Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[KB]

Just now, krunk said:

Is this the same thing you said when Jones was drafted? Ballard tends to hit on his lower round draft picks at times. Don't completely dismiss.

I won't completely dismiss him, but I'm not going to consider him the answer to our FS problem either. We still need to bring in a safety via draft, FA, or both.

I remember everything about Scott pointing to being a good special teams player last year. Nothing wrong with that, and maybe he can grow into more. I don't think he would be much better than Thomas on defense though.

[GoColts8818]

59 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Leonard wasn't coming off a major surgery when he signed his extention.  He was also All Pro after signing the extension 

Sssh facts don’t matter when you have an agenda to push.

[GoColts8818]

 

I’ll give Destin credit for apologizing and not just pretending like it didn’t happen.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

I’ll give Destin credit for apologizing and not just pretending like it didn’t happen.

Destin is a serious person and I have no doubt he had a source that was telling him that. He is still very young and green in that reporting business so he will learn with experience what sources to trust and in what types of cases... Good for him for admitting his mistake. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

51 minutes ago, stitches said:

Destin is a serious person and I have no doubt he had a source that was telling him that. He is still very young and green in that reporting business so he will learn with experience what sources to trust and in what types of cases... Good for him for admitting his mistake. 

Colts are not going to come out and say yeah they were close. The athletic said the same thing as Destin. Something happened that we will never know.   
 

Now one thing that does make me put the Ballard hate down for a second is the Chiefs don’t do much in free agency either. They draft really well and have good coaching. The reason they can let sneed go is they already have their replacement. 
 

The thing with chiefs right now is they have their QB so it covers up weaknesses. We will see if Richardson can get to that level. He he can colts see in good shape.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

13 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Colts are not going to come out and say yeah they were close. The athletic said the same thing as Destin. Something happened that we will never know.   
 

Now one thing that does make me put the Ballard hate down for a second is the Chiefs don’t do much in free agency either. They draft really well and have good coaching. The reason they can let sneed go is they already have their replacement. 
 

The thing with chiefs right now is they have their QB so it covers up weaknesses. We will see if Richardson can get to that level. He he can colts see in good shape.

The difference with Chiefs and Colts is that they've been coaching up  defensive players to play at very high level, which will probably never happen with Colts with the current staff.

 

If your strategy is draft and develop most of the time, then Develop, Ballard... Or find the right coaching staff who could coach up. Just drafting guys don't develop them on their own, unless their Football IQ is high - which doesn't show up in RAS sheet. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

26 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

The difference with Chiefs and Colts is that they've been coaching up  defensive players to play at very high level, which will probably never happen with Colts with the current staff.

 

If your strategy is draft and develop most of the time, then Develop, Ballard... Or find the right coaching staff who could coach up. Just drafting guys don't develop them on their own, unless their Football IQ is high - which doesn't show up in RAS sheet. 

Yeah I will agree with that. Their DC is do good.  I think this could be Bradley’s last season if we infuse this defense with more young talent (which means higher draft picks) and he still can’t get them to play better as a unit. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

On 3/23/2024 at 12:56 PM, John Waylon said:

Building through the draft is fine. 

 

…

 

If you can do it. 
 

Too many of Ballard’s day 1 and 2 picks are just absolute bombs. Theres some hits, lots of JAGs, and waaaay too many guys who don’t even become JAGs. The bad outweighs the good when it comes to Ballard in the first 3 rounds. 
 

He may be the best GM in the draft on day 3, but days 1 and 2 are suspect at best. 
 

His method of drafting guys with lime green RAS bars has produced mediocre results. 
 

We’ve seen what he can build through the draft. A team that sinks multiple picks in the first two days of the draft in the same room and STILL needs to do it again the next year because the need has not been filled. Now that list of rooms is growing. 
 

Can you give an example of a GM or two that consistently hits on day one and day two draft pics?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Looks like Steichen and Ballard have arrived at owners meetings. If like the past we should hear from them tomorrow.

[RollerColt]

12 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Looks like Steichen and Ballard have arrived at owners meetings. If like the past we should hear from them tomorrow.

Looking forward to the Rich Eisen show scrutinizing the coaches picture this year. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

4 hours ago, stitches said:

Destin is a serious person and I have no doubt he had a source that was telling him that. He is still very young and green in that reporting business so he will learn with experience what sources to trust and in what types of cases... Good for him for admitting his mistake. 

 

I'm glad Dustin manned up for being wrong, unlike some unnamed  GM's. Lol

[LJpalmbeacher2]

3 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

The difference with Chiefs and Colts is that they've been coaching up  defensive players to play at very high level, which will probably never happen with Colts with the current staff.

 

If your strategy is draft and develop most of the time, then Develop, Ballard... Or find the right coaching staff who could coach up. Just drafting guys don't develop them on their own, unless their Football IQ is high - which doesn't show up in RAS sheet. 

 

Bad organization's coach down players instead of coaching them up.

[DougDew]

 

55 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Can you give an example of a GM or two that consistently hits on day one and day two draft pics?

The GMs that have teams in the playoffs?  Its 12 a season now and used to be 10.  Unless they build via free agency, which would mean that building via the draft would be the wrong way. 

[Zoltan]

I swear every year everyone gets there hopes up and every year Ballard does Ballard. Where he doesn’t do big signings, he makes some small signings that are criticized. Then it works out. This year seems especially bad because even the local media seem emotional about the lack of big signings but I really don’t get it. 

[Patrick Miller]

I’m officially on the “I want Ballard gone” train. 7 years of sitting on his hands and making bad decisions is more than enough for me. 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, Zoltan said:

I swear every year everyone gets there hopes up and every year Ballard does Ballard. Where he doesn’t do big signings, he makes some small signings that are criticized. Then it works out. This year seems especially bad because even the local media seem emotional about the lack of big signings but I really don’t get it. 

What has worked out especially?

 

Saving cap space and being green in cap room?

 

That statement looks like most of his free agent signings - big or small - has worked out.

 

Or as if such signings has made this a strong team... There are numerous holes either in starters or depth, and his one FA signing is for a depth piece that came to be important last year when Stewart missed games - so, that's a pretty reactionary FA move by Ballard, he made this move because team struggled without depth, after it happened. Like how he went out paying for Matt Gay, after the team had kicker troubles the previous year. 

 

Great GMs who build great teams take proactive measures, and are being able to take steps to fill gaps with foresight, and those GMs who take reactive steps will keep making steps as a reaction after another hole opens up in the roster.

 

Ballard is making very much reactive measures, and restricts himself from making moves by having lot of constraints in his method. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

The GMs that have teams in the playoffs?  Its 12 a season now and used to be 10.  Unless they build via free agency, which would mean that building via the draft would be the wrong way. 

FWIW:   The NFL playoffs are 14 teams.  Been that way for 3-4 years now.   I’m NOT in favor of that, I prefer 12.   But owners wanted more teams in the playoffs so that they could say to their fans that at least they made the playoffs.  Honest, I read that when they made the switch.  
 

Go figure…. 

[Zoltan]

32 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

What has worked out especially?

 

Saving cap space and being green in cap room?

 

That statement looks like most of his free agent signings - big or small - has worked out.

 

Or as if such signings has made this a strong team... There are numerous holes either in starters or depth, and his one FA signing is for a depth piece that came to be important last year when Stewart missed games - so, that's a pretty reactionary FA move by Ballard, he made this move because team struggled without depth, after it happened. Like how he went out paying for Matt Gay, after the team had kicker troubles the previous year. 

 

Great GMs who build great teams take proactive measures, and are being able to take steps to fill gaps with foresight, and those GMs who take reactive steps will keep making steps as a reaction after another hole opens up in the roster.

 

Ballard is making very much reactive measures, and restricts himself from making moves by having lot of constraints in his method. 

I flat out just disagree, we actually have really good depth on this team in almost every position except safety and really only need to add one player here or there to add competition. I wouldn’t say Ballard is reactionary either, I would say it’s purposeful because each move is done with great thought and vetting, hence why we have had great success finding good players in late rounds. He does though is trust his young talent to develop for example when Stewart went down they had Eric Johnson as the run stopper but it didn’t work out. As for Kicker don’t you remember them bringing multiple kickers in always trying to improve the position, it’s actually a hard position to fill and when he had the opportunity to finally fix it he did. 
 

You could even say they had the foresight to convert R. Harrison to a LB because they knew the current LB group was bad in coverage. 

[GoColts8818]

I always love when fans of other teams try to talk to Colts fans like they know more about the Colts than Colts fans…

[JediXMan]

Is there some data on some DBs that came back from achilles injuries and played just as good? 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, JediXMan said:

Is there some data on some DBs that came back from achilles injuries and played just as good? 

https://www.healio.com/news/orthopedics/20180323/most-football-players-returned-to-nfl-after-achilles-tendon-repair
 

Quote

About 73% of players returned to the NFL after Achilles tendon repair, according to a recently published study in Foot and Ankle International.

“Achilles tendon injuries in the NFL are common season-ending injuries that require a surgical repair,” Joshua D. Harris, MD, told Healio.com/Orthopedics.
 

“Our study of 95 NFL players showed that it was also a career-ending injury in nearly 28% of those analyzed. Although postoperative performance was worse in running backs and linebackers (vs. pre-injury), there was no difference in postoperative performance or number of games played for any position (with the exception of linebackers) compared to rigorously matched control players in the league.”

 

Harris and colleagues studied 95 NFL players who underwent Achilles tendon repair and controls who were matched for age, position played, experience in years and performance. Investigators collected demographic and performance data. 
 

Results showed that at a mean of 339.8 days after surgery, 71 NFL players were able to return to sport. Investigators noted 32% of repairs were performed during training camp or in the preseason.

 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

13 hours ago, w87r said:

But loves draft picks and his own guys, but never know, maybe he was high on Cline when he came out?

 

 

Maybe he would consider #151 for #157 + Cline?

Vikings Front Office wouldn't even care if he doesn't report for camp, there won't be any missing person report with police if he is gone somewhere.

 

It has been two years since the injury recovery and he only gets to the field if only special Teams coordinator feels bad for him and gives him some 10 snaps on game day.

 

All this for a first round draft pick.

 

If you say you're giving a 5th round draft pick swap for him, they'd be surprised if he's still in the team. 

[cdgacoltsfan]

11 hours ago, DougDew said:

 

The GMs that have teams in the playoffs?  Its 12 a season now and used to be 10.  Unless they build via free agency, which would mean that building via the draft would be the wrong way. 

I'm looking for GMs that as you said, consistently hit on first and second round pics. Please supply names and the pics.

[Nadine]

This turned into another Ballard thread.  In order to keep the thread on topic, all posts to this thread will be queued for approval

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

I'm looking for GMs that as you said, consistently hit on first and second round pics. Please supply names and the pics.

I didn't say that.  It was John Waylon. I butted in to help you understand the concept from the perspective of building through the draft.  If you did, I don't think that you would have asked the question.  But , the word "consistently" can have varied meanings?

 

If we are going to separate out 1st and 2nd round picks from the rest of the resources, then I guess the entire bucket of resources a team would have to build a team would be.

 

1.  Drafting 1st and 2nd round picks.

2. Trading 1st and 2nd round picks.3

3. Drafting or trading all other picks.

4. Signing FAs.

 

I would strongly assume that the GMs that perform 1 and 2 effectively would have their teams in the playoffs.  I doubt that the playoff teams would use method's 3 and 4 as the measure by which their teams get into the playoffs.  If so, then it would seem that signing FAs would be the preferred way to build a team.   

 

Just off the top.  SF used 1st and 2nd for Aiyuk and Deebo, and traded a 2nd for McCaffrey?  Philly used a 2nd for Hurts and used  pretty high 1sts for Brown and Smith?  LAR traded its 1st round QB to DET who traded its 1st round QB to LAR.  LAR used a 1st for the best DT in the NL at one point, Donald?  MIA drafted Tua, and used a first on Hill and a 1st or second on Waddle?

 

When was the last time the Colts used something higher than a third round pick for a QB?  Wentz was a 2nd?  How many 1sts have the Colts used for dynamic playmakers that handle the ball?  IIRC, AR is the first time in 7 years?  

[tfunky14]

Hmm. Interesting the Colts are not on this list since most on here think the Colts should have been more aggressive. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/10-nfl-teams-strong-draft-100946210.html

[shasta519]

On 3/21/2024 at 3:54 PM, dw49 said:

I must have read this over 100 times in the last few years. It is posted over and over during the FA signing period .  The post usually read something like this... " we didn't pursue those top tier CBs as Ballard prefers to build through the draft."  It just occurred to me that that makes no sense. What does how you spend your cap money , have to do with "building through the draft. " Yeah .. now and then a team trades picks to acquire an elite player.The Rams did so previous their last SB . But for the most part , every team values their draft picks. I don't see how Ballard's free agent approach has much to do at all with how he values his draft picks. 

Other teams do value their picks. But often they are also more selective on who they retain and typically more aggressive in bringing in outside talent. 
 

For me, Ballard’s “building through the draft” philosophy sort of breaks down into a few key components:

 

1. Draft, develop and retain your own players, even to 3rd contracts. This build a strong culture and locker room…and fosters a sense of loyalty to the org. 
 

The issue here is that you can end up paying more money for the same foundation of players. If you are a SB team (like Polian-era Colts), this might make sense, as you would want to extend the window as much as possible. But when you’re an average team, it’s hard to get your team to the next level doing this. Plus, eventually those drafted and developed players get old, as we even saw with those Polian teams. 

 

2. Use draft to plug existing holes on roster. This often results in Day 3 picks starting/playing as rookies (as opposed to a vet FA), unless an established player has already been retained at that position.
 

The issue here is that while they gain valuable experience and it’s more cost-effective, it can also be to the detriment of team performance, as we saw last season in the secondary. 
 

3. Draft and develop better than everybody else. This is meant to give them a competitive advantage and help them win on the margins. 

 

The issue with this is it’s hard to draft better than everybody else. But also, in the NFL, you can’t really win on the margins. It’s only a 17-game season…there is just too much variance to gain a true competitive advantage like having a higher floor. Games are typically won by high-impact talent and playmakers, not having more above-average players.
 

Ballard’s approach isn’t revolutionary. And it has proven to be successful for some teams. But for whatever reason, he hasn’t been able to replicate that success. And he doesn’t really seem to be open to adapting. So my biggest issue is that the process has seemed to become more important than the results.

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

Games are typically won by high-impact talent and playmakers, not having more above-average players.
 

Ballard’s approach isn’t revolutionary. And it has proven to be successful for some teams. But for whatever reason, he hasn’t been able to replicate that success.

I think the first sentence answers the question that's imbedded in the last sentence.  The draft picks have to have a good return on investment.   I think ROI is measured over a 3 to 5 years timeframe.

[Superman]

12 hours ago, RollerColt said:

https://www.healio.com/news/orthopedics/20180323/most-football-players-returned-to-nfl-after-achilles-tendon-repair
 

 

 

I'd like to see what this looks like over the last 3-4 years. It seems like players are coming back faster from Achilles injuries. When we signed Fisher, I was very bearish on his ability to be ready early in the season, pointing to this specific study. Fisher got hurt in the conference championship, and I think he only missed the first two games of the next season, so eight months? I think his lateral movement suffered, but for such a big person to recover from an Achilles in that short time frame is super impressive, and it indicates that the procedures and protocols have improved in recent years. There have been other players who have recovered quickly as well.

 

Not predicting anything for Flowers, just saying I think it's possible the recovery times for Achilles injuries has trended shorter since 2018 when this study was done.

[shasta519]

22 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

I’ll give Destin credit for apologizing and not just pretending like it didn’t happen.

I don’t know.
 

I’ve tried the “sorry I told you something would happen but it didn’t and sorry you’re upset because of that” apology before with my wife. It did not go over well. And there is a similar amount of accountability in this carefully-worded tweet from Destin.

 

Either his source was wrong or he was wrong for jumping the gun to be first. Neither are addressed in this tweet. 

[John Waylon]

19 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Can you give an example of a GM or two that consistently hits on day one and day two draft pics?

Just go look at our own list of misses and flat-out whiffs. It’ll provide nearly as much work as tracking what the rest of the league has done over that same period and you’ll have the advantage, at least in theory, of being familiar with the source material. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I don’t know.
 

I’ve tried the “sorry I told you something would happen but it didn’t and sorry you’re upset because of that” apology before with my wife. It did not go over well. And there is a similar amount of accountability in this carefully-worded tweet from Destin.

 

Either his source was wrong or he was wrong for jumping the gun to be first. Neither are addressed in this tweet. 

Do you ever think he was right they were putting final details and something happened last minute. Maybe the titans jumped in with a bigger offer. 

[GoColts8818]

12 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I don’t know.
 

I’ve tried the “sorry I told you something would happen but it didn’t and sorry you’re upset because of that” apology before with my wife. It did not go over well. And there is a similar amount of accountability in this carefully-worded tweet from Destin.

 

Either his source was wrong or he was wrong for jumping the gun to be first. Neither are addressed in this tweet. 

He does say he will learn from this and use it to improve himself as a reporter in the future.  I take that as him saying I’ll do a better job making sure I report things that are 100% correct in the future.

 

At least he acknowledged it, a lot of times when people are wrong or say something incorrect they just ignore it and move on like it was never said in the first place.  
 

It is what it is at this point.  Colts didn’t get Sneed he can’t go back in time and change the first tweet which got people so excited.  You just gotta move on and either trust him or not which is up each person who sees his reports at the time.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

20 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Do you ever think he was right they were putting final details and something happened last minute. Maybe the titans jumped in with a bigger offer. 

Yeah, that's how it sounds like when he says, "I've learned how fast things change during the off-season". 

[RollerColt]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'd like to see what this looks like over the last 3-4 years. It seems like players are coming back faster from Achilles injuries. When we signed Fisher, I was very bearish on his ability to be ready early in the season, pointing to this specific study. Fisher got hurt in the conference championship, and I think he only missed the first two games of the next season, so eight months? I think his lateral movement suffered, but for such a big person to recover from an Achilles in that short time frame is super impressive, and it indicates that the procedures and protocols have improved in recent years. There have been other players who have recovered quickly as well.

 

Not predicting anything for Flowers, just saying I think it's possible the recovery times for Achilles injuries has trended shorter since 2018 when this study was done.

I’d say just over 10 years ago a torn Achilles was considered a career ender. Unreal how much sports medicine has changed since then. 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Do you ever think he was right they were putting final details and something happened last minute. Maybe the titans jumped in with a bigger offer. 

Was the deal done? No. 
 

He tried to be first and either got played or got unlucky.

 

Doesnt matter…but this “apology”

tweet sounds like a lawyer wrote it. I give him zero credit for admitting he was wrong. He’s spinning it like he was the victim…and the upset fans are victims of the same. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, shasta519 said:

Was the deal done? No. 
 

He tried to be first and either got played or got unlucky.

 

Doesnt matter…but this “apology”

tweet sounds like a lawyer wrote it. I give him zero credit for admitting he was wrong. He’s spinning it like he was the victim…and the upset fans are victims of the same. 

He never said it was done lol. I don’t know why people keep saying that.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He does say he will learn from this and use it to improve himself as a reporter in the future.  I take that as him saying I’ll do a better job making sure I report things that are 100% correct in the future.

 

At least he acknowledged it, a lot of times when people are wrong or say something incorrect they just ignore it and move on like it was never said in the first place.  
 

It is what it is at this point.  Colts didn’t get Sneed he can’t go back in time and change the first tweet which got people so excited.  You just gotta move on and either trust him or not which is up each person who sees his reports at the time.

True. But those are standard talking points for Destin. That’s fine. Never thought he was reliable. Just found the support for him to be goofy. 

[shasta519]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

He never said it was done lol. I don’t know why people keep saying that.

He said it was being finalized and heavily implied it was going to get done. He thought he had the scoop. If it had gotten done, he’d be doing victory laps. It didn’t. That’s the game. That’s why Schefter and Rappaport are who they are. 

 

His mea culpa is weak. He deserves any criticism he gets. And he will move on from it. And hopefully he does learn and get better. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

His mea culpa is weak. He deserves any criticism he gets. And he will move on from it. And hopefully he does learn and get better. 

 

I would think fans would be more judicious about who/what they latch on to moving forward.