Peyton, Stay Away...its Best For You!

[Display name available]

I mean...try and imagine the scenario that Peyton does come back and play. He plays a OK game but the Colts looses and the crowd screams for LUCK.... it would be an absolutely nightmare for Peyton and his legacy!

So I say, stay away Peyton...we love you, but your better off somewhere else!

[BmoreColt]

Tampa has over 60 million available in cap room. They could realistically get Peyton, Wayne, Mario Williams, and some other realistic pieces and become a contender.

[CR91]

I mean...try and imagine the scenario that Peyton does come back and play. He plays a OK game but the Colts looses and the crowd screams for LUCK.... it would be an absolutely nightmare for Peyton and his legacy!

So I say, stay away Peyton...we love you, but your better off somewhere else!

if he goes to another team, it will be career suicide. it takes years to learn peyton's system. by the time peyton's system is learned by another team, he'll be 40

[KeyserSoza]

It's Peyton Manning. Do you honestly think fans would be calling for his head? The media will, but not the fans. Unless he only plays okay for half the season.

[JimJaime]

I think the REAL question is does Peyton want come back to a team in full blown rebuild, or go to a team who with him can win the SB. (Teams like SF,Jets, even the Phins)

[Happy2BeHere]

It'll be interesting to see where everything ends up...

[Display name available]

It's Peyton Manning. Do you honestly think fans would be calling for his head? The media will, but not the fans. Unless he only plays okay for half the season.

Fans wants wins, if they don't get it.. they want change. Hence the total rebuilding phase we have here in Indy right now.

[hawkeyes]

Seen a poll this morning about wanting Manning to stay in Indy only 1 state in the entire US wanted him to stay in Indy - INDIANA! Of course all the other teams dont want him here - if he is here we win! PERIOD!

The rebuilding phase is due to poor leadership and poor coaching, more so than just not winning, If Polian and Caldwell had done a good job last year, there would be no changes after just one season of losing without Manning.

[Larry Horseman]

I think the REAL question is does Peyton want come back to a team in full blown rebuild, or go to a team who with him can win the SB. (Teams like SF,Jets, even the Phins)

Weren't the 49ers in full-blown rebuild entering this season? Maybe I'm just a homer, but the Colts have a new staff and FO, which is a good thing, but aren't as untalented as people are throwing around. It is a similar situation to SF, imo.

[Busta]

Cant make a new thread so i posted here if someone would.

Report: Peyton Manning had 4 neck surgeries

Citing NFL sources, SI.com's Don Banks reports that Peyton Manning has undergone four surgeries on his neck over the past two seasons, not three as widely reported.

The fourth was an undisclosed procedure, per Banks, and occurred between his May 23 and September 9 surgeries. In other words, Manning had three neck operations in one offseason. Banks reports that Manning's neck may have "developed bone spurs," and Colts doctors believe he will "inevitably ... at some point require further surgery." Manning reportedly still wanted to play in 2011 and was targeting Week 16. Colts doctors quickly ruled him out after a brief workout. At the time, it is estimated that Manning had 80 percent of his usual arm strength and "his passes wobbled at times." The Colts have concern that Manning's neck problems are chronic and perhaps even genetic, as Peyton's brother Cooper was forced to give up football at a young age due to spinal stenosis.

Source: SI.com

Feb 15 - 2:28 PM

[jemack]

OK so his passes have (mostly) have always wobbled and he needs a walker. What's your point?

[Coltsagent]

I thought when I opened this post it was going to be more of a plea for Peyton to look at his long term health and his family that needs him. But rather its about Luck and the fans turning on Peyton. It would never, ever, happen. Sure you would always have this small fraction that you can never please, but if Peyton comes running out of that tunnel on opening day the fans know now, more than ever, to be thankful for every single second he is able to be out there. It would give fans the chance for closure, which gives him a huge rope to hang from.

[WoolMagnet]

I mean...try and imagine the scenario that Peyton does come back and play. He plays a OK game but the Colts looses and the crowd screams for LUCK.... it would be an absolutely nightmare for Peyton and his legacy!

So I say, stay away Peyton...we love you, but your better off somewhere else!

I have a feeling Peyton is thinking that.

Unless he leads us to a Super Bowl win, there will be some screaming for Luck.

Its almost a no-win situation.

Its a shame we have to age.

Too bad life isn't like the movie "In Time". If it were, with all his money, peyton would say 25 for infinity!

[doogansquest]

I think the REAL question is does Peyton want come back to a team in full blown rebuild, or go to a team who with him can win the SB. (Teams like SF,Jets, even the Phins)

Any team he's on is a contender. Let's not kid ourselves. He'll have new pieces, new coaches (that actually do their job), and a weak division to conquer. I mean, we went 1-1 against the Texans without Peyton. I am not afraid of them at all, and they may lose Mario Williams.

A new season means everyone is a contender. I don't say that arbitrarily, either. Every year, there are teams that made the playoffs the previous season who don't get there; as well as teams that didn't make the playoffs who arrive. I think the 49ers will have a down year next season, as will Cam Newton. I also feel as though the Texans D will step back a pinch. Things don't just "keep getting better" because they were good before. It actually goes the opposite way most of the time. Even if a team keeps every single player, adds new (proven) free agents and a few good rookies, that doesn't mean they will suddenly be better. Peyton Manning has been about the most steady, consistently sure thing in NFL history. He puts up numbers, and he wins games. Now he will (presumably) have coaching around him. A part of our team's failures in the past was the coaching, not the talent.

People keep saying "Look how bad we were without him," and, "2-14 proves we're not a contender." Not only is that false reasoning, that was also under Polian/Caldwell. The 2011 season proved they had no idea what to do. Most people agree that, with good coaching, Peyton could/should have more championships. Well, now he's getting an entire staff of defensive-minded guys, all going into camp together to implement something that teams won't be prepared for. They've been used to the same-old, same-old from the Colts for so long that now they'll have no idea what to expect. Reminds me a bit of the 49ers who, sorry, aren't more talented than we are.

Peyton's potentially coming into the best situation of his football life. If he's healthy, the rebuild won't take long. Houston pulled off a new scheme, the 49ers a new coaching staff, and the Panthers went from perpetually last to relevant because of a 1-year college star.

Besides, if Peyton goes to one of these other, so-called "contenders," and wins, that means Luck and your Colts aren't winning. You will be instantly whining about the decision to let Peyton walk if he wins Super Bowls somewhere else. I promise you that.

[WoolMagnet]

_{I just realized, I guess this erases ALL chances of Manning's son ever playing here.}

_{He'd do an "Eli" for sure if we drafted him.}

_{And btw, if you think about THAT situation (Eli's draft), it makes you wonder even more about what manning has "up his sleeves".}

[UndecidedFrog]

Besides, if Peyton goes to one of these other, so-called "contenders," and wins, that means Luck and your Colts aren't winning.

That does not follow at all.

From the way you stated that sentence, I guess you do not consider yourself a Colts fan.

Yes, these will be my Colts, and apparently not yours.

Very enlightening.

[BleedingBlue]

I have a feeling Peyton is thinking that.

Unless he leads us to a Super Bowl win, there will be some screaming for Luck.

Its almost a no-win situation.

Its a shame we have to age.

Too bad life isn't like the movie "In Time". If it were, with all his money, peyton would say 25 for infinity!

no it IS a no win situation. The only way this ends weill is if PM retires a colt now. I thought all along that this is what Irsay wanted. PM to pull a Favre.

[UndecidedFrog]

no it IS a no win situation. The only way this ends weill is if PM retires a colt now. I thought all along that this is what Irsay wanted. PM to pull a Favre.

Favre was not coming off multiple neck surgeries when he decided to retire and then unretire.

[BleedingBlue]

regardless irsay probably presumed manning would want to play even if not 100%. the only way both parties is to save face is to have pm retire a colt, then PM can do the Favre if he wants to. what pm does after he retires isn't any of irsay's concern.

[Warhorse]

He may want to stay away if he ever read this forum.

[The Peytonator]

Any team he's on is a contender. Let's not kid ourselves. He'll have new pieces, new coaches (that actually do their job), and a weak division to conquer. I mean, we went 1-1 against the Texans without Peyton. I am not afraid of them at all, and they may lose Mario Williams.

A new season means everyone is a contender. I don't say that arbitrarily, either. Every year, there are teams that made the playoffs the previous season who don't get there; as well as teams that didn't make the playoffs who arrive. I think the 49ers will have a down year next season, as will Cam Newton. I also feel as though the Texans D will step back a pinch. Things don't just "keep getting better" because they were good before. It actually goes the opposite way most of the time. Even if a team keeps every single player, adds new (proven) free agents and a few good rookies, that doesn't mean they will suddenly be better. Peyton Manning has been about the most steady, consistently sure thing in NFL history. He puts up numbers, and he wins games. Now he will (presumably) have coaching around him. A part of our team's failures in the past was the coaching, not the talent.

People keep saying "Look how bad we were without him," and, "2-14 proves we're not a contender." Not only is that false reasoning, that was also under Polian/Caldwell. The 2011 season proved they had no idea what to do. Most people agree that, with good coaching, Peyton could/should have more championships. Well, now he's getting an entire staff of defensive-minded guys, all going into camp together to implement something that teams won't be prepared for. They've been used to the same-old, same-old from the Colts for so long that now they'll have no idea what to expect. Reminds me a bit of the 49ers who, sorry, aren't more talented than we are.

Peyton's potentially coming into the best situation of his football life. If he's healthy, the rebuild won't take long. Houston pulled off a new scheme, the 49ers a new coaching staff, and the Panthers went from perpetually last to relevant because of a 1-year college star.

Besides, if Peyton goes to one of these other, so-called "contenders," and wins, that means Luck and your Colts aren't winning. You will be instantly whining about the decision to let Peyton walk if he wins Super Bowls somewhere else. I promise you that.

Dude, I don't think I've ever seen a post that I agreed with 110%. And some people say you're a stubborn, pessimistic fan....I don't get it.

I love what you said about how our new coaches/philosophies will be something the rest of the league won't be prepared for. More often than not, when a team changes something schematically, they have success with it for a good year or so, and then the league figures it out. This will be what happens in Houston. Of course they were the 2nd defense overall this year, so they don't really have anywhere to go but down. Our team on the other hand, will be changing philosophies on that side of the ball, and we will see a very improved defense. Our team has good players, they just weren't put in the best position to succeed on defense, and that will change.

There is no way in heck, that with even an 80% healthy Peyton, this team is any worse than 12-4 for 2012. We can all agree 2010 wasn't our best year by Peyton's standards. But even then he pulled off a Division Title with an extremely injury riddled supporting cast, no running game, Charlie Johnson protecting his blind side (funny how once he leaves a Peyton-run offense he starts sucking), our bland, predictable, 10 yard cushion, soft defense, and our extremely underqualified head coach.

[Fx Stryker]

Fans calling for Peyton's head and call for Luck? lmao lmao lmao lmao lmao lmao lmao

What planet are you from seriously?

[JimJaime]

Any team he's on is a contender. Let's not kid ourselves. He'll have new pieces, new coaches (that actually do their job), and a weak division to conquer. I mean, we went 1-1 against the Texans without Peyton. I am not afraid of them at all, and they may lose Mario Williams.

A new season means everyone is a contender. I don't say that arbitrarily, either. Every year, there are teams that made the playoffs the previous season who don't get there; as well as teams that didn't make the playoffs who arrive. I think the 49ers will have a down year next season, as will Cam Newton. I also feel as though the Texans D will step back a pinch. Things don't just "keep getting better" because they were good before. It actually goes the opposite way most of the time. Even if a team keeps every single player, adds new (proven) free agents and a few good rookies, that doesn't mean they will suddenly be better. Peyton Manning has been about the most steady, consistently sure thing in NFL history. He puts up numbers, and he wins games. Now he will (presumably) have coaching around him. A part of our team's failures in the past was the coaching, not the talent.

People keep saying "Look how bad we were without him," and, "2-14 proves we're not a contender." Not only is that false reasoning, that was also under Polian/Caldwell. The 2011 season proved they had no idea what to do. Most people agree that, with good coaching, Peyton could/should have more championships. Well, now he's getting an entire staff of defensive-minded guys, all going into camp together to implement something that teams won't be prepared for. They've been used to the same-old, same-old from the Colts for so long that now they'll have no idea what to expect. Reminds me a bit of the 49ers who, sorry, aren't more talented than we are.

Peyton's potentially coming into the best situation of his football life. If he's healthy, the rebuild won't take long. Houston pulled off a new scheme, the 49ers a new coaching staff, and the Panthers went from perpetually last to relevant because of a 1-year college star.

Besides, if Peyton goes to one of these other, so-called "contenders," and wins, that means Luck and your Colts aren't winning. You will be instantly whining about the decision to let Peyton walk if he wins Super Bowls somewhere else. I promise you that.

HUH? Ok Lets LOOK at BOTH Teams Objectively:

49ers: Starting D V Colts Starting D:

D lines: Colts have Freeney and Mathis while the 49ers have no one well known, so advantage COLTS.

Linebackers: The 49ers have Willis,Bowman and Smith (ALL 3 DRAFTED by them.) and probably the best LB core in the NFL. (yes better than the aging LB's in baltimore.) advantage 49ERS

Secondary: The Colts secondary is scary bad, almost as bad as NE, AND Green Bay. (maybe even worse.). While 49ers are not that great they are helped by a great pass rush and a front 7 that does not give up the run. ADVANTAGE 49ERS.

All said the D is CLEARLY advantage 49ers and even in the one area where the colts where better lets be honest your star players are on the back 9 while the 49ers starting 3 are merging and doing their job (no big stats but open it up for LB's like willis to get to the QB.)

Offense:

TBD: Lets be honest is Wayne,Garcon,Clark go be back? Is Saturday?

[JimJaime]

Any team he's on is a contender. Let's not kid ourselves. He'll have new pieces, new coaches (that actually do their job), and a weak division to conquer. I mean, we went 1-1 against the Texans without Peyton. I am not afraid of them at all, and they may lose Mario Williams.

A new season means everyone is a contender. I don't say that arbitrarily, either. Every year, there are teams that made the playoffs the previous season who don't get there; as well as teams that didn't make the playoffs who arrive. I think the 49ers will have a down year next season, as will Cam Newton. I also feel as though the Texans D will step back a pinch. Things don't just "keep getting better" because they were good before. It actually goes the opposite way most of the time. Even if a team keeps every single player, adds new (proven) free agents and a few good rookies, that doesn't mean they will suddenly be better. Peyton Manning has been about the most steady, consistently sure thing in NFL history. He puts up numbers, and he wins games. Now he will (presumably) have coaching around him. A part of our team's failures in the past was the coaching, not the talent.

People keep saying "Look how bad we were without him," and, "2-14 proves we're not a contender." Not only is that false reasoning, that was also under Polian/Caldwell. The 2011 season proved they had no idea what to do. Most people agree that, with good coaching, Peyton could/should have more championships. Well, now he's getting an entire staff of defensive-minded guys, all going into camp together to implement something that teams won't be prepared for. They've been used to the same-old, same-old from the Colts for so long that now they'll have no idea what to expect. Reminds me a bit of the 49ers who, sorry, aren't more talented than we are.

Peyton's potentially coming into the best situation of his football life. If he's healthy, the rebuild won't take long. Houston pulled off a new scheme, the 49ers a new coaching staff, and the Panthers went from perpetually last to relevant because of a 1-year college star.

Besides, if Peyton goes to one of these other, so-called "contenders," and wins, that means Luck and your Colts aren't winning. You will be instantly whining about the decision to let Peyton walk if he wins Super Bowls somewhere else. I promise you that.

Umm I respect your opinion, but your rosey glasses are on way to tight.

The 49ers D is better in every area than the Colts, except maybe D line (but thats more arguing roles in a 3-4 and 4-3 D so.)

The Colts O NO ONE has a clue be back (Wayne,Clark,Garcon,Saturday etc) Also add in the fact 49ers O line a lot better than the Colts O line and they Have a run game (Gore), as well as a great TE and an underperforming WR core (headed by Crabtree)

To say the Colts will pull a big turn around isnt crazy, Peyton obviously done it for 2 years, BUT with a team like the 49ers he wouldnt have to carry the full load and be perfect. He actually can have a bad game and the team still win. That would NOT be the case with the Colts. (IMO)

[Thewholefnshow28]

I think the REAL question is does Peyton want come back to a team in full blown rebuild, or go to a team who with him can win the SB. (Teams like SF,Jets, even the Phins)

This is my thinking. Why would Manning want to come back to a team that is in full blown rebuild mode. The defense will be converting to a 3-4 and I doubt we re-sign his best receving option. His heir apparent will be on the roster and Irsay will only want him to sign maybe a two year deal if that because they will not want to sit Luck for more then a season.

If he is healthy why in the world would he want to come back to that to finish out his career? He could easily take an incentive based contract with the 49ers and be much closer to the Super Bowl.

Irsay has signled with the firing of almost the entire coaching staff, bringing in 3-4 guys to convert the defense, and draft Luck that he is ready to move on and start rebuilding.

[BmoreColt]

HUH? Ok Lets LOOK at BOTH Teams Objectively:

49ers: Starting D V Colts Starting D:

D lines: Colts have Freeney and Mathis while the 49ers have no one well known, so advantage COLTS.

Linebackers: The 49ers have Willis,Bowman and Smith (ALL 3 DRAFTED by them.) and probably the best LB core in the NFL. (yes better than the aging LB's in baltimore.) advantage 49ERS

Secondary: The Colts secondary is scary bad, almost as bad as NE, AND Green Bay. (maybe even worse.). While 49ers are not that great they are helped by a great pass rush and a front 7 that does not give up the run. ADVANTAGE 49ERS.

All said the D is CLEARLY advantage 49ers and even in the one area where the colts where better lets be honest your star players are on the back 9 while the 49ers starting 3 are merging and doing their job (no big stats but open it up for LB's like willis to get to the QB.)

Offense:

TBD: Lets be honest is Wayne,Garcon,Clark go be back? Is Saturday?

The 49ers front three is leaps and bounds better than Indys front four. Do you not know who Justin Smith is? They ate the best run D in the NFL and add Aldon Smith off the edge, to make that a four man front, and they are so much better than Indys front four. Your funny.

[BlueShoe]

I mean...try and imagine the scenario that Peyton does come back and play. He plays a OK game but the Colts looses and the crowd screams for LUCK.... it would be an absolutely nightmare for Peyton and his legacy!

So I say, stay away Peyton...we love you, but your better off somewhere else!

I doubt anyone educated about football would scream for Luck over Peyton.

[rockywoj]

Are the Colts REALLY in full blown rebuild mode?

I mean, IF they re-sign Wayne and Garcon, with a "healthy" Peyton Manning, is the Colts offense better or worse than their 2009 Super Bowl almost undefeated team? Let's analyze ...

QB - Starter ... With a healthy Peyton Manning, almost equal, maybe just a little bit of Rust. If we can believe the reports, Manning has been dealing with the nerve damage thing for several years, including 2009. Hence, if the surgery really takes, he might actually be HEALTHIER than in the past. Physically, he certainly would be fresher. He'd just have some rust to work through and some schematic / coaching changes to familiarize himself with.

QB - Backup ... Let's assume that the Colts select Andrew Luck instead of trading the pick. Instantly, as a group. the Colts are much deeper at QB.

QB Conclusion - equal to or better than the 2009 Super Bowl participant Colts.

RB - Addai, Brown, Carter & Fullback. Scheme is huge and with a better offensive scheme oriented to a more effective running game, the Colts of 2012 have more talent / better evolved talent than in 2009. Health remains the issue. If Addai and Brown can remain healthy, if Delone Carter progresses and eliminates the fumbles, and if the scheme takes advantage of an effective fullback, the Colts at running back are much better than in 2012.

Receivers - Clark, assuming he is healthy, is maybe not the player he was three years ago, but he can still be very effective. Tamme, if re-signed, improves depth and versatility as compared to 2009, and with Brody Eldridge, again if healthy, the Colts have more depth and blocking ability at TE. 2012 Colts would be equal to or better at TE than their nearly great 2009 team.

In the slot, Collie has had a full year now to recover from his concussion woes and he is more experienced. This year should be Collie's best, better than his rookie season of 2009 and what looked to be his coming out party of 2010 before the injuries derailed him. Collie still has an upside of emerging as one of the game's best slot receivers.

Gonzo, a non entity now for years, likely won't be back. That being said, if one believes he is still talented, then why not bring him back to see if he can turn the corner? It's not like he commands anything salary-wise in free agency, so bring him in, see if he has the ability to actually win a roster spot and see if he looks to finally be healthy. Gonzo is a nothing to lose, lots to gain player at this point, who will come on the cheap. If during training camp he shows anything other than perfect good health, then you cut him loose. Low risk, high reward potential.

Reggie Wayne - if re-signed he still has game. He may not be the break away number one threat that he used to be, but he's still a top flight, route precision WR that needs to be accounted for.

Any decline in Reggie Wayne is compensated for by the continued development of Pierre Garcon. Garcon is a game changer who continues to improve. He still has concentration issues when it comes to making the easy catches, but really, what WR does not drop the easy ones occasionally. This past year I have seen almost every elite receive drop a few easy ones, that were often drive killers, so I think the flack Garcon has sometimes gotten for dropsies is a little bit excessive in relation to his upside that he brings to the table. Honestly, I think that Garcon is emerging over Wayne as the Colts new number 1 receiver, similarly to how Wayne was emerging over Harrison during Harrison's last three years with the Colts.

With Health, the receiving corps is equal to the Colts of 2009. Now consider, maybe a 2nd or 3rd round WR talent from this years apparently deep WR class might add a new dimension to the receiving corps. Regardless, with the resigning of Wayne, Garcon, and Tamme, the Colts of 2012 are certainly close to par with the 2009 Colts receiving group.

Offensive Line - They sucked in 2009, they sucked in 2010, and generally they also sucked in 2011. The thing is, they added two fantastic prospects in OTs Castonzo and Ijalana. There is no doubt whatsoever that Castonzo should be much improved in 2012 and the same can be said for Ijalana, though he is coming off of a bad injury. For Castonzo's improvement alone, the Colts should be better at OT than during the past three years. If Ijalana can deliver, the Colts will be MUCH better at OT.

At OG, with current personnel, they are certainly equal to 2009, maybe arguably better than 2009. Throw in the expectation that maybe, just maybe the Colts can go out there and get a top OG FA or OG draft prospect, then I see the interior of the OL as being equal to or better than in 2009.

At C - if Manning makes it back, then there is a good chance Saturday returns again, too. Saturday looked to be on the decline in 2009, some saying he was starting to look like the weak link. He was pretty good in 2010, but last year, he was actually better than he had been in years. If Saturday does not return, then C becomes a big question mark. His replacement may (Mike Pollak) or may not already be on the team.

All in all, I think the OL remains a weakness that needs to be upgraded, but by evolution alone (Castonzo and Ijalana) they may be better than any O-Line the Colts have had for the past three years. Hence, I would peg the Colts line as being equal to or better than in 2009.

Coaching / Philosophy - With the return of a healthy Peyton Manning, I think the coaching / philosophy of the offense will be equal to or better than during their 2009 Super Bowl run. With a more balanced approach, and with good health, with Peyton Manning there is no reason why the Colts offense of 2012 cannot be equal to or greater than the Colts offense of 2009.

Offensive Conclusion = With a healthy Peyton Manning, the Colts offense is not in full blown rebuild mode, but rather, will be on high flying, in need of only minor tweaking mode. The Colts offense, with health, should be top ten in the NFL!

As for Defense, there is a rebuild / philosophy change going on, but there are still some excellent key cogs. The Defensive Line, with Mathis re-signed, is as good or better than in 2009. I say better because by the addition of Drake Nevis alone, they are better. Moala is more experienced. Johnson is apparently still there, and the Colts "may" actually add another key cog this year, either through FA or the draft. If another key cog at DT can be added, with retaining who we currently have and continued development of Nevis, the DL may actually be appreciably better than anytime in the past three years.

At LB, there remains question marks, but personnel-wise, quite simply I believe the Colts are better than in 2009.

Secondary = Colts defensive weakness. Are they really any weaker than in 2009, though? Powers is a hear stud, when he can stay healthy, so on the Corner it's all about finding just one more guy. Their picks from the past two years might develop or maybe the Colts will improve via the draft or free agency. Improve they must, though.

At safety, with Bethea, the Colts are as good as ever at FS. SS remains a question. They really cannot be any worse, though, than during the past three years.

Ultimately, imho, the Colts defense is 3, maybe 4 players (DT, LB, SS, CB) away from being really formidable. More importantly, though, I think our defense in 2012 will be better than in 2009 simply by virtue of coaching / philosophical changes. With the new regime, the D is viewed as the area with the most upside, even though it is also, arguably, the area in greatest need of improvement. Generally, though, the defense has been the Achilles heel of the team (other than special teams), so I don't think things are any worse than in the past three years (assuming Mathis is re-signed) and in fact, I think things look to get better than during the past three years.

Hence, assuming a healthy Peyton Manning, to me, the Colts looks to be BETTER in 2012 than in their nearly undefeated, Super Bowl participating year of 2009. Thus, if Manning can be healthy, I think it is entirely realistic to have an expectation that the Colts can reclaim the division championship and actually contend for the Super Bowl during the 2012 season. Sure it won't be easy, but with one or two key additions on offense and 2 - 4 key additions on defense, the Colts can be WAY better than in 2009. Also keep in mind, by my count, in 2011 if special teams has showed up and been even mediocre and had Manning played, at the halfway point of 2011 I had the Colts pegged at being 5 - 3. After the 0 - 8 start, I quit keeping track for the second half of the season. Point being, it is such a thin line between losing and winning in the NFL and that as bad as thing turned out in 20122, things are not nearly as dire as the Colts record would lead most to believe.

So in closing, I say that, with a healthy Peyton Manning, the 2012 Colts look to be a better team than the 14-2 Super Bowl participating team of 2009. Hence, the return of Peyton Manning, with the retention of a few key free agents, along with only a few key player upgrades puts the Colts right back into the mix of realistically contending for a Super Bowl. Thus, it would not be a mistake for Manning to return to the Colts.

The Alternative, no Manning, and therefore probably also no Saturday and no Wayne. Maybe even no Clark and no Mathis. Without Manning, the Colts are much more likely to be in full on rebuild mode, as compared to if he can come back healthy. By reason, what is best for the Colts, regardless of whether or not they take Luck, is the return of a healthy Peyton Manning. Such will guarantee most immediate results and lead to a more painless transition to the Luck era.

That's my convoluted take. Cheers!

[oldunclemark]

I mean...try and imagine the scenario that Peyton does come back and play. He plays a OK game but the Colts looses and the crowd screams for LUCK.... it would be an absolutely nightmare for Peyton and his legacy!

So I say, stay away Peyton...we love you, but your better off somewhere else!

The Indy crowd is not going to scream for Luck..

Not everybody watches ESPN..

[oldunclemark]

Are the Colts REALLY in full blown rebuild mode?

I mean, IF they re-sign Wayne and Garcon, with a "healthy" Peyton Manning, is the Colts offense better or worse than their 2009 Super Bowl almost undefeated team? Let's analyze ...

QB - Starter ... With a healthy Peyton Manning, almost equal, maybe just a little bit of Rust. If we can believe the reports, Manning has been dealing with the nerve damage thing for several years, including 2009. Hence, if the surgery really takes, he might actually be HEALTHIER than in the past. Physically, he certainly would be fresher. He'd just have some rust to work through and some schematic / coaching changes to familiarize himself with.

QB - Backup ... Let's assume that the Colts select Andrew Luck instead of trading the pick. Instantly, as a group. the Colts are much deeper at QB.

QB Conclusion - equal to or better than the 2009 Super Bowl participant Colts.

RB - Addai, Brown, Carter & Fullback. Scheme is huge and with a better offensive scheme oriented to a more effective running game, the Colts of 2012 have more talent / better evolved talent than in 2009. Health remains the issue. If Addai and Brown can remain healthy, if Delone Carter progresses and eliminates the fumbles, and if the scheme takes advantage of an effective fullback, the Colts at running back are much better than in 2012.

Receivers - Clark, assuming he is healthy, is maybe not the player he was three years ago, but he can still be very effective. Tamme, if re-signed, improves depth and versatility as compared to 2009, and with Brody Eldridge, again if healthy, the Colts have more depth and blocking ability at TE. 2012 Colts would be equal to or better at TE than their nearly great 2009 team.

In the slot, Collie has had a full year now to recover from his concussion woes and he is more experienced. This year should be Collie's best, better than his rookie season of 2009 and what looked to be his coming out party of 2010 before the injuries derailed him. Collie still has an upside of emerging as one of the games best slot receivers.

Gonzo, a non entity now for years, likely won't be back. That being said, if one believes he is still talented, then why not bring him back to see if he can turn the corner? It's not like he commands anything salary-wise in free agency, so bring him in, see if he has the ability to actually win a roster spot and see if he looks to finally be healthy. Gonzo is a nothing to lose, lots to gain player at this point, who will come on the cheap.

Reggie Wayne - if resigned he still has game. He may not be he break away number one threat that he used to be, but he's still a top flight, route precision WR that needs to be accounted for.

Any decline in Reggie Wayne is compensated for by the continued development of Pierre Garcon. Garcon is a game changer who continues to improve. He still has concentration issues when it comes to making the easy catches, but really, what WR does not drop the easy ones occasionally. This past year I have seen almost every elite receive drop a few easy ones, that were often drive killers, so I think the flack Garcon has sometimes gotten for dropsies is a little bit excessive in relation to his upside that he brings to the table. Honestly, I think that Garcon is emerging over Wayne as the Colts new number 1 receiver, similarly to how Wayne was emerging over Harrison during Harrison's last three years with the Colts.

With Health, the receiving corps is equal to the Colts of 2009. Now consider, maybe a 2nd or 3rd round WR talent from this years apparently deep WR class might add a new dimension to the receiving corps. Regardless, with the resigning of Wayne, Garcon, and Tamme, the Colts of 2012 are certainly close to par with the 2009 Colts receiving group.

Offensive Line - They sucked in 2009, they sucked in 2010, and generally they also sucked in 2011. The thing is, they added two fantastic prospects in OTs Castonzo and Ijalana. There is no doubt whatsoever that Castonzo should be much improved in 2012 and the same can be said for Ijalana, though he is coming off of a bad injury. For Castonzo's improvement alone, the Colts should be better at OT than during the past three years. If Ijalana can deliver, the Colts will be MUCH better at OT.

At OG, with current personnel, they are certainly equal to 2009, maybe arguably better than 2009. Throw in the expectation that maybe, just maybe the Colts can go out there and get a top OG FA or OG draft prospect, then I see the interior of the OL as being equal to or better than in 2009.

At C - if Manning makes it back, then there is a good chance Saturday returns again, too. Saturday looked to be on the decline in 2009, some saying he was starting to look like the weak link. He was pretty good in 2010, but last year, he was actually better than he had been in years. If Saturday does not return, then C becomes a big question mark. His replacement may (Mike Pollak) or may not already be on the team.

All in all, I think the OL remains a weakness that needs to be upgraded, but by evolution alone (Castonzo and Ijalana) they may be better than any O-Line the Colts have had for the past three years. Hence, I would peg the Colts line as being equal to or better than in 2009.

Coaching / Philosophy - With the return of a healthy Peyton Manning, I think the coaching / philosophy of the offense will be equal to or better than during their 2009 Super Bowl run. With a more balanced approach, and with good health, with Peyton Manning there is no reason why the Colts offense of 2012 cannot be equal to or greater than the Colts offense of 2009.

Offensive Conclusion = With a healthy Peyton Manning, the Colts offense is not in full blown rebuild mode, but rather, will be on high flying, in need of only minor tweaking mode. The Colts offense, with health, should be top ten in the NFL!

As for Defense, there is a rebuild / philosophy change going on, but there are still some excellent key cogs. The Defensive Line, with Mathis re-signed, is as good or better than in 2009. I say better because by the addition of Drake Nevis alone, they are better. Moala is more experienced. Johnson is, apparently still there, and the Colts "may" actually add another key cog this year, either through FA or the draft. If another key cog at DT can be added, with retaining who we currently have and continued development of Nevis, the DL may actually be appreciably better than anytime in the past three years.

At LB, there remains question marks, but personnel-wise, quite simply I believe the Colts are better than in 2009.

Secondary = Colts defensive weakness. Are they really any weaker than in 2009, though? Powers is a stub, when he can stay healthy, so on the Corner it's all about finding a guy. Their picks from the past two years might develop or maybe the Colts will improve via the draft or free agency. Improve the must, though.

At safety, with Bethea, the Colts are as good as ever at FS. SS remains a question. They really cannot be any worse, though, than during the past three years.

Ultimately, imho, the Colts defense is 3, maybe 4 players (DT, LB, SS, CB) away from being really formidable. More importantly, though, I think our defense in 2012 will be better than in 2009 simply by virtue of coaching / philosophical changes. With the new regime, the D is viewed as the area with the most upside, even though it is also, arguably, the area in greatest need of improvement. Generally, though, the defense has been the Achilles heel of the team, so I don't think things are any worse than in the past three years (assuming Mathis is re-signed) and in fact, I think things look to get better than during the past three years.

Hence, assuming a healthy Peyton Manning, to me, the Colts looks to be BETTER in 2012 than in their nearly undefeated, Super Bowl participating year of 2009. Thus, if Manning can be healthy, I think it is entirely realistic to have an expectation that they Colts can reclaim the division championship and actually contend for the Super Bowl during the 2012 season. Sure it won't be easy, but with one or two key additions on offense and 2 - 4 key additions on defense, the Colts can be WAY better than in 2009. Also keep in mind, by my count, in 2011 is special teams has showed up and been even mediocre and had Manning played, at the halfway point of 2011 I had the Colts pegged at being 5 - 3. After the 0 - 8 start, I quit keeping track for the second half of the season. Point being, it is such a thin line between losing and winning in the NFL and that as bad as thing turned out in 20122, things are not nearly as dire as the Colts record would lead most to believe.

So in closing, I say that, with a healthy Peyton Manning, the 2012 Colts look to be a better team than the 14-2 Super Bowl participating team of 2009. Hence, the return of Peyton Manning, with the retention of a few key free agents, along with only a few key player upgrades puts the Colts right back into the mix of realistically contending for a Super Bowl. Thus, it would not be a mistake for Manning to return to the Colts.

The Alternative, no Manning, and therefore probably also no Saturday and no Wayne. Maybe even no Clark and no Mathis. Without Manning, the Colts are much more likely to be in full on rebuild mode, as compared to if he can come back healthy. By reason, what is best for the Colts, regardless of whether or not they take Luck, is the return of a healthy Peyton Manning. Such will guarantee most immediate results and lead to a more painless transition to the Luck era.

That's my convoluted take. Cheers!

Its not far fetched...Rocky...You are not wrong...

Of the players who started against NOLA in the Super Bowl..

13 are still here and were still starters on openeing day in 2011....NOT including Pat Angerer, Kavell Conner, Anthony Costanzo, Donald Brown and Austin Collie (who did not start) or Adam Vinateri who was injured...

We have the same posse....we just need to get 'the sheriff' back. :whatever: