Losing Sunday has its advantages

[danlhart87]

Just now, Moe said:

How on earth can you say Ballard isn’t trading up? If it’s Ballards guy you do everything possible to get him it’s that important!

He's never traded up and values more picks. He's more likely to trade down.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, Grigson's Gaffes said:

I would definitely say they’re the #2 team. I always feel there is a progression in the NFL and a healthy colts team can match up with just about anyone. The progression of Josh Allen from year 2 to year 3 is astounding though.

They say you can’t improve accuracy much. He has went from the fifties to almost 70%. That is crazy. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

He's never traded up and values more picks. He's more likely to trade down.

I am confident if the guy is there he will. But he is only going to do it if they are in love and feel very strongly. 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I am confident if the guy is there he will. But he is only going to do it if they are in love and feel very strongly. 

that's why I am ok even at 18 if Colts miss playoffs gives them plenty of options 

[Moe]

14 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

He's never traded up and values more picks. He's more likely to trade down.

Yes he’s never traded up yet, but quarterback is that important! I don’t buy it’s not about one guy talk.

[danlhart87]

2 minutes ago, Moe said:

Yes he’s never traded up yet, but quarterback is that important! I don’t buy it’s not about one guy talk.

If one guy was all we needed Luck wouldn't have retired 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

If one guy was all we needed Luck wouldn't have retired 

Ballard wasn’t talking about a QB being unimportant. He was talking about not building a team and letting it be all on the QB shoulders like they were with Luck. 

[w87r]

Ballard has traded up before.

 

 

Traded Nos. 67 and 178 to Cleveland for No. 64.

This trade hasn’t quite worked out. Ballard wanted to move up three spots at the end of the second round to grab defensive tackle Tyquan Lewis (No. 64). He didn’t have to give up much, but the selection of the player hasn’t turned out well through two seasons.

 

 

Traded Nos. 129 and 135 to Oakland for No. 109.

This was a rare trade up where Ballard gave up two fourth-round picks, but they really wanted safety Khari Willis, who wound up being the selection for them at No. 109. Willis had a superb rookie season and flashed plenty of potential.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/coltswire.usatoday.com/2020/04/10/nfl-draft-colts-trades-chris-ballard-history/amp/

 

 

The Browns on Friday traded back in the second round, moving from No. 41 to No. 44 in a swap with the Colts. Cleveland used the pick to take LSU S Grant Delpit.

The Browns obtained a fifth-round pick (No. 160) in the transaction. Indianapolis used the pick to select Wisconsin RB Jonathan Taylor.

 

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/browns-trade-back-in-2nd-round-acquire-5th-round-pick-from-colts

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Ballard wasn’t talking about a QB being unimportant. He was talking about not building a team and letting it be all on the QB shoulders like they were with Luck. 

He's kept true to his word on helping the trenches. He needs to fix the OT depth. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

34 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

that's why I am ok even at 18 if Colts miss playoffs gives them plenty of options 

There are also lots  of teams that will be picking high or before us who don’t need QB. I think after Lawrence some of the other QB probably won’t go until mid 1st. You have Chargers. Broncos, dolphins, Bengals. Maybe the Giants if they stick with Jones which isn’t a sure thing. I will bet the jets are going to stick with Darnold now they lost out on Lawrence. I am just not sure after Lawrence any of the other QB are worth a second or third pick. But some of these other teams might be worth trading with.

[chad72]

6 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

I'll ask again then

 

If Colts were to fire Reich who would replace him?

 

I have asked this about 3 times already this past week and nobody has given an answer.

 

People are so quick to rush to judgement without thinking of possible replacements.

 

BTW I am fine firing him if need be but Ballard needs to be kept at all costs.

 

 

John Elway fired John Fox because he did not believe John Fox would get him to the promised land after a 12-4 2014 season and he had a coach in mind in Gary Kubiak. He combined it with an aggressive free agency, aggressive DC and it showed results in the 2015 season right away. Lots of things need to go right just to get to a SB, and not making the playoffs is several steps behind it. You have to look at it objectively.

 

IF, again a big IF, because one would be hard pressed to fire a coach after a 11-5 season. That is why I first said IF he loses to the Jaguars again, to end up at 10-6.

 

My first choice would be Brian Daboll who is from the Bill Belichick and Nick Saban coaching trees. I know the history of Belichick assistants but he technically was offensive assistant for Bill for just 1 year but has been OC for the Dolphins, Chiefs, Browns, and tight ends coach for Patriots for 3 years. To be honest, his resume is not that far different than Frank Reich. He will be first time head coach, several times OC kind of guy. If we are investing in a new QB, you have to take notice of what he did with Josh Allen.

 

If I am wanting fresh blood, I go after Joe Brady of Carolina Panthers. 

 

Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson, and Clyde Edwards-Helaire - none of the three were considered first round talents until Brady took over as passing coordinator and wide receivers coach.

 

Then this season as a part of Matt Rhules staff, Brady has made Teddy Bridgewater look like a franchise quarterback rather than a bridge. He has also kept the Panthers offense explosive despite losing All-Pro Christian McCaffrey for most of the season. Bridgewater, Robby Anderson and Mike Davis have had career years in Brady’s offense.

 

It would be like the Rams hiring Sean McVay after he was OC with Redskins, IMO. Once he got proficient production out of the Rams offense with a SB appearance, now people are looking at that move in a totally different light. 

 

You asked for choices and I gave my candidates and reasons for hiring them.

[CR91]

We need playoff experience. This is still a young team.

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

John Elway fired John Fox because he did not believe John Fox would get him to the promised land after a 12-4 2014 season and he had a coach in mind in Gary Kubiak. He combined it with an aggressive free agency, aggressive DC and it showed results in the 2015 season right away. Lots of things need to go right just to get to a SB, and not making the playoffs is several steps behind it. You have to look at it objectively.

 

IF, again a big IF, because one would be hard pressed to fire a coach after a 11-5 season. That is why I first said IF he loses to the Jaguars again, to end up at 10-6.

 

My first choice would be Brian Daboll who is from the Bill Belichick and Nick Saban coaching trees. I know the history of Belichick assistants but he technically was offensive assistant for Bill for just 1 year but has been OC for the Dolphins, Chiefs, Browns, and tight ends coach for Patriots for 3 years. To be honest, his resume is not that far different than Frank Reich. He will be first time head coach, several times OC kind of guy. If we are investing in a new QB, you have to take notice of what he did with Josh Allen.

 

If I am wanting fresh blood, I go after Joe Brady of Carolina Panthers. 

 

Joe Burrow, Justin Jefferson, and Clyde Edwards-Helaire - none of the three were considered first round talents until Brady took over as passing coordinator and wide receivers coach.

 

Then this season as a part of Matt Rhules staff, Brady has made Teddy Bridgewater look like a franchise quarterback rather than a bridge. He has also kept the Panthers offense explosive despite losing All-Pro Christian McCaffrey for most of the season. Bridgewater, Robby Anderson and Mike Davis have had career years in Brady’s offense.

 

It would be like the Rams hiring Sean McVay, IMO. Once he got proficient production out of the Rams offense with a SB appearance, now people are looking at that move in a totally different light. 

 

You asked for choices and I gave my candidates and reasons for hiring them.

I really appreciate your insight. I hadn't personally done much research but I would like think there are plenty of solid options.

[Moe]

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

If one guy was all we needed Luck wouldn't have retired 

1 hour ago, danlhart87 said:

If one guy was all we needed Luck wouldn't have retired 

That’s not why Luck retired! imagine A young Andrew on the team we have now! Probably be unstoppable.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Moe said:

 

Luck made a personal choice for himself and several people judged him badly for it. I have the utmost respect for him.

 

This team has several weaknesses but I trust Ballard to help them. 

[NewColtsFan]

On 12/28/2020 at 4:01 PM, danlhart87 said:

Hear me out

 

Making the playoffs is the first choice cause its a whole new ballgame once you get there but a lot of very good players are going top 20.

 

I am afraid being in the 25 onward range we are gonna miss some key opportunities to go out and improve the future of the squad.

 

Losing sucks especially when you have a chance at the playoffs but the Colts would be in a great spot come draft time. 

 

I trust Ballard completely and could see a number of options at 18.

 

He could take best available QB at 18 and prepare him behind Rivers to start in 22 or he could take best available OT DE.

 

He could even do what we expect and trade down with a team desperate for a QB. Saints might come offer good picks to move up. Its looking like Brees doesn't have much left.

 

Just remember in the end after Week 17 no matter the outcome playoffs or not there is always a silver lining. 

 

Look at the glass half full if you will!

Here's the problem with this thinking....

 

Winning is always the priority for any franchise.   The draft and Free Agency are secondary considerations.   Winning is the name of the game.   Don’t win enough and everyone is looking for a new job. 
 

But,  just as important,  saying picking at 18 is better because there are roughly 20 great prospects and none of them might be available if we advance enough to pick 25 or lower is just deeply flawed thinking.   It presumes that all 32 teams rank the same kids roughly equally.  They absolutely do not. 
 

Remember this....   32 teams, 32 different Big Boards.   Nobody sees the same thing the same way.   It’s a beauty pageant.   Everyone ranks the players differently.  
 

How do you think New England had deep runs for 20 straight years while always picking in the bottom 10 of the draft every year.    Other teams misevaluate and there are the Patriots to draft the players other teams missed on.  
 

This franchise wants to win this year.  Right now.   Only scouts are thinking about next year.  Irsay wants to win NOW.  Let’s not focus on 2021 until our season is over — whenever that is. 

[Colts1324]

11 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

There are also lots  of teams that will be picking high or before us who don’t need QB. I think after Lawrence some of the other QB probably won’t go until mid 1st. You have Chargers. Broncos, dolphins, Bengals. Maybe the Giants if they stick with Jones which isn’t a sure thing. I will bet the jets are going to stick with Darnold now they lost out on Lawrence. I am just not sure after Lawrence any of the other QB are worth a second or third pick. But some of these other teams might be worth trading with.

The Jets will draft a QB IMO. 
 

Jaguars, Jets, Washington, ATL, DET(more likely than ATL), 49ers, and NE all need QB's. Not to mention, it's possible that Chicago will only draft a few spots behind us, and they might trade up. 
 

There are 7 QB needy teams drafting ahead of us. 
 

Chicago, NO, and Pittsburg are teams that could draft a QB behind us. 
 

There are 5 QB's(I believe) who will go in the first round. 
 

Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, and Mac Jones. 
 

I think the first four are gone by pick 10. It's actually a historically bad year to need a franchise QB

[chickenMan]

On 12/29/2020 at 6:14 PM, Grigson's Gaffes said:

I would definitely say they’re the #2 team. I always feel there is a progression in the NFL and a healthy colts team can match up with just about anyone. The progression of Josh Allen from year 2 to year 3 is astounding though.

It helps when you have Stefon Diggs

[GoColts8818]

On 12/29/2020 at 8:14 PM, danlhart87 said:

He's never traded up and values more picks. He's more likely to trade down.

He’s never traded up in the first round he did trade up last year to get Taylor and has done so with other picks outside of the first round.  If there is someone he really wants and he thinks he can get him he will go get them.

[Moosejawcolt]

On 12/30/2020 at 2:42 AM, NewColtsFan said:

Here's the problem with this thinking....

 

Winning is always the priority for any franchise.   The draft and Free Agency are secondary considerations.   Winning is the name of the game.   Don’t win enough and everyone is looking for a new job. 
 

But,  just as important,  saying picking at 18 is better because there are roughly 20 great prospects and none of them might be available if we advance enough to pick 25 or lower is just deeply flawed thinking.   It presumes that all 32 teams rank the same kids roughly equally.  They absolutely do not. 
 

Remember this....   32 teams, 32 different Big Boards.   Nobody sees the same thing the same way.   It’s a beauty pageant.   Everyone ranks the players differently.  
 

How do you think New England had deep runs for 20 straight years while always picking in the bottom 10 of the draft every year.    Other teams misevaluate and there are the Patriots to draft the players other teams missed on.  
 

This franchise wants to win this year.  Right now.   Only scouts are thinking about next year.  Irsay wants to win NOW.  Let’s not focus on 2021 until our season is over — whenever that is. 

Actualy, Patriots never really built thru the draft.

[danlhart87]

On 12/30/2020 at 8:07 AM, Colts1324 said:

The Jets will draft a QB IMO. 
 

Jaguars, Jets, Washington, ATL, DET(more likely than ATL), 49ers, and NE all need QB's. Not to mention, it's possible that Chicago will only draft a few spots behind us, and they might trade up. 
 

There are 7 QB needy teams drafting ahead of us. 
 

Chicago, NO, and Pittsburg are teams that could draft a QB behind us. 
 

There are 5 QB's(I believe) who will go in the first round. 
 

Lawrence, Fields, Wilson, Lance, and Mac Jones. 
 

I think the first four are gone by pick 10. It's actually a historically bad year to need a franchise QB

4 will probably go 1st Jones and Trask could fall to 2nd

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Actualy, Patriots never really built thru the draft.

Maybe the internet doesn’t quite reach all the way to Canada?   
 

You do have a sense of humor!!    

[Moosejawcolt]

On 12/29/2020 at 8:02 PM, Chloe6124 said:

There are also lots  of teams that will be picking high or before us who don’t need QB. I think after Lawrence some of the other QB probably won’t go until mid 1st. You have Chargers. Broncos, dolphins, Bengals. Maybe the Giants if they stick with Jones which isn’t a sure thing. I will bet the jets are going to stick with Darnold now they lost out on Lawrence. I am just not sure after Lawrence any of the other QB are worth a second or third pick. But some of these other teams might be worth trading with.

I think u might be shocked how many teams in thr top 10 go qb. Philly and Lions may decide to go young. Lock is not the answer for Broncos and I woukdnt be surprised to see Phins go qb.

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think u might be shocked how many teams in thr top 10 go qb. Philly and Lions may decide to go young. Lock is not the answer for Broncos and I woukdnt be surprised to see Phins go qb.

I read somewhere that Elway likes Lock and wants to stick with him 

 

Let me see if I can find it

[danlhart87]

https://thespun.com/nfl/afc-west/denver-broncos/john-elway-reportedly-makes-decision-on-drew-lock

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, danlhart87 said:

I read somewhere that Elway likes Lock and wants to stick with him 

 

Let me see if I can find it

I also heard that. Things can change in a hurry plus he is not going to say publicly how he feels

[NewColtsFan]

14 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think u might be shocked how many teams in thr top 10 go qb. Philly and Lions may decide to go young. Lock is not the answer for Broncos and I woukdnt be surprised to see Phins go qb.

Teams rarely give up on a top 5/10 pick at QB after one season.   I won’t say never.   Rosen got taken I think it was top-10 and got traded when the Cards had the top pick and took Murray.   
 

But so far, there is no talk coming out of Miami about the Dolphins being unhappy with Tua.   So the odds of this happening are likely less than 5 percent. 

[Moosejawcolt]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Teams rarely give up on a top 5/10 pick at QB after one season.   I won’t say never.   Rosen got taken I think it was top-15 and got traded when the Cards had the top pick and took Murray.   
 

But so far, there is no talk coming out of Miami about the Dolphins being unhappy with Tua.   So the odds of this happening are likely less than 5 percent. 

I agree with u and in most cases u r right.  However, the Phins head coach seems no nonsense. I do believe in the rumours that they inserted Tua to see what he could do. Look at what Burrows and Herbert did as rookies. U dont get to many chances to pick in the top 3. Forget  coaches name in Miami. He has learned the Patriot way. Bill never ever had  a problem moving on from a player.  Just a hunch, but I have a feeling that Phins are very concerned about Tuas play

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Teams rarely give up on a top 5/10 pick at QB after one season.   I won’t say never.   Rosen got taken I think it was top-15 and got traded when the Cards had the top pick and took Murray.   
 

But so far, there is no talk coming out of Miami about the Dolphins being unhappy with Tua.   So the odds of this happening are likely less than 5 percent. 

IMO Miami should stay with Tua. 

In 8 starts he has 1.453 yds, 10 tds, 2 picks and a rating of 92.5. He has also ran for 3 tds. 

That is not bad at all for a rookie QB. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Teams rarely give up on a top 5/10 pick at QB after one season.   I won’t say never.   Rosen got taken I think it was top-10 and got traded when the Cards had the top pick and took Murray.   
 

But so far, there is no talk coming out of Miami about the Dolphins being unhappy with Tua.   So the odds of this happening are likely less than 5 percent. 

Yeah I think Tua will be the starter in Miami next year no matter what happens Sunday.

[Moosejawcolt]

5 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Teams rarely give up on a top 5/10 pick at QB after one season.   I won’t say never.   Rosen got taken I think it was top-15 and got traded when the Cards had the top pick and took Murray.   
 

But so far, there is no talk coming out of Miami about the Dolphins being unhappy with Tua.   So the odds of this happening are likely less than 5 percent. 

I think  Darnold and Tua are in the same position. Teams will do an honest evaluation of both. If they feel that they are better long term. Then i think they stick with them. If Fields, who I am not high on, is sitting there at #2 or #3. Then it could get interesting.  Rookie qbs are so inexpensive now a days. 

[crazycolt1]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I think Tua will be the starter in Miami next year no matter what happens Sunday.

He is 6-2 as a starter. I highly doubt the Dolphins will be looking for a QB in their draft. 

With their draft picks they will be able to get a lot of help for him if they hit on their picks. 

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

IMO Miami should stay with Tua. 

In 8 starts he has 1.453 yds, 10 tds, 2 picks and a rating of 92.5. He has also ran for 3 tds. 

That is not bad at all for a rookie QB. 

I agree if u look at stats.  Alex Smith had great completion percentage. Would u want him as your franchise qb? Tua to me is in the Smith tier or lower. Nothing special

[NewColtsFan]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

I think  Darnold and Tua are in the same position. Teams will do an honest evaluation of both. If they feel that they are better long term. Then i think they stick with them. If Fields, who I am not high on, is sitting there at #2 or #3. Then it could get interesting.  Rookie qbs are so inexpensive now a days. 

The difference in the two QBs is Darnold has played three years.   Tua has played one.   That difference alone is night and day.  
 

Rookie QBs like Burrow and Herbert are the exception and not the rule.   The rule is rookie QBs typically struggle and then develop.  That’s more the norm.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree if u look at stats.  Alex Smith had great completion percentage. Would u want him as your franchise qb? Tua to me is in the Smith tier or lower. Nothing special

Tua is a rookie, give him time. I don't think he will ever be great but if he is solid, Miami will still be in good shape.

[crazycolt1]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

The difference in the two QBs is Darnold has played three years.   Tua has played one.   That difference alone is night and day.  
 

Rookie QBs like Burrow and Herbert are the exception and not the rule.   The rule is rookie QBs typically struggle and then develop.  That’s more the norm.  

Tua is lacking skilled wide receivers big time. 

[aaron11]

Tua has played 9 games i think.  he didnt set the league on fire but he has not looked like a total bust at all

 

Hes an accurate passer, will need to make more plays if he wants to stick around a long time.  he can do it

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

The difference in the two QBs is Darnold has played three years.   Tua has played one.   That difference alone is night and day.  
 

Rookie QBs like Burrow and Herbert are the exception and not the rule.   The rule is rookie QBs typically struggle and then develop.  That’s more the norm.  

Hmmmm. I think rookie qbs r set up to excel more these days. Coaches have adjusted and r not so stubborn. A lot of them are taking what made them successful in college to the pro ranks.  Tua worries me a lot. I just think coming out, there was nothing elite about him. I liked Herbert. I thought Burrow would bust as would Tua. Burrow had excellent campaign. He was very accurate short but not so on long plays. Now I expect defenses to scheme a little differently next year. 

[aaron11]

Just now, Moosejawcolt said:

I just think coming out, there was nothing elite about him

he is really accurate.  

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I agree if u look at stats.  Alex Smith had great completion percentage. Would u want him as your franchise qb? Tua to me is in the Smith tier or lower. Nothing special

It’s fine that you want a great franchise QB from the jump.   Do you know who else that does?    All 32 NFL teams.

 

But heres the deal...   in any given year, there are roughly 10-12 great franchise level QBs, maybe a few more.    Then there are about 8-12 good QBs, guys like Alex Smith.  Guys you can win with and make the playoffs.   And then there are about 8-10 QBs who start, but you’re not going anywhere with them.  Those guys are winning 4-8 games and those teams are always looking for the next quarterback hoping to find lightning in a bottle. 
 

So, if the best you can find is Alex Smith?  If the cost in picks and money is right, you take him and try to surround him with as much talent as you can and win with him until you can find better.    That’s reality in the NFL.