If BlueShoe was the GM... What would his thoughts be...

[BlueShoe]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Still too much for my taste

The Colts wouldn't have a pick til Round 4

 

Who knows who falls then?

It would be an early press conference. 
 

Ballard eluded that it could be... LOL

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

Von Miller had a lot of sacks out of a 4-3 front his first few years in Denver. No one even questioned if he could play with his hand in the dirt. 

Did you know Miller played both 4-3 and 3-4 at TAMU, so it's not like he was a pure 3-4 OLB coming into the league. He was also a specialist the first few years.

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

I don’t watch highlight tapes. I watch the entire game on players. I posted the highlight for those who might not like watching full games. I even said so when I posted it. 

If you watched the Bama tape (there is a youtube with every one of his snaps), you'll know he was not very impressive vs a good, not great, Leatherwood. He had a PD IIRC, but was pretty ineffective in other areas. 

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

Ojulari made a lot of nice plays in a 4-3 front, with his hand in the dirt. I am not worried one bit about his weight. He can bend, and he gets off the ball extremely quick. He has great hand-fighting ability. Some of what he has can he taught, some of it cannot be taught. 

One of the digs on him is he is not that bendy..... 

12 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

He will probably play anywhere from 250-260 in the NFL. Again, I am not worried about his weight. I see traits that equate to him excelling from a 9 technique in a 4-3. 
 

Everyone has a right to their opinion. If anyone thinks that Ojulari is only a 3-4 Outside Linebacker, then I am probably not convincing them otherwise. 

You're correct. Again, not saying it's impossible for him to play in a 4-3, it's just that the odds are poorer he'll be a 3 down guy in that scheme. He can be a specialist all day though. That's not what most want. And our scheme is a conservative 4-3, which is even more a poor fit.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

Did you know Miller played both 4-3 and 3-4 at TAMU, so it's not like he was a pure 3-4 OLB coming into the league. He was also a specialist the first few years.

If you watched the Bama tape (there is a youtube with every one of his snaps), you'll know he was not very impressive vs a good, not great, Leatherwood. He had a PD IIRC, but was pretty ineffective in other areas. 

One of the digs on him is he is not that bendy..... 

You're correct. Again, not saying it's impossible for him to play in a 4-3, it's just that the odds are poorer he'll be a 3 down guy in that scheme. He can be a specialist all day though. That's not what most want. And our scheme is a conservative 4-3, which is even more a poor fit.

I am very aware of what Von Miller played and where he is from.

 

I have watched Ojulari’s tape. He is bendy enough. And the rest is your opinion. And I obviously do not agree with you. 

[jvan1973]

25 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

I am very aware of what Von Miller played and where he is from.

 

I have watched Ojulari’s tape. He is bendy enough. And the rest is your opinion. And I obviously do not agree with you. 

So you don't work?   Your hobby is watching every NCAA player?   

[danlhart87]

24 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

I am very aware of what Von Miller played and where he is from.

 

I have watched Ojulari’s tape. He is bendy enough. And the rest is your opinion. And I obviously do not agree with you. 

And that's perfectly okay having a different opinion and perspective 

 

I think personally Azeez will go anywhere from 11 to 31 

 

He definitely has the traits to be successful in the right scheme

 

Who the Colts take depends how the board falls

 

If they feel Azeez is great enough at 21 then he's a possibile option 

[BlueShoe]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

So you don't work?   Your hobby is watching every NCAA player?   

So you don’t work? Your hobby is to play make believe wise guy on a Colts message board?

 

Don’t worry about what I do. Worry about yourself. 

[shasta519]

7 hours ago, Zoltan said:

 

It seems like you have your mind made up that we can't think for ourselves which is disappointing because how can we even talk about Ojulari, if you are not willing to have a conversation. 

 

If Ojulari is first edge off the board and kicks butt as a 4-3 DE, you were right and good on you, I remember I really wanted the Colts to Draft Fred Warner because I thought he was gonna be a steal and then the 49ers drafted him in the 3rd round. I was right he is a beast just like Leonard and I can only imagine if we had Warner at MLB and Leonard.

 

Personally I haven't seen Ojulari play or read much about him, but from what you have said I don't see him lasting to the Colts, and that a team that runs a hybrid defense will target him because he sounds like a perfect fit for them. As for if the Colts have the opportunity to draft him, I would say I would prefer us drafting a different position like OT but it depends on who is all available.

I wanted Warner as well. Couldn’t even imagine him and Leonard together.

[BlueShoe]

7 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

Do you think oujalri makes it to 21?  Would you trade up for him?  I was all in in Harold Landry an oujalri sounds more athletic.  

 

I’ll check out Lombardi.  Polian has a great podcast on each position which I recommend.  Olbs are in the next one so I’ll make sure to pay attention to oujalri. 

Thanks for that tip! I listened to Polian’s podcast tonight. 

 

And what do you know, it’s almost like he is saying the exact same thing about Ojulari that I am. It’s almost word-for-word what I’ve been saying. What can I say, he taught me well! 
 

I doubt this will change anyone’s opinion, because it’s hard to undo the brainwashing of some people, but anyone can fast forward to 1:16:20 and get his take. 
 

I am sure people will attack Polian for his beliefs about Ojulari too.
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/id1510749403?i=1000518303629

 

 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, BlueShoe said:

Thanks for that tip! I listened to Polian’s podcast tonight. 

 

And what do you know, it’s almost like he is saying the exact same thing about Ojulari that I am. It’s almost word-for-word what I’ve been saying. What can I say, he taught me well! 
 

I doubt this will change anyone’s opinion, because it’s hard to undo the brainwashing of some people, but anyone can fast forward to 1:16:20 and get his take. 
 

I am sure people will attack Polian for his beliefs about Ojulari too.
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/id1510749403?i=1000518303629

 

 

Nobody is attacking you 

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Nobody is attacking you 

Is anyone asking you where you work or what you do for a living? Listen to the podcast. 
 

This is me dropping the mic!

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, BlueShoe said:

Is anyone asking you where you work or what you do for a living? Listen to the podcast. 
 

This is me dropping the mic!

I had a feeling Polian would agree. You are gonna have several others agree with you too.

 

 

[BlueShoe]

Just now, danlhart87 said:

I had a feeling Polian would agree. You are gonna have several others agree with you too.

 

 

So... Now you’re saying Ojulari can play DE in a 4-3? You’ve come a long way since posting pictures of a baby putting blocks in the wrong holes. Just think how this conversation might have gone had you not done that. 

[danlhart87]

Just now, BlueShoe said:

So... Now you’re saying Ojulari can play DE in a 4-3? You’ve come a long way since posting pictures of a baby putting blocks in the wrong holes. Just think how this conversation might have gone had you not done that. 

I don't agree with you but others will. That's exactly the way things should be.

 

I'm sure there are even topics we agree on

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I don't agree with you but others will. That's exactly the way things should be.

 

I'm sure there are even topics we agree on

People can disagree all they want. They don’t need to be so condescending though. Especially when they are completely wrong about Ojulari by saying he is too light to put his hand in the dirt. 
 

I believe I’ve made my case and a former two time Executive of the Year, and Hall of Famer agrees with me. Almost word-for-word agrees with me. 

[danlhart87]

Its okay that people disagree with you. 

I do respect your opinion 

[Zoltan]

45 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

I wanted Warner as well. Couldn’t even imagine him and Leonard together.

Our LB group would of easily been the best in the NFL, if they had drafted both.

[danlhart87]

4 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

Our LB group would of easily been the best in the NFL, if they had drafted both.

I think in this draft JOK and Leonard would be killer duo

[Zoltan]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I think in this draft JOK and Leonard would be killer duo

 

We would probably just stick in nickel if we had them both lol

 

I'm just hoping Okereke will be able to fill Anthony Walker's shoes when it comes to MLB. 

[Superman]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

He was also a specialist the first few years.

 

Define specialist., I can't find his 2011 snap counts, but he played 89% of defensive snaps in Year 2, and my memory says he was basically an every down player by the middle of his first season. But to the point, he wasn't just a down lineman, he was more of a hybrid player.

 

Still, I think the DE/OLB debate is overblown most of the time. I think his size is fine. This is not Leonard Floyd or Randy Gregory, narrow guys who probably played at or below 230 pounds in college, and got drafted at 22/23 years old. Ojulari will be 21, and he measured at 249. He's not spindly, he's solid. He could play NFL DE at his size and weight right now, and he has the frame to get a little bigger if needed. He has good length, and he's strong.

 

But the players traits are most important to me. HWS, his tools, technique, and the other things that are necessary for an edge rusher in the NFL, those are the factors that matter. Not whether he played from a two point stance or a three point stance in college. 

 

I've watched a little of Ojulari. I think he fits our defense just fine because, IMO, he has the needed traits to play NFL DE. 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Define specialist., I can't find his 2011 snap counts, but he played 89% of defensive snaps in Year 2, and my memory says he was basically an every down player by the middle of his first season. But to the point, he wasn't just a down lineman, he was more of a hybrid player.

 

Still, I think the DE/OLB debate is overblown most of the time. I think his size is fine. This is not Leonard Floyd or Randy Gregory, narrow guys who probably played at or below 230 pounds in college, and got drafted at 22/23 years old. Ojulari will be 21, and he measured at 249. He's not spindly, he's solid. He could play NFL DE at his size and weight right now, and he has the frame to get a little bigger if needed. He has good length, and he's strong.

 

But the players traits are most important to me. HWS, his tools, technique, and the other things that are necessary for an edge rusher in the NFL, those are the factors that matter. Not whether he played from a two point stance or a three point stance in college. 

 

I've watched a little of Ojulari. I think he fits our defense just fine because, IMO, he has the needed traits to play NFL DE. 

What did I tell you @BlueShoe

Somebody agrees with you

 

Like I said you will find others who share your views 

[BlueShoe]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

What did I tell you @BlueShoe

Somebody agrees with you

 

Like I said you will find others who share your views 

Superman and I have traveled a few similar roads before, and this time I am going to take the advice he once gave me... The high road. 
 

No one knows what Ballard and the Colts scouts have planned for Thursday night. We are all Colts fans. Let’s enjoy the draft. 
 

We might take Ojulari, any of the top LT’s, trade up or back, take a linebacker, receiver (queue the Grigson jokes), or any other position. 
 

I am looking forward to the draft!  

[danlhart87]

Just now, BlueShoe said:

Superman and I have traveled a few similar roads before, and this time I am going to take the advice he once gave me... The high road. 
 

No one knows what Ballard and the Colts scouts have planned for Thursday night. We are all Colts fans. Let’s enjoy the draft. 
 

We might take Ojulari, any of the top LT’s, trade up or back, take a linebacker, receiver (queue the Grigson jokes), or any other position. 
 

I am looking forward to the draft!  

Thats the attitude I like. 

Your views are completely respected here

 

I don't agree but as we have seen tonight some do.

 

And I know Grigson gets flack but DeVonta Smith somehow by miracle fell i would be ok taking him too.

 

I personally think Ballard has 3 main guys Paye Newsome and Jenkins and if they're gone he will trade down 

[BlueShoe]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

Thats the attitude I like. 

Your views are completely respected here

 

I don't agree but as we have seen tonight some do.

 

And I know Grigson gets flack but DeVonta Smith somehow by miracle fell i would be ok taking him too.

 

I personally think Ballard has 3 main guys Paye Newsome and Jenkins and if they're gone he will trade down 

If DeVonta Smith falls to the teens, we might just move up and get him. I don’t believe the mock drafts that say he will fall though.  

[danlhart87]

Just now, BlueShoe said:

If DeVonta Smith falls to the teens, we might just move up and get him. I don’t believe the mock drafts that say he will fall though.  

He most likely won't fall

Latest he falls is to 12 Philly 

Smith just reminds me so much of Marvin

[EastStreet]

33 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Define specialist., I can't find his 2011 snap counts, but he played 89% of defensive snaps in Year 2, and my memory says he was basically an every down player by the middle of his first season. But to the point, he wasn't just a down lineman, he was more of a hybrid player.

 

Still, I think the DE/OLB debate is overblown most of the time. I think his size is fine. This is not Leonard Floyd or Randy Gregory, narrow guys who probably played at or below 230 pounds in college, and got drafted at 22/23 years old. Ojulari will be 21, and he measured at 249. He's not spindly, he's solid. He could play NFL DE at his size and weight right now, and he has the frame to get a little bigger if needed. He has good length, and he's strong.

 

But the players traits are most important to me. HWS, his tools, technique, and the other things that are necessary for an edge rusher in the NFL, those are the factors that matter. Not whether he played from a two point stance or a three point stance in college. 

 

I've watched a little of Ojulari. I think he fits our defense just fine because, IMO, he has the needed traits to play NFL DE. 

Folks keep saying he (Miller) played 4-3 DE in 2011 when Denver switched DCs, but he played all over the place. He was actually listed as SLB for Denver. When I say specialist, I mean he was a non-typical 4-3 LB, whom even though was listed as SLB officially, was a lined up as DE or blitzing LB in obvious passing situations.

 

Here's film from the 2011 game vs Miami. I've tagged the time they list starting front 7. Miller is listed as an SAM/SLB in the 4-3.

 

 

[Superman]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

When I say specialist, I mean he was a non-typical 4-3 LB, whom even though was listed as SLB officially, was a lined up as DE or blitzing LB in obvious passing situations.

 

That's what I was getting at. Not a pass rush specialist who only played 60% of defensive snaps... Got it. 

 

I'd be fine with a player like that in our defense, by the way. Not sure the team would employ a player like that.

[EastStreet]

32 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's what I was getting at. Not a pass rush specialist who only played 60% of defensive snaps... Got it. 

 

I'd be fine with a player like that in our defense, by the way. Not sure the team would employ a player like that.

 

I probably should have used hybrid or gimmick instead of specialist. My point was, he simply wasn't a "DE" even though he rushed/blitzed a lot.

 

IF we used a SAM that way, I'd be OK with it. We only use one like 25-30% of the time. And Denver's D through all those days was somewhat exotic and blitz happy. We are not like that at all. We're about as conservative and vanilla as a 4-3 can be.

 

Like I said previously, not saying it's impossible for him to play DE. I'm saying he's a bad fit for the Colts if we are looking for a true 3 down DE. Take a look at the film (all the film, not just highlights) from his game vs Bama. It was against a good, not great LT (Leatherwood). No sacks, but did have a PD IIRC. The concerns I would have was edge setting in non-pass rush downs, and his film looks to be very meh in that area. I just don't want a guy that's purely a situational pass rusher. 

 

I wonder sometimes if the Colts wanted to use Banogu that way (like Denver), with the SAM as an every down position that blitzed a lot. Never happened, and just not sure that's what they were thinking anyway.

 

I'm all for changing up our D by the way. I think we're overrated in the pass D category by a lot.

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I'm all for changing up our D by the way. I think we're overrated in the pass D category by a lot.

 

Depends on who's doing the rating. I feel the pass defense is below average, with a decent ability to get turnovers. I think we could stand to bring some more pressure, but mostly I think the coverages weren't executed well on a consistent basis. And if we can't generate consistent pressure with four rushers, good QBs are going to eat us up.

 

We do a lot of different things in the run game. I'm not worried about an edge who isn't great setting the edge, but I also think that's something a player improves upon with coaching. The traits are there.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Depends on who's doing the rating. I feel the pass defense is below average, with a decent ability to get turnovers. I think we could stand to bring some more pressure, but mostly I think the coverages weren't executed well on a consistent basis. And if we can't generate consistent pressure with four rushers, good QBs are going to eat us up.

 

We do a lot of different things in the run game. I'm not worried about an edge who isn't great setting the edge, but I also think that's something a player improves upon with coaching. The traits are there.

We were great vs the run, even playing mostly nickel. Now were down two DEs that were pretty decent vs the run, and a LB that was really good (100 Ts / year) in Walker. 

 

IMO, we're going to take a step back this season vs the run. 

 

As far a the pass D, I think it's vanilla pass rush (lack of blitzing and stunting) combined with super soft zone, more than guys playing poorly. I think S play vs the pass will be a weakness, even more than last year. 

 

I do agree coverages may not have been executed well, but I also think the complexity of more rip/liz stuff might be to blame. All the LBs took on more responsibility it seemed, and most dropped in pass D grades. Only Rhodes and Willis (who is likely asked to do least) took steps forward in grades IIRC. 

 

Give me more blitzing (at least up to league median) and a coverage scheme that lets players play, and is not overly complex.

[GoColts8818]

14 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Depends on who's doing the rating. I feel the pass defense is below average, with a decent ability to get turnovers. I think we could stand to bring some more pressure, but mostly I think the coverages weren't executed well on a consistent basis. And if we can't generate consistent pressure with four rushers, good QBs are going to eat us up.

 

We do a lot of different things in the run game. I'm not worried about an edge who isn't great setting the edge, but I also think that's something a player improves upon with coaching. The traits are there.

Irsay seemed to agree with you this when talking about the coverages as he said he felt they needed three stud corners and they had two (I am assuming he means Moore and Rhodes) but they need a third.  Don’t sleep on a CB coming off the board at 21.  Making the QB hold the ball because no one is open is another way to help the pass rush.  

[Fluke_33]

9 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

Thanks for that tip! I listened to Polian’s podcast tonight. 

 

And what do you know, it’s almost like he is saying the exact same thing about Ojulari that I am. It’s almost word-for-word what I’ve been saying. What can I say, he taught me well! 
 

I doubt this will change anyone’s opinion, because it’s hard to undo the brainwashing of some people, but anyone can fast forward to 1:16:20 and get his take. 
 

I am sure people will attack Polian for his beliefs about Ojulari too.
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/id1510749403?i=1000518303629

 

 

I don’t know how I missed that I listened to most of that episode except maybe the last five minutes and that’s where he was. He raves about him!   He may go top 10 and I don’t think we have the draft capital to get there. But boy does he sound good

[krunk]

10 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

Thanks for that tip! I listened to Polian’s podcast tonight. 

 

And what do you know, it’s almost like he is saying the exact same thing about Ojulari that I am. It’s almost word-for-word what I’ve been saying. What can I say, he taught me well! 
 

I doubt this will change anyone’s opinion, because it’s hard to undo the brainwashing of some people, but anyone can fast forward to 1:16:20 and get his take. 
 

I am sure people will attack Polian for his beliefs about Ojulari too.
 

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-football-podcast-with-bill-polian/id1510749403?i=1000518303629

 

 

Im not going to attack Polian bc i knew hed be more than okay with him. Him and Dungy didnt really harp on the size of edge players that much as long as they could put an adequate amount of pressure on the pocket. But in saying that we usually gave up something in terms of run defense and our ability to set the edge.

[Dr. T]

18 hours ago, BlueShoe said:

I don’t think he makes it to us, but anything is possible. I would absolutely move up to get him. 
 

I agree with you BlueShoe. Ojulari is a stud, but probably won't last until #21.

[Myles]

12 hours ago, shasta519 said:

I wanted Warner as well. Couldn’t even imagine him and Leonard together.

Björn?

[Myles]

I'd be happy with Ojulari or Paye at 21.

[Superman]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Irsay seemed to agree with you this when talking about the coverages as he said he felt they needed three stud corners and they had two (I am assuming he means Moore and Rhodes) but they need a third.  Don’t sleep on a CB coming off the board at 21.  Making the QB hold the ball because no one is open is another way to help the pass rush.  

 

Yeah, it's not my preferred way to address the rush, but it's an easier approach than adding stud edge rushers. And really, Rhodes is on another one year deal and will be 32 in 2022, so he needs to be replaced. Even if Rock turns into a really good player, we need more at corner. Tell and Rogers are in the mix, but Rogers can't play on the boundary. So CB should be in the mix.

 

However, I don't take Irsay's comments as an indicator of what they do at #21. I just felt it was a comment on the state of the roster. And I think there are a lot of toolsy corner prospects in the draft, so adding one on Day 2 or 3 is an option as well.

[Zoltan]

47 minutes ago, Myles said:

Björn?

Fred Warner

[Zoltan]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, it's not my preferred way to address the rush, but it's an easier approach than adding stud edge rushers. And really, Rhodes is on another one year deal and will be 32 in 2022, so he needs to be replaced. Even if Rock turns into a really good player, we need more at corner. Tell and Rogers are in the mix, but Rogers can't play on the boundary. So CB should be in the mix.

 

However, I don't take Irsay's comments as an indicator of what they do at #21. I just felt it was a comment on the state of the roster. And I think there are a lot of toolsy corner prospects in the draft, so adding one on Day 2 or 3 is an option as well.

 

I'm thinking Shaun Wade on Day 3 could be a good addition. He excelled as a nickel corner in 2019, would be great depth behind Moore. He played bad on the outside this last year, but he was one of the players that initially opted out, then rejoined. Basically I think he could be a low risk, high reward player especially if he is going round 4/5

[chad72]

I just feel that most pass rushers employed nowadays don't play the entire series, they come off for several downs. If the high end traits allow us to employ a first rounder for 2 out of the 3 downs and get high level production out of him, I will be happy with it. 

 

Yes, stamina and conditioning wise, we want them for the possibility of 3 downs if the opposition goes no huddle but you have to draft with the traits and upside in mind.

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I'm thinking Shaun Wade on Day 3 could be a good addition. He excelled as a nickel corner in 2019, would be great depth behind Moore. He played bad on the outside this last year, but he was one of the players that initially opted out, then rejoined. Basically I think he could be a low risk, high reward player especially if he is going round 4/5

I’m guessing Rogers, the little corner we took from UMASS last year in the 6th,  is our backup for Moore.   Certainly size-wise.  
 

But I still like Wade as a Day 3 pick with upside.