D' Joun Smith

[B~Town]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 10:13 AM, Coltfreak said:

Pagano DB Magic????

 

i don't get it.  Outside of Davis who was pretty good when he got here Pags has done nothing for the DBs.     Otherwise Toler would be good 

 

another example of someone reading something and it spreads like gospel 

 

 

Do you remember Davis before he was a colt ? I don't think so Davis was at the brink of being just another first round bust before he came to indy .

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1311895-miami-dolphins-won-the-vontae-davis-trade

 

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/12/18/vontae-davis-grows-up/20590981/

 

Hard to coach up a player who is always injured like Toler . Look at all the other DBs that came through Indy and played better than ever under Pagano .

[akcolt]

On 4/10/2016 at 6:19 PM, will426 said:

Butler and since Adams has come he's been to the pro owl and Davis so pretty much 3/5 of our starting dbs  have become better with him..there is no way possible to fix toler lol  and the ss position has been an open door so yeah other than that you can say he's worked his magic even though we haven't trained our own draft picks 

I think part of the problem is with all the talk about "you can never have enough DB's" the only one's to be drafted since Grigs and Pagano's arrival are  Geathers and Smith last year. Smith being the only CB. He has been trying to make chicken soup out of chicken *. 

 

Pagno will have an opportunity to work with the guys I'm guessing he wanted in Robinson Smith Geathers and an expected rookie S this year. As deep as the CB class is I would not rule out a CB at some point in the draft even with the holes in our roster. Russell if he slips. Let's not forget the addition of the 68th player taken in the 2014 draft Dezmond Southward. 

 

That will be the most talent we have had on the back end since Pag's has been here. Two former 1st rounders on the outside. Smith 3rd Geathers 4th Southward 3rd are young guys to work with. If he's the whisperer we should start to see it. 

[NewColtsFan]

On April 8, 2016 at 6:43 PM, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

At this point we can't claim anything great or bust .

 

Speaking of a bad year Pagano did'nt exactly shine either him & the rook both have something to prove Pagano has had 4 years to fix the defense as far as rough starts goes , IMO the rook gets a pass the coach has yet to prove his self & hes been here much longer , As the DB whisperer he needs to step up & prove Irsay made the right choice in resigning him , By putting a defense on the field that can actually defend consistently instead of offending  habitually ...

 

 

There are some who think Pagano may have had his best year last year -- yet you think he didn't shine and has something to prove.      All because of one play -- the fake punt.

 

The Colts finished last year 8-8 having lost Andrew Luck for 9 games and having to use our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th string QB's.    The Cowboys lost their starting Qb and went 4-12.  

 

Why do you think Irsay flipped and changed his mind to keep Pagano?     Because he heard from around the league if he didn't keep Pagano,  Chuck would've been unemployed about 15 minutes.     Someone would've hired him quick.     That made Irsay re-think his decision.    

 

You think Pagano had a bad year.     Others think Pagano had a very good year.     Interesting.....

 

[will426]

6 hours ago, akcolt said:

I think part of the problem is with all the talk about "you can never have enough DB's" the only one's to be drafted since Grigs and Pagano's arrival are  Geathers and Smith last year. Smith being the only CB. He has been trying to make chicken soup out of chicken sh!t. 

 

Pagno will have an opportunity to work with the guys I'm guessing he wanted in Robinson Smith Geathers and an expected rookie S this year. As deep as the CB class is I would not rule out a CB at some point in the draft even with the holes in our roster. Russell if he slips. Let's not forget the addition of the 68th player taken in the 2014 draft Dezmond Southward. 

 

That will be the most talent we have had on the back end since Pag's has been here. Two former 1st rounders on the outside. Smith 3rd Geathers 4th Southward 3rd are young guys to work with. If he's the whisperer we should start to see it. 

I agree he's shown he can teach other people's players but I'll hold out on giving him too much credit till I see how our own drafted players have grown lol

[JPFolks]

5 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are some who think Pagano may have had his best year last year -- yet you think he didn't shine and has something to prove.      All because of one play -- the fake punt.

 

The Colts finished last year 8-8 having lost Andrew Luck for 9 games and having to use our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th string QB's.    The Cowboys lost their starting Qb and went 4-12.  

 

Why do you think Irsay flipped and changed his mind to keep Pagano?     Because he heard from around the league if he didn't keep Pagano,  Chuck would've been unemployed about 15 minutes.     Someone would've hired him quick.     That made Irsay re-think his decision.    

 

You think Pagano had a bad year.     Others think Pagano had a very good year.     Interesting.....

 

I agree...winning that last game and avoiding a losing record with all the injuries was what saved Pagano.. that and the reality there were not better more proven options to hire, so really it was neither surprising nor a stretch.  Pagano would have been the #1 option to hire had he been fired by other teams.  His record and experience was by far the most impressive of any available coach.  He hasn't had much to work with on the defensive side since he's been here and though the numbers haven't looked good, the results of the games mostly have. With a little more quality help on the o-line and defense overall I think Pagano will pick right back up with winning and post season success.  Imagine if he had a few of those rock stars on Denver's defense? And the Colts STILL beat them and won 3 out of 4 the past 4 years.  And they beat the Super Bowl champs twice and lost in the playoffs twice to the eventual champs who beat everyone else as well... That's a darn good record.  We're lucky to still have him.  

 

Grigson... meh... 

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are some who think Pagano may have had his best year last year -- yet you think he didn't shine and has something to prove.      All because of one play -- the fake punt.

 

The Colts finished last year 8-8 having lost Andrew Luck for 9 games and having to use our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th string QB's.    The Cowboys lost their starting Qb and went 4-12.  

 

Why do you think Irsay flipped and changed his mind to keep Pagano?     Because he heard from around the league if he didn't keep Pagano,  Chuck would've been unemployed about 15 minutes.     Someone would've hired him quick.     That made Irsay re-think his decision.    

 

You think Pagano had a bad year.     Others think Pagano had a very good year.     Interesting.....

 

 

First off I never mentioned the fake punt or any one play . 

 

So get off your soap box & read my posts before you try to put words in my mouth .

 

Pagano was brought in to fix the defense several years ago a Monster Defense well I'm not impressed with his ability to do so at this point .

 

As far as what I said it was simple The rookie was'nt that impressive nor was the DEFENSIVE MINDED coach Irsay hired from Baltimore like DUNGY these defensive coachs were brought in to fix the defense neither IMO have lived up to the billing .

 

So Irsay gave Pagano another contract so what until his defense plays consistenly & can stop the run consistently & get to the QB consistently I will say CONSISTENLY he has proved nothing .

 

You & others may be impressed I'm not the Colts did good without him & have done no better with him so he needs to prove he can coach up the defense so that once & for all The Indianapolis Colts Organization can get what we have been promised a defense that can be a equal partner to the offense ,

 

Peyton Manning's career as a Colts would have been far more productive than 1 SB Win had the Defense under Dungy been what it was supposed to be instead of winning a SB with the leagues worst regular season defense , I doubt very serious that it will happen again in  . 

 

In the Luck era 3- 11-5 seasons offense is in good shape , Whether its 18 in there or 12 they need the defense to pick it up .

 

As a Colt management failed Peyton Manning but Denver did not obviously they got it & we here in Indianapolis did not the last SB speaks load & clear .

 

Interesting is not the word that comes to mind as I read your post on the contrary less than interesting would be .

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

3 hours ago, will426 said:

I agree he's shown he can teach other people's players but I'll hold out on giving him too much credit till I see how our own drafted players have grown lol

 

Great post he'll get the credit when he deserves it..

[chad72]

12 minutes ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

First off I never mentioned the fake punt or any one play . 

 

So get off your soap box & read my posts before you try to put words in my mouth .

 

Pagano was brought in to fix the defense several years ago a Monster Defense well I'm not impressed with his ability to do so at this point .

 

As far as what I said it was simple The rookie was'nt that impressive nor was the DEFENSIVE MINDED coach Irsay hired from Baltimore like DUNGY these defensive coachs were brought in to fix the defense neither IMO have lived up to the billing .

 

So Irsay gave Pagano another contract so what until his defense plays consistenly & can stop the run consistently & get to the QB consistently I will say CONSISTENLY he has proved nothing .

 

You & others may be impressed I'm not the Colts did good without him & have done no better with him so he needs to prove he can coach up the defense so that once & for all The Indianapolis Colts Organization can get what we have been promised a defense that can be a equal partner to the offense ,

 

Peyton Manning's career as a Colts would have been far more productive than 1 SB Win had the Defense under Dungy been what it was supposed to be instead of winning a SB with the leagues worst regular season defense , I doubt very serious that it will happen again in  . 

 

In the Luck era 3- 11-5 seasons offense is in good shape , Whether its 18 in there or 12 they need the defense to pick it up .

 

As a Colt management failed Peyton Manning but Denver did not obviously they got it & we here in Indianapolis did not the last SB speaks load & clear .

 

Interesting is not the word that comes to mind as I read your post on the contrary less than interesting would be .

 

I agree.

 

When you pay top dollar to your QB, just worry about the OL, the skill positions will take care of themselves if the QB and OL get going. Against the best, when we came up against aggressive 3-4 Ds during the Peyton era, there were plenty of OL and QB mistakes in the playoffs against elite teams. The smokescreen of the regular season, when dissected and analyzed, will tell you the Colts' record vs elite teams in the regular season was still around .600

 

By building a D that can help mitigate your QB mistakes and keep games close, you give the QB a little more room for error and you can afford to punt two thirds of your possessions without turnovers and still end up winning playoff games in a game of field position. Yes, every once in a while, you will have an ungodly Joe Flacco like offensive run in the playoffs but those are far and few between.

 

As far as D'Joun Smith, I feel his ceiling is at best to replace Butler in the slot, I am not certain he will be an outside CB in the NFL for an extended period of time. 

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, ÅÐØNϧ 1 said:

 

First off I never mentioned the fake punt or any one play . 

 

So get off your soap box & read my posts before you try to put words in my mouth .

 

Pagano was brought in to fix the defense several years ago a Monster Defense well I'm not impressed with his ability to do so at this point .

 

As far as what I said it was simple The rookie was'nt that impressive nor was the DEFENSIVE MINDED coach Irsay hired from Baltimore like DUNGY these defensive coachs were brought in to fix the defense neither IMO have lived up to the billing .

 

So Irsay gave Pagano another contract so what until his defense plays consistenly & can stop the run consistently & get to the QB consistently I will say CONSISTENLY he has proved nothing .

 

You & others may be impressed I'm not the Colts did good without him & have done no better with him so he needs to prove he can coach up the defense so that once & for all The Indianapolis Colts Organization can get what we have been promised a defense that can be a equal partner to the offense ,

 

Peyton Manning's career as a Colts would have been far more productive than 1 SB Win had the Defense under Dungy been what it was supposed to be instead of winning a SB with the leagues worst regular season defense , I doubt very serious that it will happen again in  . 

 

In the Luck era 3- 11-5 seasons offense is in good shape , Whether its 18 in there or 12 they need the defense to pick it up .

 

As a Colt management failed Peyton Manning but Denver did not obviously they got it & we here in Indianapolis did not the last SB speaks load & clear .

 

Interesting is not the word that comes to mind as I read your post on the contrary less than interesting would be .

 

You're still not noticing what is right in front of you.

 

You don't like Pagano because our defense isn't good.      Please tell me,  who is on the defense that is supposed to be so great?      Who?      Pagano and Manusky simply didn't have much talent to work with.

 

That's why we devoted last year's draft to defense,    and that's why -- at least publicly -- Irsay and Grigson say they want ANOTHER defensive oriented draft this year.       In short,   we don't have much talent on that side of the ball.      Combine last year's poor defense with a terrible offense and things snowball and get out of hand.     That leads to a terrible year of defense last year.     It's not all that hard to figure out.     It's right there on the field in front of you.      Bad defense + bad offense = terrible defense.

 

As for the fake punt -- I know you didn't mention it.     I did because I was trying to give you a break.    I couldn't figure out why you were bad mouthing Pagano.    The fake punt has stuck out in everyone's mind.  Figured it might have for you too.    Sorry I was wrong.     But you came up with another reason.    Which wasn't hard to explain.

 

I want to be clear -- I'm not saying Pagano is a great coach.    He's not.    But I think he's a good to very good coach depending on his circumstances.    And last year was a Poop Storm and everything went sideways.

 

I'm willing to cut the guy a little slack and see how we might be better this year.     I hope you are too.

 

[crazycolt1]

13 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

There are some who think Pagano may have had his best year last year -- yet you think he didn't shine and has something to prove.      All because of one play -- the fake punt.

 

The Colts finished last year 8-8 having lost Andrew Luck for 9 games and having to use our 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th string QB's.    The Cowboys lost their starting Qb and went 4-12.  

 

Why do you think Irsay flipped and changed his mind to keep Pagano?     Because he heard from around the league if he didn't keep Pagano,  Chuck would've been unemployed about 15 minutes.     Someone would've hired him quick.     That made Irsay re-think his decision.    

 

You think Pagano had a bad year.     Others think Pagano had a very good year.     Interesting.....

 

No one can accuse Chuck of not fighting for his job. Going 8-8 showed that the players wanted Chuck to stay and they played their best for him even when things wasn't looking good at all. Let's hope Chuck has more input in who Grigson drafts this season. We all have to keep in mind that even though Grigson has had some problems it was not from lack of trying. I don't think his hit or miss percentage is as bad as some believe they are. I think the most telling thing is the lack of depth. The talent level between the starters and the next tier guys was huge and showed when any injuries happened. Hopefully with the new coaching staff that can be addressed no matter who is brought in. The problems the Colts face and have faced is what most teams deal with every season. Good offensive linemen are hard to find and great ones are either kept or are so over priced it's almost impossible to sign them. I do agree that Chuck would have found work real quick but his statement was he didn't want another job somewhere else. I think he truly meant that in my opinion.

[dgambill]

On ‎4‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 8:35 AM, OHColtfan said:

I wouldn't allow the presence of Smith on the roster to keep us from drafting a CB this year. I know he was a 3 last year, but that was last year. He is either going to compete & show he can contribute or he will fall down the depth chart or off the roster. League moves ahead really fast these days. Right now he is just a number on the roster with potential, and has no more production in the NFL than a guy coming out of college with a great skill set this year.

Besides, you can never have enough good CB's

Precisely! Neither adding Robinson nor Smith will keep us from taking a Corner in the draft if we have a high enough grade on one in the draft sitting there when we are on the clock. We could definitely upgrade all of our secondary spots outside Davis and look long-term here. Certainly we may hope those guys we got work out but corner is a position that you can't underestimate how important it is. When your going to be playing against wr cores like Jacksonville twice and facing teams probably like Cincy, Pittsburgh, and New England in the playoffs you better have some good corners or they will torch you. Our secondary certainly can't be assumed to be so good that we would pass on a guy because of what we have right now. Robinson only played in sub-packages last year, Butler is a slot corner that has been up and down and the rest are way too green to know what they can do. If we have great value on the board...take them...no matter what the position (other than qb/wr) because every other position could be upgraded or strengthened for certain. This isn't a team full of super stars...we got a few (emphasis on few)...we can't afford to pass on a guy just because we *think we have adequate players...that's just not going to cut it...we want to be great we need some great players and I'm far from confident that these great players are already on our roster...so the draft is where we need to get them.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

On 4/11/2016 at 1:55 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

You're still not noticing what is right in front of you.   The Computer as was last time I responded , On a serious note .

 

You don't like Pagano because our defense isn't good.    First I like Pagano I'm just not impressed with each season he has coached the Colts he has reminded me of Tony Dungy whom I liked as well the problem for me is a decade old & then some my patience is razor thin for these " wink wink " Defensive minded coach who have consistently failed in the regular season not mentioning  the playoffs " I'm now having a Jim Mora flashback PLAYOFFS "  Sorry point is our only Superbowl win was with the leagues worst defense , It still boggles the mind that the defense that was ranked 32 could reach let alone win the big one . So were the players finally good or did the coaches finally do there job ?

 

Flash forward we now have 12 & after 4 years its like deja vu & my patience is being tested . I'm a bricklayer a simple man I don't pick out the brick I'm laying at I.U.P.U.I or at Purdue I just do my best with what I'm givin , Thats what bricklayers do & I expect the same outta Chuck Pagano coach'em up prove your the right man for the job . The defense did look good at times just not all year . I want the results Irsay promised when he brought in Dungy & Pagano , I don't want to lose another great QB to denver or anyone else to watch them succeed I want Andrew Luck to be successful as a COLT & the promises the Colts have promised the fans to finally be realized . Peyton Manning had 2 Superbowl appearances with a very good defense & the Colts front office look incompetent because of it IMO ..  

 

I'm willing to cut the guy a little slack and see how we might be better this year.     I hope you are too.

I bleed the blue Chuckles will not be receiving any hate mail from me , I hope he can build this monster we have heard so much of over the years.

I wish him nothing but the best with the new coaches coming in & Chud taking over the Offense, I will once again be chomping at the bit waiting for my COLTS to take the field hoping this will be the year the break out year when we as fans can finally see on the field a DEFENSE that is equal to our OFFENSE .

 

 

 

 

[ColtStronger]

It's a sigh of relief that we picked up Robinson, however I don't think he is going to be as good as we hoped in the #2 spot.  Either way it's an upgrade over Toler.  Robinson is mostly a slot guy which confuses me because don't we still have Butler (eventhough he isn't that good on the outside)?  I guess we got him because he was a solid corner with some starting experience, a familiar coach, and one of the last few affordable options...

 

Smith didn't look very good in TC and Pre season, but that doesn't surprise me as often young CB's tend to struggle.  With the injury it was a further setback.  I believe by year 3 he will definitely be able to contend for the starting job with Robinson.  At that point Butler is probably the odd man out.  No need for 2 good slot corners, especially if they're trying to develop Mitchell as well.

 

With the same position coach as Robinson had last year coming over from SD (Williams) and Chuck focusing more on the defense (including his so called specialty DB's), this position group should start picking up some slack.  Hopefully Mitchell and Smith get developed as well.

[krunk]

I think Butler is going to get his walking papers this year. Especially if we draft another corner.

[CR91]

No idea how this turned into a thread about pagano, but in any case my opinion of Smith(for if anyone cares) is incomplete. Unlike guys like geathers Anderson and Parry, Smith didn't get any playing time and unless an injury happens he won't get any this year either other then special teams. If the colts plan to move on with Butler next year with Smith then that's when we really see what we have with smith

[GoColts8818]

On April 8, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Coltfreak said:

Pagano DB Magic????

 

i don't get it.  Outside of Davis who was pretty good when he got here Pags has done nothing for the DBs.     Otherwise Toler would be good 

 

another example of someone reading something and it spreads like gospel 

 

 

Outside of Toler and Landry what DB has been bad here?  He's done it with cast offs from other teams for the most part too.

 

Butler's career was pretty much over before the Colts signed him and he's been a solid nickel corner.

 

Mike Adams has made back-to-back to pro-bowls and has lead the NFL in INTs since he was signed.  Teams were so uninterested in him that the Colts got him before camp.

 

Lowery has a pretty good season in his only year here.

 

Geathers looks to be a very promising rookie from last year.

 

All and all the secondary has been the strong point of defense since Pagano was hired.

[Coltfreak]

16 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Outside of Toler and Landry what DB has been bad here?  He's done it with cast offs from other teams for the most part too.

 

Butler's career was pretty much over before the Colts signed him and he's been a solid nickel corner.

 

Mike Adams has made back-to-back to pro-bowls and has lead the NFL in INTs since he was signed.  Teams were so uninterested in him that the Colts got him before camp.

 

Lowery has a pretty good season in his only year here.

 

Geathers looks to be a very promising rookie from last year.

 

All and all the secondary has been the strong point of defense since Pagano was hired.

The secondary is not good. 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=IND

 

Toler has talent and should have been much better

 

just the stupidity of how the secondary is used should tell you that Pags is not the defensive genius he got titled after working with a veteran Baltimore D that didn't really need a DC and that is coming from Ray Lewis himself 

 

Butler had one good season and gets worse every time I watch him. Wouldn't be surprised to see us take a cb2 in the draft and Smith move to nickle.  Definitely need to upgrade 2 cb spots from last year 

 

As far a pro bowl for Adams. Yes he is one bright spot. But don't crown him a great player yet. He is ranked 7th in pass interceptions 

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-intercepted-and-defensed-leaders/2015/

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/interceptions/year/2015/seasontype/2

 

pass defended he doesn't even make the list

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-pass-defenses

 

 

Dont get get me wrong I like Adams. But there a lot of room for improvement  he's just a sparkle on a turd so he looks shinier than he really is 

[SteelCityColt]

I think we had a run of bad luck with injuries on pretty much all our draft picks last year. Dorsett got hurt at a time they were (slowly) phasing him in more and more, Smith never really had a chance to get going and Anderson was pretty much our stand out player on D when he went down. You shouldn't be writing off players after their first year let alone a year interrupted by injury. 

 

As ColtsBlue said, he's almost a rookie again this year, give him a full T/C injury free and we can then start the process of seeing if he can cut the mustard. 

[SP_21]

1 hour ago, Coltfreak said:

The secondary is not good. 

http://www.nfl.com/teams/profile?team=IND

 

Toler has talent and should have been much better

 

just the stupidity of how the secondary is used should tell you that Pags is not the defensive genius he got titled after working with a veteran Baltimore D that didn't really need a DC and that is coming from Ray Lewis himself 

 

Butler had one good season and gets worse every time I watch him. Wouldn't be surprised to see us take a cb2 in the draft and Smith move to nickle.  Definitely need to upgrade 2 cb spots from last year 

 

As far a pro bowl for Adams. Yes he is one bright spot. But don't crown him a great player yet. He is ranked 7th in pass interceptions 

 

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/passes-intercepted-and-defensed-leaders/2015/

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/interceptions/year/2015/seasontype/2

 

pass defended he doesn't even make the list

 

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-pass-defenses

 

 

Dont get get me wrong I like Adams. But there a lot of room for improvement  he's just a sparkle on a turd so he looks shinier than he really is 

Obviously we don't have the best secondary in the NFL but the lack of a consistent pass rush didn't help them any. When Mathis led the NFL in sacks our DBs looked pretty darn good. 

[Indyfan4life]

1 hour ago, SP_21 said:

Obviously we don't have the best secondary in the NFL but the lack of a consistent pass rush didn't help them any. When Mathis led the NFL in sacks our DBs looked pretty darn good. 

This. We could sign every top ranked corner/safety in the league, and unless the pass rush and dline do their job, the secondary will struggle. You can only cover someone for so long before they get open, and that starts with the guys up front to create pressure. Whenever we did manage a pass rush, our secondary was pretty good. Toler even did decent.