POLLS: The Jonathan Taylor Saga

[Superman]

56 minutes ago, Creekside said:

 

Can you clarify what was said earlier, to the effect that JT can come off PUP and play just one game, and then shut it down?

 

Yeah, csmopar broke it down in the main JT thread. Bottom line, he has to be active for at least one game this season to qualify for free agency. So he could come off PUP, play one game, then say 'my ankle is still hurt,' go on IR, and still become a free agent in 2024.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/75498-jonathan-taylor-comments-on-his-contractrequest-trade-merge/?do=findComment&comment=2546371

 

[Hoose]

39 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, csmopar broke it down in the main JT thread. Bottom line, he has to be active for at least one game this season to qualify for free agency. So he could come off PUP, play one game, then say 'my ankle is still hurt,' go on IR, and still become a free agent in 2024.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/75498-jonathan-taylor-comments-on-his-contractrequest-trade-merge/?do=findComment&comment=2546371

 

Which won’t help his cause for a big contract. Most will correctly assume that he’s faking it. Who wants a guy like that on your team? Especially at a high price?

[John Hammonds]

22 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

How do we know the Colts didn't put any kind of offer that JT and his agent refused and are now realizing they weren't going to get that much more?

We don't, fully.  But it kept being said on the radio over and over that they hadn't.  How did they know?  Eh, good question.  I'll go with the radio guys until demonstrated otherwise.

[Bravo]

This could be unrelated to football. Just feels like it isn’t. Was posted shortly after the depth chart was released.
 

Why do players hate playing for the Colts!? Lol

[BProland85]

On 9/6/2023 at 1:46 PM, Superman said:

 

Yeah, csmopar broke it down in the main JT thread. Bottom line, he has to be active for at least one game this season to qualify for free agency. So he could come off PUP, play one game, then say 'my ankle is still hurt,' go on IR, and still become a free agent in 2024.

 

https://forums.colts.com/topic/75498-jonathan-taylor-comments-on-his-contractrequest-trade-merge/?do=findComment&comment=2546371

 

I really can’t stand JT and his agent right now if they were to do that. Cant the team doctors determine if the player is healthy? Players faking injuries is not a good thing for the league or teams. 

[Superman]

55 minutes ago, BProland85 said:

That’s so f’d up. I really can’t stand JT and his agent right now if they were to do that. Cant the team doctors determine if the player is healthy? Players faking injuries is not a good thing for the league or teams. 

 

There are some actions the Colts can take, if necessary. But if they want to repair the relationship, I think the best course is to incentivize him.

[lester]

On 9/5/2023 at 5:04 PM, shasta519 said:

It's the "just wait out this season and we will pay you then" that makes me roll my eyes.

 

The Colts have been transparent. They are not hiding their agenda: they want to see how an elite running back (specifically, Jonathon Taylor) fits into the new scheme, with a new coach, after his recovery from injury, etc. etc. etc.

 

Jonathon Taylor is accustomed to 15 to 20 carries per game (average 15 in 2020, 20 in 2021, and 17 in 2022). How is it great for the Colts (or JT for that matter) if his role with Shane Steichen is only 7 to 10 carries a game in the new offense? You don't extend him (or anyone this year) until you know how they fit.

 

A contract is not just more money. It is also a lengthy commitment where they team carries that player into the future (with an opportunity cost of not having that roster spot for someone else). The Colts understand that a player like JT might not be the best fit in the kind of offense they are crafting. If they extend him now, BEFORE seeing the offense emerge, they are committing to him. That would be a mistake. They know this (and I think JT knows this too).

 

Remember, Jonathon Taylor is a very smart human. Observers are scratching their heads trying to figure out why he is behaving the way he is. My opinion, JT is doing everything, anything he can think of to engineer a trade precisely because he understands exactly what kind of role he will have in Indy going forward. He knows the tape he makes this year will be bad for his business. Not as a bad player, mind you; I'm not disparaging Jonathon Taylor's ability as a running back. I'm merely stating that he knows that he needs to land on a team that fits his desired role; before he creates a measly 700 or 800 yards during this contract year.

 

 

[ShuteAt168]

1 hour ago, lester said:

 

The Colts have been transparent. They are not hiding their agenda: they want to see how an elite running back (specifically, Jonathon Taylor) fits into the new scheme, with a new coach, after his recovery from injury, etc. etc. etc.

 

Jonathon Taylor is accustomed to 15 to 20 carries per game (average 15 in 2020, 20 in 2021, and 17 in 2022). How is it great for the Colts (or JT for that matter) if his role with Shane Steichen is only 7 to 10 carries a game in the new offense? You don't extend him (or anyone this year) until you know how they fit.

 

A contract is not just more money. It is also a lengthy commitment where they team carries that player into the future (with an opportunity cost of not having that roster spot for someone else). The Colts understand that a player like JT might not be the best fit in the kind of offense they are crafting. If they extend him now, BEFORE seeing the offense emerge, they are committing to him. That would be a mistake. They know this (and I think JT knows this too).

 

Remember, Jonathon Taylor is a very smart human. Observers are scratching their heads trying to figure out why he is behaving the way he is. My opinion, JT is doing everything, anything he can think of to engineer a trade precisely because he understands exactly what kind of role he will have in Indy going forward. He knows the tape he makes this year will be bad for his business. Not as a bad player, mind you; I'm not disparaging Jonathon Taylor's ability as a running back. I'm merely stating that he knows that he needs to land on a team that fits his desired role; before he creates a measly 700 or 800 yards during this contract year.

 

 

Sure, JT out there playing 4D chess! For a “very smart human,” he’s made a lot of dumb moves this off-season. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

12 minutes ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Sure, JT out there playing 4D chess! For a “very smart human,” he’s made a lot of dumb moves this off-season. 

JT is down to the end game with only a Rook and Bishop left, while Management has a Rook and their Queen. It is like a Lion taking on a Grizzley Bear at that point. The inevitable is coming. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 hours ago, Bravo said:

This could be unrelated to football. Just feels like it isn’t. Was posted shortly after the depth chart was released.
 

Why do players hate playing for the Colts!? Lol

What is that Tweet supposed to mean? I never knew he had a problem being here. 

[w87r]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What is that Tweet supposed to mean? I never knew he had a problem being here. 

Either he don't trust us or doesn't feel we trust him? Yeah you wouldn't figure he would let us cut him and re-sign him back if there was an issue.

 

I saw some other random tweet last night that referenced this, but I can't find it.

 

They had Isiah name spelled wrong and referencef Downs, I remember that, and initially thought why would Isaiah Land have a problem with Downs?

 

Then afterwards I realized it was McKenzie, still not knowing about this tweet though until today.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Either he don't trust us or doesn't feel we trust him? Yeah you wouldn't figure he would let us cut him and re-sign him back if there was an issue.

 

I saw some other random tweet last night that referenced this, but I can't find it.

 

They had Isiah name spelled wrong and referencef Downs, I remember that, and initially thought why would Isaiah Land have a problem with Downs?

 

Then afterwards I realized it was McKenzie, still not knowing about this tweet though until today.

Yeah when I just seen that Tweet, I thought it was odd. Kind of surprised me. 

[Creekside]

3 hours ago, ShuteAt168 said:

Sure, JT out there playing 4D chess! For a “very smart human,” he’s made a lot of dumb moves this off-season. 

 

He's human...I agree with that.

[EasyE]

14 hours ago, Superman said:

 

There are some actions the Colts can take, if necessary. But if they want to repair the relationship, I think the best course is to incentivize him.

What are the other actions the Colts could take? I would love for the JT circus show to be over. Do you really think incentivize a player that doesn't want to be with this team is right move? I don't know that's why I'm asking.

[shasta519]

21 hours ago, lester said:

 

The Colts have been transparent. They are not hiding their agenda: they want to see how an elite running back (specifically, Jonathon Taylor) fits into the new scheme, with a new coach, after his recovery from injury, etc. etc. etc.

 

Jonathon Taylor is accustomed to 15 to 20 carries per game (average 15 in 2020, 20 in 2021, and 17 in 2022). How is it great for the Colts (or JT for that matter) if his role with Shane Steichen is only 7 to 10 carries a game in the new offense? You don't extend him (or anyone this year) until you know how they fit.

 

A contract is not just more money. It is also a lengthy commitment where they team carries that player into the future (with an opportunity cost of not having that roster spot for someone else). The Colts understand that a player like JT might not be the best fit in the kind of offense they are crafting. If they extend him now, BEFORE seeing the offense emerge, they are committing to him. That would be a mistake. They know this (and I think JT knows this too).

 

Remember, Jonathon Taylor is a very smart human. Observers are scratching their heads trying to figure out why he is behaving the way he is. My opinion, JT is doing everything, anything he can think of to engineer a trade precisely because he understands exactly what kind of role he will have in Indy going forward. He knows the tape he makes this year will be bad for his business. Not as a bad player, mind you; I'm not disparaging Jonathon Taylor's ability as a running back. I'm merely stating that he knows that he needs to land on a team that fits his desired role; before he creates a measly 700 or 800 yards during this contract year.

 

 

 

Agree. I understand why JT is doing what he is doing. It's because of the bolded above. He knows what the Colts know...and it's that his role will likely be diminished, which will likely diminish his production and impact his contract value. He won't be able to produce to the level he has shown in the past to secure the contract he wants, especially paired with his injury-plagued 2022 season.

 

I roll my eyes because the Colts already know this, which is partly why they aren't going to pay him as a top 5 or maybe even top 10 RB. The "wait and see how he does" approach is really just to identify how low his value will be, not an opportunity for him to ball out and get the big contract he wants.

 

I still think a trade is the best move going forward for JT. And it does seem like JT is trying to engineer that move. But I also think it's the best course for the Colts as well. Next year's draft class is pretty deep with Day 2 RBs. If they can get back a couple Day 2 picks, they can find a viable replacement that will better fit the reduced role in Steichen's scheme.

[Superman]

9 hours ago, EasyE said:

What are the other actions the Colts could take? I would love for the JT circus show to be over. Do you really think incentivize a player that doesn't want to be with this team is right move? I don't know that's why I'm asking.

 

First step would be for him to show up and start practicing. And then, offer a slight base pay increase in 2023, plus an incentive for games played. But they should only consider that if they're sensing a softening in his position.

 

To be honest, I'm not thrilled about this option, and not in a hurry to see the Colts use it. But with the way JT and his agent have played things since the start of camp, I think the Colts should be careful about trusting them. And offering an incentive is a way of extending an olive branch, and giving JT a reason to actually participate throughout the season.

[BlackTiger]

Just trade him for a second, dont ask for so much that no one will offer it.  Dont take less either because we could get a comp pick out of him.

 

He will go to war with the team if they tag him, he may even walk away and go study astro physics.

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

First step would be for him to show up and start practicing. And then, offer a slight base pay increase in 2023, plus an incentive for games played. But they should only consider that if they're sensing a softening in his position.

 

To be honest, I'm not thrilled about this option, and not in a hurry to see the Colts use it. But with the way JT and his agent have played things since the start of camp, I think the Colts should be careful about trusting them. And offering an incentive is a way of extending an olive branch, and giving JT a reason to actually participate throughout the season.

I often wonder how something like the JT situation affects the morale of the team? He is in reality our best player. I hope the team can block out this when they play Sunday. 

[Rhodelesstraveled]

We should trade him before the trade deadline to a team who needs him.  We are not going anywhere for the next few years and we need to rebuild.  By that time JT is done.  So unload him.  I'd package it with Leonard and or Nelson to dump their salaries so start anew.  

[BlackTiger]

This is squarely on JT imo.

 

The team isnt extending anyone due to having a new coach.  A lot of teams have operated this way in the same situation and it makes sense to me.  

 

This is just not the time to hand out a big contract to anyone.

 

Hes also a RB coming off a down year and is still out with injury now!  How does that scream "give me a raise!".  Its near absurd for him to be demanding a raise as he sits out "unable to preform"

[Jackie Daytona]

22 hours ago, lester said:

 

The Colts have been transparent. They are not hiding their agenda: they want to see how an elite running back (specifically, Jonathon Taylor) fits into the new scheme, with a new coach, after his recovery from injury, etc. etc. etc.

 

Jonathon Taylor is accustomed to 15 to 20 carries per game (average 15 in 2020, 20 in 2021, and 17 in 2022). How is it great for the Colts (or JT for that matter) if his role with Shane Steichen is only 7 to 10 carries a game in the new offense? You don't extend him (or anyone this year) until you know how they fit.

 

A contract is not just more money. It is also a lengthy commitment where they team carries that player into the future (with an opportunity cost of not having that roster spot for someone else). The Colts understand that a player like JT might not be the best fit in the kind of offense they are crafting. If they extend him now, BEFORE seeing the offense emerge, they are committing to him. That would be a mistake. They know this (and I think JT knows this too).

 

Remember, Jonathon Taylor is a very smart human. Observers are scratching their heads trying to figure out why he is behaving the way he is. My opinion, JT is doing everything, anything he can think of to engineer a trade precisely because he understands exactly what kind of role he will have in Indy going forward. He knows the tape he makes this year will be bad for his business. Not as a bad player, mind you; I'm not disparaging Jonathon Taylor's ability as a running back. I'm merely stating that he knows that he needs to land on a team that fits his desired role; before he creates a measly 700 or 800 yards during this contract year.

 

 

There are how many teams that will feature him as this three down every drive bell cow back? 

 

I buy that he wants that role.  I'm not sure he buys that that job opening exists anywhere else. 

[Jackie Daytona]

33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I often wonder how something like the JT situation affects the morale of the team? He is in reality our best player. I hope the team can block out this when they play Sunday. 

They honestly don't care about a guy trying to get his pay increased I don't think.  It's been consistently referenced for decades across all sports.....

[Jackie Daytona]

31 minutes ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

We should trade him before the trade deadline to a team who needs him.  We are not going anywhere for the next few years and we need to rebuild.  By that time JT is done.  So unload him.  I'd package it with Leonard and or Nelson to dump their salaries so start anew.  

Lmao ok..... you just send MASSIVE salaries out with a guy looking to make a MASSIVE salary for cheap, high value, draft picks. Yep.  Teams dying to line up for that trade.

 

Nelson?  How.....he either has many years ahead of him, or he's shot and never going to last.... option A, you keep him....option B no one wants him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, Jackie Daytona said:

They honestly don't care about a guy trying to get his pay increased I don't think.  It's been consistently referenced for decades across all sports.....

I would think so but you never know. 

[iuswingman]

On 9/7/2023 at 9:54 AM, Bravo said:

This could be unrelated to football. Just feels like it isn’t. Was posted shortly after the depth chart was released.
 

Why do players hate playing for the Colts!? Lol

 

We dropped him a little over a week ago and he re-signed with us a day later.

 

He could have easily went to another team so not sure it is about the Colts

[Zoltan]

On 9/7/2023 at 5:54 AM, Bravo said:

This could be unrelated to football. Just feels like it isn’t. Was posted shortly after the depth chart was released.
 

Why do players hate playing for the Colts!? Lol

 

This could be interpreted so many ways, it could be football related, it could be not football related. It could be him saying that people don't trust the team or the process. Do we know what he is referencing no

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, Rhodelesstraveled said:

We should trade him before the trade deadline to a team who needs him.  We are not going anywhere for the next few years and we need to rebuild.  By that time JT is done.  So unload him.  I'd package it with Leonard and or Nelson to dump their salaries so start anew.  

Trading Shaq and Leonard would do far more damage than good.   The dead cap hit alone would do tremendous damage.  
 

No team is going to give fair market value because Leonard and Nelson are either coming off injuries or down years.   
 

Both could potentially moved next off-season from now. 
 

 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

On 9/7/2023 at 7:24 PM, Bravo said:

This could be unrelated to football. Just feels like it isn’t. Was posted shortly after the depth chart was released.
 

Why do players hate playing for the Colts!? Lol

The tweet was more than a day after the depth chart got released. 

 

Anyway, he must be happy with the Colts getting him because no other team tried to get him in waivers or in the off-season.