Poll - QB Preference (now that PR has officially retired) (merge)

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Ballard doesn't do bidding wars buddy

He does if it falls within his value assessment. I really doubt for instance we were the only offer on our shiny new DT last season. And I doubt we opened up with a first. It may have happened quick, but I'm sure it took a few phone calls or texts, and I'd bet there were 2-4 teams playing. Buckner was just a sure thing, so the value level was set higher. Either that, or he has blackmail pics.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Don’t worry that guy blows a lot of smoke.

 

I am reading Wentz contract will need restructured by what ever team gets him and that will be part of the deal.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Don’t worry that guy blows a lot of smoke.

 

I am reading Wentz contract will need restructured by what ever team gets him and that will be part of the deal.

who blows a lot of smoke?

 

Why the need to restructure? If the #s @w87r are correct, which he's typically highly accurate, there's not a lot of need. Restructuring would only create more dead cap, and more guaranteed past 2022.

[Iron Colt]

25 minutes ago, Smoke317 said:

If we did trade our first to the Eagles, they’d be in serious position to move up and draft Wilson or Fields.  If either became stars and Wentz’ regression continued then that trade would go down in infamy in Colts history.  Part of me thinks that Wentz’ agent is leaking all of this info.  Trying to drum up interest to get a move done as soon as possible.  Plus if you hear that the Colts are getting him for our 1st it gives the Bears a simple hurdle to clear.  They up the ante then we’ll hear they’re offering a 1st & 3rd. Hoping the Colts would counter again with a 1st & 2nd. 

I wouldn't trade a can of Pringles for Wentz. Well, maybe sour cream and onion but definitely not barbecue 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I could see Lance falling to around 14 and Ballard trading up

It's going to be very interesting leading up to the draft.

 

Here's how I kinda see things shaking out. I plan on maybe doing a thread combo'ing the draft needs (of the draft order) mashed up against the availability (with likely draft or salary capable teams).

 

Here's the high level of the top end of the draft..... 

Disclaimer... It's an uneducated hot take at this point, so just spit balling now....

 

1. Jax - Lawrence (would be stupid not to)

2. Jets - Watson or Wilson

3. Miami - Watson, Wilson, Lance, or OT

--- Watson is gone at this point

4. ATL - 50/50 shot. I think they take a QB and deal Ryan after 2021 when cap hit is less. They take Wilson if he's still available. If not, perhaps they pass on Lance.

---at least Watson and Wilson are gone at this point. Perhaps Lance too. 

5. Bengals - this is a prime spot for a team to trade up for a QB. But lets assume they don't and Bengals take an OT. My gut says they trade the pick for a later 1st, 2nd, and future... and the trading team takes a QB... 

6. Philly - They'll be in the market if they offload Wentz.... Let's assume the do, and unless they get Trubisky or Foles in a trade, they'll take Lance or Fields here. Let's assume they're happy with Trubisky or Foles... 

8. Carolina - If Lance or Fields are available they are taking a QB.

---only one of Lance or Fields is available if any...

9. Denver - Another QB needy team, but let's assume they pass. Could trade to another QB needy team.

10. Dallas - Jerry might trade or release DP if they can't make a deal. If they don't, this is another trade back opportunity. If they do release/trade, they would be looking for a QB. If they keep him, another op for a QB hungry team. Let's assume they re-sign Dak, but hold onto the pick (doubt it)

11. Giants - another team that might take a QB IF they like Fields or Lance if either is available. 

12. San Francisco - this is a team that will definitely take whoever is left between Fields or Lance.

----only Jones, Trask, and Newman are left as T1 or T2 guys at his point... 

 

In short don't see Lance past 12.... Some coach will likely like him more than Fields, so pretty decent chance he goes earlier than 12. 

 

 

[EastStreet]

16 minutes ago, Iron Colt said:

I wouldn't trade a can of Pringles for Wentz. Well, maybe sour cream and onion but definitely not barbecue 

I'd keep the SC&O, give up the BBQ all day. BBQ goes better on a ham sandwich though.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

It's going to be very interesting leading up to the draft.

 

Here's how I kinda see things shaking out. I plan on maybe doing a thread combo'ing the draft needs (of the draft order) mashed up against the availability (with likely draft or salary capable teams).

 

Here's the high level of the top end of the draft..... 

Disclaimer... It's an uneducated hot take at this point, so just spit balling now....

 

1. Jax - Lawrence (would be stupid not to)

2. Jets - Watson or Wilson

3. Miami - Watson, Wilson, Lance, or OT

--- Watson is gone at this point

4. ATL - 50/50 shot. I think they take a QB and deal Ryan after 2021 when cap hit is less. They take Wilson if he's still available. If not, perhaps they pass on Lance.

---at least Watson and Wilson are gone at this point. Perhaps Lance too. 

5. Bengals - this is a prime spot for a team to trade up for a QB. But lets assume they don't and Bengals take an OT. My gut says they trade the pick for a later 1st, 2nd, and future... and the trading team takes a QB... 

6. Philly - They'll be in the market if they offload Wentz.... Let's assume the do, and unless they get Trubisky or Foles in a trade, they'll take Lance or Fields here. Let's assume they're happy with Trubisky or Foles... 

8. Carolina - If Lance or Fields are available they are taking a QB.

---only one of Lance or Fields is available if any...

9. Denver - Another QB needy team, but let's assume they pass. Could trade to another QB needy team.

10. Dallas - Jerry might trade or release DP if they can't make a deal. If they don't, this is another trade back opportunity. If they do release/trade, they would be looking for a QB. If they keep him, another op for a QB hungry team. Let's assume they re-sign Dak, but hold onto the pick (doubt it)

11. Giants - another team that might take a QB IF they like Fields or Lance if either is available. 

12. San Francisco - this is a team that will definitely take whoever is left between Fields or Lance.

----only Jones, Trask, and Newman are left as T1 or T2 guys at his point... 

 

In short don't see Lance past 12.... Some coach will likely like him more than Fields, so pretty decent chance he goes earlier than 12. 

 

 

As for Jones 

 

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

As for Jones 

 

only if Ballard is very dumb in the 1st, or maybe if he's there at 54

like i said, my money is on NO..

[danlhart87]

Just now, EastStreet said:

only if Ballard is very dumb in the 1st, or maybe if he's there at 54

like i said, my money is on NO..

Damn you really hate Jones 

 

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

Damn you really hate Jones 

 

I don't hate him at all. He's just severely limited and needs 1) to go to a perfect set-up of personnel and 2) and a team that is willing to embrace the limitations of a rook in the 1st and change the scheme for him.

 

I don't see Ballard or Reich being OK with #2. I can see Peyton letting him compete with Hill, and the set-up and scheme are already there.

[danlhart87]

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

 

Bears and Colts fans are both all over Twitter saying they don't want Wentz

 

That should tell all you Wentz supporters something 

 

He isn't worth it 

 

The opinion of a fan is rarely worth the internet paper it's written on.   I couldn't care less what a fan base thinks.

 

As a general rule,  they're ill-informed at best.

 

[NewColtsFan]

 

If there's any truth to this rumor,  we likely won't know until the middle of next week.

 

The Hall of Fame announcement is Saturday.   It will feature Peyton and may also feature Reggie.

 

The Super Bowl is Sunday.    

 

You don't want to step on the biggest day for you franchises best player.

 

You don't want to step on the biggest day for the league.

 

So, Monday is the day after the Super Bowl,  time for all the analyzing and looking back.

 

I'm guessing Tuesday, the Colts will bring in Peyton to talk with the local media about the Hall vote.

 

That leaves next Wed/Thur/Friday for when we might make a trade announcement at the possible earliest.    And that assumes the Colts and Eagles have reached a verbal agreement on a deal.    That's a big, BIG IF.

 

[EastStreet]

50 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

That's pretty ridiculous if true. A QB they benched, is worth two 1Rers.

 

I guess they will want three of four 1Rers for Hurts... 

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

The opinion of a fan is rarely worth the internet paper it's written on.   I couldn't care less what a fan base thinks.

 

As a general rule,  they're ill-informed at best.

 

Don't think for a minute Ballard doesn't know what his base is thinking or wanting. He talked about preferring complainers to apathy today. While I'm sure he doesn't make decisions based on complaints, it's pretty obvious that the city weighs. He knows at some point there is a line where complaints turn to apathy. 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

That's pretty ridiculous if true. A QB they benched, is worth two 1Rers.

 

I guess they will want three of four 1Rers for Hurts... 

Don't think for a minute Ballard doesn't know what his base is thinking or wanting. He talked about preferring complainers to apathy today. While I'm sure he doesn't make decisions based on complaints, it's pretty obvious that the city weighs. He knows at some point there is a line where complaints turn to apathy. 

And he talked about all of what you said.  I listened to the entire interview.   But he’s also talked in other interviews that you don’t make decisions based on what the fans want.  That you don’t make panic decisions.  That you don’t make a deal because that’s what the fan base wants you to do. 
 

If I understand your meaning, if you’re saying what a city wants weighs on him, I think that’s false.  Just because he’s aware of it, doesn’t mean he acts on that opinion.  I think he’d lose his front office and coaching staff if he did that. 

[EastStreet]

28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

And he talked about all of what you said.  I listened to the entire interview.   But he’s also talked in other interviews that you don’t make decisions based on what the fans want.  That you don’t make panic decisions.  That you don’t make a deal because that’s what the fan base wants you to do. 
 

If I understand your meaning, if you’re saying what a city wants weighs on him, I think that’s false.  Just because he’s aware of it, doesn’t mean he acts on that opinion.  I think he’d lose his front office and coaching staff if he did that. 

Not saying he acts on it always, but he's aware, he feels the pressure (at the end of the day they are the customer), and he personally weighs everything (including the city) and makes "Chris Ballard's best decision". Any good manager embraces the customer needs, but also protects the customers from themselves when needed. And he spoke for a while about apathy, so he knows the potential long term damage it can cause a franchise. He doesn't want KC parking lots like he spoke of today. I'm sure he has an analytics or social psychiatrists team, or both, creating a power point on the topic mashing things together 

[danlhart87]

3 hours ago, EastStreet said:

That's pretty ridiculous if true. A QB they benched, is worth two 1Rers.

 

I guess they will want three of four 1Rers for Hurts... 

Don't think for a minute Ballard doesn't know what his base is thinking or wanting. He talked about preferring complainers to apathy today. While I'm sure he doesn't make decisions based on complaints, it's pretty obvious that the city weighs. He knows at some point there is a line where complaints turn to apathy. 

Yes agreed 

Let the Bears do that garbage 

[w87r]

7 hours ago, EastStreet said:

who blows a lot of smoke?

 

Why the need to restructure? If the #s @w87r are correct, which he's typically highly accurate, there's not a lot of need. Restructuring would only create more dead cap, and more guaranteed past 2022.

Yeah that wouldn't be the best thing to do.  Could still get out in 2023 rather unscathed though.($23m savings)

 

The cap is looking to be around $185m now, so the $25.4m in 2021 is more manageable. No need to guarantee any money beyond 2022.

 

If they did restructure, it would look something like this:(unless they guaranteed him more more in 23/24 for agreeing to the deal)

2021 - $14.6m($10.8m in 2021 savings)

2022 - $25.6m($25.8m dead cap hit)

2023 - $30.6m($7.2m dead cap hit)

2024 - $29.6m($3.6m dead cap hit)

 

 

 

If the Eagles are able to pull off these rumors(multiple 1st and player), if will be the heist of the century.

 

Hopefully Ballard has already moved on from these talks.

 

 

There is a slight difference between Goff and Wentz though.

 

Goffs contract didn't leave as much dead cap for the Rams($22m) as Wentz leaves for the Eagles($33m). So it actually hurts the Eagles more to trade Wentz than it did the Rams and Goff. Eagles only save $880k(ish), I think the Rams saved around $19m of I remember correctly.

 

Still way to much.

[csmopar]

9 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U will eat those words

You? You of all the posters here would be the last I’d expect to support this move. But you do?

[csmopar]

7 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

 

 

I think someone in the Eagles organization drank the bong water. Wow

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

You? You of all the posters here would be the last I’d expect to support this move. But you do?

You know he loves go against the grain

[danlhart87]

 

 

[richard pallo]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

If there's any truth to this rumor,  we likely won't know until the middle of next week.

 

The Hall of Fame announcement is Saturday.   It will feature Peyton and may also feature Reggie.

 

The Super Bowl is Sunday.    

 

You don't want to step on the biggest day for you franchises best player.

 

You don't want to step on the biggest day for the league.

 

So, Monday is the day after the Super Bowl,  time for all the analyzing and looking back.

 

I'm guessing Tuesday, the Colts will bring in Peyton to talk with the local media about the Hall vote.

 

That leaves next Wed/Thur/Friday for when we might make a trade announcement at the possible earliest.    And that assumes the Colts and Eagles have reached a verbal agreement on a deal.    That's a big, BIG IF.

 

I think once the two teams reach an agreement it will be very hard to keep it under wraps for a long period of time.  I suppose it could happen but if the Eagles get a big haul they might want it to get out there and take the buzz. 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I think once the two teams reach an agreement it will be very hard to keep it under wraps for a long period of time.  I suppose it could happen but if the Eagles get a big haul they might want it to get out there and take the buzz. 

if its a big haul there's no way its from us 

[csmopar]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

if its a big haul there's no way its from us 

I sure hope not 

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I sure hope not 

I can't see Ballard going all in on Wentz

The Bears on the other hand I very well could

[danlhart87]

I saw a post recently on Twitter that I now I can't but it was great 

 

Regarding Wentz 

 

"You don't trade for what a player was, but what a player is"

 

I think so many people here think Wentz can return to his MVP form and if he does end up here he will have my full support 

 

The bottom line is the QB market has gone way up after that Rams trade now most QB teams are gonna be wanting a mountain back.

 

 

 

 

[danlhart87]

 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, csmopar said:

You? You of all the posters here would be the last I’d expect to support this move. But you do?

Absolutley. I think he has been elite up until this year. I think Frank is licking his chops st the idea of getting Wentz. If the Colts r all in, I believe Frank has signed off. I truly beleive that Frank is a qb whisperer. A term that is thrown around far to easily

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Absolutley. I think he has been elite up until this year. I think Frank is licking his chops st the idea of getting Wentz. If the Colts r all in, I believe Frank has signed off. I truly beleive that Frank is a qb whisperer. A term that is thrown around far to easily

If Bears truly are offering a lot Ballard wont try to outbid them

[csmopar]

7 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Absolutley. I think he has been elite up until this year. I think Frank is licking his chops st the idea of getting Wentz. If the Colts r all in, I believe Frank has signed off. I truly beleive that Frank is a qb whisperer. A term that is thrown around far to easily

Ehh I dont think I can say he’s been “elite”

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If Bears truly are offering a lot Ballard wont try to outbid them

I think he has to, but Wentz will want to cone to Indy so thst may also impact the trade. Ballard may have to  give up a player. AFC south starting qbs. Lawrence, Watson, Tannehil.......Eason.

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, csmopar said:

Ehh I dont think I can say he’s been “elite”

Look back at 2019 and what he worked with. Mahommes wouldnt have done any better. 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think he has to, but Wentz will want to cone to Indy so thst may also impact the trade. Ballard may have to  give up a player. AFC south starting qbs. Lawrence, Watson, Tannehil.......Eason.

He doesn't have to

You would just like him to

[The Fish]

Giving up multiple firsts for Wentz, the guy I saw last year would be a football team management tragedy as I see it now. And yet I'm also concerned that Ballard might be caught trying to be the smartest guy in the room, so smart that we watch JB again.

 

I DUNNO!

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

He doesn't have to

You would just like him to

Well Ballard does not like to part with draft picks, so he may prefer to give up s player. Its not what I like to do its what he prefers to do.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, The Fish said:

Giving up multiple firsts for Wentz, the guy I saw last year would be a football team management tragedy as I see it now. And yet I'm also concerned that Ballard might be caught trying to be the smartest guy in the room, so smart that we watch JB again.

 

I DUNNO!

 

 

I would take several options over Wentz

Id support Wentz if his contract was better

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Well Ballard does not like to part with draft picks, so he may prefer to give up s player. Its not what I like to do its what he prefers to do.

He's already said if the right player is there and he wants to move pieces to get them he will 

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

He's already said if the right player is there and he wants to move pieces to get them he will 

 

 

As any good GM would do. If u get a chance to get a franchise qb, you go for him. Moving up in the draft is very expensive and it is a risk as is getting Wentz but lesser I would argue

[danlhart87]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

As any good GM would do. If u get a chance to get a franchise qb, you go for him. Moving up in the draft is very expensive and it is a risk as is getting Wentz but lesser I would argue

Wentz is a huge risk

His contract is awful 

 

If he doesn't pan out it reflects poorly

Besides most Wentz supporters expect him to return to MVP form

 

I expect him to be somewhere in the middle