Jonathan Taylor comments on his contract/Request trade (Merge)

[CR91]

7 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Why would Colts want a RB as old as A Jones at this stage. Colts aren't competing for anything this year. Needs to be some combination if young players and/or high draft picks.

 

Better then nothing at this point. He's 28 and already under contract.

[esmort]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

What it is is terribly insulting. Might also speak to how Taylor feels valued by the Colts. Whether we agree with how Taylor has handled all this or the Colts…it was a horrible comment and that is just publicly what Irsay has said. Who knows what was said privately…but if he is that insensitive in public…we’ll make that what you will. Taylor now feels unwelcome, undervalued, and offended by the Colts. So he demanded a trade. Lots of issues on both sides of this thing. You don’t hear the Chiefs owner coming out and saying if Chris Jones is out of the league tomorrow no one will miss him…he is doing the same thing holding out.

 

He needs thicker skin. Always hear players asking for more money being like "it's just business".  Business says he is not worth that much to the Colts in this stage of the rebuild. His value is play out his contract cheap and maybe sign team friendly deal, or play this year and give is comp pick when he signs somewhere else after contract, or his value in trade. Don't care about his feelings..."it's just business".

[esmort]

3 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Better then nothing at this point. He's 28 and already under contract.

 

Nope, wouldn't even consider it. Old RBs a dime a dozen. Would rather it be Doubs or Reed and a pick.

[Colt.45]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What it is is terribly insulting. Might also speak to how Taylor feels valued by the Colts. Whether we agree with how Taylor has handled all this or the Colts…it was a horrible comment and that is just publicly what Irsay has said. Who knows what was said privately…but if he is that insensitive in public…we’ll make that what you will. Taylor now feels unwelcome, undervalued, and offended by the Colts. So he demanded a trade. Lots of issues on both sides of this thing. You don’t hear the Chiefs owner coming out and saying if Chris Jones is out of the league tomorrow no one will miss him…he is doing the same thing holding out.

 

Irsay isn't eloquent but Andy Reid said similar about Chris Jones i.e. whether he shows up or not, the game goes on. That's pretty much on par with the sentiment Irsay was making i.e. whether you're here or not, alive or not, the game keeps going. Andy Reid made his comment not too long ago

[ProblChld32]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

would have loved it if we were to Fleece Waddle from up under Miami. 

[esmort]

Just now, ProblChld32 said:

would have loved it if we were to Fleece Waddle from up under Miami. 

 

I would be surprised if they let Waddle go when Hill already announced when he's retiring.

[ProblChld32]

3 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

I would be surprised if they let Waddle go when Hill already announced when he's retiring.

Miami is undoubtedly in a win now mode, stranger things have happened during those times. 

[ShuteAt168]

Will CB presser be streamed anywhere?

[BProland85]

7 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

would have loved it if we were to Fleece Waddle from up under Miami. 

I don’t think it would be fleecing them. You think JT is some scrub? He was the best RB in football in 2021 and is only 24. 

[Superman]

27 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

Yes because it’s Taylor. He’s been a great Colts up until this offseason and it’s a minor injury as far as we know. If it was Pittman in the same situation I’d say no. But I’d say it’s worth the gamble for the best offensive player this team has had since Luck.

 

I think any player has to show up and cooperate before he gets a new contract. That's a baseline requirement. And I think the way he's played this has been mostly in an effort to force a trade, so there's no point in the Colts negotiating against themselves if he won't even pass a physical.

 

Quote

 

I also did read the article where he could be suspended, which would result in a loss of money for him, but would probably play right into his hand.

 

Him and his agent definitely played this wrong as well. That I can agree on. His agent should’ve tried to get him a 1 year (fully guaranteed)prove it deal  like what Barkley and Jacobs got. That way if he’s healthy and performs you can extend him after the season is over. Or if he gets injured again, JT gets let’s say 12 million, but it’s only for this season and you can draft another RB in 2024.

 

 

I don't know if suspending him would play into his hand. Maybe it gains him some sympathy, but the Colts still have all the cards. 

 

And I wouldn't have offered him anything like what Barkley and Jacobs got. They were on the tag, the team had already committed to paying the tag amount, and came up slightly for incentives. The Colts would be tripling Taylor's pay to get him into that same range, and he hasn't even finished his rookie contract yet. I dislike the way teams use the tag as a matter of principle, but expecting a player to finish his rookie contract isn't outrageous.

[esmort]

7 minutes ago, ProblChld32 said:

Miami is undoubtedly in a win now mode, stranger things have happened during those times. 

 

Definitely a possibility...I think that's the type of trade you get if they are into season and think that's the final piece. Id give them JT and Pittman for Waddle/1st

[Solid84]

32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

What it is is terribly insulting. Might also speak to how Taylor feels valued by the Colts. Whether we agree with how Taylor has handled all this or the Colts…it was a horrible comment and that is just publicly what Irsay has said. Who knows what was said privately…but if he is that insensitive in public…we’ll make that what you will. Taylor now feels unwelcome, undervalued, and offended by the Colts. So he demanded a trade. Lots of issues on both sides of this thing. You don’t hear the Chiefs owner coming out and saying if Chris Jones is out of the league tomorrow no one will miss him…he is doing the same thing holding out.

Uh, Andy Reid said the same thing about Chris Jones?

 

JT needs to put in his big boy pants. 

[ProblChld32]

4 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

I don’t think it would be fleecing them. You think JT is some scrub? He was the best RB in football in 2021 and is only 24. 

Where in the hell did I say he was a scrub? I never said JT was a scrub. Secondly if we are able to get rid of a player that doesn’t want to be here and get a premium impact player in return and potentially an additional pick out of it. That IMO would be fleecing them. Jaylen waddle has put together two back to back 1000 yard seasons, one of them playing opposite of Tyreek Hill. He had 6 TDs his first season and 9 his second. Michael Pittmans best season was 1082 yards and 6 TDs. Waddle is a playmaker that this offense could definitely use. RBs is a DYING position and with AR under center JTs Carrie’s would undoubtedly deminish. He is a home run threat but he is most certainly replaceable in this offensive scheme. If you’re going to attack me atleast come correct. 

[BProland85]

7 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

Definitely a possibility...I think that's the type of trade you get if they are into season and think that's the final piece. Id give them JT and Pittman for Waddle/1st

I’d take Waddle and their 2024 1st for JT and Pittman. 

[dgambill]

30 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

He needs thicker skin. Always hear players asking for more money being like "it's just business".  Business says he is not worth that much to the Colts in this stage of the rebuild. His value is play out his contract cheap and maybe sign team friendly deal, or play this year and give is comp pick when he signs somewhere else after contract, or his value in trade. Don't care about his feelings..."it's just business".

Maybe…certainly thicker skin can help…but in general…humans like to feel valued. They also like to work for companies and with people that value them…not just monetarily but show that in other ways too. I just don’t think Irsays comments helped our cause.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Maybe…certainly thicker skin can help…but in general…humans like to feel valued. They also like to work for companies and with people that value them…not just monetarily but show that in other ways too. I just don’t think Irsays comments helped our cause.

 

Irsay's comments didn't help the cause, but if you think Taylor's actions were prompted by Irsay's comments, I'd say you have things backward there.

[dgambill]

27 minutes ago, Colt.45 said:

 

Irsay isn't eloquent but Andy Reid said similar about Chris Jones i.e. whether he shows up or not, the game goes on. That's pretty much on par with the sentiment Irsay was making i.e. whether you're here or not, alive or not, the game keeps going. Andy Reid made his comment not too long ago

But that’s the thing…the small difference in what someone says and how they say it and when they say it effects the what is being said tremendously.

[esmort]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Maybe…certainly thicker skin can help…but in general…humans like to feel valued. They also like to work for companies and with people that value them…not just monetarily but show that in other ways too. I just don’t think Irsays comments helped out cause.

 

But if had not tried to go for the big pay day early, he would have got to remain feeling valued, and talked up by everyone...he wanted paid more.

[dgambill]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Irsay's comments didn't help the cause, but if you think Taylor's actions were prompted by Irsay's comments, I'd say you have things backward there.

Irsays comments started before that one as well. But yes JT was already holding out and wanting traded…but if your goal is to get your best player and reconcile the relationship I’m pretty sure that comment didn’t bring the sides closer together. Players demand trades/wash their social media etc all the time and later work it out (as it’s a lot of times posturing). To say all along you want JT to be a Colt and want him here long term but talk that way…it’s contradictory to your goal. It also undoubtedly made the situation worse…and in return our team worse…as clearly we are not better off without JT especially if we don’t get compensation.

[dgambill]

7 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

But if had not tried to go for the big pay day early, he would have got to remain feeling valued, and talked up by everyone...he wanted paid more.

Wanting paid more is not the problem in any of this situation. Holding out is not a problem…it’s a bargaining tool…and a ton of players use it every year in negotiating. The reactions on both sides to that have been both poor imo and the problem. Again imo….I know mine differs from others.

[Colt.45]

10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

But that’s the thing…the small difference in what someone says and how they say it and when they say it effects the what is being said tremendously.

I live in KC and stay very plugged in with football. The comment raised as much questions locally as Irsay's have done in Colts nation and nationally but Andy Reid gets a benefit Irsay doesnt.

 

I understand fully what you're saying. In this instance, it wasnt the case at all. Lets not forget that in Jones' case, that's a top 2 player at his position, with multiple years of influence, at a highly valued position. In KC, the sentiment is Chris Jones might never play another down for the Chiefs. 

*when you have a QB, you can do things like this and look like a genius.

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Irsays comments started before that one as well. But yes JT was already holding out and wanting traded…but if your goal is to get your best player and reconcile the relationship I’m pretty sure that comment didn’t bring the sides closer together. Players demand trades/wash their social media etc all the time and later work it out (as it’s a lot of times posturing). To say all along you want JT to be a Colt and want him here long term but talk that way…it’s contradictory to your goal. It also undoubtedly made the situation worse…and in return our team worse…as clearly we are not better off without JT especially if we don’t get compensation.

 

I think this is blame shifting. Irsay made that comment in August. Taylor didn't participate in OTAs during April, May, and June. The Colts asked him to come to camp to get the ankle checked out, which should have been a piece of cake. He refused. They expected he would clear his physical and be on the practice field, and he surprised them by not passing the physical. Somewhere in there, he requested a trade. 

 

And after all that, Irsay made a comment that was poorly articulated, and probably better left unsaid to begin with. And you're saying that Irsay's comment made things worse. They were already pretty bad, and almost entirely due to Taylor's actions.

[esmort]

5 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Wanting paid more is not the problem in any of this situation. Holding out is not a problem…it’s a bargaining tool…and a ton of players use it every year in negotiating. The reactions on both sides to that have been both poor imo and the problem. Again imo….I know mine differs from others.

 

It is used by a bunch of players and although often works out fine, it also frequently ends up hurting the relationship between the player and the organization and many times even hurts the players image/popularity with fans. So while yes it is a bargaining chip many players use the player also need to ge prepared for the repercussions if it doesn't work out; especially when they don't have the leverage.

[RollerColt]

Just now, Superman said:

 

I think this is blame shifting. Irsay made that comment in August. Taylor didn't participate in OTAs during April, May, and June. The Colts asked him to come to camp to get the ankle checked out, which should have been a piece of cake. He refused. They expected he would clear his physical and be on the practice field, and he surprised them by not passing the physical. Somewhere in there, he requested a trade. 

 

And after all that, Irsay made a comment that was poorly articulated, and probably better left unsaid to begin with. And you're saying that Irsay's comment made things worse. They were already pretty bad, and almost entirely due to Taylor's actions.

And remember, Irsay made that comment after meeting with Taylor in his mobile RV unit thing. Obviously the meeting didn't go well and Jim was frustrated. 

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I think this is blame shifting. Irsay made that comment in August. Taylor didn't participate in OTAs during April, May, and June. The Colts asked him to come to camp to get the ankle checked out, which should have been a piece of cake. He refused. They expected he would clear his physical and be on the practice field, and he surprised them by not passing the physical. Somewhere in there, he requested a trade. 

 

And after all that, Irsay made a comment that was poorly articulated, and probably better left unsaid to begin with. And you're saying that Irsay's comment made things worse. They were already pretty bad, and almost entirely due to Taylor's actions.

There are varying degrees to a holdout…and Irsay had already made comments previous than just that one. What made this holdout more contentious wasnt only JT…the Colts made this worse as well. I’m not going to place all the blame on JT. Like I said lots of teams have holdouts…it’s very common. This one took a strong left turn when? Again…JT and his agent started us down this road…the Colts haven’t done much imo to fix it….and in the end..as a paying consumer I’m left unhappy because in the end I just want the best product we can put on the field and that isn’t happening. So yeah…I put it on both sides. Always said that but apparently If I’m not lock step in support of Irsay and the team my opinion isn’t valid.

[dgambill]

22 minutes ago, esmort said:

 

It is used by a bunch of players and although often works out fine, it also frequently ends up hurting the relationship between the player and the organization and many times even hurts the players image/popularity with fans. So while yes it is a bargaining chip many players use the player also need to ge prepared for the repercussions if it doesn't work out; especially when they don't have the leverage.

I agree 100%…And no different for the team as well. Their actions have reprocussions…there are two sides to every coin. 

[iuswingman]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

There are varying degrees to a holdout…and Irsay had already made comments previous than just that one. What made this holdout more contentious wasnt only JT…the Colts made this worse as well. I’m not going to place all the blame on JT. Like I said lots of teams have holdouts…it’s very common. This one took a strong left turn when? Again…JT and his agent started us down this road…the Colts haven’t done much imo to fix it….and in the end..as a paying consumer I’m left unhappy because in the end I just want the best product we can put on the field and that isn’t happening. So yeah…I put it on both sides. Always said that but apparently If I’m not lock step in support of Irsay and the team my opinion isn’t valid.

No one said your opinion isn't valid.  People have a right to disagree with your opinion though.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, dgambill said:

There are varying degrees to a holdout…and Irsay had already made comments previous than just that one. What made this holdout more contentious wasnt only JT…the Colts made this worse as well. I’m not going to place all the blame on JT. Like I said lots of teams have holdouts…it’s very common. This one took a strong left turn when? Again…JT and his agent started us down this road…the Colts haven’t done much imo to fix it….and in the end..as a paying consumer I’m left unhappy because in the end I just want the best product we can put on the field and that isn’t happening. So yeah…I put it on both sides. Always said that but apparently If I’m not lock step in support of Irsay and the team my opinion isn’t valid.

 

I'm not trying to invalidate your opinion. I agree that Irsay shouldn't have said it. But I disagree that Irsay's comments are what caused things to get worse. They were already bad, and it just wasn't common knowledge yet.

 

To the bolded, this took a strong left turn when Taylor didn't pass his physical. That was before Irsay's comments.

 

I get being frustrated as a fan, and I agree that Irsay has said some things he probably shouldn't have. But I think there's little to no blame on the Colts' side for what has happened in this situation. 

[dgambill]

Just now, iuswingman said:

No one said your opinion isn't valid.  People have a right to disagree with your opinion though.

True….maybe I shouldn’t say not valid but it does seem people aren’t willing to look at both sides objectively. It’s like they let their anger get the best of them…there are two sides to the negotiation and I don’t think either has done well…but I don’t need to keep saying that. I don’t need to try to convince anyone…just thought the discussion could use more objectivity. It’s like a mob of anger at JT…and  I’m saying maybe directing that at both parties would be more appropriate.

[Superman]

Just now, dgambill said:

True….maybe I shouldn’t say not valid but it does seem people aren’t willing to look at both sides objectively. It’s like they let their anger get the best of them…there are two sides to the negotiation and I don’t think either has done well…but I don’t need to keep saying that. I don’t need to try to convince anyone…just thought the discussion could use more objectivity. It’s like a mob of anger at JT…and  I’m saying maybe directing that at both parties would be more appropriate.

 

To be clear, I'm definitely not angry with anyone. I view it as business. But I do think Taylor has misplayed his hand here.

[pkbrux]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

And I wouldn't have offered him anything like what Barkley and Jacobs got. They were on the tag, the team had already committed to paying the tag amount, and came up slightly for incentives. The Colts would be tripling Taylor's pay to get him into that same range, and he hasn't even finished his rookie contract yet. I dislike the way teams use the tag as a matter of principle, but expecting a player to finish his rookie contract isn't outrageous.

 

Thank you! Its been driving me crazy seeing people equating the Barkley/Jacobs situations with Taylor. Barkley and Jacobs finished their rookie contracts, were given the tag and were unsigned. The teams and the RBs negotiated the little bumps on 1 year deals to get them into camp.

 

Taylor has not finished his rookie contract, he shouldn't be given a single penny more for this season. I am usually all for the players doing what they need to do to get paid since they have such a short shelf life, but not before you finish your rookie deal. That is the bare minimum all players have to do, finish your rookie contract and then do what you need to do.

[pkbrux]

41 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Wanting paid more is not the problem in any of this situation. Holding out is not a problem…it’s a bargaining tool…and a ton of players use it every year in negotiating. The reactions on both sides to that have been both poor imo and the problem. Again imo….I know mine differs from others.

 

When was the last time a player held out while still on their rookie contract? Serious question because I can't remember one in the last ten years? Since the rookie wage scale came in, usually the earliest you get a hold out is right after their rookie deal is over and they had the franchise tag placed on them (like Barkley/Jacobs this year)

[runthepost]

1 hour ago, BProland85 said:

I don’t think it would be fleecing them. You think JT is some scrub? He was the best RB in football in 2021 and is only 24. 

RB aren’t as valuable as WR and aren’t really needed to win. It’s been years since a team won with an elite RB same can’t be said for receivers

[BProland85]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

To be clear, I'm definitely not angry with anyone. I view it as business. But I do think Taylor has misplayed his hand here.

JT and his agent certainly went about it the wrong way. In that sense I am angry with JT and his representation. 

[BProland85]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/report-in-jonathan-taylor-talks-colts-wanted-jaylen-waddle-from-dolphins
 

Now if Ballard was asking for Waddle and more in return for JT then he was too unrealistic. I think he should’ve seen if the Dolphins would’ve entertained a straight up swap or given back to Miami a 4th rounder along with JT for Waddle. 

[iuswingman]

15 minutes ago, dgambill said:

True….maybe I shouldn’t say not valid but it does seem people aren’t willing to look at both sides objectively. It’s like they let their anger get the best of them…there are two sides to the negotiation and I don’t think either has done well…but I don’t need to keep saying that. I don’t need to try to convince anyone…just thought the discussion could use more objectivity. It’s like a mob of anger at JT…and  I’m saying maybe directing that at both parties would be more appropriate.

 

Based on what we know, I would says it is 80% taylor's fault / 20% Colts fault.  Of course, as kids would say, it's 100% taylor started it lol.

 

People have trouble seeing things from Taylor's perspective because he's a millionaire complaining about how much he gets paid.   So the majority of people are not going to feel sorry for him.

 

Furthermore, he is under contract still.  I don't really care how common it is for players to throw a hissy fit before their contract is over but for most of America, contracts are generally binding.  

 

[esmort]

9 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I agree 100%…And no different for the team as well. Their actions have reprocussions…there are two sides to every coin. 

 

Yes there will be some anger at the team as well. But the the organization is better suited to weather some bad feelings. There are other players under their banner that fans like, they will bring in new and exciting players that fans can get behind. The Colts as a team are the constant, individual player and his popularity is fleeting. Its much easier to for fans to toss aside their devotion to a player then their team. With the exception of a few truly great generational players the player (even very good ones) are going to risk sustaining the most damage both reputationally and financially when these sort of disputes happen. JT would have served himself better by not trying to play hardball. I feel like he would have been taken care of if he had played it straight. Maybe not to the level of compensation he was rumored to be asking, but I do believe he would have been given a fair offer.

[chad72]

20 minutes ago, pkbrux said:

 

When was the last time a player held out while still on their rookie contract? Serious question because I can't remember one in the last ten years? Since the rookie wage scale came in, usually the earliest you get a hold out is right after their rookie deal is over and they had the franchise tag placed on them (like Barkley/Jacobs this year)

 

Chris Johnson did, with the Titans. Zeke did, with the Cowboys.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

JT and his agent certainly went about it the wrong way. In that sense I am angry with JT and his representation. 

 

I think his agent is a jerk with an axe to grind, I definitely don't like what I know about him. And I think there's a Miami agenda somewhere in there.

 

But I think it's business. Maybe I'm ignoring the obvious, but I feel like if the Colts had been open to contract negotiations over the summer, Taylor's side wouldn't have taken as hard of a line. But I understand why the Colts didn't want to make an offer, and I agree with their decision, so it is what is is. And at the same time, I understand why Taylor doesn't like it.

[Superman]

22 minutes ago, pkbrux said:

 

When was the last time a player held out while still on their rookie contract? Serious question because I can't remember one in the last ten years? Since the rookie wage scale came in, usually the earliest you get a hold out is right after their rookie deal is over and they had the franchise tag placed on them (like Barkley/Jacobs this year)

 

Technically not a hold out because they aren't under contract yet, but several players have declined to sign the rookie contract due to guarantees and/or language. Joey Bosa was a big one, he missed almost all of training camp.

 

Since then, I think any rookie "hold out" has been over the summer, and is resolved by the time camp starts.