Is our defense as bad as rankings and stats say?

[Trace Pyott]

I was thinking about how our defense seems to have improved from years past and decided to look up our team defensive stats and  was horrified. I was expecting us to be ranked around  20 in yards per game and somewhere around 16 to 20 in points allowed per game. Nope!!! We are basically in the bottom 2 or 3 in each of those categories. Is it just me or does it feel like we are better than that and at least better than we were last year and the years past?  Does anyone know how we compare to our teams the last 4 or 5 years?  Also I was thinking of making a thread on if we have another decent draft (not great but decent) and we address mostly defense in the draft and free agency especially a good coverage linebacker and A good pass rusher, oh and if Andrew luck comes back and can keep the offense on the field longer how do you see our rankings in points per game and yards per game looking this time next yr?  How much better do you think we can get?

[Dark Superman]

Yes and no.

Our defense is young and a lot of these guys are playing together for the first time.

The offense struggles to stay on the field, so our defense is on the field quite a bit.

 

[gnet550]

I feel like we have had a more takeaways then years past, so that gets me excited about the defense in years to come.  We will need help in the pass-rush department and definitely a true MLB.  Cannot forget the defense has been decimated by injuries again this year.

 

Another thing that cannot be lost is without Andrew running the show the defense is usually out there for more snaps because the offense doesn't have many long sustained drives.  If there were those longer sustained drives the defense would not be out there as much. In theory that would mean less yards and points given up.  Just my opinion .

[Smonroe]

Right now we're 15th in run defense, which isn't too bad.

 

Matt Danely at StampedeBlue made a good point - take away two of those breakaway runs.  I think they totaled about 150 yards.  Give each guy a 10 yard run instead, so take away 130 yards from the run defense.

 

He said it moved us into the top 7. 

 

I know you can play with statistics all day, and the correct way to do that would be to take away the top two plays from every team.  But it still shows that the D isn't as bad as some think.

 

The good thing about the pass defense is their youth.  I'm concerned about our safety position, a lot of unknowns there.

[WERC82]

The answer is no, and without the injuries we would be much better, Simon and Anderson especially.

[life long]

Coaching goes a long way....

 

At the end of games if the Colts have a lead, everyone can tell they stop bringing pressure and get conservative. We bring 5-6 rusher's majority of the game, then at the end of games we rush 2-4 defender's. It kills me.... A lot of our yards and points are given up at these times including before halftime. Coaching. Coaching. Coaching. We have the size and strength. 

[DaveA1102]

I think the two main issues for us are that we are a new unit and, with the offense struggling to stay on the field in the second half of games, we are getting exposed on long plays due to the newness of the unit playing together and the fact we are a fairly young group.  Experience and time together should fix that.

 

I am sure that we are worst in big plays given up and that severely skews what has been a solid effort this year so far and, if we can get that tidied up, should be a decent unit together.

[Fluke_33]

48 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

Right now we're 15th in run defense, which isn't too bad.

 

Matt Danely at StampedeBlue made a good point - take away two of those breakaway runs.  I think they totaled about 150 yards.  Give each guy a 10 yard run instead, so take away 130 yards from the run defense.

 

He said it moved us into the top 7. 

 

I know you can play with statistics all day, and the correct way to do that would be to take away the top two plays from every team.  But it still shows that the D isn't as bad as some think.

 

The good thing about the pass defense is their youth.  I'm concerned about our safety position, a lot of unknowns there.

 

[The Fish]

It's a bad defense that looks like it's improving because last years defense was historically bad.

They need to be healthy and they really need a MLB that isn't totally one dimensional (and not great at that one dimension- run stopping).

[#12.]

Overall, they are what the numbers say, but perhaps things are headed in the right direction.  Sheard is playing well and the secondary looks much better without Vontae.  Still need to add a few game changers for them to ever become a top-10 unit.

[NewColtsFan]

 

In the immortal words of Bill Parcells,  you are what your record says you are.

 

We had a number of terrible games early on and those are still badly impacting our stats.    But recently we've been playng better. 

 

By the time we play 6 more games,  and hopefully play them better,  our stats shouldn't look so terrible.

 

But we've actually got to deliver now.     We were young and inexperienced to start the year.     Now we've got some experience our play needs to reflect that.       Will be worth watching as we close out the season.

 

[csmopar]

6 minutes ago, The Fish said:

It's a bad defense that looks like it's improving because last years defense was historically bad.

They need to be healthy and they really need a MLB that isn't totally one dimensional (and not great at that one dimension- run stopping).

I disagree.  We've had some real bad moments, but if you look at the games, outside of 2 games, we were right in the thick of things until the offense sputtered in the 2nd half and our D was on the field for a majority of the half.  They got winded.  Now some of that is lack of depth, some of it maybe conditioning, some of it is scheme/coaching, and yes, some of it is lack of talent, especially at ILB, which is where we have been burnt a ton. 

[#12.]

4 minutes ago, csmopar said:

I disagree.  We've had some real bad moments, but if you look at the games, outside of 2 games, we were right in the thick of things until the offense sputtered in the 2nd half and our D was on the field for a majority of the half.  They got winded.  Now some of that is lack of depth, some of it maybe conditioning, some of it is scheme/coaching, and yes, some of it is lack of talent, especially at ILB, which is where we have been burnt a ton. 

 

Good defenses gut out games like that all the time.  They make plays, force turnovers and score on defense.  If you are completely reliant on what the offense is doing, you're not a very good defense.  

 

That said, i'm not sure i totally agree with that characterization.  In all three of the wins, the defense let the Browns, 49ers and Texans back in the game,  barely holding on each time.

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Good defenses gut out games like that all the time.  They make plays, force turnovers and score on defense.  If you are completely reliant on what the offense is doing, you're not a very good defense.  

 

That said, i'm not sure i totally agree with that characterization.  In all three of the wins, the defense let the Browns, 49ers and Texans back in the game,  barely holding on each time.

You realize you just proved my point with the bolded right?  letting a team "back in the game" proves my point that in the 2nd half, the D gets tired and wore out.  For the reasons mentioned above.  That doesn't mean they didnt play well for the first 3 quarters.  Now I dont think we are a "great or even a good" Defense.  But I dont think we're as bad as it appears at first glance of the stats either.

[Creekside]

The defense played well enough to give the Colts a 6-4 record.

 

The Colt offense lost these three games:

 

1) Cardinals.... With 7:38 left in the 4th, Phoenix gets their first TD cutting the Colts lead to 13-10. In regulation the Cardinals would get one more field goal, and the Colts offense would punt 3 times. Then, in OT, the Colts offense throws a pick at the IND 21 giving the Cardinals an easy winning field goal.

 

2) Bengals....The Colts lead 23-17 with 7:05 left in the 4th when the Colts offense threw a pick 6 giving the Bengals what would become the winning score at 24-23. The Colts offense had two more possessions where they punted and failed on 4th down.

 

3) Steelers....The Colts lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter 17-9 when the Colts offense threw a pick at the IND 10 yd line giving the Steelers a 1st and goal resulting in a tie game 17-17. The Colt offense would not score again     and the Steelers kicked a game winning field goal when time expired.

[IinD]

They have pieces.

 

Add a pass rusher and one good LB in the middle and it's a huge improvement over the Grigson D's.

[ColtsBlueFL]

On 11/21/2017 at 7:29 AM, Dark Superman said:

Yes and no.

Our defense is young and a lot of these guys are playing together for the first time.

The offense struggles to stay on the field, so our defense is on the field quite a bit.

 

 

On 11/21/2017 at 7:59 AM, gnet550 said:

I feel like we have had a more takeaways then years past, so that gets me excited about the defense in years to come.  We will need help in the pass-rush department and definitely a true MLB.  Cannot forget the defense has been decimated by injuries again this year.

 

Another thing that cannot be lost is without Andrew running the show the defense is usually out there for more snaps because the offense doesn't have many long sustained drives.  If there were those longer sustained drives the defense would not be out there as much. In theory that would mean less yards and points given up.  Just my opinion .

 

 

I keep hearing this, so went and looked up ToP/Gm.  We are ranked 16th on O at 30:17, and ranked 14th on D at 30:45 per game.  That is a disparity of 28 seconds for the whole year, including overtime.  Mid pack, and even steven.

 

That fact is, I see the issue is the young D holds there own until later in the game, even though they give up huge explosive plays all too frequently (dead last in explosive plays surrendered... 47 >20 and 10 >40 yards). Then late in the game, opposing teams do 2 things, turn loose their blitz packages (causing poor play - the biggest O issue late), and run P.A. fakes and take many shots deep downfield; hoping for a breakdown in man coverage for a TD long gain, or even a P.I. penalty spot foul.

 

Because our D does give up fast game wrecking plays way more than any other team, It seems coaches drop more defenders into zones and try to keep everything in front of them.  However, this even backfires, as I've seen defenders play way too far off their man, who then catches it in front of them, and makes them miss in the open field and break off a long YAC.  Just what the prevent zone is designed to prevent, and we don't even execute that very well either.

 

It is at this point people clamor for the press/man coverage; as it seems it can't be worse, and maybe they even make a play here and there.  Or... get burned for another 43+ yard pass play anyway.  With this team right now, you don't know what you will get in either man or zone.  Except, for the real possibility of giving up an explosive play.  That is a real issue and needs to be cleaned up at some point.  Maybe with experience and a better pass rush.

 

However, the offense must learn pass pro vs. stunts and creative blitz packages- notably from the slot cornerback.

[CanuckColtsFan]

On 11/21/2017 at 10:31 AM, egg said:

The defense played well enough to give the Colts a 6-4 record.

 

The Colt offense lost these three games:

 

1) Cardinals.... With 7:38 left in the 4th, Phoenix gets their first TD cutting the Colts lead to 13-10. In regulation the Cardinals would get one more field goal, and the Colts offense would punt 3 times. Then, in OT, the Colts offense throws a pick at the IND 21 giving the Cardinals an easy winning field goal.

 

2) Bengals....The Colts lead 23-17 with 7:05 left in the 4th when the Colts offense threw a pick 6 giving the Bengals what would become the winning score at 24-23. The Colts offense had two more possessions where they punted and failed on 4th down.

 

3) Steelers....The Colts lead at the beginning of the 4th quarter 17-9 when the Colts offense threw a pick at the IND 10 yd line giving the Steelers a 1st and goal resulting in a tie game 17-17. The Colt offense would not score again     and the Steelers kicked a game winning field goal when time expired.

I like this breakdown. I fully think we would be in the thick of a playoff race with a slightly better offense. I think Jacoby would be capable of winning these games with a full camp and pre season. This is very promising. I think Pags is a better coach than he gets credit for.

[King Colt]

Why should any defense play well when the offense is incompetent? 

[Creekside]

9 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

 I think Jacoby would be capable of winning these games with a full camp and pre season.     I think Pags is a better coach than he gets credit for.

 

I agree with both points. The Colts defense had 4 bad games out of 10 and will only improve. The offense will be scoring a lot more points with Luck, or even a more experienced Brissett. I'm very optimistic about next year. 

[rockywoj]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

Why should any defense play well when the offense is incompetent? 

Aside from Walter Payton, ask that question of the ‘85 Bears.

[jameszeigler834]

On ‎11‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:29 AM, Dark Superman said:

Yes and no.

Our defense is young and a lot of these guys are playing together for the first time.

The offense struggles to stay on the field, so our defense is on the field quite a bit.

 

The last 3 games yes but we give up way too many big plays and those two blowouts early in the year have the stat sheet misleading.

[crazycolt1]

14 hours ago, King Colt said:

Why should any defense play well when the offense is incompetent? 

Is this a trick question?

[crazycolt1]

12 hours ago, jameszeigler834 said:

The last 3 games yes but we give up way too many big plays and those two blowouts early in the year have the stat sheet misleading.

Not only that but last season teams were running all over us. We seemed to have at least slowed that down a lot.

If we only had a couple of steady pass rushers all the numbers for the defense would read better.

[PeterBowman]

21 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Aside from Walter Payton, ask that question of the ‘85 Bears.

or the Trent Dilfer lead 2000 Ravens.

[King Colt]

23 hours ago, rockywoj said:

Aside from Walter Payton, ask that question of the ‘85 Bears.

Some offense players: Bortz, Covert, VanHorn, Hillgenberg, Thayer, Humphries, Gault,              Mc Mahon..."aside from Payton"...............not too shabby.

Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka did not have much admiration for each other to put it politely. The defense carried Buddy Ryan of the field while the offense carried Ditka. Buddy Ryan also famous for punching Kevin Mc Bride the Oilers 0ffensive coordinator during a game with the Jets in 1993. The 85 Bears were not the only defense that were good in a SB.

[rockywoj]

2 hours ago, King Colt said:

Some offense players: Bortz, Covert, VanHorn, Hillgenberg, Thayer, Humphries, Gault,              Mc Mahon..."aside from Payton"...............not too shabby.

Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka did not have much admiration for each other to put it politely. The defense carried Buddy Ryan of the field while the offense carried Ditka. Buddy Ryan also famous for punching Kevin Mc Bride the Oilers 0ffensive coordinator during a game with the Jets in 1993. The 85 Bears were not the only defense that were good in a SB.

Their OL was okay, Jimbo Covert in particular, but I thought their re rivers were weak at best.  Vault in particular was little more than a speedster his physical skill set failed to translate beyond mediocrity as a receiver.  A decent line, a great runningback, mediocre receivers, and a brash, but mediocre QB.  Yet I loved dem Bears!  To this day, the greatest defense I had ever seen!