Pats trade for Dwayne Allen [Merge]

[Superman]

Just now, theanarchist said:

Trent Richardson for a 1st was another great one

 

He made a bad trade, so that means his good trade doesn't count?

 

Teams trade picks for players all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You don't retrench and refuse to consider that kind of deal just because some of them don't work out well. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

When I read most of your posts, it seems like you like every player and don't want to trade anyone or get rid of anyone. You do realize the team is in the shape it's in because the overall team is devoid of talent, right? We need to cut off the loose weight and get what we can. Rebuild quickly. This trade will allow us to take another possible starter in a deep draft and we can now start Doyle and Swoope.

I not always a fan of create a hole to get better MAYBE. Maybe Ballard has the plan we don't know know. Allen was asked to block a Lot because our OL sucks & hes good at it. Picks are GREAT! Love them, but if you REALLY STUDY drafting history, the draft is LITTERED WITH HIGH PICKS that are know out of the league or still in the league and suck.There is NO GUARANTEE THAT OUR 4th ROUND PICK will be good. now we will hope it is and have to find an additional TE.

[Coltsman1788]

2 minutes ago, B~Town said:

colts got a 4 and 6 from NE at least that is what NFL.com says and gave a DA and a 6th to NE

Here is the excerpt from the NFL.com article...

 

"The Colts are set to trade tight end Dwayne Allen to New England, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported, via a source informed of the prospective deal. The Colts will receive a fourth-round pick in exchange for the tight end, while the Patriots get Allen and a sixth-round pick."

 

That doesn't sound like we got their 6th to me. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

He's not even going to draft anyone, he'll just trade away all his picks for future picks, every year.

 

???

 

We don't know what Ballard is. But I hope he's not the kind of guy who would refuse to give up a pick for a good player. Vontae for a 2nd was one of Grigson's best deals. 

Oh I agree, but it's a bad move the majority of the time to trade 1st and 2nd round picks for top players. It's like winning on a lottery ticket once, but if you keep doing it, the odds say you'll lose a lot of money. In this case, you waste a lot of picks. Vontae paid off, but there were 4 draft pick trades (I believe) that didn't, including the Billy Winn trade that cost us our 7th rounder this year.

[B~Town]

1 minute ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Here is the excerpt from the NFL.com article...

 

"The Colts are set to trade tight end Dwayne Allen to New England, NFL Network Insider Ian Rapoport reported, via a source informed of the prospective deal. The Colts will receive a fourth-round pick in exchange for the tight end, while the Patriots get Allen and a sixth-round pick."

 

That doesn't sound like we got their 6th to me. 

Watch the video on NFL.com the update on bottom claims colts got a 4 and 6

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

21 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Colts acquiring picks.  Some may be inclined to think it's to stockpile picks to address more needs but it could be added ammunition for a possible move up in the first round.  Maybe Ballard has his eye on someone and is positioning himself to be able to go up and get him.

Agree!!

[dgambill]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's not even going to draft anyone, he'll just trade away all his picks for future picks, every year.

 

???

 

We don't know what Ballard is. But I hope he's not the kind of guy who would refuse to give up a pick for a good player. Vontae for a 2nd was one of Grigson's best deals. 

Could you imagine in like 3 years we have like 6 first rd picks and like 9 seconds lol....of course Ballard would be out of a job and we would have like 40 year old dudes filling out the roster....but we would still win more games than the SIXERS and the Browns lol.

[theanarchist]

Just now, 21isSuperman said:

Depends on what he does with them.  It does you no good to trade away Allen for a 4th if you waste your 4th rounder on a bust. 

Well, its hard for a 4th rounder to be a bust. JMO. My definition of a bust only includes players drafted in the 1st or 2nd round but that just me. Anything beyond that I give some leeway. Getting almost 3mil in cap space and collecting a 4th round pick from NE is a great deal in my mind. Dwayne Allen was not what I considered to be a player that we had to have. He has a history of injury problems and his hands are suspect. I cursed him more times than I care to count over this past season.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

10 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah I would be happy with just back up veteran or an UDFA. I want both Doyle and Swoopes on the field. Don't need someone to necessarily step in unless we have injuries.

Swoppe is still an unknown and there are always injuries!

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Oh I agree, but it's a bad move the majority of the time to trade 1st and 2nd round picks for top players. It's like winning on a lottery ticket once, but if you keep doing it, the odds say you'll lose a lot of money. In this case, you waste a lot of picks. Vontae paid off, but there were 4 draft pick trades (I believe) that didn't, including the Billy Winn trade that cost us our 7th rounder this year.

 

I have no problem with the Billy Winn trade. Anything that costs a 7th isn't something I'm going to judge harshly.

 

I don't care to defend Grigson in this instance, I'm just saying we don't know what Ballard is or how he'll operate. He's made like four total transactions so far, this is the only one that really moves the needle, and we don't know how it's going to turn out yet. I don't think a good GM would back away from a deal that makes sense, no matter the nature of it. 

[NorthernBlue]

 

 

This off season has gotten off to a much more entertaining start than last years. Last year I'm pretty sure all we had was Grigson and Pagano are staying, Colts sign Patrick Robinson and then the draft .

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

6 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Depends on what he does with them.  It does you no good to trade away Allen for a 4th if you waste your 4th rounder on a bust. 

WORD

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I not always a fan of create a hole to get better MAYBE. Maybe Ballard has the plan we don't know know. Allen was asked to block a Lot because our OL sucks & hes good at it. Picks are GREAT! Love them, but if you REALLY STUDY drafting history, the draft is LITTERED WITH HIGH PICKS that are know out of the league or still in the league and suck.There is NO GUARANTEE THAT OUR 4th ROUND PICK will be good. now we will hope it is and have to find an additional TE.

All we need to do is sign a couple UDFA's at TE or sign a veteran in FA. We don't need superstars at every position on offense. We re-signed Doyle because he is better than Allen and we have Swoope rotting on the bench. Sign a Veteran TE and take a couple UDFA's, have them compete and see what happens. If you STUDY the draft, you'll see this is a really deep draft and that a 4th round pick can be made better use of than Dwayne Allen, who isn't that useful. Can draft an RB or CB in a very deep class for both. Good teams build through the draft. You won't hit on every pick, but in a draft such as this, middle round picks can be very useful for BPA purposes.

[throwing BBZ]

12 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

When I read most of your posts, it seems like you like every player and don't want to trade anyone or get rid of anyone. You do realize the team is in the shape it's in because the overall team is devoid of talent, right? We need to cut off the loose weight and get what we can. Rebuild quickly. This trade will allow us to take another possible starter in a deep draft and we can now start Doyle and Swoope.

 

 Swope as our blocking TE. LOL

[theanarchist]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He made a bad trade, so that means his good trade doesn't count?

 

Teams trade picks for players all the time. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. You don't retrench and refuse to consider that kind of deal just because some of them don't work out well. 

I was just being difficult. I know, the Davis trade was a good one. Most of Grigson's FA deals didn't pan out tho and he blew 3 first round picks and apparently he wasn't really easy to get along with. That's what led to his demise.

[CanuckColt]

So, basically we gave up Allen to move up 1-1/2 rounds in the draft...mid 6th to end of 4th.....hmmmmmm.

 

[dgambill]

2 minutes ago, theanarchist said:

I was just being difficult. I know, the Davis trade was a good one. Most of Grigson's FA deals didn't pan out tho and he blew 3 first round picks and apparently he wasn't really easy to get along with. That's what led to his demise.

No offense but Grigson's demise has been covered painfully for months...lets keep the focus on Ballard and what is going on for now just for the sake of not hijacking a thread. There will be plenty of time for comparrisons and recaps after the draft and FA.

[coltsfansince65]

Just now, CanuckColt said:

So, basically we gave up Allen to move up 1-1/2 rounds in the draft...mid 6th to end of 4th.....hmmmmmm.

 

Don't forget the $3mil savings in cap space.

[Coltsman1788]

10 minutes ago, B~Town said:

Watch the video

Not seeing the video.  Do you have a link for it?

 

Everything else I'm reading and watching online is saying Allen & a 6th to Pats for their 4th.  No mention of the Colts getting anything more than that back.

[Jules]

Doesn't bother me at all, he sucks. 

 

This don't mean he won't work out in NE but he didn't do well enough here.

[chrisfarley]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's not even going to draft anyone, he'll just trade away all his picks for future picks, every year.

 

???

 

We don't know what Ballard is. But I hope he's not the kind of guy who would refuse to give up a pick for a good player. Vontae for a 2nd was one of Grigson's best deals. 

no doubt Grigson was a gun-slinger with FA money and loose w/ draft picks, whereas Ballard is probably going to be conventional with draft picks.  Picture the two of them walking into a Vegas Casino, Ballard goes over to the Blackjack table (better odds), and the whale (Grigson) hits craps and baccarat.  

[Yoshinator]

Just now, chrisfarley said:

no doubt Grigson was a gun-slinger with FA money and loose w/ draft picks, whereas Ballard is probably going to be conventional with draft picks.  Picture the two of them walking into a Vegas Casino, Ballard goes over to the Blackjack table (better odds), and the whale (Grigson) hits craps and baccarat.  

Actually Blackjack, Craps and Baccarat are the 3 most profitable games at a casino. Slots, Keno and Roulette are sucker bet games.

[Jules]

2 hours ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

The word is we traded straight up for Hernandez.

 

That would be an upgrade for us sadly.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, chrisfarley said:

no doubt Grigson was a gun-slinger with FA money and loose w/ draft picks, whereas Ballard is probably going to be conventional with draft picks.  Picture the two of them walking into a Vegas Casino, Ballard goes over to the Blackjack table (better odds), and the whale (Grigson) hits craps and baccarat.  

 

My only problem with this is that we're knighting Ballard four transactions into his tenure as GM. We still don't know what table he'd go to. 

[throwing BBZ]

10 minutes ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

I not always a fan of create a hole to get better MAYBE. Maybe Ballard has the plan we don't know know. Allen was asked to block a Lot because our OL sucks & hes good at it. Picks are GREAT! Love them, but if you REALLY STUDY drafting history, the draft is LITTERED WITH HIGH PICKS that are know out of the league or still in the league and suck.There is NO GUARANTEE THAT OUR 4th ROUND PICK will be good. now we will hope it is and have to find an additional TE.

 

  It is the business to turn over about 15 players a year from last years roster.
If you are not good at that, you are doomed anyway.
 Allen was DRAFTED to block a lot. It was his THING coming out of college.
 We are rebuilding our roster for a run starting in 2-3 years and to be Championship competitive for many years to come. Allen wasn`t destined to be part of that.
 He will love having a QB that can get him the ball quickly and on target.

[DougDew]

6 minutes ago, CanuckColt said:

So, basically we gave up Allen to move up 1-1/2 rounds in the draft...mid 6th to end of 4th.....hmmmmmm.

 

Its better than cutting him.

[chrisfarley]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Actually Blackjack, Craps and Baccarat are the 3 most profitable games at a casino. Slots, Keno and Roulette are sucker bet games.

i believe all Casinos look at Baccarat results (casino profits) and thats how they determine if they had a good month.  odds favor a blackjack player, however, so I would still say that's Ballard's game.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

My only problem with this is that we're knighting Ballard four transactions into his tenure as GM. We still don't know what table he'd go to. 

Some people here were knighting him when he was hired for simply not being Grigson.

[NorthernBlue]

Regarding the trade itself, I don't love it, but I don't hate it either. 

 

I think Allen for a 4th is good. But this is a late fourth, and the Colts are losing their own 6th anyways. Yes, they save 3 mill, but is Allen (who I admit, struggled last year), really worth moving about about a round and a half up in the draft? I honestly don't know. Especially with the new GM in town.

 

However the part I do like is that the Colts now got 3, and count it, 6 picks in the first four rounds, in an already very deep draft (especially at Linebacker, Corner and Running back, arguably the biggest needs). This gives them more freedom to move up or down, and the luxury to take more high risk high reward players, (like Alex Anzalone for example) or whatever. 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

1 minute ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

  It is the business to turn over about 15 players a year from last years roster.
If you are not good at that, you are doomed anyway.
 Allen was DRAFTED to block a lot. It was his THING coming out of college.
 We are rebuilding our roster for a run starting in 2-3 years and to be Championship competitive for many years to come. Allen wasn`t destined to be part of that.
 He will love having a QB that can get him the ball quickly and on target.

And we will miss hes blocking and hopefully Luck wont be pummeled more than he already is!

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, chrisfarley said:

i believe all Casinos look at Baccarat results and thats how they determine if they had a good month

Actually, considering how most whales do play baccarat as their game of choice, it has more of an effect on the casinos earning than you may think, despite it's popularity.

[aaron11]

Just now, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

And we will miss hes blocking and hopefully Luck wont be pummeled more than he already is!

i wont miss it, his blocking got luck strip sacked in the biggest game of the year

[Coltsman1788]

I'm fine with trading Allen.

 

Strangely, Ballard also giving up our 6th round pick in the deal is whats irking me.

 

I like Ballard and believe he certainly knows what he is doing, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.  Still I'm just not understanding the logic of why the 6th round pick was included. 

[BOTT]

2 hours ago, Malakai432 said:

I think it's a great move for both teams.  Barring injury DA will be lights out for NE, most likely.  For the Colts frees up some millions and they get a pick.

And Coby Fleener was going to play lights out for the saints.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

My only problem with this is that we're knighting Ballard four transactions into his tenure as GM. We still don't know what table he'd go to. 

Yep way to early to tell...and we haven't seen a draft yet. It's so hard to say what he will do yet...been linked to a lot of players but maybe he is just gaging the market right now....still haven't signed anyone outside our own yet. Nothing to get excited about. Honestly so far he has just done what he said he would. Reward those within the organization that have earned it....and moved on from those that have not. If he brings back Turbin and maybe Butler then he has taken care of the in house cleaning (minus a Jones cut but he will likely wait til after the draft/FA to make sure he has replacement in house). We haven't done anything with other players except make calls so far....like you said...just cleaning house isn't enough to evaluate him in any way yet.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i wont miss it, his blocking got luck strip sacked in the biggest game of the year

Clooney could do that to our tackles!!!!

[chrisfarley]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

My only problem with this is that we're knighting Ballard four transactions into his tenure as GM. We still don't know what table he'd go to. 

true that!! , I think we are going to find out pretty quickly, like  after 4:00 p.m. on March 9th

[B~Town]

12 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Not seeing the video.  Do you have a link for it?

 

Everything else I'm reading and watching online is saying Allen & a 6th to Pats for their 4th.  No mention of the Colts getting anything more than that back.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000791541/article/colts-to-trade-dwayne-allen-sixthrounder-to-patriots

video is gone now never mind

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

3 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

I'm fine with trading Allen.

 

Strangely, Ballard also giving up our 6th round pick in the deal is whats irking me.

 

I like Ballard and believe he certainly knows what he is doing, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this.  Still I'm just not understanding the logic of why the 6th round pick was included. 

Agree much more palatable without the 6th thrown in!!

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, Horse Shoe Heaven said:

Clooney could do that to our tackles!!!!

Don't think George Clooney could do that to our tackles lol!