Former Saints Dc Williams Faces "bounty" Punishment (((((Merge)))))

[TubaGuy]

It will take more than that. I am going to guess they have some kinda tape either audio or video to prove the saints one. If some players say yeah he did this all it takes is another one to say no he didn't for it become he said vs he said.

Like I said I am not buying that he didn't do it with the Redskins I am just saying they don't have the proof for it like they do with the Saints or if they do they haven't presented it yet.

Then even if they do they still aren't going to give us a Saints draft pick for it. If they did that other teams are going to say they should get a pick too because you can't say one player is more important than others in the league even though we all know they are.

Actually, Williams has admitted to it. I think that is all the proof they need in regards to the Saints...

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

I think logic follows that it has happened previously based on reports, and I am certain the NFL is investigating it fully and actively. Expect more to come...

[21isSuperman]

There was an illegal block in the back on the pick-six.

That was after the ball had already changed possession, so even if they did get penalized, the Saints would have gotten the ball. Then they probably run the ball a few times and make a few short passes (and the way our defense was "tackling" Pierre Thomas and playing off coverage on the WRs, it wouldn't have made a difference) and ran the clock out

[bavanlan]

How long before we find out Gregg Williams was driving the car that cause Montae Reagor to crash and break his orbital bone before the same Redskins game?

[TubaGuy]

How long before we find out Gregg Williams was driving the car that cause Montae Reagor to crash and break his orbital bone before the same Redskins game?

No, he just payed into the pool to pay for someone to do it...

[JWF]

The Colts will not..and should not get draft picks for something that happened 6 seasons ago. If the NFL starts going that far back why not go all the way to every team who ever had a player injured playing against a Greg Williams coached defense? Now punishing the Saints, which the investigation actually involves, makes sense. Suspend and heavily fine the staff and maybe dock some lower round draft picks for a season or two would make sense to me if the findings hold up.

Ok so I just saw that the Washington Post is now reporting the Redskins also had a similar system while he was there.

I still dont think they can go back and hand out draft picks to teams because of this. The most they can do is punish the teams that were involved directly.

[WeSpy]

i dont agree with the late hits and i would like our players to be safe, but thats impossible. football is a violent and reckless sport. i just dont find it fair that the saints are the only ones getting blame when the majority of defenses do it.

But they are the only ones that there is hard evidence on! Or are you referring to the late hits? Because in that case, I would refer back to my earlier post: "...This is not a 'late hit' issue, this is a 'bounty' issue."

I appreciate the response, though.

[DILLIGAFER]

Make an example out of them so this doesnt happen again. Beyond stripping teams of picks, wins, ect.. do they not realize they could have killed someone? Im sick about this. Just sick.

[GoColts8818]

Actually, Williams has admitted to it. I think that is all the proof they need in regards to the Saints...

"I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson, and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the 'pay for performance' program while I was with the Saints. It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again."

I think logic follows that it has happened previously based on reports, and I am certain the NFL is investigating it fully and actively. Expect more to come...

Right I am not arguing the Saints one. What I am saying is you can't make the leap if you are the NFL from saying well if he did it with the Saints he must have done it with the Redskins. Like I said that would be like punishing the Browns for Spygate because BB once coached there too.

I am also saying I am not buying that Williams didn't just start doing it with the Saints either. However, unless the league has proof that he did it with the Redskins and Bills and anywhere he's coached you can't punish him for that just because it's not much a leap to make that he did it there too. My guess is if they had proof that he was doing this in other places they would have blown the whistle before now. Also that proof is going to need more to be more than some players saying he did it too. You are going to need some kinda proof like what they have to prove what he did with the Saints or Williams confessing to it. Even then to reward the Colts you would have to prove there was a hit on Manning. Right now it's just a logical guess. Also the counter arguement is going to be Peyton didn't miss time from that injury and again it would have to be jump to say that hit caused Manning's neck injury. Tony Dungy saying he thinks that's caused it doesn't count as proof either that is just an educated guess.

Either way the league is stil not going to give us one of the Redskins first round picks as a result because every team that had a player on offense get hurt the week that they played Williams is going to stand up and demand one and use the Colts getting one as precident to say they should get one.

Right now it's the Saints are on the hook for this in terms of teams (clearly Williams is as well.) The league will hit him and the Saints and unless more proof comes out than is out there now the Redskins aren't going to be punished for this just like the Browns weren't punished for spygate even though can probably use th same logic of well BB probably didn't start taping things till he got to New England.

[TubaGuy]

Actually, the Washington Post and Sporting News are already reporting the program going on in Washington under Williams...

http://aol.sportingn...n-bounty-system

That's why I say this is going to be a very big story. Look at Williams' history...he was also D coordinator with the Jaguars. His players there were always known for playing right up to, and more than once, crossing the line to late/dirty hits and playing. Anyone remember when Reggie was mugged a few years back down there? Yes, that was during Williams' tenure. I'm not saying all the players were dirty; I have nothing wrong with a good, hard-hitting defense. But Williams also was with the Oilers/Titans up to 2000...reports out tonight that the Titans also had a history of bounties. How many teams does it take to officially make a "track record"?

[TubaGuy]

...and the plot thickens...

This tonight from Boomer Esiason in Twitterland...

"Saints bounty issue only going 2 get worse. When further details emerge people will b stunned with who put $ in the fund"

[Jaric]

...and the plot thickens...

This tonight from Boomer Esiason in Twitterland...

"Saints bounty issue only going 2 get worse. When further details emerge people will b stunned with who put $ in the fund"

My money's on Drew Brees.

[GoColts8818]

Actually, the Washington Post and Sporting News are already reporting the program going on in Washington under Williams...

http://aol.sportingn...n-bounty-system

That's why I say this is going to be a very big story. Look at Williams' history...he was also D coordinator with the Jaguars. His players there were always known for playing right up to, and more than once, crossing the line to late/dirty hits and playing. Anyone remember when Reggie was mugged a few years back down there? Yes, that was during Williams' tenure. I'm not saying all the players were dirty; I have nothing wrong with a good, hard-hitting defense. But Williams also was with the Oilers/Titans up to 2000...reports out tonight that the Titans also had a history of bounties. How many teams does it take to officially make a "track record"?

Again Tuba it's gong to take more than players saying yes it happened here too. That's hear say. It's going to take some real proof, like I said I would be willing to bet there is some kinda tape that has the Saints nailed to the wall or something in writing that they can point too. Even if you prove that he did you still don't have the proof that there was a hit on Manning at least not right now. My guess is if that if that proof existed dating back to 2006 the league would not have waited six years to blow the whistle on it. Based on what is out there right now the only team you can punish is the Saints. More would have to come out to punish other teams (and it could very rarely is everything released when the story breaks.)

Even then you have the problem of Manning didn't miss time not even one play due to that injury for the Colts to argue hey that injury caused Manning's neck issues. All they have is Tony Dungy making an educated guess that the neck issue might have started there. It would take more than that to prove this case to the NFL.

Even if you can some how prove it which I doubt they can all the NFL is going to do is take picks away from Redskins not give them to the Colts because then all you did was open the door for any team who had a player on offense get hurt against Williams defenses to say hey we should get a first round pick too and then argue the Colts were treated with favoritism if you don't give it to them. The NFL has a long track record of punishing teams that did wrong doing not rewarding teams that were victums of another team's wrong doing.

I am not saying you can't make these jumps as fans and I think we all know there is a huge difference in being guility in the court of public opinion and being guility with someone like the NFL.

[TubaGuy]

Do I seriously think that the Colts will be awarded a compensatory pick? No, of course not. But I do think this is growing into what is going to be one of the largest stories in a number of years for the NFL. Goodell has made player safety his top priority of his tenure as commissioner, and this flies directly in the face of what he is trying to establish. That is why I think this is going to be an "example case", and that major fines, suspensions, and draft pick losses are going to happen. I do think the Redskins and Dan Snyder could definitely get caught up in this as well, although maybe not to the same extent since it was a number of years ago under Williams. If they find out it is still going on there, that could change.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Again Tuba it's gong to take more than players saying yes it happened here too. That's hear say. It's going to take some real proof, like I said I would be willing to bet there is some kinda tape that has the Saints nailed to the wall or something in writing that they can point too. Even if you prove that he did you still don't have the proof that there was a hit on Manning at least not right now. My guess is if that if that proof existed dating back to 2006 the league would not have waited six years to blow the whistle on it. Based on what is out there right now the only team you can punish is the Saints. More would have to come out to punish other teams (and it could very rarely is everything released when the story breaks.)

Even then you have the problem of Manning didn't miss time not even one play due to that injury for the Colts to argue hey that injury caused Manning's neck issues. All they have is Tony Dungy making an educated guess that the neck issue might have started there. It would take more than that to prove this case to the NFL.

Even if you can some how prove it which I doubt they can all the NFL is going to do is take picks away from Redskins not give them to the Colts because then all you did was open the door for any team who had a player on offense get hurt against Williams defenses to say hey we should get a first round pick too and then argue the Colts were treated with favoritism if you don't give it to them. The NFL has a long track record of punishing teams that did wrong doing not rewarding teams that were victums of another team's wrong doing.

I am not saying you can't make these jumps as fans and I think we all know there is a huge difference in being guility in the court of public opinion and being guility with someone like the NFL.

To be quite frankly his admitting to it in New Orleans should be enough to get him kicked out of the league. While I agree that the more proof that is uncovered the better, the NFL might do what they did with the Patriots scandal and sweep it under the rug as opposed to making everything public knowledge about when and how often the taping occurred. There is no doubt in my mind he would do it in other places. New Orleans was the only place that his team had a QB worth of being retaliated against.

[ThatOneColtFan]

Are you saying that NFL players wouldn't have hit Peyton without that bounty?

The bounty is despicable, and will be punished, but NFL players want to hit the QB no matter what.

No kidding.

But there are certain hits that are completely uncalled for.

I'm sure if Pats fans found out that Pollards hit on Brady back in 08 was part of a bounty, they'd flip their lid too.

Although, it's not that big of a deal now, because Peyton's neck issue is much more bigger than that.

[GoColts8818]

To be quite frankly his admitting to it in New Orleans should be enough to get him kicked out of the league. While I agree that the more proof that is uncovered the better, the NFL might do what they did with the Patriots scandal and sweep it under the rug as opposed to making everything public knowledge about when and how often the taping occurred. There is no doubt in my mind he would do it in other places. New Orleans was the only place that his team had a QB worth of being retaliated against.

I don't disagree with that. I think the NFL needs to drop the hammer on him and the Saints.

I think it's pretty clear the NFL already tried to sweep it under the rug. I saw it reported the owner told the GM to stop and the GM didn't follow threw on that. Who do you think told the owner this was going on? I am guessing the league told the Saints what was going on to try to get them to clean it up on their own. The Saints ignored it and now the league had to act. One thing I've learned about Goodell is that when he tells you to do something and you ignore it you are in deep trouble with him.

Again I don't doubt he did it in other places either. I am just saying without some more proof you can't punish those other teams too.

[ruksak]

You'd be surprised how a game could turn out if your best defensive player is healthy.

No, I wouldn't.

Just sayin, Garcon started the slide and Manning threw in away. Freeney would've helped but he was limping like a wounded dog at the start of the game as it was.

[GoColts8818]

Do I seriously think that the Colts will be awarded a compensatory pick? No, of course not. But I do think this is growing into what is going to be one of the largest stories in a number of years for the NFL. Goodell has made player safety his top priority of his tenure as commissioner, and this flies directly in the face of what he is trying to establish. That is why I think this is going to be an "example case", and that major fines, suspensions, and draft pick losses are going to happen. I do think the Redskins and Dan Snyder could definitely get caught up in this as well, although maybe not to the same extent since it was a number of years ago under Williams. If they find out it is still going on there, that could change.

That part I don't disagree with. I do think Williams and the Saints are going to be made examples out of.

If more proof comes out that he did it with the Redskins (again beyond players saying oh yeah he did it here too) then the hammer should be dropped on them too.

[FireJimCaldwell]

I don't disagree with that. I think the NFL needs to drop the hammer on him and the Saints.

I think it's pretty clear the NFL already tried to sweep it under the rug. I saw it reported the owner told the GM to stop and the GM didn't follow threw on that. Who do you think told the owner this was going on? I am guessing the league told the Saints what was going on to try to get them to clean it up on their own. The Saints ignored it and now the league had to act. One thing I've learned about Goodell is that when he tells you to do something and you ignore it you are in deep trouble with him.

Again I don't doubt he did it in other places either. I am just saying without some more proof you can't punish those other teams too.

If more proof shows it was done in Tennessee/Buffalo/Washington, then they need to be hit too. If Payton gets fined, Fisher, Del Rio and Gibbs deserve a fine...

It's not fair to punish the Rams, by losing a DC, but he doesn't deserve to coach/teach the game of football on any level.

[TubaGuy]

Are you saying that NFL players wouldn't have hit Peyton without that bounty?

The bounty is despicable, and will be punished, but NFL players want to hit the QB no matter what.

Hard hits are an exciting, and accepted, part of the NFL game. The problem you are dismissing is the bounty factor. The entire premise of the bounty is to make the "BIG" hit. When a player is focused on that, it can make a player continue on for a split second when they should be letting up. All it takes is that one split second. Driving a player into the ground instead of letting up. Holding a player's head instead of letting up. Holding a player and turning them, torquing their body instead of letting up. All in the name of the "BIG" play, the bounty reward. THAT is the focus here, not simply hitting the QB.

[GoColts8818]

If more proof shows it was done in Tennessee/Buffalo/Washington, then they need to be hit too. If Payton gets fined, Fisher, Del Rio and Gibbs deserve a fine...

It's not fair to punish the Rams, by losing a DC, but he doesn't deserve to coach/teach the game of football on any level.

I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Right now that proof isn't out there though. If it comes out then yes you have to punish those teams/coaches too.

[Bleedinblue]

I don't disagree with that. I think the NFL needs to drop the hammer on him and the Saints.

I think it's pretty clear the NFL already tried to sweep it under the rug. I saw it reported the owner told the GM to stop and the GM didn't follow threw on that. Who do you think told the owner this was going on? I am guessing the league told the Saints what was going on to try to get them to clean it up on their own. The Saints ignored it and now the league had to act. One thing I've learned about Goodell is that when he tells you to do something and you ignore it you are in deep trouble with him.

Again I don't doubt he did it in other places either. I am just saying without some more proof you can't punish those other teams too.

Maybe the punishment for the Saints should be that they have to play in the CFL for a couple of years...

[Fx Stryker]

Maybe the punishment for the Saints should be that they have to play in the CFL for a couple of years...

Why punish the CFL?

[Bleedinblue]

Why punish the CFL?

Good point! Are you thinking the lingerie football league???

[eaglejoe8]

i dont agree with the late hits and i would like our players to be safe, but thats impossible. football is a violent and reckless sport. i just dont find it fair that the saints are the only ones getting blame when the majority of defenses do it.

You're saying the majority of defenses are paid (by players AND coaches) to intentionally injure players? Can you back that up?

[Fx Stryker]

Good point! Are you thinking the lingerie football league???

Only if the have to wear the uniforms.

[CR91]

You're saying the majority of defenses are paid (by players AND coaches) to intentionally injure players? Can you back that up?

can you tell me they havent?

[GoColts8818]

Well to add fuel to the fire Tony Dungy is saying the Titans had a bounty on Peyton...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/02/dungy-titans-had-a-bounty-on-peyton-manning/

[UndecidedFrog]

Well to add fuel to the fire Tony Dungy is saying the Titans had a bounty on Peyton...

http://profootballta...peyton-manning/

It seems this bounty thing follows Greg Williams around from team to team.

[21isSuperman]

can you tell me they havent?

There has been nothing in the past that shows every defense does it. No reports have come up; innocent until proven guilty. A number of players accused the Saints of playing dirty during the season and people brushed it off. Now, we see there really was something going on

[CR91]

There has been nothing in the past that shows every defense does it. No reports have come up; innocent until proven guilty. A number of players accused the Saints of playing dirty during the season and people brushed it off. Now, we see there really was something going on

just because nothing is reported doesnt mean nothing is happening. the public is kept in the dark to many secrets.

[BoyzInBlue..&White]

Williams gets banned for life, SP gets suspended for half the season if not all. I don't see them "stripping" the SB title from New Orleans as that will cause unrest in the South, but I do see the infamous ( * ) Asterisk next to it in the good 'ole books. Saints have to give up picks and quite possibly the 'Skins. Williams has to be one of the biggest durpiddy durps in the league right now. You can't do/allow something like this and expect it NOT to happen. Everybody is looking for their time in the spotlight these days. IT IS GOING TO COME OUT IN THE WASH!

[GoColts8818]

It seems this bounty thing follows Greg Williams around from team to team.

I don't doubt it does however, proving it and just being able to make a logical conculsion are different things.

What I mean by that is that I have no doubt in my mind it's clear Williams has done this most of if not his whole career. I think just about any logical person can agree on that.

However, in order for the league to prove it it's going to take a little more than some players and coaches saying hey it happened here too to prove it so the league can punish other teams. It sounds like the Saints are already nailed to the wall for it and Sharper is already trying to defend it by saying hey we had bounties for things like INTs but to say the Saints had one for hurting players is rediculous. As crazy as that sounds that's why you have to have proof beyond other players and coaches saying hey it happened here too or else it becomes a case of he said vs he said.

I think the Saints are in deep trouble, I think the Saints team will be punished, I think the coaches are going to punished, I think their owner is going to be punished and I think their players are going to be punished.

With that said unless more proof comes out I am not sure you can punish teams like the Titans, Bills, or Redskins right now. With that said if I were those teams I would be nervous right now. I do think it would be hard to sit on that information though if the league had it for all these years and I don't think the league would have. I think they would have punished them before now if they had proof that they could bust the other teams for.

Again I want to be clear I a NOT saying it didn't happen with the other teams. Frankly I'd be shocked if it didn't but I'd also be shocked if BB wasn't taping things with the Browns too. He just didn't get caught doing it like he did with the Pats and the league didn't go back and punish the Browns because they couldn't prove it happened with the Browns. That might be what happens here too. In the court of Public Opinion I think it's pretty reasonable to say hey it happened other places too. Proving it so the NFL can punish those other teams is going to be another and to this point (and more could clearly come out) I don't think enough has come out to punish other teams besides the Saints.

[ruksak]

Kinda shocked it took this long to come out? The way players bounce around, you'd think a rat woulda spoken out before now.

[GoColts8818]

Kinda shocked it took this long to come out? The way players bounce around, you'd think a rat woulda spoken out before now.

A rat probably did which is what caused the NFL to start to investgate the Saints to get the proof that they could nail the Saints for it. You can't go off player word alone on something like this because you never know if a player just had a grudge against Williams or the Saints for some reason. You have to have proof and that probably comes in the form of either something written down or some form of tape rather it be video or audio. I think it's pretty clear the NFL does have proof which is why they are going public with it now. It's sorta like when the Feds go after someone they wait till they know you are guilty and have ironclad proof most of the time before charging you.

[JWF]

As far as going back to 2006, it's called investigation. If players see this blowing up in a major way, there might be some former players that decide to talk. Believe me, focus is currently on the Saints, but quickly it's developing into looking at Williams' full past...including the Redskins, Jaguars, etc. If they see a trend, investigate, and find that players, management and ownership were fully aware of the program even back in '06, then yes...I can see the Skins and Snyder getting nailed on this as well with strong sanctions.

I quoted myself and admitted I stand corrected as I saw the Washington post article reporting the Redskins also had something similar going on too. I agree the NFL should investigate this as it is pretty recent. I just think at somepoint in his past you have to cutoff where the investigation goes (atleast with the intent on punishing teams and other coaches). If they investigate other teams to consider really putting the hammer down on Williams, Im all for it.

[21isSuperman]

just because nothing is reported doesnt mean nothing is happening. the public is kept in the dark to many secrets.

True, but if almost every team in the NFL was doing this, then we would almost certainly see more evidence of it. But when multiple players go out of their way to call one team out, the team's aggressive play is raising eyebrows (like it did in the NFC Championship Game), and the team goes out of its way to say things like "we are going to deliver 'forget-me-shots' to the opposing QB", then there might be more of a foundation for a claim against a specific team. But we haven't heard of anything like this about any other team

[bluebombers87]

So because everyone (or nearly everyone) does it, they shouldn't be punished to the full extent? Should everyone be punished even though we don't have proof on any team EXCEPT the Saints? Or should they get a mild punishment and give other teams the idea of risk/reward?

And even if a lot of teams do it, it doesn't make it right or excuse that behavior.

And yes football is a violent sport, which is why control is needed so players don't get hurt. Which is why we don't need guys like Williams offering incentives to hurt players.

What if this were your kid being targeted because he or she was talented and stood in the way of the other team winning a GAME?

[COLT in J-ville]

You know the whole adding the word GATE to the end of anything that is a controversy thing is REALLY getting old

[CR91]

let me clear what ive been saying. in no way do i agree with what the saints are doing, but the point im trying to make is that other teams do it as well theres just no proof, but you see it during the game.