role not Dwight Freeney. I don't trust Freeney in coverage. He doesn't have exceptional stop and start recovery speed. Can he close distance in coverage? I have serious reservations here myself. I love Freeney, but I gotta be honest here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Some people just don't know when to let go. We have holes in so many places. Losing Freeney as an OLB wouldn't make the defense any worse than what it is. Having him there as an OLB isn't making the defense any better either. I think we could find a quality NT and/or offensive line help with the $14M saved from releasing Freeney.Thank you for addressing the question. If you don't think Freeney has measurable and significant value to the team, then there's no reason to keep paying him like he's one of the best players in the league. In that case, cut or trade him before the season starts. I DO think he has signiciant value -- at least I assume he will in the new scheme. As such, I think it makes sense to redo his contract and keep him on the team. I would certainly prefer that to the alternative of carrying him at $19 million for one year, knowing that we don't intend to resign him. Even worse would be to endure that cap hit and then turn around and give him another contract. That's just lunacy. While I don't agree with your assessment of Freeney, I do agree with your approach. If he's not important to your prospects this season, then you can use that money more effectively. I don't think there's a quality NT available right now. Maybe there are some good linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The human tornado and master of angles and torc is a fantastic pass rusher. I just wish Coach Pagano had appointed Robert Mathis with the Suggs INDY role not Dwight Freeney. I don't trust Freeney in coverage. He doesn't have exceptional stop and start recovery speed. Can he close distance in coverage? I have serious reservations here myself. I love Freeney, but I gotta be honest here.In the Suggs role, Freeney won't be in coverage any significant amount of time. I'm very confident of that. Based on what I've seen, you're looking at less than 5% of the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I agree that it would be asinine to cut Dwight Freeney right now. It doesn't help us with the salary cap, it doesn't help our team get better. He's one of the all time greatest pass rushers in the NFL, and pressuring the QB is one of the most important aspects of winning in today's NFL. He isn't going to be dropping into coverage more than a handful of times a game. The dude is still a great pass rusher, even for 19 million.It absolutely helps us with the cap, to the tune of $14 million. And that can be earmarked for next season. And it could be argued that that money could help make us better if it allows us to sign a contributor at a position of need. Most importantly, there is no cutting Freeney after this week. His base salary -- $14 million -- is guaranteed once Week 1 starts. If you cut him, it has to be now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southwest1 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 In the Suggs role, Freeney won't be in coverage any significant amount of time. I'm very confident of that. Based on what I've seen, you're looking at less than 5% of the time.You could be right Superman. But all it takes is getting beat once in coverage for a significant gain to blow a tight defensive, smash mouth game wide open 5% or not. Yes, this circumstance may be remote I will admit, but not impossible. Recovery speed does indeed matter in an OLB. If you can't cover effectively and I can't rely on you as a coach, I'm not putting you in that role period end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
esmort Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Does anyone have a good grasp of the rules concerning compensatory draft picks?Is there a certain number of accrued years a veteran can have that negates the team getting a compensatory draft pick if said player is signed by another team as a FA?Personally I am against cutting Freeney ... I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I am curious as to the different scenarios and if compensatory picks would come into play if we do happen to keep him and then let him go in FA after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBlu8792 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 First of all, how goes it Colts fans... Long time reader and long time Colts fan. I figured I would venture over here as I am regular over at cbssports.com in the Colts section there, but find it to be much more busier over here..Now in regards to Freeney. When looking at him and what his "value" will be to the team in referrence to what he's going to be paid and what we will actually see out of him, I, personally, don't expect to see him live up to his $19MIL price tag. To me he would need to win DPOY, and break the sack record for me to consider his $19MIL price tag worth while. I just don't see it and I HIGHLY doubt anyone on here see's that out of him this year.As a fan its hard to look at the "business" aspect of things, but we have to put ourselves in Irsay's shoes and look at whats best for the team. Cutting Freeney would, in my opinion, would benefit the team more in the long run than "going all in" on a player whom we have no idea what will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedBlu8792 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And another thing from what I've read on this thread:Giving Freeney a free pass since its preseason... "Its preseason, Freeney never really does anything in preseason..."I don't really think thats very fair to the other guys (Hughes, Addison) who are playing their *es off right now and thriving in the system while Freeney, who hasn't really done anything, gets a free pass. Even Mathis was out there putting in work last night. Regardless of his name or how much he makes, as a coach or even GM, I would be putting my best guy out there. No matter the circumstance I want to see the players going hard ALL OF THE TIME, not just when they feel its necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smittywerb Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I'm mad that they're blaming Freeney for our lost to the Saints in the Super Bowl. Yeah he had a bum ankle, so what? He still managed to take that lineman for a ride into Brees.Freeney is one of the LAST people I blame for our loss to the Saints. But 2 names come to mind if they really want to play the "Blame Game".1. Hank Baskett2. Jacob LaceyI'll do you one better, how about playing a vanilla defense that Drew Brees ate apart. He threw underneath routes and comebacks the entire game and we let him. Or how about running the clock out before halftime leaving a 2-minute drill on the field? Too many things went wrong up top before we can even place blame on the players. Hank Baskett catching that ball would have only covered up what the coaches didn't do.On a totally unrelated note, on radio, I heard that Jake Scott does not want to come back and play unless it is for a deal that does not shortchange him.I don't know why we ever let him go in the first place. He was a good lineman. Line hasn't been right since. Isn't that when we had Tarik, Saturday, Scott, Diem, AND Lilja!?! We never should have let go Lilja and Scott. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TKnight24 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The human tornado and master of angles and torc is a fantastic pass rusher. I just wish Coach Pagano had appointed Robert Mathis with the Suggs INDY role not Dwight Freeney. I don't trust Freeney in coverage. He doesn't have exceptional stop and start recovery speed. Can he close distance in coverage? I have serious reservations here myself. I love Freeney, but I gotta be honest here.I thought when they saw Mathis strap Fleener in Practice is when they were gonna give Mathis that Role. But then when Freeney caught that Pick, it changed to keeping him there imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedub75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 And another thing from what I've read on this thread:Giving Freeney a free pass since its preseason... "Its preseason, Freeney never really does anything in preseason..."I don't really think thats very fair to the other guys (Hughes, Addison) who are playing their *es off right now and thriving in the system while Freeney, who hasn't really done anything, gets a free pass. Even Mathis was out there putting in work last night. Regardless of his name or how much he makes, as a coach or even GM, I would be putting my best guy out there. No matter the circumstance I want to see the players going hard ALL OF THE TIME, not just when they feel its necessary.Freeney never did anything in preseason because he never had too. He was so good at what he did that the preaseason was a tuneup for him. This is a new coach, staff, scheme, and he's playing a new role. Since he's in the final year of his contract, and he's learning a new role, his performance needs to be measured. He absolutely SHOULD have been playinging in last night's game if we were keeping him. He needs all of the practice he can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deedub75 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thank you for addressing the question. If you don't think Freeney has measurable and significant value to the team, then there's no reason to keep paying him like he's one of the best players in the league. In that case, cut or trade him before the season starts.I DO think he has signiciant value -- at least I assume he will in the new scheme. As such, I think it makes sense to redo his contract and keep him on the team. I would certainly prefer that to the alternative of carrying him at $19 million for one year, knowing that we don't intend to resign him. Even worse would be to endure that cap hit and then turn around and give him another contract. That's just lunacy.While I don't agree with your assessment of Freeney, I do agree with your approach. If he's not important to your prospects this season, then you can use that money more effectively. I don't think there's a quality NT available right now. Maybe there are some good linemen.Even if Freeney was playing his old DE role, I still wouldn't want the Colts to keep him at a $19M cap hit. I'm fine with him staying on the team even in a new role but only if they extend him or somehow negotiate a new contract. If we're keeping him he very well should have played last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I think some of you are not taking into account 1 very important fact and it has nothing to do with the amount of years left on his contract, nothing to do with age, nothing to do with production or new defense BUT it has everything to do with Freeney has to AGREE to redo his contract and lets be realistic how many guys his age at the latter stages of his career say "Ok Mr. Grigson I will restructure my 14 million 1 year deal even though I know I wont be around much longer". So down to two options.....see if Freeney can turn it on this year and turn him loose to just be the pass rusher that he is (Which he has other respnsibilities other then pass rush, he has containment responsibilities which he struggles with). So he has to agree to restructure. Grigson just cant restructure on his own. As for do I think anything it will happen? No, Im sure he will be on the roster and be on the roster at 14 million if for no other reason then the simple fact that what Freeney COULD do (potentially) in the 3-4 as a OLB/DE intrigues Grigson. It intrigues me for that matter I just dont see this being a success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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