PFF Day 2 draft grades

[Gavin]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/29/draft-2016-nfl-draft-pick-by-pick-grades-and-analysis-of-day-2/

 

PFF Day 2 draft grades according to Senior Analyst Steve Palazzalo

[BOTT]

So he thinks Hackenberg's tape from his freshman year was horrible? Ok.....

[Gavin]

8 minutes ago, BOTT said:

So he thinks Hackenberg's tape from his freshman year was horrible? Ok.....

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/04/08/draft-why-pff-doesnt-have-a-draftable-grade-on-christian-hackenberg/

 

Here is Sam Monsons explanation as to why they did not have a draftable grade on Hackenberg

[chrisfarley]

there are no words

 

26 (57). Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green | Grade: D-

(Pick acquired in trade with Green Bay Packers) 

Another selection based on size and speed, Green did not play well last season, finishing 90^th overall among draftable safeties. His -10.8 coverage grade ranked dead last as he often looked lost in space. There were pre-draft rumors that he might transition to cornerback, and while the size and speed are intriguing, he has to make immense improvements to be worth a second-round pick no matter which position he plays.

[csmopar]

17 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

there are no words

 

26 (57). Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green | Grade: D-

(Pick acquired in trade with Green Bay Packers) 

Another selection based on size and speed, Green did not play well last season, finishing 90^th overall among draftable safeties. His -10.8 coverage grade ranked dead last as he often looked lost in space. There were pre-draft rumors that he might transition to cornerback, and while the size and speed are intriguing, he has to make immense improvements to be worth a second-round pick no matter which position he plays.

well, we knew Grigs had to make a risky pick somewhere considering his love affair with project players.  It was bound to happen

[Lawrence Owen]

Per NFL Network:

Indianapolis Colts 
Draft picks: Ryan Kelly (No. 18 overall), T.J. Green (No. 57 overall), Le'Raven Clark (No. 82 overall) 
Day 1 grade: A 
Day 2 grade: A 
Overall grade: A 
The skinny: Ryan Kelly will be a stud in the middle, and protecting Andrew Luck became truly important after he missed time last season. The Colts required help in the secondary and Green is a versatile, hard-charging defender worth a late second round pick. Clark brings some nasty to the offensive line.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2635020-tj-green-nfl-draft-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-colts-rookie

And here Green pick was rated a A+ by Cris Simms...as a matter of fact they had a 'standing ovation' for Grigsons first 2 picks.

[theanarchist]

IDK anything about Green. I did see an article that said he may have gone as high as a late first round selection. He doesn't have to play right away as long as Adams and Geathers stay healthy but ya, hopefully Pagano did his own homework on this one and felt good about the pick.

 

As for Clark, he looks like he could be a real good pick but has some work to do in the weight room. Again, I like to see the offensive line being addressed.

[Lawrence Owen]

3 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

IDK anything about Green. I did see an article that said he may have gone as high as a late first round selection. He doesn't have to play right away as long as Adams and Geathers stay healthy but ya, hopefully Pagano did his own homework on this one and felt good about the pick.

 

As for Clark, he looks like he could be a real good pick but has some work to do in the weight room. Again, I like to see the offensive line being addressed.

Click on my link abouve, Simms said he figured Green to be a late first rounder.  I've read it other places as well.

[theanarchist]

Just now, Lawrence Owen said:

Click on my link abouve, Simms said he figured Green to be a late first rounder.  I've read it other places as well.

I did lol. I don't read bleacher report much. However, what it did say didn't impress me lol. "not a willing tackler" "poor tackling skills" "exposed by elite talent". Well, you cant coach speed so hopefully Pagano can coach up the rest lol. Oh well, I wont be critical of the choice yet. I wanted Shilique Calhoun and he was still sitting there at 57 and went to the Raiders about 8 or 9 picks later. This will be a pick to watch going down the road.

[Lawrence Owen]

2 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I did lol. I don't read bleacher report much. However, what it did say didn't impress me lol. "not a willing tackler" "poor tackling skills" "exposed by elite talent". Well, you cant coach speed so hopefully Pagano can coach up the rest lol. Oh well, I wont be critical of the choice yet. I wanted Shilique Calhoun and he was still sitting there at 57 and went to the Raiders about 8 or 9 picks later. This will be a pick to watch going down the road.

oh, fully agree about waiting and watching.  both the day 2 guys seem to have HUGE ceilings, and a large canvas to work with, just raw in some aspects.  Pagano should be able to make Green into an all pro, and Philbin has the brushes with Clark (and Good for that matter!)

Will be fun watching these young guys develop.  For better or for worse.

[Leon]

sounds like PFF has something against us, plenty of site graded out 2nd day picks very highly

 

this from walterfootball

 

Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green, S, Clemson A- Grade 
The Colts moved down and obtained a prospect who could've been chosen a bit earlier than this selection. I like it. T.J. Green is highly athletic, and it's possible that he might be able to play cornerback in the NFL. If not, he can settle in at safety, which was also a huge need for the Colts entering this weekend. 
 

Indianapolis Colts: Le'Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech A- Grade 
I wonder if someone sat Ryan Grigson down and explained to him how important it was to protect Andrew Luck. Grigson had shown a complete disregard toward bolstering Luck's protection prior to the 2016 NFL Draft, but he has obviously changed his strategy. It's obviously for the best though, as Luck will surely like this pick. Le'Raven Clark could've been chosen at the end of the second round, making this a nice value choice. 
 

[JColts72]

At this point, the Jags and Titans would grade much higher. That Jag d may be the monster this season easily over ours, Titans loading up nicely and Texans strong. No picnic in the park this year of beating division weaklings as years past.

[Leon]

also from SI.com

 

26 (57). Indianapolis Colts
T.J. Green, CB, Clemson
GRADE: A

Analysis: Green has been one of the sleepers in this class for many analysts, and it's a bit surprising to see him go this low. He'll be a real asset to Indy's defense as a coverage player who can make up a lot of ground in a big hurry. Where he needs to improve is in his tacking consistency.

INDIANAPOLIS

COLTS

Le'Raven

Clark

T | Texas Tech | Senior

 

Grade A-. Given the teams with tackle needs, Clark stood out as a possible Round 2 (or even late Round 1) pick. The gap between him and No. 31 pick Germain Ifedi is negligible. Clark's huge frame should allow him to step in at right tackle immediately, and the Colts can run right behind him.

[theanarchist]

Just now, Leon said:

sounds like PFF has something against us, plenty of site graded out 2nd day picks very highly

 

this from walterfootball

 

Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green, S, Clemson A- Grade 
The Colts moved down and obtained a prospect who could've been chosen a bit earlier than this selection. I like it. T.J. Green is highly athletic, and it's possible that he might be able to play cornerback in the NFL. If not, he can settle in at safety, which was also a huge need for the Colts entering this weekend. 
 

Indianapolis Colts: Le'Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech A- Grade 
I wonder if someone sat Ryan Grigson down and explained to him how important it was to protect Andrew Luck. Grigson had shown a complete disregard toward bolstering Luck's protection prior to the 2016 NFL Draft, but he has obviously changed his strategy. It's obviously for the best though, as Luck will surely like this pick. Le'Raven Clark could've been chosen at the end of the second round, making this a nice value choice. 
 

Yes, opinions on both guys are all over the board. One thing about Green is that with his size and speed, he would be a good guy to match up with those elite TE's that have killed us from time to time like Gronkowski, Eifert etc. Billings is still on the board!

[Cynjin]

48 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I did lol. I don't read bleacher report much. However, what it did say didn't impress me lol. "not a willing tackler" "poor tackling skills" "exposed by elite talent". Well, you cant coach speed so hopefully Pagano can coach up the rest lol. Oh well, I wont be critical of the choice yet. I wanted Shilique Calhoun and he was still sitting there at 57 and went to the Raiders about 8 or 9 picks later. This will be a pick to watch going down the road.

 

The bolded is the criticism that I don't quite understand.  He had the second most total tackles on Clemson and the most solo tackles, how does that equate to a someone that is not a willing tackler?  I would say that starting on a team that went to the national championship and recording the most solo tackles after being converted to a safety just a year before says a lot for the kid.  Does he need to be coached up?  Absolutely, but all the rookies do.

[ColtsBlueFL]

It almost seems these picks were consensus picks. I can almost picture a conversation like-  

 

'Joe, who's an O lineman with unlimited upside, that might be a diamond in the rough that you can coach up to be great in a year r so?  Joe pounds table- that guy would be LaRaven Clark.  Get him for me.  Grigs every else agree? - OK then.

 

Chuck, same for you.  Who has an incredible ceiling, has traits that can't be coached, but may be raw and is stealthy that can be coached up to greatness?  Chuck states- there's a guy with intriguing speed and good size.  He could possibly be either a cornerback or a safety, he is that raw right now.  He was a receiver and kick returner as a freshman, so he has value for us now in that regard. But with only one year of full time safety play, he lacks instincts and skills to be a day one NFL starter. But give me and our defensive backs coaches a year to work with him and we'll have a true winner on our roster.  Grigs- All in favor? Very well, done deal.'

 

Reallistically, I think both guys will be eventually great, but backups and contributors in their rookie season. At least to start the season.  We'll see how fast they can learn the areas they lack in now and supplant the starter in front of them.

 

So call me, cautiously optimistic.  And one other thing, We all know you can't grade a draft until 3 years down the road.  As far as I'm concerned, every round for every team is a Grade A.  Because not a single player on any team has played a down in an NFL game.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Leon said:

sounds like PFF has something against us, plenty of site graded out 2nd day picks very highly

 

this from walterfootball

 

Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green, S, Clemson A- Grade 
The Colts moved down and obtained a prospect who could've been chosen a bit earlier than this selection. I like it. T.J. Green is highly athletic, and it's possible that he might be able to play cornerback in the NFL. If not, he can settle in at safety, which was also a huge need for the Colts entering this weekend. 
 

Indianapolis Colts: Le'Raven Clark, OT, Texas Tech A- Grade 
I wonder if someone sat Ryan Grigson down and explained to him how important it was to protect Andrew Luck. Grigson had shown a complete disregard toward bolstering Luck's protection prior to the 2016 NFL Draft, but he has obviously changed his strategy. It's obviously for the best though, as Luck will surely like this pick. Le'Raven Clark could've been chosen at the end of the second round, making this a nice value choice. 
 

I wouldn't use walterfootball. Site is horrible.

[ColtsBlueFL]

11 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

The bolded is the criticism that I don't quite understand.  He had the second most total tackles on Clemson and the most solo tackles, how does that equate to a someone that is not a willing tackler?  I would say that starting on a team that went to the national championship and recording the most solo tackles after being converted to a safety just a year before says a lot for the kid.  Does he need to be coached up?  Absolutely, but all the rookies do.

 

Yes he needs coached up.  A current scout that is in the scouting consulting business has this to say about him-

 

"Lacks Instincts. Has no feel in coverage. Late to react and lacks top receiver awareness. Can take poor angles to the ball. Struggles in man-to-man. Height/weight/speed prospect who can really run but not much else."

 

But there is no question in my mind Pagano has been all over the limited tape on the guy and knows what he is getting, and what he will make of him.  That's what good coaches do.

 

 

[Smonroe]

Who cares about post draft grades?  Here's my question:

 

Are our #2 and 3 and those two extra picks going to make an impact and help the team?  More than say Reed and Hargrave or Frackell?

 

I'm very skeptical.  

[indyagent17]

1 hour ago, theanarchist said:

I did lol. I don't read bleacher report much. However, what it did say didn't impress me lol. "not a willing tackler" "poor tackling skills" "exposed by elite talent". Well, you cant coach speed so hopefully Pagano can coach up the rest lol. Oh well, I wont be critical of the choice yet. I wanted Shilique Calhoun and he was still sitting there at 57 and went to the Raiders about 8 or 9 picks later. This will be a pick to watch going down the road.

you can't coach 6"2' either

[theanarchist]

30 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

you can't coach 6"2' either

That's true. His size/speed is unmatched for the position. There are a lot of good atheletes on the track team but they can't play football...anyway, I'm not going to criticize. I hope it works out, if we have a guy 6-2 210 and runs 4.3 and can cover centerfield against guys like Hopklins, Gronk, Fuller, Sanders etc then I'll like the pick a lot.

[wig]

3 hours ago, Leon said:

sounds like PFF has something against us, plenty of site graded out 2nd day picks very highly

 

They don't have it out for anyone.  They base everything off of what they've done, while the last two picks were made best off of what they could be.  The draft needs to be a mix of both.

[coltsfanatic24]

Not surprised by these grades. Green was a reach and the OT is a project. The problem with the Colts from the 20 years I've been watching them is defense. They don't draft many great defensive players, too many offensive players are being drafted. Defense Wins championships. 

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, coltsfanatic24 said:

Not surprised by these grades. Green was a reach and the OT is a project. 

 

Yeah most of the reports coming out disagree with you on both of those points. 

[jvan1973]

Some see a glass half empty,    some see it half full.    I'm willing to wait and see and hope our scouts do more than Watch YouTube to "scout" players

[Gavin]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Some see a glass half empty,    some see it half full.    I'm willing to wait and see and hope our scouts do more than Watch YouTube to "scout" players

Whether or not you use youtube or record games or see them live scouts and fans have a chance to see the same things. So what's the difference? More scouts know what they are looking at then fans......But to deny that there are fans out there that know what they are looking at and to buy that every scout knows what he is looking at is wrong. There are fans that can put together a successful draft whether anyone wants to accept that or not

 

The biggest difference is scouts can do what fans cannot do and that's get the medical info and talking to many more people then just the kid himself

[jvan1973]

3 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Whether or not you use youtube or record games or see them live scouts and fans have a chance to see the same things. So what's the difference? More scouts know what they are looking at then fans......But to deny that there are fans out there that know what they are looking at and to buy that every scout knows what he is looking at is wrong. There are fans that can put together a successful draft whether anyone wants to accept that or not

 

The biggest difference is scouts can do what fans cannot do and that's get the medical info and talking to many more people then just the kid himself

There is a reason scouts are scouts and fans are fans.    These guys do nothing but scout players.    

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Green is a good pick.

 

Adams probably has 1-2 years left in the tank, and Geathers looks like a promising young safety.  Geathers' strength seems to be more 'in the box', where Green is more of a true Free Safety.  Green will immediately contribute on STs as a gunner (and possibly a returner), and he has experience playing in the slot.  I foresee him being used this next year like Geathers was last year -- coming in on certain packages to help in the slot, be a special teams beast, then becoming a starter in his second year and hopefully he (FS) and Geathers (SS) can help make up one of the leagues best safety duos for years to come.

 

Clark is also a good pick.

 

Grigson likes OL who are versatile.  Clark has ability to play both tackle spots and guard.  He is very quick/agile, big and strong.  He is a little raw, but he is also a 3rd round draft pick, who many thought should have been a late first rounder or 2nd rounder.  Having him and Reitz on the team (2 guys that can play 4 OL spots) will be very beneficial.  I expect him to come in and challenge for a starting spot right away, whether it be at RG or RT.

[Bluefire4]

Screw PFF. Screw Walter Football. If TJ Green is coached up correctly, he'll be a great piece we can matchup against the bigger TEs and faster slot guys.

[Gavin]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

There is a reason scouts are scouts and fans are fans.    These guys do nothing but scout players.    

And get it right roughly 50% of the time. Scouts are scouts because most scouts know what they are looking at.....some not so much. These people are still human and nowhere near perfect

[jvan1973]

Just now, Gavin said:

And get it right roughly 50% of the time. Scouts are scouts because most scouts know what they are looking at.....some not so much

They all know what they are looking at and looking for.   If they didn't,   they wouldn't have jobs in the NFL.   So let's say your 50% figure is correct.     A fan watching YouTube not at all knowing what kind of player the coaching staff is looking for,    even the best will be way under 50%

[Jason_]

25 minutes ago, Gavin said:

Whether or not you use youtube or record games or see them live scouts and fans have a chance to see the same things. So what's the difference? More scouts know what they are looking at then fans......But to deny that there are fans out there that know what they are looking at and to buy that every scout knows what he is looking at is wrong. There are fans that can put together a successful draft whether anyone wants to accept that or not

 

The biggest difference is scouts can do what fans cannot do and that's get the medical info and talking to many more people then just the kid himself

 

You're such a diva