Should Frank Reich be fired if we don't win the AFC South?

[2006Coltsbestever]

I have Frank in my top 15 head coaches, I think he is above average to good but this is the time as a team we need to do bigger things. We have Matt Ryan now, so we should win the division. 

[stitches]

Honestly... probably both Frank and Ballard should be on the hot seat if we don't take a major step forward this season. I would have understood them taking a step back with a young QB and would have been good with another no playoff season if we were looking with one eye towards the future, BUT when both Frank and Ballard are playing the win-now game and are making moves that signify they think this team should be contending right now ... then they should also be held accountable if that team doesn't meet expectations.  People around here are way too comfortable with failure. When the FO and ownere and coaches are all telling you we are going for it, and then don't deliver, this shouldn't be brushed aside, especially since it won't be the first time they've underdelivered miserably after overpromising in the off-season. 

 

I like both Frank and Ballard but at some point results have to matter. This is especially true when we are actually chasing results and not rebuilding... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

25 minutes ago, stitches said:

Honestly... probably both Frank and Ballard should be on the hot seat if we don't take a major step forward this season. I would have understood them taking a step back with a young QB and would have been good with another no playoff season if we were looking with one eye towards the future, BUT when both Frank and Ballard are playing the win-now game and are making moves that signify they think this team should be contending right now ... then they should also be held accountable if that team doesn't meet expectations.  People around here are way too comfortable with failure. When the FO and ownere and coaches are all telling you we are going for it, and then don't deliver, this shouldn't be brushed aside, especially since it won't be the first time they've underdelivered miserably after overpromising in the off-season. 

 

I like both Frank and Ballard but at some point results have to matter. This is especially true when we are actually chasing results and not rebuilding... 

I am going to go ahead and vote yes and I think Frank is above average at worse, sometimes good. You posted many good points and I do think this is the year we should win the South under Frank. We play in a division where it is possible. By Vegas odds we are at even odds with the Titans to win it + we should sweep the Texans and Jags. For some reason we always lose at Jacksonville though, puzzling.

[Myles]

I think it depends on how they would lose it.  If the Titans go 12-5 and the Colts go 11-6, I can see the Colts retaining him.   I think he is a good coach but has a few deficiencies which could cost the Colts the division.  If he loses to the Jags in Jacksonville again and has a couple poorly called games, I can see Ballard going a different direction.   His 4-4 record against a horrible Jags team leaves lots of questions.  

[lollygagger8]

I think he's a good head coach, but not a great in game play caller. 

 

I've said this 1k times already, but after the first 15 scripted plays, the Offense typically falls flat. I think Matty Ice will help get the team in the right plays and mask some of Reich's deficiencies, but he doesn't have a real flow for making adjustments in game. I called for Frank to give up play calling a long time ago (as many of us did) 

[Solid84]

That’s a tough question.
 

While I think it’s about time we see some results after all the ‘mountain climbing’ and the “we think we can compete”, so much new has happened this off season:

 

 -New defensive coaching staff and a slight change in scheme

 -At least 2 of 5 new starters at the oline 

 -New QB

  I think our floor is pretty low this season while our ceiling is likewise pretty high. An average of that should probably land us a playoff spot and that’s what’s going to make me vote yes. It’s close though in my opinion. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

That’s a tough question.
 

While I think it’s about time we see some results after all the ‘mountain climbing’ and the “we think we can compete”, so much new has happened this off season:

 

 -New defensive coaching staff and a slight change in scheme

 -At least 2 of 5 new starters at the oline 

 -New QB

  I think our floor is pretty low this season while our ceiling is likewise pretty high. An average of that should probably land us a playoff spot and that’s what’s going to make me vote yes. It’s close though in my opinion. 

I was going to add another option = 'not sure' but I wanted a simple yes or no answer just to see where people actually stand. So far we have all yes's, I voted yes as well and I am a Frank fan.

[Two_pound]

I voted "no", he has had 4 different starting qb's in his first 4 years here, this year will be his 5th different starting qb and yet he has a winning record and people think he should be fired? Think about this, he even went 7-9 with Brissett at qb, that was coach of the year worthy there. I'll stick with Frank!

[icf]

I'd think they're both gone if they dont show significant improvement this season.  Irsay wont tolerate missing the playoffs AGAIN

[DougDew]

What a silly question.  No, he should not.  TEN is a good team.

 

If there are repercussions for not winning the division, I say fire Ballard, and trade Nelson and Leonard; then give Frank some talent at the important positions. 

 

 

[DougDew]

Should Nelson be traded if we don't win the Division?

 

Should Leonard be traded if we don't win the Division?

[2006Coltsbestever]

30 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What a silly question.  No, he should not.  TEN is a good team.

 

If there are repercussions for not winning the division, I say fire Ballard, and trade Nelson and Leonard; then give Frank some talent at the important positions. 

 

 

It actually isn't a silly question because most people I have to talked outside of here, say yes and look at the poll. I guess 80% of people are silly. That is why I created this poll and ask this question because I knew what the outcome would be. I was just making sure I was right.

 

Also we should win the division, we have just as good as roster as Tennessee has and now a better QB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, DougDew said:

Should Nelson be traded if we don't win the Division?

 

Should Leonard be traded if we don't win the Division?

Irrelevant to the topic, quit being silly.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It actually isn't a silly question because most people I have to talked outside of here, say yes and look at the poll. I guess 80% are silly. That is why I created this poll and ask this question because I knew what the outcome would be. I was just making sure I was right.

 

Also we should win the division, we have just as good as roster as Tennessee has and now a better QB. 

The majority is usually band-wagon-riders.  Never trust it as a measure of good judgment.  Sometimes its being led by shouters who won't stop shouting their point.

 

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Irrelevant to the topic, quit being silly.

Why would you question the HC as being the cause of failure when the team has labored for years with an over-abundance of talent that can't be used effectively because of where it plays?

 

My answer to your question is No, the issue is the playmakers we need are still young or haven't gelled together after only one season together.  The players who have been here for many years are rather inconsequential relative to that.

[coltsva]

Not winning the division, but making the playoffs, I say roll another year with FR & CB and see what happens with a 2nd year with the same QB. 

 

Not making the playoffs, then Irsay needs to decide if it's due to poor coaching, poor talent, or both. I'd be fine with axing one or both of them if the Colts miss the playoffs again. 

 

I'll add this: If the Colts start 0-2, losing to Houston & Jags, we may have our first in season firing of a head coach. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

The majority is usually band-wagon-riders.  Never trust it as a measure of good judgment.

 

Why would you question the HC as being the cause of failure when the team has labored for years with an over-abundance of talent that can't be used effectively?

 

My answer to your question is No, the issue is the playmakers we need are still young or haven't gelled together after only one season together.  The players who have been hear for many years are rather inconsequential relative to that.

With the off season we have had, if you can look at me with a straight face and say we shouldn't win the division, that is really surprising. Tennessee is good but nothing special. Now if we were in the AFC West I would agree with you.

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, coltsva said:

Not winning the division, but making the playoffs, I say roll another year with FR & CB and see what happens with a 2nd year with the same QB. 

 

Not making the playoffs, then Irsay needs to decide if it's due to poor coaching, poor talent, or both. I'd be fine with axing one or both of them if the Colts miss the playoffs again. 

 

I'll add this: If the Colts start 0-2, losing to Houston & Jags, we may have our first in season firing of a head coach. 

I don't think we make the playoffs unless we win the division so I didn't make that option. AFC is too deep.

[DougDew]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

With the off season we have had, if you can look at me with a straight face and say we shouldn't win the division, that is really surprising. Tennessee is good but nothing special. Now if we were in the AFC West I would agree with you.

TEN won the division without their main offensive threat last year.  We have a bunch of new players that have not played together...and I don't expect the rookies to be an elixir....especially if Woods and Granson can't catch the ball.   I think in two years the roster will be where its should be the favorite for the Division...provided the other teams don't surpass us.  

 

I blame the players, not the coach.  If you showed me where the players rejected the coach or the coach made a series of bad in-game management decisions (not a few weird play calls, but serious game management issues) then I might blame the coach.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

TEN won the division without their main offensive threat last year.  We have a bunch of new players that have not played together...and I don't expect the rookies to be an elixir....especially if Woods and Granson can't catch the ball.   I think in two years the roster will be where its should be the favorite for the Division...provided the other teams don't surpass us.  

 

I blame the players, not the coach.  If you showed me where the players rejected the coach or the coach made a series of bad in-game management decisions (not a few weird play calls, but serious game management issues) then I might blame the coach.

We have a better roster now and everyone is healthy. Better QB, Dayo, Leonard, Nelson all will be 100%. Taylor is MVP level, Ryan is better than Tannehill even at 37. Tennessee won't sweep us like last season + they won a a lot of close games last year. I just think it is our year in the South. We will see brother.

[Yoshinator]

Yes. Reich should be on the hot seat. If we miss the playoffs, he should go. I'm ok with a wildcard spot as long as we win at least one playoff game. There needs to be major improvement though. Ballard has worked his butt off to surround Reich with a great team on offense and defense through FA and the Draft. Reich has done everything he can to make the team worse in both blowing games and blowing draft capital.

 

One more chance. Win the division or make the wildcard, or you're gone. Reich has made me lose interest in a team I have loved for 25 years since Peyton was drafted here. The guy hasn't been it. He's stubborn, close-minded, and can't win at the NFL level as a coach in any meaningful way. Let him sink or swim this year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Yes. Reich should be on the hot seat. If we miss the playoffs, he should go. I'm ok with a wildcard spot as long as we win at least one playoff game. There needs to be major improvement though. Ballard has worked his butt off to surround Reich with a great on offense and defense through FA and the Draft. Reich has done everything he can to make the team worse in both blowing games and blowing draft capital.

 

One more chance. Win the division or make the wildcard, or you're gone. Reich has made me lose interest in a team I have loved for 25 years since Peyton was drafted here. The guy hasn't been it. He's stubborn, close-minded, and can't win at the NFL level as a coach in any meaningful way. Let him sink or swim this year.

I can't see us making the playoffs without winning the division. You have KC, Chargers, Broncos, Raiders just in the West alone. Buffalo, Cincy, and Baltimore in other divisions. Tennessee in our division as well.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

We have a better roster now and everyone is healthy. Better QB, Dayo, Leonard, Nelson all will be 100%. Taylor is MVP level, Ryan is better than Tannehill even at 37. Tennessee won't sweep us like last season + they won a a lot of close games last year. I just think it is our year in the South. We will see brother.

(I read the bolded as a challenge or a prediction on your part)

 

 Because you choose to make an on-paper prediction about Divisional expectations doesn't mean that I am.  Don't read into anything I said as me saying that I expect TEN to win the Division.

 

That's the whole premise of the poll, that you expect us to win the Division because of the personnel you see on paper in June.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I can't see us making the playoffs without winning the division. You have KC, Chargers, Broncos, Raiders just in the West alone. Buffalo, Cincy, and Baltimore in other divisions. Tennessee in our division as well.

The West will beat up on each other quite a bit. I can see 2 or 3 teams making from there, but definitely not 4. They are a little bit overrated as well by the general public. Buffalo probably wins the division, so does Cincy, and either Tenn or Indy. We have an easy schedule besides the West, we can sneak in as a playoff team half the time probably with 3 wildcard spots.

[2006Coltsbestever]

We could go 11-6 and miss the playoffs if we don't win the division. That is how deep the AFC is. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is way to much a vague question. What if they lose the south with a 12-5 or 13-4 record. He isn’t going to get fired.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This is way to much a vague question. What if they lose the south with a 12-5 or 13-4 record. He isn’t going to get fired.

With 7 playoff spots and 3 wildcard spots, I don't think that is actually possible. 13-4 is guaranteed to make the playoffs, and I've never seen a 12 win team miss it either, especially with 3 wildcard spots.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

With 7 playoff spots and 3 wildcard spots, I don't think that is actually possible. 13-4 is guaranteed to make the playoffs, and I've never seen a 12 win team miss it either, especially with 3 wildcard spots.

The question didn’t ask about the playoffs.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

(I read the bolded as a challenge or a prediction on your part)

 

 Because you choose to make an on-paper prediction about Divisional expectations doesn't mean that I am.  Don't read into anything I said as me saying that I expect TEN to win the Division.

 

That's the whole premise of the poll, that you expect us to win the Division because of the personnel you see on paper in June.

Nah it wasn't a challenge, it was more of a we will see what happens as a brethren Colts fan. 

[chad72]

I voted Yes but wanted to clarify we need to give him 2 seasons with Matt Ryan before pulling the trigger if we don’t wi the division, which would be more than he would have had with any QB.

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

The question didn’t ask about the playoffs.

Ok, my apologies. However, if we go 12-5 or 13-4, don't win the AFC South, but make the wildcard, nobody is going to want him fired in that case. That would be understandable and bad luck. Of course he would keep his job then.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

The question didn’t ask about the playoffs.

Yep. What if we win 11 and miss the playoffs because Tennessee wins 11 or 12, the AFC has 10 teams that could win 11 or more IMO. I just think we have to win the division to get in, so I tried to keep the question simple. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Jared Cisneros said:

Ok, my apologies. However, if we go 12-5 or 13-4, don't win the AFC South, but make the wildcard, nobody is going to want him fired in that case. That would be understandable and bad luck. Of course he would keep his job then.

That makes sense. Of course if we win 12 and make the playoffs but don't win the division, then I agree with you. 

[AwesomeAustin]

Unless we lose Matt Ryan to injury for an extended amount of time, it’s playoffs or bust for Frank.  
 

I said this in another thread, Reich is the Carson Wentz of coaches. There is a boatload of stats and things like new QB every year that back up why he is a franchise coach.  There are also things like going for it on 4th down that cost us a playoff game, losing leads to Baltimore, TN and TB, nonsense playcalling at the wrong time in games and banging the table for Wentz. Add he is ultimately responsible for the team starting and ending the season flat. Yeah there are reasons working against him but every single job in the world has obstacles to work around.  Good employees figure out how to make it work. 
 

I personally think he should of not been extended and then let go last year. Being the worst QB class and recent history probably helped save him bc it was perfect timing to change leadership. However, considering the circumstances, I understand why he is still here.  I will say there are no more excuses. He must make the playoffs with this squad. I won’t say he must win the division bc TN is good...I will say he should win the division. It’s time to make it happen.  
 

One thing is clear though, Ballard is super safe. He is a great GM.  Let’s see if the coach steps it up as well. 
 

I will say the door to change coaches has been left open.  Contracts are setup to cut players and certain guys haven’t been extended yet where I believe if this was our group and staff...we would start restructuring and extending players. It would not surprise me a bit if this team doesn’t reach expectations Reich is let go, we trade a couple guys to get ammo to move up in the draft and get a QB hand picked by our new staff with Ryan to bridge/groom the new guy for a year or two. Definitely a hot take and plenty of reasons why I’m wrong. 

[Chucklez]

Let me answer your question with a question. 

If Matt Ryan breaks his arm in game 1 and never plays another down and Foles is QB 1 from week 2 and we go 9-8, do you fire him with Foles taking us to 9-8 over the course of an entire season?

You'd be crazy if you answer that with yes.

[2006Coltsbestever]

The thing about the AFC is 10 teams could win 11 games if everything rolls right = Buffalo, KC, Chargers, Broncos, Raiders, Cincy, Baltimore, Tennessee, Colts, and even the Pats. Winning the division gets us in automatically. I will say this Miami will be good too, Browns probably not because I don't think Watson plays this year due to what is going on. Regarding the Steelers, Trubisky  - they will go 8-9, hey Tomlin welcome to Frank's world when we had JB. The average world.

 

Playoff teams will be:

1. Bills 13-4 = East winner

 

2. KC 12-5 = even without Hill they will still be good, but very beatable. West winner.

 

3. Bengals 11-6 = North winner

 

4. Colts 11-6 = South winner

 

Wildcards will be - Chargers, Broncos, and Ravens. I will take a picture of this so I remember this post. Raiders, Pats, and Tennessee just miss because they won't win their divisions. The Browns are a mess as usual, no need to explain there  

 

 

[Four2itus]

No. Given his challenges, and the record he has posted, he has earned the right to finish his contract. If the Colts have not taken back the division by the time it is up, then he may be replaced.

 

Frank will not be fired. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Let me answer your question with a question. 

If Matt Ryan breaks his arm in game 1 and never plays another down and Foles is QB 1 from week 2 and we go 9-8, do you fire him with Foles taking us to 9-8 over the course of an entire season?

You'd be crazy if you answer that with yes.

 

7 minutes ago, Chucklez said:

Let me answer your question with a question. 

If Matt Ryan breaks his arm in game 1 and never plays another down and Foles is QB 1 from week 2 and we go 9-8, do you fire him with Foles taking us to 9-8 over the course of an entire season?

You'd be crazy if you answer that with yes.

Of course, I mean if we stay healthy is there any reason why we shouldn't win the division. We can twist it 1000 ways. Yeah if Taylor blows his Achilles out in week 1 then things change or if Ryan gets injured then things change. All things being equal = everyone healthy in our division, my thread is an easy yes or no.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

No. Given his challenges, and the record he has posted, he has earned the right to finish his contract. If the Colts have not taken back the division by the time it is up, then he may be replaced.

 

Frank will not be fired. 

His record is good and I like the guy but we should win the division this year.

[Hoose]

So many facts have to be analyzed before a decision like this could be made. 

1. What factor did key injuries ( there will always be a few ) have in the team's final record?

2. Was the team prepared for each game, and competitive?

3. How did Matt Ryan play? 

4. Did the WR corps show it had the proper depth to hold up over a full season?

5. Was the offensive play calling still a problem even with Matt Ryan at the helm?

6. Did Bradley's D prove to be an improvement over Flus', giving the O the extra possessions it takes to win the tight games?

7. Are the young players showing the necessary improvement over the season to give confidence that the foundation is strong moving forward?

 

Etc., etc. To suggest that not making the playoffs gets Reich fired is silly without asking all of these questions and more. If the team misses the playoffs because of an injury riddled poor start but is surging at the end of the year and just finishes out of the running, you're going to fire the coach right then and there? I think not. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Hoose said:

So many facts have to be analyzed before a decision like this could be made. 

1. What factor did key injuries ( there will always be a few ) have in the team's final record?

2. Was the team prepared for each game, and competitive?

3. How did Matt Ryan play? 

4. Did the WR corps show it had the proper depth to hold up over a full season?

5. Was the offensive play calling still a problem even with Matt Ryan at the helm?

6. Did Bradley's D prove to be an improvement over Flus', giving the O the extra possessions it takes to win the tight games?

7. Are the young players showing the necessary improvement over the season to give confidence that the foundation is strong moving forward?

 

Etc., etc. To suggest that not making the playoffs gets Reich fired is silly without asking all of these questions and more. If the team misses the playoffs because of an injury riddled poor start but is surging at the end of the year and just finishes out of the running, you're going to fire the coach right then and there? I think not. 

I should have titled the thread if we stay healthy at the key positions, should Reich be fired if we don't win the AFC South. I just assumed everyone would know what I meant. My bad.