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Chuck Pagano complaints (merge)


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Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, ex-Navy SEALS have written a book "Extreme Ownership". "Babin said he can remember times from his SEAL's experience where he thought, "If I just had a better team, I would do better."

 

"Wrong," he said of this train of thought. "If I was a better leader, my team would have been better, and that's what leaders have to recognize and step up and make happen."

 

There is a lesson in there, somewhere.

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1 hour ago, CoachLite said:

 

Jocko Willink and Leif Babin, ex-Navy SEALS have written a book "Extreme Ownership". "Babin said he can remember times from his SEAL's experience where he thought, "If I just had a better team, I would do better."

 

"Wrong," he said of this train of thought. "If I was a better leader, my team would have been better, and that's what leaders have to recognize and step up and make happen."

 

There is a lesson in there, somewhere.

I think Pagano's leadership was perfect for us at the start of the rebuild in 2012.  We had gotten rid of a lot of the older guys from the old regime and had a lot of young guys coming in.  I think Pagano's leadership was good in showing those new guys how to go about their business in the NFL, how to be a professional, how to make good decisions, etc.  However, I don't think he's what we need to win a championship now that the foundation of this regime (at least on the offensive side of the ball) has been established.

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20 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

I think Pagano's leadership was perfect for us at the start of the rebuild in 2012.  We had gotten rid of a lot of the older guys from the old regime and had a lot of young guys coming in.  I think Pagano's leadership was good in showing those new guys how to go about their business in the NFL, how to be a professional, how to make good decisions, etc.  However, I don't think he's what we need to win a championship now that the foundation of this regime (at least on the offensive side of the ball) has been established.

I'm starting to think that you're right about this.

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1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

I think Pagano's leadership was perfect for us at the start of the rebuild in 2012.  We had gotten rid of a lot of the older guys from the old regime and had a lot of young guys coming in.  I think Pagano's leadership was good in showing those new guys how to go about their business in the NFL, how to be a professional, how to make good decisions, etc.  However, I don't think he's what we need to win a championship now that the foundation of this regime (at least on the offensive side of the ball) has been established.

Honestly could not have stated it any better. At the time of his hiring he was exactly the type of transition needed from the Dungy/Caldwell type we were accustomed to. 

 

But as time has gone on you can clearly see he isn't an upper tier coach.

 

Feels like he coaches enough to keep his job, he doesn't excel at it.

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22 hours ago, IinD said:

These type of stories will keep their seats warm and if it gets them to start winning out of fear of losing their jobs I'm good with it. If they wilt under the pressure the sooner they're shown the door. 

 

Either way technically it's a win win.

I concur

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On October 2, 2016 at 11:04 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Not a lot of screen or short passes?

 

14 of Luck's 27 competitions went to the running backs.      Luck got just over 200 yards passing today on 27 completions.   

 

What game are you watching?       We had mostly short pass all day long.

 

We threw deep roughly 3 times....  the TD to Dorsett,  a deep pass to Hilton and another I think to Bray.

 

That's it.

 

I think Chud has been pretty good overall.   But the lack of a quick rhythm passing game that we saw in the preseason is perplexing.  I know Chud is a vertical guy at heart, but he is putting a lot of stress on the Oline.

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52 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I think Chud has been pretty good overall.   But the lack of a quick rhythm passing game that we saw in the preseason is perplexing.  I know Chud is a vertical guy at heart, but he is putting a lot of stress on the Oline.

 

Perhaps I'm not following.....

 

We're trying to run more.....     we're not throwing as many deep passes as Chud's history would suggest he'd like.      We're throwing more to the backs and tight ends,   and we're throwing shorter stuff to the WR's.

 

So,  where the stress on the o-line?     

 

I think the stress is have 3 rookies next to each other at the same time that Costanzo is badly struggling.

 

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On September 18, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Malakai432 said:

 

They're  conducting a full investigation into the issue and it should be rectified within the next seven years.

Even I have to admit Pagano's inability to fix long standing issues on this roster is funny. Well played M-432. 

On September 18, 2016 at 7:13 PM, BOTT said:

Not with Chud calling the plays.  Believe it or not offensive coordinators make a big difference.

Weren't numerous fans crucifying Pep Hamilton for the exact same thing before Chud took over? So do all of INDY's OC's just suck or did this problem only rear it's ugly head since 2012? Just curious. 

On September 18, 2016 at 8:43 PM, crazycolt1 said:

A classic whine fest.

When I read this, I mis read it initially & said to myself: I don't know what kind of cheese goes perfect with red wine actually. You tell me. My fault; not yours CC1. Still mildly amusing as a skimming mistake though IMO. 

On September 25, 2016 at 8:49 PM, 21isSuperman said:

I wrote this in the game day thread.

 

I don't like how everything Colts is Luck.  It needs to be about the team.  Irsay is always talking about how Luck will lead us to wins and Luck will do this and that for the team.  The Colts' Facebook page is always showing photos and videos of Luck, saying Luck will lead us to a victory and Luck is ready for the game and all this.  It needs to be less about Luck and more about the team.  If I were another player on the team, I'd feel slighted.  The team will lead us to a victory, not one player.  Luck is useless without receivers and running backs and the OL, even if you think his surrounding talent is subparSo you have a culture that is hyper-focused on the QB, and that's a direct result of Irsay hyper-focusing on him.  It's a team game.  I understand you have an exceptionally talented QB, but it's a team game.

 

He also gave Grigson and Pagano extensions.  I understand giving Pagano an extension because there were reports that Pagano wasn't allowed to coach the way he wanted to because Grigson was meddling.  However, Grigson had one year left on his contract.  Why give him an extension?  Why not let him work out the final year of his contract and evaluate him after that based on everything he's done?

 

Irsay is a classy guy and I really appreciate all the charity work he/the Colts do.  I think his heart is in the right place and he's done a lot for Indy.  However, for the betterment of the franchise, I think it may be better for him to step aside from the football operations side of things.

Who gets paid the most in football? QBs, elite DBs, & left tackles usually. But virtue of the game today, money dictates exposure meaning every team has a core group of guys earning the most cash followed by fill in guys either off the practice squad, waver wire, or a trade. Jimmy's at least willing to open his wallet to bring talent in & an owner can do whatever the hades he wants. So, if you are the CEO of a Fortune 500 company with 2 bad quarters, are you stepping down too? No, I didn't think so either. 

On October 2, 2016 at 2:30 PM, 21isSuperman said:

You mean that horrible playcalling?

Refer to what I said earlier to BOTT. Are we gonna clamor for every new OC to get fired every 2 yrs or so now? Not a wise coaching strategy from my perspective 21. 

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

I think the stress is have 3 rookies next to each other at the same time that Costanzo is badly struggling.

Probably the best explanation for why INDY came up short vs the Jags on Sunday NCF. 

 

I have no real issues with what BOTT said either who always makes salient points. I just don't want fans believing that cleaning house is gonna solve all our problems because it won't. I just think Chud knows what he's doing & I don't want to pull the plug on him as OC too rapidly. Remember how the Raiders had such high sideline turnover of coaches & coordinators after their SB appearance in 2002? I don't want the Colts to replicate this disastrous NFL approach. I like franchises like the Steelers, Giants, & Ravens who don't panic when seasons get a little bumpy. 

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11 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

Probably the best explanation for why INDY came up short vs the Jags on Sunday NCF. 

 

I have no real issues with what BOTT said either who always makes salient points. I just don't want fans believing that cleaning house is gonna solve all our problems because it won't. I just think Chud knows what he's doing & I don't want to pull the plug on him as OC too rapidly. Remember how the Raiders had such high sideline turnover of coaches & coordinators after their SB appearance in 2002? I don't want the Colts to replicate this disastrous NFL approach. I like franchises like the Steelers, Giants, & Ravens who don't panic when seasons get a little bumpy. 

 

I don't think you have to worry about Chud....

 

If by chance,  if by the longest of long shots Irsay decides to fire Pagano in-season,  I think Chud will be given the interim HC title.     And he'll remain the OC.

 

People here who blame Chud are, frankly, not seeing the big picture.     They have no idea how much better the offense is now compared to any of the past few years.     They're frustrated with the losses and lashing out.

 

Fine.     I get it.

 

As for your last line,  liking franchises who don't panic!     YES!!!!!

 

Two words?      Heck YES!!!!!

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9 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I don't think you have to worry about Chud....

 

If by chance,  if by the longest of long shots Irsay decides to fire Pagano in-season,  I think Chud will be given the interim HC title.     And he'll remain the OC.

 

People here who blame Chud are, frankly, not seeing the big picture.     They have no idea how much better the offense is now compared to any of the past few years.     They're frustrated with the losses and lashing out.

 

Fine.     I get it.

 

As for your last line,  liking franchises who don't panic!     YES!!!!!

 

Two words?      Heck YES!!!!!

Thanks. I just find it odd how devoted fans go a little bananas & start calling for good coordinators to be fired. I want Donald Trump to be fired not Chud man. LOL! 

 

You're exactly right. Chud could jump right in & take over if Irsay made a change at the top. Jim Caldwell 2.0 Rob is not. Praise Jesus! Yeah, like I said earlier this week. Luck is learning to throw the ball away, slide more frequently, & realizing that punting can be a good thing especially with Pat's booming foot. 

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1 hour ago, southwest1 said:

Refer to what I said earlier to BOTT. Are we gonna clamor for every new OC to get fired every 2 yrs or so now? Not a wise coaching strategy from my perspective 21. 

If the OC doesn't know what he's doing and is holding the team back with his playcalling, why not?  It makes no sense to keep the same guy if he keeps making the same mistakes.

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12 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

If the OC doesn't know what he's doing and is holding the team back with his playcalling, why not?  It makes no sense to keep the same guy if he keeps making the same mistakes.

Every time an OC is changed the whole system changes. If you think it don't take time for all of to jel and add the rookies in, I question your football expertise.

 

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14 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

If the OC doesn't know what he's doing and is holding the team back with his playcalling, why not?  It makes no sense to keep the same guy if he keeps making the same mistakes.

 

There is nothing in Chudzinski's history that says he doesn't know what he's doing.     Quite the opposite.

 

And he's done a decent job with the Colts considering the circumstances we've had with our injuries.

 

I don't know what you're complaining about if your sincerely talking about replacing Chud already.....?

 

Are you?

 

 

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8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Perhaps I'm not following.....

 

We're trying to run more.....     we're not throwing as many deep passes as Chud's history would suggest he'd like.      We're throwing more to the backs and tight ends,   and we're throwing shorter stuff to the WR's.

 

So,  where the stress on the o-line?     

 

I think the stress is have 3 rookies next to each other at the same time that Costanzo is badly struggling.

 

Show me the quick, three step drop passing we saw in the preseason.  Not the 7 step drop, nobody is open downfield so I'll dump it off to the running back....

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10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Every time an OC is changed the whole system changes. If you think it don't take time for all of to jel and add the rookies in, I question your football expertise.

 

 

10 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There is nothing in Chudzinski's history that says he doesn't know what he's doing.     Quite the opposite.

 

And he's done a decent job with the Colts considering the circumstances we've had with our injuries.

 

I don't know what you're complaining about if your sincerely talking about replacing Chud already.....?

 

Are you?

I'm not saying the system is bad.  I'm saying the OC's playcalling is bad.  A refusal to run the ball in the 2nd half of the Chargers game was bad.  Not giving Joe Reitz and Castonzo TE and HB chips against Denver was bad.  And his refusal to use more no-huddle suggests he isn't seeing the whole picture. 

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33 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

I'm not saying the system is bad.  I'm saying the OC's playcalling is bad.  A refusal to run the ball in the 2nd half of the Chargers game was bad.  Not giving Joe Reitz and Castonzo TE and HB chips against Denver was bad.  And his refusal to use more no-huddle suggests he isn't seeing the whole picture. 

Maybe it is you who is not seeing the whole picture?

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6 hours ago, BOTT said:

Show me the quick, three step drop passing we saw in the preseason.  Not the 7 step drop, nobody is open downfield so I'll dump it off to the running back....

 

I didn't see the Denver game.....    so I can't comment on what we did there....

 

But in the other three games we aren't doing that many 7 step drop plays.    

 

That's been what I've been preaching this season so I'm looking for them each week....   I think we're only doing perhaps 4-6 a game.      

 

Now, I grant you, there are enough 5 step drops where Luck is looking and looking and looking and my stomach goes into knots.      I'm not sure there's a solution for that.....

 

Until the o-line is fixed,  I'm not sure either of us is going to be happy with what we're seeing.

 

I think we're a bit stuck between a rock and a hard place.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

I'm not saying the system is bad.  I'm saying the OC's playcalling is bad.  A refusal to run the ball in the 2nd half of the Chargers game was bad.  Not giving Joe Reitz and Castonzo TE and HB chips against Denver was bad.  And his refusal to use more no-huddle suggests he isn't seeing the whole picture. 

 

I can't comment on Denver ---- didn't see that game,   but I'm in favor of my TE and HB chips.

 

Chud addressed the not using more no huddle and it boils down to this....

 

The no huddle late in the game is working because the Colts are facing a much softer defense.    The defense is willing to give up yards to eat up clock.     That using a no huddle at the start of the game is more problematic because defenses will not be soft,  they'll be tight.       Plus,  he wants to develop the running game.     An offense is better with a running game.      And I'm sure you noticed that the last two weeks Gore has run for 56 and 70 yards in the first half alone.     That's exactly what we want.

 

I think 4 games with lots of injuries is too small a sample size to judge Chud harshly.     I was NOT happy with a number of his calls this past week,  including going shotgun on the last play of the game without Gore in the line-up on 4th and less than 1.  

 

But I'm very curious to see more.    I think we're capable of more and I'm hoping for better things to come as our injuries heal....

 

Just a different perspective....

 

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2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Maybe it is you who is not seeing the whole picture?

Could very well be.  I'm not gonna pretend to have the amount of experience and football knowledge the coaches have.  Nor do I have the same analytical resources available to me (eg. watching game film, taking notes, etc.).  However, I'm just going off the eyeball test.  Frank Gore had 70 yards in the first half against San Diego, but we refused to give him the ball in the 2nd half.  Joe Reitz was getting beat all game against Denver, but the coaches left him on an island to deal with arguably the best pass rusher in the game today.  Maybe they have their reasons for it, but what I'm seeing in games doesn't make sense to me.

 

59 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I can't comment on Denver ---- didn't see that game,   but I'm in favor of my TE and HB chips.

 

Chud addressed the not using more no huddle and it boils down to this....

 

The no huddle late in the game is working because the Colts are facing a much softer defense.    The defense is willing to give up yards to eat up clock.     That using a no huddle at the start of the game is more problematic because defenses will not be soft,  they'll be tight.       Plus,  he wants to develop the running game.     An offense is better with a running game.      And I'm sure you noticed that the last two weeks Gore has run for 56 and 70 yards in the first half alone.     That's exactly what we want.

But where are Gore's touches in the 2nd half of those games?  He could have gotten 100 yards in both games if he was given touches, but he wasn't.  Against the Jags, he was kept on the sidelines on a crucial 4th-and-1 near the end of the game.

 

I think 4 games with lots of injuries is too small a sample size to judge Chud harshly.     I was NOT happy with a number of his calls this past week,  including going shotgun on the last play of the game without Gore in the line-up on 4th and less than 1.  

 

But I'm very curious to see more.    I think we're capable of more and I'm hoping for better things to come as our injuries heal....

 

Just a different perspective....

 

Fair enough.  Chud's play calls could change drastically in the next few weeks.  I'm not calling for him to be fired (yet), but he certainly hasn't impressed me.

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1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Could very well be.  I'm not gonna pretend to have the amount of experience and football knowledge the coaches have.  Nor do I have the same analytical resources available to me (eg. watching game film, taking notes, etc.).  However, I'm just going off the eyeball test.  Frank Gore had 70 yards in the first half against San Diego, but we refused to give him the ball in the 2nd half.  Joe Reitz was getting beat all game against Denver, but the coaches left him on an island to deal with arguably the best pass rusher in the game today.  Maybe they have their reasons for it, but what I'm seeing in games doesn't make sense to me.

 

Fair enough.  Chud's play calls could change drastically in the next few weeks.  I'm not calling for him to be fired (yet), but he certainly hasn't impressed me.

 

Gore got touches in the 2nd half but they went no where.

 

One of those games he had 8 carries in the 2nd half.....   for 12 yards.      That's on the line.    At some point,  you  have to go elsewhere......       We're not giving up on the run when it's working.....     we're giving up on the run when it stops working.      And with our young OL,  that can happen.

 

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17 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

If the OC doesn't know what he's doing and is holding the team back with his playcalling, why not?  It makes no sense to keep the same guy if he keeps making the same mistakes.

So, just because INDY 1-3 right now, Chud has no idea what he's doing? That's what I took from your inference. If Pagano gets the boot, Chud will probably in all likelihood be named our new HC. You're gonna love that. LOL!

 

Under Pep Hamilton, fans had a legitimate reason to vent, but Chud? Come on now, that's crazy. You think you can do any better? Be my guest & write Jimmy a letter for consideration then. 

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6 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

 

I'm not saying the system is bad.  I'm saying the OC's playcalling is bad.  A refusal to run the ball in the 2nd half of the Chargers game was bad.  Not giving Joe Reitz and Castonzo TE and HB chips against Denver was bad.  And his refusal to use more no-huddle suggests he isn't seeing the whole picture. 

It's not like Castonzo and Reitz never got help vs Denver.  Hell, on the strip sack Harrison was supposed to slide over and help Reitz, not double team Wolf with Kelly.

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15 minutes ago, SupermanLuck12 said:

I don't understand how Pagano is comfortable with our ILB'ers. Jackson is old and showing his age and not one of the younger guys have shown me anything.

 

Letting Jerrell walk for Patrick Robinson was a huge mistake. Robinson hasn't shown me anything.

Not much change from the Toler days.

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22 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

This guy just doesn't get it on any level

 

Post-game speech: You won because of grit and determination and resolve and hard work and passion for the game.....

 

It's honestly just words at this point.  They don't mean anything if you regurgitate the same thing each time

 

I didn't watch the post game conference but if he dropped the "it's so hard to win," spiel I would've flipped out lol.

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7 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

I didn't watch the post game conference but if he dropped the "it's so hard to win," spiel I would've flipped out lol.

The Colts Facebook page put up a short video of him giving Gore the game ball.  The full video will probably be up on the Colts app soon.  But man, this guy just doesn't get it.

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I actually wanted to throw my tv when he did his clap and pat on the helmet of the guy who screwed up the potential touchback play I think it was.

 

I'm sorry, you gotta get mad once in a while, especially when your players play 'dumb' football.

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58 minutes ago, IinD said:

I actually wanted to throw my tv when he did his clap and pat on the helmet of the guy who screwed up the potential touchback play I think it was.

 

I'm sorry, you gotta get mad once in a while, especially when your players play 'dumb' football.

Do you really get that mad about football?

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http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Chuck_Pagano_Post_Game_Press_Conference_Bears/c1030598-b76b-452c-a7df-c87c062ae34c

Highlights:

-Coaching staff and players did a heck of a job

-Great win

-The no-huddle has been good to us and we wanted to use it

 

http://www.colts.com/videos/videos/Coach_Pagano_Victory_Speech_Bears/f677e87c-c685-46cc-b328-1ac8edb8bf53

Highlights:

-GRIT!

-We'll make the adjustments and clean up what we need to clean up

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The purpose of having a RB catch is for a safety valve. As a QBs 3rd or 4th option. The fact that Andrew threw 14 times to a RB only proves that our WRs either can't get open, or the routes are too long. 

 

It is hard to have an up tempo offense, when your offense doesn't run up to the line ready to go. The colts are so half heartedly ready for games. Even in the final minutes the 2 minute drill was run half heartedly. 

 

This is all on coaching, and no im not saying to change assistant coaches every two years, I'm saying get a new HC at the very least, who has been here for 5 years and isn't showing any signs of improvement ON HIS OWN GAME. His game just doesn't work anymore. Maybe it did in year 1-2 but not anymore. If that calls for a new OC so be it, but it doesn't have to. 

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2 hours ago, Indianapolis-Colts-Fan said:

The purpose of having a RB catch is for a safety valve. As a QBs 3rd or 4th option. The fact that Andrew threw 14 times to a RB only proves that our WRs either can't get open, or the routes are too long. 

 

It is hard to have an up tempo offense, when your offense doesn't run up to the line ready to go. The colts are so half heartedly ready for games. Even in the final minutes the 2 minute drill was run half heartedly. 

 

None of this is accurate.

 

1) Passes to RBs are not always safety valve passes. As a matter of fact, many plays are designed to go to the RB. 

 

2) If the defensive coverage leaves the flats open, the QB should go to the dump off. This is basic football principle. 

 

3) There's a difference between going no-huddle and going hurry up. 

 

4) To the bolded, are you talking about the last drive of the second quarter? They ran 11 plays in three and a half minutes, and they had all three timeouts plus the two minute warning. They kicked a FG from the 8 yard line on 4th down, with 11 seconds left. They didn't run out of time, they ran out of downs.

 

People are just making stuff up to bang on Pagano. Petty stuff, too. 

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5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

None of this is accurate.

 

1) Passes to RBs are not always safety valve passes. As a matter of fact, many plays are designed to go to the RB. 

 

2) If the defensive coverage leaves the flats open, the QB should go to the dump off. This is basic football principle. 

 

3) There's a difference between going no-huddle and going hurry up. 

 

4) To the bolded, are you talking about the last drive of the second quarter? They ran 11 plays in three and a half minutes, and they had all three timeouts plus the two minute warning. They kicked a FG from the 8 yard line on 4th down, with 11 seconds left. They didn't run out of time, they ran out of downs.

 

People are just making stuff up to bang on Pagano. Petty stuff, too. 

 

These are all eye tests and opinions. Even if you want to bring in facts they're going to be brought in with opinions. From what I could see, what I said is what's happening. But I'm not behind closed doors for the colts. 

 

I dont make % up to bang on pagano, I simply bang on him for a lot of things I don't like. A lot like people do to other people in this little thing we call life. 

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On 10/6/2016 at 0:39 PM, relkins said:

You know, you can be the best coach in the world but if you don't have the impact players or good players your not going to win no matter how you coach.

Players are human. They probably won't have the "impact" you want all the time. Good coaching takes that into consideration and plays are (should be) designed for less-than-perfect execution. The things that get me are from the confusion - the mental mistakes - like false starts and blown assignments, especially at critical times.

 

I believe in the statement "you play as you practice". It may be that the practices are actually perfecting mistake making. Pagano talks about "cleaning things up", but I wonder why things aren't getting cleaned up to an acceptable level?

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