Pierce

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

First all Cupp  is on IR so he is getting the opportunity in the slot. Second he has  a hall of fame QB throwing to him.

[Yoshinator]

30 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

First all Cupp  is on IR so he is getting the opportunity in the slot. Second he has  a hall of fame QB throwing to him.

Downs is also getting the opportunity in the slot. He beat out McKenzie. Pierce is the no2. The TEs are doing very little. The only real competition for receptions is Pittman. It's the same old same old every year with the WRs. 

 

Stafford is a mid-tier QB now. Puka is elevating Stafford, as well as Tutu Atwell, who also looks good. Otherwise it'd be Jefferson and Showerenk, who are doing terrible early. I'm tired of the excuses, I just want to see some of these draft picks hit now that we have Richardson.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

I think some NFL franchises have coaches or scouts who just are able to find the diamond in the rough in certain positions. Teams like Seahawks or 49ers continue to unearth Pro Bowl calibre DBs on day 3 of the draft for many years, even through head coach changes.

 

Same with Vikings and WRs. At the same time, Vikings can't draft quality CBs even after coaching changes. 

 

I guess some scouting departments excel at some positions and shoots their foot continuously in some other positions.

 

I don't know if you can call one particular scouting department that could excel drafting well in all position groups, that'd be a greatness waiting to happen.

 

And, one more thing, not just scouts, their collaboration with coaches and GM and in some cases owners, having a similar vision without pulling the cart in each other's direction, is also important. 

[Yoshinator]

2 minutes ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

I think some NFL franchises have coaches or scouts who just are able to find the diamond in the rough in certain positions. Teams like Seahawks or 49ers continue to unearth Pro Bowl calibre DBs on day 3 of the draft for many years, even through head coach changes.

 

Same with Vikings and WRs. At the same time, Vikings can't draft quality CBs even after coaching changes. 

 

I guess some scouting departments excel at some positions and shoots their foot continuously in some other positions.

 

I don't know if you can call one particular scouting department that could excel drafting well in all position groups, that'd be a greatness waiting to happen.

 

And, one more thing, not just scouts, their collaboration with coaches and GM and in some cases owners, having a similar vision without pulling the cart in each other's direction, is also important. 

I guess a possible solution to this would be to poach a scout from another team that specializes in a position we are weak in (WR) and see if that can strengthen the scout team at that position. Of course, generally, you have to give a promotion and it can't be a lateral signing from another team, but I'm sure there's guys we could use from other teams that we could probably get here to work with us. I think this scout team and Ballard would be enticing to work with.

[VikingsFanInChennai]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

I guess a possible solution to this would be to poach a scout from another team that specializes in a position we are weak in (WR) and see if that can strengthen the scout team at that position. Of course, generally, you have to give a promotion and it can't be a lateral signing from another team, but I'm sure there's guys we could use from other teams that we could probably get here to work with us. I think this scout team and Ballard would be enticing to work with.

Yeah, GM will need to figure it out.

 

After all, they have to evaluate how they're doing in scouting every few months to be in the NFL. 

[AKB]

22 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

14.5 yards per catch.   I think Pittman’s best is 12.6.     That’s a big gap.   

not really, and the way you worded it makes it seem like pittman is some scrub, he's definitely not, especially compared to pierce. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Interesting pierce had more yards with Minshew . So expect him to have more targets  if Minshew starts.

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, AKB said:

not really, and the way you worded it makes it seem like pittman is some scrub, he's definitely not, especially compared to pierce. 

I’m a Pittman fan.  Glad he’s a Colt.   I’ve defended him many times here from his critics.   I think he’s a very good WR2. 
 

But 2 yards a catch is a very big gap. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Downs is also getting the opportunity in the slot. He beat out McKenzie. Pierce is the no2. The TEs are doing very little. The only real competition for receptions is Pittman. It's the same old same old every year with the WRs. 

 

Stafford is a mid-tier QB now. Puka is elevating Stafford, as well as Tutu Atwell, who also looks good. Otherwise it'd be Jefferson and Showerenk, who are doing terrible early. I'm tired of the excuses, I just want to see some of these draft picks hit now that we have Richardson.

And the colts have a rookie QB. Not a vet.

[CR91]

I don't feel like the colts are giving him an opportunity to excel at what he does best which is down the field contested passes. Alec isn't winning on his routes so let him use his size.

[coltsblue1844]

33 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Interesting pierce had more yards with Minshew . So expect him to have more targets  if Minshew starts.

Minshew is far better than AR at seeing the field and finding the open man.  AR , so far, either takes the quick dump off pass or runs with it, every play

[AKB]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m a Pittman fan.  Glad he’s a Colt.   I’ve defended him many times here from his critics.   I think he’s a very good WR2. 
 

But 2 yards a catch is a very big gap. 

no its not, especially when you factor in volume, and the limited route tree pierce runs. but of course you can feel how you want about it

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, coltsblue1844 said:

Minshew is far better than AR at seeing the field and finding the open man.  AR , so far, either takes the quick dump off pass or runs with it, every play

As he should be.  He’s a seasoned vet who has started more NFL games than AR has started at QB in his life.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

I think this might be the QB and not the WR.  I am not a fan of Pierce at all but Pittman looks way better than I thought he would so far.  

[ShuteAt168]

9 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

To wit: 

Pierce (2)

Strachan 

Pittman (2)*

Patmon

Campbell (2)

Fountain 

Cain 
 

*solid 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Downs is also getting the opportunity in the slot. He beat out McKenzie. Pierce is the no2. The TEs are doing very little. The only real competition for receptions is Pittman. It's the same old same old every year with the WRs. 

 

Stafford is a mid-tier QB now. Puka is elevating Stafford, as well as Tutu Atwell, who also looks good. Otherwise it'd be Jefferson and Showerenk, who are doing terrible early. I'm tired of the excuses, I just want to see some of these draft picks hit now that we have Richardson.

Downs is the WR2.    Pierce is the WR3. 
 

I don’t have the snap count in front of me, but that’s what it looks like to my eyes.   Downs is getting more snaps than Pierce.  

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

To wit: 

Pierce (2)

Strachan 

Pittman (2)*

Patmon

Campbell (2)

Fountain 

Cain 
 

*solid 

 

Strachan:  7th round

Patmon:     6th round

Fountain:    5th round

Cain:           6th round

 

That happens in the NFL.   

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

9 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

You’ve found the one fluke rookie WR drafted in day 3 who is doing great.   And you ask why don’t the Colts have someone like him?   Why don’t the other 30 teams?   A guy like Nacua doesn’t come along every year, perhaps every several years or less.   
 

Maybe Nacua is getting opportunity because the Rams have had to gut their roster post Super Bowl win.   Is Cooper Cupp even playing?   Or is he out with a bad hammy?   It doesn’t hurt Nacua that he’s got a veteran like Matt Stafford throwing to him.   Our receivers have an inexperienced rookie and a good backup.   Not the same.  
 

Plus the Rams have a Super Bowl winning head coach.   An acknowledged offensive master mind, and the Colts have a bright young offensive minded JC, who might someday be as good as McVey, but he’s not there yet.  
 

Some of these take time.   Some of these things take a little luck.   Some of these things take opportunity.  

[Moosejawcolt]

8 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Downs is also getting the opportunity in the slot. He beat out McKenzie. Pierce is the no2. The TEs are doing very little. The only real competition for receptions is Pittman. It's the same old same old every year with the WRs. 

 

Stafford is a mid-tier QB now. Puka is elevating Stafford, as well as Tutu Atwell, who also looks good. Otherwise it'd be Jefferson and Showerenk, who are doing terrible early. I'm tired of the excuses, I just want to see some of these draft picks hit now that we have Richardson.

But man can our Wrs and Tes run fast and jump high?  I remember when their athletic scores came out after the draft and everyone was drooling and I was one of the few that said players like this usually dont translate to the NFL. Give me 2-3  years of great college tape vs one afternoon of through the roof athlettic numbers, which is not backed up by great tape.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

But man can our Wrs and Tes run fast and jump high?  I remember when their athletic scores came out after the draft and everyone was drooling and I was one of the few that said players like this usually dont translate to the NFL. Give me 2-3  years of great college tape vs one afternoon of through the roof athlettic numbers, which is not backed up by great tape.

Provding some defense here, IIRC, Pitt and Pierce don't really have elite RAS's.  If Pitt does, I think it was backed up with some pretty good tape.  There were not many critics of taking him pick 37 considering our needs at the time.  I also think Pitt is a traditional timing route guy, either to the inside or outside, short or intermediate.  And this is probably where our QB rotation has let him down since he was drafted.

 

The RAS player I'm concerned about is Woods.  IIRC, he was mainly a blocker in college who never displayed elite hands.  The idea that he was viewed as a player that would be off the board before Raimann seems weird.  I think Ballard even said he was willing to take Woods at 53, but went with AP because AP was the WR.

 

I think AP is what we expected him to be at this point.  Its only been a season and two games for a kid that had limited route tree in college.

[indykmj]

11 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

What are you talking about? Prior to ARs injury, he was 5/6 throwing with 2 TD runs. Is that not a QB being efficient and finding "seemingly open" targets?

 

And even after his concussion he had a few good throws that just weren't caught (the out to Pitt and hook to Granson, just off the top of my head).

 

 Alluding to the first game when there were numerous plays where AR looked down field

 but pulled it down and took off. Was nobody open at all or just not open enough ?

 

 And fwiw, the ball to Granson on Sunday was high.

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Provding some defense here, IIRC, Pitt and Pierce don't really have elite RAS's.  If Pitt does, I think it was backed up with some pretty good tape.  There were not many critics of taking him pick 37 considering our needs at the time.  I also think Pitt is a traditional timing route guy, either to the inside or outside, short or intermediate.  And this is probably where our QB rotation has let him down since he was drafted.

 

The RAS player I'm concerned about is Woods.  IIRC, he was mainly a blocker in college who never displayed elite hands.  The idea that he was viewed as a player that would be off the board before Raimann seems weird.  I think Ballard even said he was willing to take Woods at 53, but went with AP because AP was the WR.

 

I think AP is what we expected him to be at this point.  Its only been a season and two games for a kid that had limited route tree in college.

FWIW:   Pittman was picked 34th overall.  He was the second pick of the second round.   Cincy took WR Tee Higgins with pick 33.   The Colts said in real time, once the Bengals picked Higgins the Colts decided to take Pittman.   He was the next WR on the board.   They wouldn’t risk he’d be there later in that round. 
 

 Not sure why picking Woods with pick 73 over Raimann at pick 77 is such a thing for you?   You’ve made multiple posts about it.   Both were targets.   Ballard got both.  He was less sure Woods would be there at 77 if he took Raimann at 73.   But either way, Ballard got both.   All is good.   What’s the issue?    I think the impacting factor was that Raimann was 24 or 25.   So the older age worked to Ballard’s advantage. 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 Not sure why picking Woods with pick 73 over Raimann at pick 77 is such a thing for you?   You’ve made multiple posts about it.   Both were targets.   Ballard got both.  He was less sure Woods would be there at 77 if he took Raimann at 73.   But either way, Ballard got both.   All is good.   What’s the issue?    I think the impacting factor was that Raimann was 24 or 25.   So the older age worked to Ballard’s advantage. 

I don't recall making multiple posts on the subject, if even one, but apparently I have.  Probably during the same convos as this one with Moose, about Ballard's attraction to RAS players.

 

The fact that he specifically said that he would have chosen Woods at 53, to me makes it sound like he was hoping Woods fell to 73.   Ballard valued Woods pretty highly and thought that Woods would be gone before Raimann.  Just because Ballard thought that, doesn't mean Woods wouldn't have fallen further. 

 

Not comparing Woods' future with Benogu, but there is an element to Ballard's evaluations and draft day management that suggests he competes with himself over the value of players with high RAS's...or at least traits over demonstrated production.  Which I think was the crux of @Moosejawcolt's point.  And many others'.

[NewColtsFan]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't recall making multiple posts on the subject, if even one, but apparently I have.  Probably during the same convos as this one with Moose, about Ballard's attraction to RAS players.

 

The fact that he specifically said that he would have chosen Woods at 53, to me makes it sound like he was hoping Woods fell to 73.   Ballard valued Woods pretty highly and thought that Woods would be gone before Raimann.  Just because Ballard thought that, doesn't mean Woods wouldn't have fallen further. 

 

Not comparing Woods' future with Benogu, but there is an element to Ballard's evaluations and draft day management that suggests he competes with himself over the value of players with high RAS's...or at least traits over demonstrated production.  Which I think was the crux of @Moosejawcolt's point.  And many others'.

Not sure I even understand the last paragraph.   Ballard is widely regarded as one of the top drafting GMs in the NFL.  So if he’s “competing against himself” then I think he’s winning.   
 

The players that Moose wants Ballard to draft go in the first three rounds, the top 100 players.   There are only so many of them.  
 

Consider this….  The Colts are trying to draft the most physically talented players they can find.  And they try to coach them up to make them better players in the NFL.   I believe the Colts have to do this because Ballard and Irsay don’t buy expensive free agents, a decision I strongly support.  
 

If anyone is looking for a new criticism of Ballard to consider, how about this.   We draft all these high RAS athletes and have been since at least 2019, maybe even 2018.    Yet does anyone thinks the Colts are the best, most athletic, most freaky fast team in the NFL?    I don’t think so.   You’d think we would be.   I wonder why the Colts aren’t. 
 

I don’t want this post to go longer, so I’ll cut it short here.   

[compuls1v3]

On 9/18/2023 at 7:43 AM, DougDew said:

If we're going to run AR wide to the outside, and generally throw less, then we will need WR(s) that block on the outside, and generally catch/targeted less.  

He's been blocking when called upon, and I also see him getting seperation as well.  I just don't think we are taking deep shots. 

[cbear]

WR is the hardest position to evaluate as a fan because we only see them taking off for the LOS. Can anyone say objectively that they aren't open? 

 

To me this is more on AR or Steichen. Pierce is our supposed big play WR. As such, it's going to be harder for him to get big numbers with such an inexperienced QB. 

[cbear]

14 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Downs is also getting the opportunity in the slot. He beat out McKenzie. Pierce is the no2. The TEs are doing very little. The only real competition for receptions is Pittman. It's the same old same old every year with the WRs. 

 

Stafford is a mid-tier QB now. Puka is elevating Stafford, as well as Tutu Atwell, who also looks good. Otherwise it'd be Jefferson and Showerenk, who are doing terrible early. I'm tired of the excuses, I just want to see some of these draft picks hit now that we have Richardson.

 

If Pierce is still getting so few looks as the season goes on, I'll be right there with you. But until AR grows, the guy who's supposed to get his plays more down the field won't get as much of an opportunity as guys who run short crosses and slants.  

[cbear]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:13 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Pierce is the new Granson.    Not liked or appreciated and constantly disrespected by this community.   
 

It astounds me how few posters here know what a good rookie season Pierce had.  He might as well be in the Witness Protection Program.  
 

Last year, Pierce had 41 catches for 594 yards.  A 14.5 average per catch.   Numbers Pittman has never come close to.   And he was a rookie.   This year, he’s getting the red headed step child treatment that Granson got last year and the first 6 months of this of this year.  
 

Pierce should be fine.   Pierce should get better, unless this community thinks Reggie Wayne can’t coach?   It’s a long season and I expect more opportunities for him. 

 

People here have been telling me Pierce had a disappointing training camp.   Except Stephen Holder, who is with the team every day says the opposite.  That he had a good training camp.   Funny how falsehoods get latched on to and become accepted wisdom around here.   Sigh….

Strange how it seems every year, fans need someone to beat up on. And after two whole games, it seems this year's selection is Pierce. Too bad the Oline is playing well. One of them would have probably edged him out. 

[ColtsLegacy]

4 hours ago, indykmj said:

 

 Alluding to the first game when there were numerous plays where AR looked down field

 but pulled it down and took off. Was nobody open at all or just not open enough ?

 

 And fwiw, the ball to Granson on Sunday was high.

 

The first game is irrelevant and makes no sense in regards to "well minshew was finding open receivers!" Comment.

 

The game in which they both played a significant amount, they both were efficient and found open receivers.

 

The ball to Granson was very good. Don't downplay it to try and make your point. AR would have been 8/10 (3/4 after his concussion) if it weren't for two drops. Even PFF has the Colts receivers down for two drops in the game. I'll let you guess who those two are.

 

Post concussion, AR also had a very good throw to Josh Downs called back due to penalty. So, 9/11 and possibly another scoring drive.

 

So, once again, AR was finding (and hitting) open receivers at an elite level, even while playing concussed. Minshew did great, but don't spin the narrative.

 

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Not sure I even understand the last paragraph.   Ballard is widely regarded as one of the top drafting GMs in the NFL.  So if he’s “competing against himself” then I think he’s winning.  

The topic I quoted Moose about was not about Ballard being a good GM or not, but if he values RASs and Traits more than other GMs.  IMO, this is fairly simple.  If the GM himself says that he would draft a player at 53, he's basically saying that he thinks the player won't be around for the next pick...or else he would have targeted the player for pick 73. 

 

As it played out, Ballard would have drafted Woods at 53 when no other GM drafted him before 73.  That seems like a GM who valued something about Woods a lot more than other GMs did.  But thinks other GMs see it his way too.  "Competing with himself" means that he senses competition for a RAS player that isn't there.

 

To your topic though, I'm not aware of any group that has enough stature to evaluate GMs to support how widely regarded Ballard is or is not. 

 

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The players that Moose wants Ballard to draft go in the first three rounds, the top 100 players.   There are only so many of them.

But that's not really Moose's point here.  With trade downs and natural picks, Ballard has had at least 10 picks in the top 50 the past  7 drafts.  Of those (10?) top 50 picks, he's picked 3 skilled positions...one of them a RB and one AR this past draft, and used a 4th on Wentz. 

 

Of the 10 picks in the top 50, he's used only one on a receiver...Pittman, which gets to the point of our lack of great success at the position.

 

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Consider this….  The Colts are trying to draft the most physically talented players they can find.  And they try to coach them up to make them better players in the NFL.   I believe the Colts have to do this because Ballard and Irsay don’t buy expensive free agents, a decision I strongly support.  
 

If anyone is looking for a new criticism of Ballard to consider, how about this.   We draft all these high RAS athletes and have been since at least 2019, maybe even 2018.    Yet does anyone thinks the Colts are the best, most athletic, most freaky fast team in the NFL?    I don’t think so.   You’d think we would be.   I wonder why the Colts aren’t. 

Yes, I agree.  He is valuing RAS and Traits over production at the college level, and relies upon the coaching staff to turn those physical traits into productive NFL football players.   I believe that he relies on this more than other GMs, who want their college players to come to the NFL already coached up to some level of higher production than Ballard's players.  In about 7 seasons, it hasn't really been that successful of a formula, IMO. 

 

And as far as receivers, I can't say that Ballard's picks are more RASsy or Traitsy than any other GMs picks.   It seems almost like he thinks all positions are role players placed into the offense for certain situations (except QB), and rejects the idea that skilled positions can be three down stars.

 

 

[indykmj]

7 hours ago, ColtsLegacy said:

 

The first game is irrelevant and makes no sense in regards to "well minshew was finding open receivers!" Comment.

 

The game in which they both played a significant amount, they both were efficient and found open receivers.

 

The ball to Granson was very good. Don't downplay it to try and make your point. AR would have been 8/10 (3/4 after his concussion) if it weren't for two drops. Even PFF has the Colts receivers down for two drops in the game. I'll let you guess who those two are.

 

Post concussion, AR also had a very good throw to Josh Downs called back due to penalty. So, 9/11 and possibly another scoring drive.

 

So, once again, AR was finding (and hitting) open receivers at an elite level, even while playing concussed. Minshew did great, but don't spin the narrative.

 

 

  Have it your way man. It seemingly matters a hell of a lot more to you than it 

  does me.

[ColtsLegacy]

4 hours ago, indykmj said:

 

  Have it your way man. It seemingly matters a hell of a lot more to you than it 

  does me.

 

It matters to me when people make inaccurate claims with nothing to back them up...

 

So yeah, we can agree you were wrong and move on.

[Stephen]

On 9/19/2023 at 8:36 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

Everyone look at Puka Nacua, the 5th round rookie on the Rams this year. Why can't Pierce do as well as him. Not to bash Downs, but why can't Downs do as well as him as a rookie? Why do all of our rookie WRs start off slow? Do we have poor drafting? Can Reggie Wayne not coach well? Why can teams repeatedly draft late round WRs that hit, and ours struggle their entire rookie contracts? 

 

The only real hit at WR from Ballard is Pittman. Otherwise, he sucks at drafting WRs. 

Puca is the exception  and downs has been solid

[Moosejawcolt]

On 9/20/2023 at 6:26 AM, DougDew said:

The topic I quoted Moose about was not about Ballard being a good GM or not, but if he values RASs and Traits more than other GMs.  IMO, this is fairly simple.  If the GM himself says that he would draft a player at 53, he's basically saying that he thinks the player won't be around for the next pick...or else he would have targeted the player for pick 73. 

 

As it played out, Ballard would have drafted Woods at 53 when no other GM drafted him before 73.  That seems like a GM who valued something about Woods a lot more than other GMs did.  But thinks other GMs see it his way too.  "Competing with himself" means that he senses competition for a RAS player that isn't there.

 

To your topic though, I'm not aware of any group that has enough stature to evaluate GMs to support how widely regarded Ballard is or is not. 

 

But that's not really Moose's point here.  With trade downs and natural picks, Ballard has had at least 10 picks in the top 50 the past  7 drafts.  Of those (10?) top 50 picks, he's picked 3 skilled positions...one of them a RB and one AR this past draft, and used a 4th on Wentz. 

 

Of the 10 picks in the top 50, he's used only one on a receiver...Pittman, which gets to the point of our lack of great success at the position.

 

Yes, I agree.  He is valuing RAS and Traits over production at the college level, and relies upon the coaching staff to turn those physical traits into productive NFL football players.   I believe that he relies on this more than other GMs, who want their college players to come to the NFL already coached up to some level of higher production than Ballard's players.  In about 7 seasons, it hasn't really been that successful of a formula, IMO. 

 

And as far as receivers, I can't say that Ballard's picks are more RASsy or Traitsy than any other GMs picks.   It seems almost like he thinks all positions are role players placed into the offense for certain situations (except QB), and rejects the idea that skilled positions can be three down stars.

 

 

It is kind of funny, but u just have to look at the results 7 years later, and that will tell u how good of a GM Ballard really is.  I think Irsay and him had some long talks. I think Irsay loves Ballard and thinks he can become an elite GM wirh aome tujinv herew and there. He had his Qb, so no more excuses. The next 2 years are going to tell us how good a GM he really is. No hiding behind Frank and not having that franchise Qb. 

[Yoshinator]

On 9/19/2023 at 4:19 PM, NewColtsFan said:

You’ve found the one fluke rookie WR drafted in day 3 who is doing great.   And you ask why don’t the Colts have someone like him?   Why don’t the other 30 teams?   A guy like Nacua doesn’t come along every year, perhaps every several years or less.   
 

Maybe Nacua is getting opportunity because the Rams have had to gut their roster post Super Bowl win.   Is Cooper Cupp even playing?   Or is he out with a bad hammy?   It doesn’t hurt Nacua that he’s got a veteran like Matt Stafford throwing to him.   Our receivers have an inexperienced rookie and a good backup.   Not the same.  
 

Plus the Rams have a Super Bowl winning head coach.   An acknowledged offensive master mind, and the Colts have a bright young offensive minded JC, who might someday be as good as McVey, but he’s not there yet.  
 

Some of these take time.   Some of these things take a little luck.   Some of these things take opportunity.  

 

4 hours ago, Stephen said:

Puca is the exception  and downs has been solid

Quoting both of you together on this one. I've been high on Puka Nacua before the season started. I took him in over 20% of my bestball tourneys. The average % is 8.33% in a normal 12 man bestball when you spread it among $206 worth of leagues that I did. 

 

He's not some unknown player that I had no idea whom he was until after week 1 and picked him up off waivers, I was drafting him BEFORE the Kupp hamstring injury because I already knew how good he was, and am over 2 1/2 times ownership over him above the field. 

 

This is partly why I'm annoyed with this front office about not getting guys like him, because even I can learn how good someone like him is, with limited tape and only info from training camp and preseason. Just gets old after a while. Our other young WRs had veteran QBs like Wentz, Rivers, and Ryan the last few years (although not as good as Stafford, still guys our FO wanted that were in the league a while), and the WRs besides Pittman failed. 

[ShuteAt168]

On 9/19/2023 at 9:46 PM, NewColtsFan said:

Not sure I even understand the last paragraph.   Ballard is widely regarded as one of the top drafting GMs in the NFL.  So if he’s “competing against himself” then I think he’s winning.   
 

The players that Moose wants Ballard to draft go in the first three rounds, the top 100 players.   There are only so many of them.  
 

Consider this….  The Colts are trying to draft the most physically talented players they can find.  And they try to coach them up to make them better players in the NFL.   I believe the Colts have to do this because Ballard and Irsay don’t buy expensive free agents, a decision I strongly support.  
 

If anyone is looking for a new criticism of Ballard to consider, how about this.   We draft all these high RAS athletes and have been since at least 2019, maybe even 2018.    Yet does anyone thinks the Colts are the best, most athletic, most freaky fast team in the NFL?    I don’t think so.   You’d think we would be.   I wonder why the Colts aren’t. 
 

I don’t want this post to go longer, so I’ll cut it short here.   

“Ballard is widely regarded as one of the top drafting GMs in the NFL.” For sure. When a GM is 46-53-1, there’s going to be constant chatter about how great he is on draft day. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Jared Cisneros said:

 

Quoting both of you together on this one. I've been high on Puka Nacua before the season started. I took him in over 20% of my bestball tourneys. The average % is 8.33% in a normal 12 man bestball when you spread it among $206 worth of leagues that I did. 

 

He's not some unknown player that I had no idea whom he was until after week 1 and picked him up off waivers, I was drafting him BEFORE the Kupp hamstring injury because I already knew how good he was, and am over 2 1/2 times ownership over him above the field. 

 

This is partly why I'm annoyed with this front office about not getting guys like him, because even I can learn how good someone like him is, with limited tape and only info from training camp and preseason. Just gets old after a while. Our other young WRs had veteran QBs like Wentz, Rivers, and Ryan the last few years (although not as good as Stafford, still guys our FO wanted that were in the league a while), and the WRs besides Pittman failed. 

Campbell didn’t fail.   He was injured for 3 of his 4 years.  That’s different.   And Pierce hasn’t failed.   He had a good rookie year except most of his detractors have no idea.  
 

As to everything else, you knew how good he was after you learned about him in training camp and ore-season vs the Colts who made decisions back in April.   And you somehow think that’s the same.  
 

Thank you, Jared…..

 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, ShuteAt168 said:

“Ballard is widely regarded as one of the top drafting GMs in the NFL.” For sure. When a GM is 46-53-1, there’s going to be constant chatter about how great he is on draft day. 

There are all sorts of responses I could say, but no one is interested in our never ending squabbles.  But I think you left yourself wide open with this post and your classic one earlier about Ballard and Luck. 

 

But I’ll decline to spell it out here because it’s only going to lead to more back and forth that leads to nowhere.  We agree in almost nothing which is fine.  But if you want to continue then send me a private message and we can continue this off-line. 
 

You and I going back and forth has quickly become old and tired.  

[Yoshinator]

2 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Campbell didn’t fail.   He was injured for 3 of his 4 years.  That’s different.   And Pierce hasn’t failed.   He had a good rookie year except most of his detractors have no idea.  
 

As to everything else, you knew how good he was after you learned about him in training camp and ore-season vs the Colts who made decisions back in April.   And you somehow think that’s the same.  
 

Thank you, Jared…..

 

Campbell was an injury bust for the Colts. That's all that matters. He didn't produce for us. Whether or not he produces elsewhere is irrelevant. Same with the other WRs drafted by Ballard that go elsewhere. They don't help us on other teams if they hit. Literally the only advantage I had over Ballard was training camp and preseason. He literally has the advantage over me in all the tape he watches, the scouting team he has, the interviews he does, and lots of other stuff and you think it's unfair that I'm smarter than Ballard the one time I have an advantage over Ballard considering Puka Nacua and use it against him. Just imagine if I was in Ballards position and had all his resources and scouts. Maybe then, I wouldn't look like an armchair GM, and it would be much closer.