Sirianni in the Playoffs we are staying home.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

You don’t know what you wanted, but you got what you expected. 

Nice non-answer answer.   Par for the course. 

 

I've been pretty clear what I want. 

But in this day in age, what actually is going on, or whatever the plan might be, is simply rarely, or ever shared... 

And yes, I got exactly what I expected. Fluff... 

Keep chopping wood NCF, and keep gushing over coach/GM speak!

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

the common denominator... Wentz

 

Well, do me a favor. 

 

Check out Rivers' improvement from 2019 to 2020 (TD/INT ratio, and TD% and INT%), when he came into a situation with a top 5 pass pro.

 

Then check out Wentz's improvement from 2020 to 2021 (TD/INT ratio), even though he came into a bottom 5 pass pro.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I've been pretty clear what I want. 

But in this day in age, what actually is going on, or whatever the plan might be, is simply rarely, or ever shared... 

And yes, I got exactly what I expected. Fluff... 

Keep chopping wood NCF, and keep gushing over coach/GM speak!

Who’s gushing.   They were highly professional.  They didn’t throw anyone under the bus.   They took responsibility. 
 

No wonder you’re not happy.   You have no idea how to respond to professionals.   It’s over your head. 

[NewColtsFan]

15 minutes ago, csmopar said:

the common denominator... Wentz

For me, the common denominator was….  Injuries.   
 

The very good Philly OL in 19 was wiped out by injuries in 20.   Wentz suffered. 
 

The very good Colts OL in 18, 19, 20,  was wiped out by injuries in 21.   Wentz suffered. 
 

The quarterback could’ve been anyone.   The key were the injuries.    

[EastStreet]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Who’s gushing.   They were highly professional.  They didn’t throw anyone under the bus.   They took responsibility. 
 

No wonder you’re not happy.   You have no idea how to respond to professionals.   It’s over your head. 

 

LOL... I just said it was coach speak, and what I expected. 

Why would I be unhappy or shocked when I know exactly what's going to be said... 

 

In my career, I have to exec-speak all the time. It's the same. Say a lot of nothing... and sound "professional"... just god forbid, whatever you do, don't say anything to offend anyone even if it's true, and whenever possible, hand out a verbal participation trophy to as many people possible.

 

The Ps and VPs I hang with all laugh about the utter nonsense we have to get up and spew for the sake of being "highly professional".... It's a freaking game. 

 

And you always gush over Reich, Ballard, etc... You're a gusher... 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Some QBs simply require different things to be successful. Rivers for instance had some very bad to mediocre years with bad OLs, despite having good WR options. People also questioned his decision making. He turned in a very improved performance behind our top 5 pass pro last year. That said, Wentz's 2021 improvement in TD% and INT% was better than River's 2020 improvement. Rivers is obviously heads and tails better in the short game and TtT (he's been elite in those areas), which helps him.

 

That said, Rivers behind a bad OL in 2019, threw 23 TDs and 20 INTs. That's similar to Carson's 2020 16/15... Rivers improved his 23/20 to 24/11 with a top 5 pass pro. Wentz had a bottom 5 pass pro, and improved his 16/15 to 27/7...... It takes some mental gymnastics to ignore that improvement. Again, not giving Wentz a pass, but it's pretty clear that some basics things aren't even considered. 

 

You say stuff like "mental gymnastics to ignore that improvement" and it makes me think you're not really responding to me, more to the general tone of the board, which I'm not adopting.

 

Rivers from 2019 to 2020 is a different situation. Rivers was always a highly efficient QB who performed well within the structure of the offense, but had some physical limitations, particularly with his legs. At his worst, he'd turn the ball over too much, but he was never a reckless decision maker. In 2020, with good OL play, he took better care of the ball had a nice season.

 

Wentz was always a gunslinger who was physically gifted, could make plays off script, but tended to play hero ball with varying results. His fundamentals deteriorated, and his production tanked. He came here and played much better, but his technique, anticipation, performance under pressure, etc., still need a lot of improvement. 

 

I don't have to extend a pass to any other unit on the team to zero in on Wentz's issues. Multiple things can be true at the same time. 

[Superman]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

LOL... I just said it was coach speak, and what I expected. 

 

The pros and cons of coach speak are obvious. Ultimately, what matters is what they do, not their tone in pressers. IMO. 

 

But to whatever extent the staff is measured in their words and tone, there's no 'keep chopping wood' sentiment being expressed. It's pretty obvious that, if they did think they had all the right stuff, they realize now that they do not have enough. The culture and locker room might be on track, but the talent and ability on the roster, and the execution (which includes coaching) are not good enough.

 

And I think that's being expressed most clearly by Irsay. It's like they like the team and the culture, but they're aware that intensity, effort level, focus, toughness (mentally, physically, and otherwise), are not where they have to be. And that's fine.

 

What really matters is what they do to try to fix these issues -- talent, and intensity -- and what results come from those efforts. 

[NewColtsFan]

26 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

LOL... I just said it was coach speak, and what I expected. 

Why would I be unhappy or shocked when I know exactly what's going to be said... 

 

In my career, I have to exec-speak all the time. It's the same. Say a lot of nothing... and sound "professional"... just god forbid, whatever you do, don't say anything to offend anyone even if it's true, and whenever possible, hand out a verbal participation trophy to as many people possible.

 

The Ps and VPs I hang with all laugh about the utter nonsense we have to get up and spew for the sake of being "highly professional".... It's a freaking game. 

 

And you always gush over Reich, Ballard, etc... You're a gusher... 

 

You think I’m a gusher.   I think you’re a hater.
 

There’s very few things we are about.   You’re fine with that, and so am I.    
 

By the way, comparing whatever private business you’re in with the running of an NFL team is completely ridiculous and lame.   Tell me, when the P’s and VP’s you hang with spew things to be professional (your words) are those meetings covered by the national and local media?  I didn’t think so.   Did people write stories about what was said and not said?   I didn’t think so.    Did you see detailed stories on national and local TV and Radio for days and days?   I didn’t think so. 
 

Any other lame comparisons?   Yeah, I didn’t think so. 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

You say stuff like "mental gymnastics to ignore that improvement" and it makes me think you're not really responding to me, more to the general tone of the board, which I'm not adopting.

 

Rivers from 2019 to 2020 is a different situation. Rivers was always a highly efficient QB who performed well within the structure of the offense, but had some physical limitations, particularly with his legs. At his worst, he'd turn the ball over too much, but he was never a reckless decision maker. In 2020, with good OL play, he took better care of the ball had a nice season.

 

Wentz was always a gunslinger who was physically gifted, could make plays off script, but tended to play hero ball with varying results. His fundamentals deteriorated, and his production tanked. He came here and played much better, but his technique, anticipation, performance under pressure, etc., still need a lot of improvement. 

 

I don't have to extend a pass to any other unit on the team to zero in on Wentz's issues. Multiple things can be true at the same time. 

 

We've been talking decision making. Rivers decision making was absolutely in question when we signed him. 

 

I don't see it as different at all. Both had high turnover ratios the year prior to coming to Indy. That's decision making however you want to spin it. Both improved. Wentz improved more. And Rivers had a much better OL, and had twice as many snaps from TY. 

 

I don't disagree that Rivers is historically an accurate QB who has a quick trigger. I also don't disagree Wentz has the gunslinger's soul. But the stats are the stats. You can't simply brush aside the significant improvement in those areas by Wentz, with a much lesser OL. 

 

And like I said, I'm not giving Wentz a pass. He needs to improve in several areas. I'm just not going to ignore things that are obvious like Wentz vs Rivers comps coming to Indy, OL issues, TY playing less than half the snaps, etc.. They all factor. 

 

By the way, I wouldn't shed a tear if we replaced Wentz with an upgrade. I'm not sold on him long term at all. I loved Rivers last year, but moved on quickly. I'm just not going to be convenient or dishonest in how I view the larger picture. 

[EastStreet]

17 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The pros and cons of coach speak are obvious. Ultimately, what matters is what they do, not their tone in pressers. IMO. 

 

But to whatever extent the staff is measured in their words and tone, there's no 'keep chopping wood' sentiment being expressed. It's pretty obvious that, if they did think they had all the right stuff, they realize now that they do not have enough. The culture and locker room might be on track, but the talent and ability on the roster, and the execution (which includes coaching) are not good enough.

 

And I think that's being expressed most clearly by Irsay. It's like they like the team and the culture, but they're aware that intensity, effort level, focus, toughness (mentally, physically, and otherwise), are not where they have to be. And that's fine.

 

What really matters is what they do to try to fix these issues -- talent, and intensity -- and what results come from those efforts. 

 

Agree all that matters is what they do.

 

But I'm not sure you can say they like the team and culture, while also saying they don't like intensity, effort, toughness, etc.. 

Those are all things integral to culture. 

 

I expected Irsay to come off unhappy. But it was a "keep buying tix" move to me as much as it was simply communicating his unhappiness. I expected CB and FR to fall on the sword and say what they said. 

 

I'll reserve my judgement for after whatever changes happen. I'm on record already saying I think scheme is a large issue on both sides of the ball. And I just don't have high confidence we'll see scheme change either place. 

 

Anyway, we'll see. I really don't care enough about Owner/GM/HC speak. It's  99% Peanut's (Charlie Brown) teacher speak these days from every team. 

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

You think I’m a gusher.   I think you’re a hater.
 

There’s very few things we are about.   You’re fine with that, and so am I.    
 

By the way, comparing whatever private business you’re in with the running of an NFL team is completely ridiculous and lame.   Tell me, when the P’s and VP’s you hang with spew things to be professional (your words) are those meetings covered by the national and local media?  I didn’t think so.   Did people write stories about what was said and not said?   I didn’t think so.    Did you see detailed stories on national and local TV and Radio for days and days?   I didn’t think so. 
 

Any other lame comparisons?   Yeah, I didn’t think so. 

I've been on the radio and TV before, if that answers your question. And in two different countries. 

I won't say I'm the best presenter/presser guy, but it's been part of the job for 20+ years. 

And I'm sure Ballard privately laughs about the crap too. His body language suggests he's in pain half the time lol. Thought his face was going to twitch off when Gregg Doyell's turn came up. 

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

We've been talking decision making. Rivers decision making was absolutely in question when we signed him. 

 

I don't see it as different at all. Both had high turnover ratios the year prior to coming to Indy. That's decision making however you want to spin it. Both improved. Wentz improved more. And Rivers had a much better OL, and had twice as many snaps from TY. 

 

I don't disagree that Rivers is historically an accurate QB who has a quick trigger. I also don't disagree Wentz has the gunslinger's soul. But the stats are the stats. You can't simply brush aside the significant improvement in those areas by Wentz, with a much lesser OL. 

 

And like I said, I'm not giving Wentz a pass. He needs to improve in several areas. I'm just not going to ignore things that are obvious like Wentz vs Rivers comps coming to Indy, OL issues, TY playing less than half the snaps, etc.. They all factor. 

 

By the way, I wouldn't shed a tear if we replaced Wentz with an upgrade. I'm not sold on him long term at all. I loved Rivers last year, but moved on quickly. I'm just not going to be convenient or dishonest in how I view the larger picture. 

 

The bolded is also an over simplification and an example of lumping things in together unnecessarily. 

 

I'm questioning Wentz's decision making, not because he might occasionally challenge coverage down field and throw some picks. I'm talking about not doing stupid stuff under pressure. The questions about Rivers throwing too many picks in 2019 are very different from the questions about Wentz not throwing checkdowns, or throwing while being tackled.

 

And again, I'm not brushing aside the circumstances or the consequences. As with everything else, you cant just throw out a stat to explain a situation. Two QBs with 7.0 yards/attempt and the same TD/INT numbers aren't necessarily bringing the same strengths/weaknesses to the table. One might need some minor adjustments, the other might be fatally flawed. I don't know if Wentz is fatally flawed, but I'm much more concerned about his decision making than I was with his mechanics.

 

For that matter, I'm more concerned with his decision making than I am with the pass pro. This staff has shown an ability to put a good OL on the field. Will Wentz show better anticipation and more decisiveness moving forward? I'd be more willing to bet on the former than the latter.

 

And I'll point out that I was very much in favor of trading for Wentz before the season. This is not like a person openly disliking a player, and then distorting whatever facts they can to support their predispositions. I'm saying that the concerns I have about Wentz are probably more deeply seated than I realized before this season. And I'm not laying all the blame at his feet, either.

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The bolded is also an over simplification and an example of lumping things in together unnecessarily. 

 

I'm questioning Wentz's decision making, not because he might occasionally challenge coverage down field and throw some picks. I'm talking about not doing stupid stuff under pressure. The questions about Rivers throwing too many picks in 2019 are very different from the questions about Wentz not throwing checkdowns, or throwing while being tackled.

 

And again, I'm not brushing aside the circumstances or the consequences. As with everything else, you cant just throw out a stat to explain a situation. Two QBs with 7.0 yards/attempt and the same TD/INT numbers aren't necessarily bringing the same strengths/weaknesses to the table. One might need some minor adjustments, the other might be fatally flawed. I don't know if Wentz is fatally flawed, but I'm much more concerned about his decision making than I was with his mechanics.

 

For that matter, I'm more concerned with his decision making than I am with the pass pro. This staff has shown an ability to put a good OL on the field. Will Wentz show better anticipation and more decisiveness moving forward? I'd be more willing to bet on the former than the latter.

 

And I'll point out that I was very much in favor of trading for Wentz before the season. This is not like a person openly disliking a player, and then distorting whatever facts they can to support their predispositions. I'm saying that the concerns I have about Wentz are probably more deeply seated than I realized before this season. And I'm not laying all the blame at his feet, either.

 

I have different memories of Rivers than you. I recall plenty of bone headed decisions. To me, tossing a wounded duck while under pressure into triple coverage is every bit as bad as a bone headed shovel pass. At the end of the day, Wentz had more TDs and less INTs than Rivers (in terms of improvement). Sure, that's simple. But it's so basic I'm not sure how one can dismiss it. Rivers has historically performed bad to mediocre when his OL is bad. He had a good OL here, much better than Wentz, but Wentz still had a better TD/INT ratio. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that. Wentz absolutely needs to improve in several areas. But not sure why were somehow canonizing Rivers given his history. We both agree he needs to improve, but like I said, we just disagree on ability to grade fairly. I personally give zero Fs who is under center next season if they play well. That's all I really care about. I'm just not going to flog Wentz till a change is made.  

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

But I'm not sure you can say they like the team and culture, while also saying they don't like intensity, effort, toughness, etc.. 

Those are all things integral to culture. 

 

I expected Irsay to come off unhappy. But it was a "keep buying tix" move to me as much as it was simply communicating his unhappiness. I expected CB and FR to fall on the sword and say what they said. 

 

Your take on Irsay is kind of cynical, and not in keeping with Irsay's MO. We disagree, but whatever.

 

As for the first part, of course you can. "I like this house, the structure is great, rooms are big, nice lot size, but the finishings are out of date, and the AC doesn't work well." 

 

The team fought back from an awful start, they got back into the mix, had some big wins against good teams, stuck together along the way. Then they lost focus for whatever reason(s). So to whatever extent they thought they had this figured out, it's clear now that they still have some work to do. The structure is still sound (presumably), but the finish work is still being completed.

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Your take on Irsay is kind of cynical, and not in keeping with Irsay's MO. We disagree, but whatever.

 

As for the first part, of course you can. "I like this house, the structure is great, rooms are big, nice lot size, but the finishings are out of date, and the AC doesn't work well." 

 

The team fought back from an awful start, they got back into the mix, had some big wins against good teams, stuck together along the way. Then they lost focus for whatever reason(s). So to whatever extent they thought they had this figured out, it's clear now that they still have some work to do. The structure is still sound (presumably), but the finish work is still being completed.

 

People buy houses for all kinds of reasons. You'd have to define comps for the analogy to even be worth a debate. Intensity, toughness, and those things you mention, are all huge parts of culture to me, like the bones of a house. Players and coaches come and go, and are like paint, carpet, window treatments, etc.. 

 

If you see play calling, scheme, and motivational coaching as paint, sign me up for some new Benjamin Moore. 

 

On Irsay, I like Jim. He's imperfect, but I actually like him more for his imperfections. But I've heard the passion from him before. It just doesn't move the needle for me. Like you said earlier, it's all about what they do, not what they say. If that's cynical, c'est la vie.. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

People buy houses for all kinds of reasons. You'd have to define comps for the analogy to even be worth a debate. Intensity, toughness, and those things you mention, are all huge parts of culture to me, like the bones of a house. Players and coaches come and go, and are like paint, carpet, window treatments, etc.. 

 

If you see play calling, scheme, and motivational coaching as paint, sign me up for some new Benjamin Moore. 

 

On Irsay, I like Jim. He's imperfect, but I actually like him more for his imperfections. But I've heard the passion from him before. It just doesn't move the needle for me. Like you said earlier, it's all about what they do, not what they say. If that's cynical, c'est la vie.. 

 

The cynical part was saying it's all about ticket sales. 

 

As for the rest, I think we've made our respective points. Good talk. 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

The cynical part was saying it's all about ticket sales. 

 

As for the rest, I think we've made our respective points. Good talk. 

 

It's a business. I'm not doubting his love for the game, or desire to win. I just don't suffer the emotional stuff these days. 

I was taught at an early age to listen intently and take to heart things folks say..... the first time. And continue to do so only if the first time held weight over time. What we hear for the most part these days from owners, GMs, and coaches is mostly business speak. And it simply lacks substance and rarely stands up to later action. We got messaging in prior years that lacked transparency about injury and player status in the pre-season, during ticket sale time.... I don't forget those moments. So if it's cynicism, sorry, but not sorry. I'm the kid in grade school that would tell clergy to ease up on the guilt monologue, and put more effort in WIIFM... emotional stuff, heart string tugs, etc.. their success is only temporary. 

[AKB]

I think that Wentz did improve and show some glimpses of greatness.  There were a few throws where I thought out loud, and literally said there are very few QBs that can do what he just did.  However, his propensity to throw to covered receivers, or to randomly fling the ball in any direction while he is taking a sack, is an insane liability for our team, in particular our defense.  it was gut wrenching to see carson squander a good chunk of the 33 takeaways that our defense handed him.  Many times we came away with no points, and he  missed check downs to move the chains.  if he can fix a few issues he would be a top 5 qb in the league. right now he is lucky to mentioned next to people like Jamies Winston. 

[hoosierhawk]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Patrick Mahomes.

 

Out of all reasonable options? Not sure. I don't think there's a lot of opportunity to upgrade the position in 2022. I think there's something to be said for having the same QB two years in a row. But Wentz now strikes me as a liability because of his decision making. So I think, if we keep him, we have to tailor the passing game to make things easier for him, pre and post snap. 

I agree Wentz has had several bad decisions that where consistent over the course of the season. I also agree we have to tailor the passing game to make it easier.  My problem is we have played 17 games and I have seen no scheme change. I have heard for 4 years what a QB whisper our HC is and yet after 17 games he has not made a change of scheme to our passing game in spite of an OL that was not near as effective as the past few years and a receiving core that fell short of expectations with no #1 WR and TEs that were bad this year. I still would like Frank to give up play calling and coach the entire team and coaches. Tailoring the passing game is a great start on offense. Re scheming the D will require a new coordinator but as the HC I assume that is his call to Ballard also. 

[ojsglove]

23 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Nope, not at all.

 

Last year they had the 14th hardest schedule.

this year, the 28th hardest schedule. 

That's a big deal, no?

 

Also a big factor.... Philly's OL was ranked 4th this year... as opposed to the cluster it was all year in 2020. Both Ts and C graded 80+... We had one guy graded in the 80s, and it was only an 81 lol. 

 

And the Colts..... well they were 30th this year in pass blocking... 

 

to repeat

 

Colts were 30th in pass blocking this year.... 

Again, we basically had the same team we put on the field last season - Sirianni but a supposedly upgrade at QB, hand picked by our HC???

[Malakai432]

23 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Nope, not at all.

 

Last year they had the 14th hardest schedule.

this year, the 28th hardest schedule. 

That's a big deal, no?

 

Also a big factor.... Philly's OL was ranked 4th this year... as opposed to the cluster it was all year in 2020. Both Ts and C graded 80+... We had one guy graded in the 80s, and it was only an 81 lol. 

 

And the Colts..... well they were 30th this year in pass blocking... 

 

to repeat

 

Colts were 30th in pass blocking this year.... 

 

That's rough!!!!! I'm wondering if it was a combination of injures, Wentz's inability to check down and quick release, WRs lack of separation, system with routes taking too long to develop, lol........  I'm guessing E perhaps, all of the above.  

[NewColtsFan]

18 minutes ago, ojsglove said:

Again, we basically had the same team we put on the field last season - Sirianni but a supposedly upgrade at QB, hand picked by our HC???

Hand picked by the head coach, but also approved by the general manager.   If you’re going to miss, wouldn’t you prefer to miss having spent a 1 and a 3 rather than having spent two 1’s and two 3’s or even more?!? 

 

 

[throwing BBZ]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

What's clear, is that last week, the entire team took a dump. 

 

99% of the board is nit picking Carson. Even hearing about ego lol....

And ... In just about every thread (done here in the NS thread lol)... 

He had his worst game of the year no doubt.

The OL had easily their worst game of the year. Season high sacks. 

Fisher was so bad he got yanked for Pryor.

Kelly, one of the top paid Cs, looked pretty bad too.

Our DL got manhandled, and by an OL that IIRC was missing their starting LT and C....

Defo, one of our biggest investments, and one of the highest paid 3Ts in the league, got a grand total of zero pressures.

Our D in general, was so bad, we let the worst passer rating QB in the league turn in a 112... Just like we did last year with Minshew..

Kenny Moore, our best DB, was burnt toast several times.

Our coach is now 0-4 in Jax, one of the worst teams in the league over that span.... 

 

I can go on.

Just funny how everyone seems to be getting a pass but Carson lol... 

Fire everyone!

 

  Fire in order... Upgrade

  Wentz - his brain is a dud

   Reich - as playcaller - we had a couple games showing creativity

  Eberflus - incredibly passive

   Kelly - technically sound - physically unable

   Grover - he Never penetrates, disrupts

    Willis - a 65 when we need an 80

    Okereke a 58 when we need a 75

    Mo-Allie a 60 when we need a 70+  gotta threaten the seam

 

        lol to CB filling our most important needs

   

[coltsfeva]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It can be hard to determine where scheme/play calling ends, and QBing begins. But as I've rewatched some of Wentz's play, he turned down a lot of opportunities for easy completions throughout the year. 

 

So we don't have a dynamic receiving corps, but options were open early in plays, more often than the results might indicate. Nothing super explosive or dynamic, but just options to keep the ball moving. Yet, Wentz was at 2.78 seconds per drop back. You're asking for trouble.

 

And that's the problem I have with Wentz. He's talented, he's tough, he has a good level of athleticism especially when he's healthy (and he might not have been healthy all year). But his decision making is terrible, especially under pressure. One way for the team to handle that is to do better in pass pro. But it still falls on the QB to make good decisions. And being better at getting rid of the ball before pressure reaches you will reduce some of those issues he has when under pressure. 

 

So what was be being coached to do? It's hard to imagine that the staff wasn't showing him his missed opportunities for early completions. I think he's a bad decision maker. I think the scheme will have to force him to make better decisions, maybe by simplifying his pre and post snap looks, maybe in other ways as well.

 

Back to the point, he has to take some of the blame for the amount of pressure he faced this season. Not all of it, but it doesn't work for me to use poor pass pro as an excuse for his play, in general. At times, sure. But even Sunday when the OL was getting whipped, he missed open receivers. It's a compound issue. 

   Agreed and I see him targeting Pittman much the same way he targeted Ertz in Philly. The underneath guy is open and he throws to Pittman (or whoever he is locked in on), in double or triple coverage and I’m not sure you can coach this out of him, although Reich believes he can.

[AwesomeAustin]

Our situation is one of the few times where bringing back most of the roster and coaches is probably the best choice. 
 

Wentz showed great improvement in a lot of areas to warrant another year.  He has a lot to work on for us to be SB contenders so criticisms are justified. If he can improve 10-20% we will have a very good QB leading the charge. 
 

The OL regressed bc of injuries. They have been relatively awesome for years so I would assume we should see improvement on that front.  LT is a big question mark and will need to be addressed.  I don’t know if Fisher having more time to recover is enough or another player at the position is the answer. I lean to bringing him back with Pryor to battle it out while we look for a rookie to draft when available. 
 

WR is a definite need. Health from Campbell, development from younger players and adding a #2 caliber receiver via FA is my vote for this year.  You find stars at this position in the draft or by trade.
 

DL.  If one is BPA in the draft you take him. Paye and Dayo must come thru here.  Lewis was looking like he was turning the corner but his ACL injury probably puts him a year away from getting back to where he was.  That’s unfortunate bc I thought he was going to be an excellent rotational piece for this team. The other two 2nd round picks are JAGs and should be switched out for low priced FAs that are looking for an opportunity to play and show what they have.  I really don’t know what to do with Grover. I can see him being a cap casualty this year or next but really need to look into his play and contract more. 
 

CB. RYS is a starter.  I’ve seen enough from him to think he should be resigned.  Kenny Moore and Rodgers should also remain on the team. I think Kenny is a bit over rated and does not play vertical routes well. Rodgers just needs to keep playing.  He may have reached his ceiling already but he has been good enough to easily be #3 outside corner.   If there was a position to spend on in FA this one is it. Of all the positions that need upgraded, I think this is the one we can spend a bit on and hit pay dirt for 2-3 years. Still, if BPA is CB you take him.  This is another position you keep searching until you find the one. 
 

TE. I have no idea how to judge MAC. For some reason I get the vibe the coaches don’t fully trust him. Some stats say they should but I also see stuff I don’t like about him.  I think he is average and aggravating but really should watch more film before I judge. Still, I’m fine with him on the roster bc his floor is still pretty high. The rookie should keep developing.  He can go either way so it’s a wait and see.  This is another position that could be filled in FA on a 1-2yr deal. Also, if the BPA in the 2nd or 3rd is a TE I wouldn’t hate that pick. 
 

LBs. Leonard is the best LB in the league.  Okereke is a liability and we should have kept Walker.  We should be looking to replace him or demote to rotational player if someone in the draft or FA comes available. Speed and Franklin are great depth.  
 

Safety. Blackmon should be playing SS. He is a good player and I hope he recovers well. However he needs to run towards the LOS not away.   I think we can find a Mike Adams type of veteran to play FS so Willis can be the 3rd safety that plays in the box on some looks or valuable depth.  
 

RB.  We are good here.  Just need to tweak our usage to get Hines on the field too. 
 

ST.  We have got to keep looking for a better kicker.  The two we have are nearly automatic 40yds and under. We need one that can consistently hit in that 40-49yd range. Most kickers struggles start over 50 but if we can find one that can hit at least 65% we can start kicking FGs instead of going for it on 4th down.  Too many points were left on the table.  Would rather take the 3 and flip field position than risk giving the team the ball at our 40. 
 

Sorry for the long breakdown but I hope it highlights that just a few tweaks need to be made.  The bulk of the roster is there and we need more time playing together and health with a couple playmakers added via the draft, trade or FA. Help is needed but the biggest improvement we could see with this team is if the staff and roster help themselves by doing their job 10-20% better. 

 

[dw49]

On 1/15/2022 at 10:38 AM, Superman said:

 

By what metrics? 

 

It's true the OL struggled in pass pro, which is not what we expected (well, at least aside from LT). Wentz had his worst game of the year last week, and he missed plenty of reads and made several stupid decisions, but the OL was getting worked most of the game also. Yet everyone has indicted Wentz only, which is interesting.

 

Still, the OL issues matched with Wentz's propensity to hold the ball too long, and miss the check downs, is a recipe for disaster. You take an OL that has some struggles in pass pro -- mostly due to injuries, IMO -- and combine it with a QB who doesn't appear to be on point with his progressions, and you get what we saw against the Jaguars.

 

Some of this is play calling also. 

 

 

Totally agree . I didn't read this whole thread but if not mentioned , I'd like to add that not only injuries during the year but there was probably a pretty big covid hangover the last 2 weeks.

[DougDew]

6 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 Kelly - technically sound - physically unable

   Grover - he Never penetrates, disrupts

    Willis - a 65 when we need an 80

    Okereke a 58 when we need a 75

    Mo-Allie a 60 when we need a 70+  gotta threaten the seam

Yup.  100% agree on all of these players.  Some might get a mid low round draft pick.

 

[DougDew]

4 hours ago, AwesomeAustin said:

Wentz showed great improvement in a lot of areas to warrant another year.  He has a lot to work on for us to be SB contenders so criticisms are justified. If he can improve 10-20% we will have a very good QB leading the charge. 

Yep.  After the emotion settles down and the analysis settles in about who Carson is and what the alternatives are, keeping him AND supporting him is the best choice.

 

All QBs need time with their Receivers.  Bring in Ertz and a vet so that the cohesion can get going in TC and preseason.  Ballard said that he likes the young receivers....and we have a bunch....another young draft pick is NOT what we need. 

 

Fix the LT spot by signing Pryor to start and draft the future LT with the second round pick.  I'm hoping that Bernhard Raimann checks the boxes during the predraft analysis. 

 

Two new veteran targets in Ertz and ANYBODY reliable.  A (hopefully) healthy Parris.  More focus on the short passing game by plays directed at Hines by Frank.  A better LT situation and a healthy Oline.

 

All of these relatively easy moves should come together to help Wentz have a very good AND consistent year.

[DougDew]

Interesting how Aikman is pointing out the consistent one on one coverage of Davonte Smith by TB, but that Sirianni is still SCHEMING cute plays.   These analytics based play callers are simple control freaks, LOL.

 

Wentz did much better against TB.  Even with throwing 26 passes in a row....

[AwesomeAustin]

50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Yep.  After the emotion settles down and the analysis settles in about who Carson is and what the alternatives are, keeping him AND supporting him is the best choice.

 

All QBs need time with their Receivers.  Bring in Ertz and a vet so that the cohesion can get going in TC and preseason.  Ballard said that he likes the young receivers....and we have a bunch....another young draft pick is NOT what we need. 

 

Fix the LT spot by signing Pryor to start and draft the future LT with the second round pick.  I'm hoping that Bernhard Raimann checks the boxes during the predraft analysis. 

 

Two new veteran targets in Ertz and ANYBODY reliable.  A (hopefully) healthy Parris.  More focus on the short passing game by plays directed at Hines by Frank.  A better LT situation and a healthy Oline.

 

All of these relatively easy moves should come together to help Wentz have a very good AND consistent year.

This.   He deserves another year.  He very well may not be the guy.  The critics are valid with their concerns.  Just not enough to me to send him packing.  With Wentz, Player development, draft picks, smart FA pickups and better coaching we can make the AFC championship game.  If we trade for Wilson, another QB or to move up and draft a guy we will not have a chance.  Building this team for another year is our best choice right now. 

[IndySouthsider]

17 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

This.   He deserves another year.  He very well may not be the guy.  The critics are valid with their concerns.  Just not enough to me to send him packing.  With Wentz, Player development, draft picks, smart FA pickups and better coaching we can make the AFC championship game.  If we trade for Wilson, another QB or to move up and draft a guy we will not have a chance.  Building this team for another year is our best choice right now. 

Based on history. Wentz isn’t a fighter. He has been called out by his bosses and I don't see how you come back from that.

[AwesomeAustin]

1 minute ago, IndySouthsider said:

Based on history. Wentz isn’t a fighter. He has been called out by his bosses and I don't see how you come back from that.

I don’t think he has been called out. I think they refused to center the conversation on the QB.  There would have been a media $hitstorm if they would of come out and said Wentz is not the problem.  The media feeds on whatever controversy they can connect imaginary dots to create.  They touched on the topic but transitioned to it was a team failure.  That’s what it was.
 

 Plus the main criticism is Wentz fights too much.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

I don’t think he has been called out. I think they refused to center the conversation on the QB.  There would have been a media $hitstorm if they would of come out and said Wentz is not the problem.  The media feeds on whatever controversy they can connect imaginary dots to create.  They touched on the topic but transitioned to it was a team failure.  That’s what it was.
 

 Plus the main criticism is Wentz fights too much.  

Had Wentz been in Philly today and played like Hurts did, the Philly media would eat him alive. Hurts won't get near the criticism and he isn't that good. The media there needed  a scapegoat and it was Wentz. Problem with Wentz being here, he needs to be at least good because if you are going to follow Peyton, Luck, and Rivers and you can't lay 2 eggs in a row with a chance to make the playoffs. We are a forgiving media but to a point.

[CoachLite]

55 minutes ago, IndySouthsider said:

Based on history. Wentz isn’t a fighter. He has been called out by his bosses and I don't see how you come back from that.

Wentz was brought in to play quarterback, not be a fighter.  Fighters play an individual sport. Football is a team sport. PS, his bosses are part of that team.

[EastStreet]

18 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

 

That's rough!!!!! I'm wondering if it was a combination of injures, Wentz's inability to check down and quick release, WRs lack of separation, system with routes taking too long to develop, lol........  I'm guessing E perhaps, all of the above.  

We had a lot of issues, but the OL just plain sucked in a few places. Injuries for sure though. Again, the PFF OL grades are based on individual performance and individual assignments. The QB and WRs can help the rankings, but they really don't "hurt" them. 

[AwesomeAustin]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Had Wentz been in Philly today and played like Hurts did, the Philly media would eat him alive. Hurts won't get near the criticism and he isn't that good. The media there needed  a scapegoat and it was Wentz. Problem with Wentz being here, he needs to be at least good because if you are going to follow Peyton, Luck, and Rivers and you can't lay 2 eggs in a row with a chance to make the playoffs. We are a forgiving media but to a point.

You are right there.  I think Wentz deserves plenty of criticism.  The teams success hinges off him.  I just think it’s going to far and I’m not ready to railroad him out of town. Just 10-15% improvement is possible #1 seed.  It’s that freakin close. If I’ve ever learned anything as an owner of a company is firing people is always last case scenario.  You review what happened, how to prevent and build on it, then get back at it with a plan in place and higher awareness of your strengths and weaknesses. People thrive when they are close and you tool them up with what they need to succeed. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

You are right there.  I think Wentz deserves plenty of criticism.  The teams success hinges off him.  I just think it’s going to far and I’m not ready to railroad him out of town. Just 10-15% improvement is possible #1 seed.  It’s that freakin close. If I’ve ever learned anything as an owner of a company is firing people is always last case scenario.  You review what happened, how to prevent and build on it, then get back at it with a plan in place and higher awareness of your strengths and weaknesses. People thrive when they are close and you tool them up with what they need to succeed. 

Yeah I honestly don't know the answer because we were so close to being 12-5 in a lot of ways but we weren't. We were still good at 9-8 but last the 2 weeks were shocking.

Jimmy missed that one but you can do that when you are up 23-7  

[IndySouthsider]

48 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Wentz was brought in to play quarterback, not be a fighter.  Fighters play an individual sport. Football is a team sport. PS, his bosses are part of that team.

He won't fight for his job.

[EastStreet]

9 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  Fire in order... Upgrade

  Wentz - his brain is a dud

   Reich - as playcaller - we had a couple games showing creativity

  Eberflus - incredibly passive

   Kelly - technically sound - physically unable

   Grover - he Never penetrates, disrupts

    Willis - a 65 when we need an 80

    Okereke a 58 when we need a 75

    Mo-Allie a 60 when we need a 70+  gotta threaten the seam

 

        lol to CB filling our most important needs

   

 

Mo just isn't used correctly. He's been highly successful on level 2/3 stuff when utilized that way. PFF had some interesting things to say about him (basically he needs a #1 TE role). 

 

Willis is great in the box, he's just not a 2 deep or vert S. He'd be a great #3 safety confined to box reps. Blackmon needs to be moved to SS. He's just not good as a primary FS. Great in run support though. But that's not what you pick a FS for. 

 

Grover is fine. He's a gapper. NTs in our vanilla scheme just won't light up the stat sheets. Heck, our 3T didn't light up the stat sheet in our scheme, and we all know he's good.

 

Oke is definitely not the upgrade they were anticipating at MIKE. I think Walker had the same exact grade (passer rating allowed), and graded out 10pts higher in PFF than Oke. 

 

Flus - definitely need scheme tweaks. I'm fine with our 4-2-5 base, but our lack of blitz/stunt is obviously a factor in our pass rush. Same goes with our backend. Too much cushion, and too much conservative QQH and Qs. 

 

Reich - at minimum, play calling needs to be moved. Now I'm not so sure about other stuff. The lack of effort and motivation last week is pretty disturbing. 

[AwesomeAustin]

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 

Jimmy missed that one but you can do that when you are up 23-7  

Jimmy has overthrown at least 2 WRs. 1st one the guy could have taken it to the house bc he toasted the corner. Last one was an INT that is letting the cowboys back in this game. People focusing on the TY throw in the Raiders game don’t understand how much it happens every game.