I'm not saying I'm ready to fire Pagano...

[#12.]

For those saying Saban - Paul Finebaum in, maybe, April said Saban was absolutely interested in this job, and this is the only NFL job he was interested in, because of Luck and the winning history of the past few decades. 

 

One thing is certain - Saban would be even more expensive this year than last, with Irsay having to eat Grigson's and Chuck's contracts. 

[#12.]

BTW if they lose this weekend, this discussion gets real.  If they're 1-3 or 0-4 returning from London, good chance Chud is head coach upon landing. 

[Buck Showalter]

19 minutes ago, #12. said:

BTW if they lose this weekend, this discussion gets real.  If they're 1-3 or 0-4 returning from London, good chance Chud is head coach upon landing. 

That smells like pure speculation, & is the kind of rash decision a team like the Browns would make...

[BOTT]

35 minutes ago, #12. said:

For those saying Saban - Paul Finebaum in, maybe, April said Saban was absolutely interested in this job, and this is the only NFL job he was interested in, because of Luck and the winning history of the past few decades. 

 

One thing is certain - Saban would be even more expensive this year than last, with Irsay having to eat Grigson's and Chuck's contracts. 

I heard that too. Although I think Finebaum also said he would have been interested the Giants job.  Not sure any of it is true, but makes sense.

[BOTT]

11 minutes ago, Buck Showalter said:

That smells like pure speculation, & is the kind of rash decision a team like the Browns would make...

I don't think it would be rash considering this is year five and he was on the hot seat last season.  Not that I'm advocating a change during the season.

[#12.]

1 hour ago, Buck Showalter said:

That smells like pure speculation, & is the kind of rash decision a team like the Browns would make...

 

0-4 with a team that hoped to be a Super Bowl contender in year 5?  On what planet would that be rash? 

 

If Rex starts 0-4, he might not survive year 2 of a rebuild.

[#12.]

34 minutes ago, BOTT said:

I heard that too. Although I think Finebaum also said he would have been interested the Giants job.  Not sure any of it is true, but makes sense.

 

That's right.  I remember that now.  He did say the Giants as well. 

[Coltfreak]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

BTW if they lose this weekend, this discussion gets real.  If they're 1-3 or 0-4 returning from London, good chance Chud is head coach upon landing. 

If we continue with the slow starts then Chud can go too

[richard pallo]

I think we will be alright.  Detroit is a non conference loss which helps.  With all of our injuries I thought a 2-2 start could happen.  If we keep getting players back and Jones as well by week 5 I think this team will be ready to make some real noise.  I wasn't happy with the loss, that's for sure, but as we know it's a long season and the players play hard for Chuck.  No team is going to win them all. 

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, #12. said:

 

0-4 with a team that hoped to be a Super Bowl contender in year 5?  On what planet would that be rash? 

 

If Rex starts 0-4, he might not survive year 2 of a rebuild.

Well, the team was a significant contender by year 3 so, yeah...

And using the Bills as the example of how to run a contending franchise doesn't really support anything...

It also doesn't change the fact that saying  there is good chance Pagano gets fired if the team starts 0-4 is pure speculation...

I can speculate too & say that, that just doesnt feel like a move Irsay would make...

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

I don't think it would be rash considering this is year five and he was on the hot seat last season.  Not that I'm advocating a change during the season.

Rash may be a poor word choice, but firing Pagano at 0-4 or even mid-season seems like the knee jerk reaction that you see habitual bottom feeders continuously make...

 

[Gavin]

Firing Pagano today would be justifiable. That's obviously not realistic however. He will be around at least till the end of his new contract. At that time depending on who is available I don't see Irsay bringing him back because I don't see him making the improvements necessary. Grigson will probably be right along with him if he don't hit on probably 40 percent of his next 4 drafts. That's 12 of 28 picks. Also 40% of those will need to be starters at least given the vets that will need to be replaced if those players are not already on the roster. That's 5 starters. I haven't seen enough to say they are on the roster just that we have a couple guys that we are hopeful about who haven't taken a snap against the real competition yet

 

Cole

D'Qwell

Reitz

Mathis

Cromartie

 

[Gavin]

With all that said I had no real issue with the use of the time out Pagano made. I had more of an issue with Monachino dropping everyone back in coverage exposing the middle of the field for Riddick to gain a free 19 yards. It wasn't a blown coverage. It was just a play call that makes you wonder if he is really cut out to be the D Coordinator.

[Jason_]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

BTW if they lose this weekend, this discussion gets real.  If they're 1-3 or 0-4 returning from London, good chance Chud is head coach upon landing. 

 

No all around. 

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Firing Pagano today would be justifiable. 

 

How so?

[richard pallo]

4 hours ago, #12. said:

BTW if they lose this weekend, this discussion gets real.  If they're 1-3 or 0-4 returning from London, good chance Chud is head coach upon landing. 

I don't think so.  0-2 is not the end of the world.  One of the losses would be non conference.  14 games is plenty of time to get back into it.  A new contract as well and the players like him and play hard for him.  Just can't see it. 

[WoolMagnet]

If some people around here owned businesses, they'd be a workforce of ONE !

[crazycolt1]

40 minutes ago, WoolMagnet said:

If some people around here owned businesses, they'd be a workforce of ONE !

Funny you should make that comment since Indiana's unemployment is called Workforce One.

[Gavin]

I don't know why but I cant quote anyone.

 

Jason:

-He should be fired because prior to becoming the Colts HC he has so little experience coaching a variety of positions outside of Linebacker/Special Teams/Safety.

-He has had no prior experience coaching any offensive positions.

-He has never been a assistant coach.

-He only had 1 year as a D Coordinator on a Ravens defense that was loaded

-He has never even been a college HC

-His in game management skills are shaky regarding use of challenges and time outs

 

None of this is to say that you should have all the above requirements to be a HC. Some don't. John Harbaugh for example and he won a SB. But overall I'd like a coach with more experience.

 

Now at the same time Grigson has not provided Chuck with much to work with and Chuck has led a team that continues to win even when Luck was not under Center so he should get plenty of credit but he does lack in the game management department. I'm not advocating to fire him just to fire him. I'm certainly not advocating to fire him 1 game into the season or even this season. I do however think if a more experienced coach is available then you consider it if you feel he is an upgrade be it 1 year or at the end of Paganos contract

[Jason_]

3 minutes ago, Gavin said:

I don't know why but I cant quote anyone.

 

Jason:

-He should be fired because prior to becoming the Colts HC he has so little experience coaching a variety of positions outside of Linebacker/Special Teams/Safety.

-He has had no prior experience coaching any offensive positions.

-He has never been in an assistant coach.

-He only had 1 year as a D Coordinator on a Ravens defense that was loaded

-He has never even been a college HC

-His in game management skills are shaky regarding use of challenges and time outs

 

None of this is to say that you should have all the above requirements to be a HC. Some don't. John Harbaugh for example and he won a SB. But overall I'd like a coach with more experience.

 

Now at the same time Grigson has not provided Chuck with much to work with and Chuck has led a team that continues to win even when Luck was not under Center so he should get plenty of credit but he does lack in the game management department. I'm not advocating to fire him just to fire him. I'm certainly not advocating to fire him 1 game into the season or even this season. I do however think if a more experienced coach is available then you consider it if you feel he is an upgrade

 

Those are valid arguments for why he shouldn't have been hired in the first place, but not valid reasons to fire him right now. Imo

[Gavin]

Jason:

 

Oh no I'm not saying fire him now. I fully expect he will be here for the next 4 years. However if a coach comes available whos got experience beyond just D Coordinator/Secondary/Linebacker prior to that or after Chucks contract is up and he checks all the boxes then I think you make the call....and send Grigson on his way to if the O Line continues to flop among other things

[southwest1]

On September 15, 2016 at 11:58 PM, YourNextGM said:

If Saban wins another title,  I think he'll go.  Either retire or go pro.  

Why would Nick Saban leave Alabama when his Crimson Tide team has more or less dominated college ball since he was hired there? People seldom leave a university when rich boosters are extremely grateful & your standard of living is king. 

On September 16, 2016 at 1:22 PM, braveheartcolt said:

We win a close one, Luck gets all the praise. We lose a close one, it's Pagano's fault. 

 

Short, succinct, & beautifully stated BHC. 

7 hours ago, #12. said:

For those saying Saban - Paul Finebaum in, maybe, April said Saban was absolutely interested in this job, and this is the only NFL job he was interested in, because of Luck and the winning history of the past few decades. 

 

One thing is certain - Saban would be even more expensive this year than last, with Irsay having to eat Grigson's and Chuck's contracts. 

Look, I know Saban always coaches elite defenses in college from LSU to Alabama & yes, Nick would probably improve our defense significantly within 2-3 yrs, but he already tried the NFL & his tenure with the Dolphins was less than stellar. Okay sure, Pete Carrol failed at NE, turned USC into a powerhouse, & guided the Seahawks to a SB ring in 2013 so it is possible to learn from previous mistakes & excel later on down the road. That is true. However, some coaches are just better suited for college ball not the pros. Saban is 1 of these guys IMO. 

 

Besides, there's no way in hades that Jimmy is ripping up Pags & Grigs new contracts this darn quick with the ink barely dry on them. Never gonna happen for a couple yrs at least. 

[southwest1]

I know the person who started this thread wanted fans to speculate on who they would select to replace Pagano as HC. I dislike scenarios like that because you end up undermining the authority of the man currently in that position bordering on insubordination or extreme disrespect at the moment. Now, if you wanna alter that question slightly & ask me if our DC Ted Monachino fails to live up to expectations & a vacancy becomes available who would I make a serious run at? Lovie Smith. 

 

I just like Smith's defensive mind & I believe he got screwed over in Chicago & Tampa Bay. Yes, I know he's the HC at University of Illinois right now. Yeah, I know my preference for him is probably blurring my vision of him somewhat. I will own that. 

[Jeff Tolle]

Our defense consists of a group of guys from a town in France, called.......Fragile'

. Man they are brittle!!!

*

[esmort]

17 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

All this banter about Pagano is just that, banter. Pagano is not going to be fired anytime soon. Irsay is not going to start over with what went down this last off season.

Coaching changes and it seems to be a good draft along with the 5 year deals that Irsay cut with Pagano and Grigson nothing is changing with Pagano or Grigson.

Irsay is going to want to see what this team can do when healthy and that in itself is going to take time.

Irsay has never been known to make knee jerk reactions and do what the fans in the forum thinks he should do and he is not going to start now.

Pagano is here to stay for a while no matter how much anyone wants to whine and complain about him.

 

 

5 hours ago, Gavin said:

Firing Pagano today would be justifiable. That's obviously not realistic however. He will be around at least till the end of his new contract. At that time depending on who is available I don't see Irsay bringing him back because I don't see him making the improvements necessary. Grigson will probably be right along with him if he don't hit on probably 40 percent of his next 4 drafts. That's 12 of 28 picks. Also 40% of those will need to be starters at least given the vets that will need to be replaced if those players are not already on the roster. That's 5 starters. I haven't seen enough to say they are on the roster just that we have a couple guys that we are hopeful about who haven't taken a snap against the real competition yet

 

Cole

D'Qwell

Reitz

Mathis

Cromartie

 

 

I am not a fan of either, but I do not advocate firing them in the middle of the season unless something extreme happens.

 

Many posters feel the contracts they got give them 4 years of job security.  IMO if Pagano and/or Grigson do not perform up to Irsay's expectations or he thinks there is a significant upgrade available the contracts won't save their jobs.  I don't imagine Irsay relishes the thought of the money he would be losing if he fired one or both, but he is rich enough and I believe cares enough about the team he would take the hit on the contracts if he believed that's what was best for the Colts.

 

You also have to consider the cost of keeping them if they don't get things on track .... How much does a blown 1st round pick (or multiple 1st round picks) cost, how much does wasting a year or more of not only Luck's salary but of his prime years cost, etc .... 

 

If the Colts are picking in the top 10 in next years draft, I doubt their contracts save them. 

[#BringBobBack]

17 hours ago, BOTT said:

 

pathetic play calling didn't cause the slow start. The gameplan early in games has a massive effect on slow starts not sure what your point is.

 

[IinD]

3 hours ago, esmort said:

 

 

I am not a fan of either, but I do not advocate firing them in the middle of the season unless something extreme happens.

 

Many posters feel the contracts they got give them 4 years of job security.  IMO if Pagano and/or Grigson do not perform up to Irsay's expectations or he thinks there is a significant upgrade available the contracts won't save their jobs.  I don't imagine Irsay relishes the thought of the money he would be losing if he fired one or both, but he is rich enough and I believe cares enough about the team he would take the hit on the contracts if he believed that's what was best for the Colts.

 

You also have to consider the cost of keeping them if they don't get things on track .... How much does a blown 1st round pick (or multiple 1st round picks) cost, how much does wasting a year or more of not only Luck's salary but of his prime years cost, etc .... 

 

If the Colts are picking in the top 10 in next years draft, I doubt their contracts save them. 

100% correct. Without knowing Irsay personally of course he's always done what's right for the shoe. He had to cut Peyton freaking Mannning and he did because he knew it was what he thought was best for Indy and he was right on that call, Luck will be a stud for us for a long time.

 

He also got rid of a HOF GM when it honestly needed to be done (Chris Polian issues aside).

 

If we have an ugly type 6-10 or less season where we start slow all the time or have our few blow outs a year lately, they're toast IMHO. He'll eat those contracts real quick if he sees these guys falling apart. He's done much harder things as mentioned in the last paragraph.

[#12.]

6 hours ago, Gavin said:

Jason:

 

Oh no I'm not saying fire him now. I fully expect he will be here for the next 4 years.

 

Owning an NFL franchise is essentially a license to print money.  All one has to do to make a profit is hold out his hand and collect the TV contract money each year.  Additionally, Irsay was the beneficiary of one of the last, almost entirely, publicly funded stadiums you will ever see in this country,  Nationwide, such subsidies for millionaires have dried up, unlikely to ever return.  If Irsay were building the same stadium today, he would have to contribute 4-5 times as much money.  Bottom line - all Irsay has to do to become wealthy beyond his wildest dreams - a billionaire or multi-billionaire - is get out of the car and show up at his office on West 56th each day. 

 

With that in mind, if this team bottoms out in 2016, in year 5 of this process, I can't imagine a scenario where Chuck keeps his job.  Owners of professional sports franchises, like Irsay, eat player contracts larger than Chuck's every day of the week. 

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Owning an NFL franchise is essentially a license to print money.  All one has to do to make a profit is hold out his hand and collect the TV contract money each year.  Additionally, Irsay was the beneficiary of one of the last, almost entirely, publicly funded stadiums you will ever see in this country,  Nationwide, such subsidies for millionaires have dried up, unlikely to ever return.  If Irsay were building the same stadium today, he would have to contribute 4-5 times as much money.  Bottom line - all Irsay has to do to become wealthy beyond his wildest dreams - a billionaire or multi-billionaire - is get out of the car and show up at his office on West 56th each day. 

 

With that in mind, if this team bottoms out in 2016, in year 5 of this process, I can't imagine a scenario where Chuck keeps his job.  Owners of professional sports franchises, like Irsay, eat player contracts larger than Chuck's every day of the week. 

Irsay is not going to have a knee jerk reaction to what is said or thought by what is going on in this forum.

You say all Irsay has to do is sit back and become wealthy? He is already a billionaire so what is your point? He don't even have to show up at his office if he didn't want to, his daughters can handle things.

Jim just happens to be one of the more hands on owners by choice.

If this team does bottom this year I highly doubt he will fire Grigson or Pagano. I don't think money would be a reason one way or another.

All this talk of Pagano being fired is just banter at this point. IMO Irsay is not going to fire anyone anytime soon.

[Dark Superman]

Pagano is a nice guy who gets behind his players but he's not a coach that's going to bring you SB rings. The Colts need a change and it starts with Grigson and Pagano. We'll never host the Lombardi with these guys running the show.

 

I really wish Harbaugh came back to the NFL. He would be a perfect fit here in Indianapolis.

[esmort]

2 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Irsay is not going to have a knee jerk reaction to what is said or thought by what is going on in this forum.

You say all Irsay has to do is sit back and become wealthy? He is already a billionaire so what is your point? He don't even have to show up at his office if he didn't want to, his daughters can handle things.

Jim just happens to be one of the more hands on owners by choice.

If this team does bottom this year I highly doubt he will fire Grigson or Pagano. I don't think money would be a reason one way or another.

All this talk of Pagano being fired is just banter at this point. IMO Irsay is not going to fire anyone anytime soon.

 

I know this quote was not specifically to me, but I made a similar point. I am not saying he will fire them or even should at this point, after one game. My point (and what I believe was this posters point) is more addressing the the idea that some fans seem to hold that Pagano and/or Grigson are somehow protected or won't be fired because of their contracts.  They may not be fired in the near term, and they may even be here 4 years from now(although I would be surprised, and I think the odds are against it).

 

IMO ... If they are not fired it will be because Irsay felt they were doing at least an adequate job and/or their was no alternative he really liked significantly better; but it won't be because of their contracts or a hesitancy on Irsay's part to fire them because he will lose money. 

 

Edit: to say I do not believe firing them if the team bottoms out this year would be a "knee jerk reaction" ... If anything his handling of them (even if fired) will have been the complete opposite of a "knee jerk reaction" ... some might even argue the exact opposite is true: that it is long overdue.

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, esmort said:

 

I know this quote was not specifically to me, but I made a similar point. I am not saying he will fire them or even should at this point, after one game. My point (and what I believe was this posters point) is more addressing the the idea that some fans seem to hold that Pagano and/or Grigson are somehow protected or won't be fired because of their contracts.  They may not be fired in the near term, and they may even be here 4 years from now(although I would be surprised, and I think the odds are against it).

 

IMO ... If they are not fired it will be because Irsay felt they were doing at least an adequate job and/or their was no alternative he really liked significantly better; but it won't be because of their contracts or a hesitancy on Irsay's part to fire them because he will lose money. 

 

Edit: to say I do not believe firing them if the team bottoms out this year would be a "knee jerk reaction" ... If anything his handling of them (even if fired) will have been the complete opposite of a "knee jerk reaction" ... some might even argue the exact opposite is true: that it is long overdue.

Agree except the knee jerk reaction. I say that because none of us has seen what this team is capable of if injuries at key spots hadn't happened. IMO Pagano and Grigson will get the benefit of the doubt till those answers can be seen.

If we get our players back on the field and the results don't pan out for the better then things regarding Grigson and Pagano might be different. I think with all the coaching changes and what seems to be a good draft this last draft, Irsay will not make changes for at least a couple of years no matter how this season turns out. Irsay in the past hasn't been known to jump to changes quickly.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I think the key to when pagano gets canned is WHO will be available and IF he will be interested in the job. Of course if things get too out of hand he can appoint a interim from within, but I think if a elite coach becomes available end of this or next year it could happen.

I sure hope so anyway.

[Coltsman1788]

On 9/15/2016 at 9:53 PM, jvan1973 said:

How many wins did they end up with in those games?

 

Colts were a competitive team 2 years ago.  Lots of wins against weak divisional opponents helped to pad the win totals over the first few seasons.  Consistently, they have had slow starts to games in the first 3 seasons.  Changing the OC thus far has not resolved this issue.  The reality is the AFC South teams are getting better...our Colts are regressing...and wins are becoming fewer.  The past is prologue...what matters is where this team is currently and what direction is it headed.  Right now we are an average to mediocre football team talent wise under Griggson/Pagano's watch.  We are riding the coat tails of a banged up franchise QB trying to portray the illusion of a contender with smoke and mirrors. 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

 

Colts were a competitive team 2 years ago.  Lots of wins against weak divisional opponents helped to pad the win totals over the first few seasons.  Consistently, they have had slow starts to games in the first 3 seasons.  Changing the OC thus far has not resolved this issue.  The reality is the AFC South teams are getting better...our Colts are regressing...and wins are becoming fewer.  The past is prologue...what matters is where this team is currently and what direction is it headed.  Right now we are an average to mediocre football team talent wise under Griggson/Pagano's watch.  We are riding the coat tails of a banged up franchise QB trying to portray the illusion of a contender with smoke and mirrors. 

Nonsense

[Coltsman1788]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

Nonsense

Comical.

[BOTT]

22 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

 

Colts were a competitive team 2 years ago.  Lots of wins against weak divisional opponents helped to pad the win totals over the first few seasons.  Consistently, they have had slow starts to games in the first 3 seasons.  Changing the OC thus far has not resolved this issue.  The reality is the AFC South teams are getting better...our Colts are regressing...and wins are becoming fewer.  The past is prologue...what matters is where this team is currently and what direction is it headed.  Right now we are an average to mediocre football team talent wise under Griggson/Pagano's watch.  We are riding the coat tails of a banged up franchise QB trying to portray the illusion of a contender with smoke and mirrors. 

With Luck and Chud the Colts scored 17 first half points vs Denver last year. They started a bit slow against the Lions but it didn't have much to do with the play calling.  The constant blabber about the slow starts is eye rolling.  Fans just  might want to give it more than two games before judging.

 

I see your boy Pepper landed that big gig with Cleveland.  Thought for sure he would land a prime OC  job with resume /s

[Coltsman1788]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

With Luck and Chud the Colts scored 17 first half points vs Denver last year. They started a bit slow against the Lions but it didn't have much to do with the play calling.  The constant blabber about the slow starts is eye rolling.  Fans just  might want to give it more than two games before judging.

Well...Robocop there were also games last year under Chud after the Denver game where the slow starts also continued.  Granted Luck was out but its irrelevant because even with Luck the Colts just start out slow from the gate too often.  Blame who you will.  All I know is Pep is gone so if this continues...you guys will need to find a new whipping boy to try and explain it. 

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Well...Robocop there were also games last year under Chud after the Denver game where the slow starts also continued.  Granted Luck was out but its irrelevant because even with Luck the Colts just start out slow from the gate too often.  Blame who you will.  All I know is Pep is gone so if this continues...you guys will need to find a new whipping boy to try and explain it. 

 Yeah, might have been a factor.

 

Did you use to under another name?  Just curious

[Coltsman1788]

1 minute ago, BOTT said:

 Yeah, might have been a factor.

Could've but also don't ignore that the Colts have started slow many times with Luck at the helm.  Heck...it happened just last week.  lol  So this suggests to me that the slow starts are indicative of a larger problem not just who is starting at the quarterback position.