Was Pep Hamilton coddling Andrew Luck?

[YOUR GM]

Sereiously?

Your male ego is so wounded because you can't actually see someone scolding Andrew Luck on the sidelines that you think the coaches are soft on Luck and soft on the rest of the players.

How pitiful is that?!?

All you need to know is that the team plays hard. And most of the time, the team plays smart.

And, as a result, the team YOU THINK is soft and coddled has won 11 games, 12 games and 13 games over the last 3 years.

But now they're having a bad year and you desperately search for answers and you come up with...........?

They're coddled.

Pitiful. Nonsense. And fan boy.

If you can't see it, you don't believe it.

Wow, you really have suffered. It must suck to be you.......

Dude, you're really annoying. I don't even care who is "right" on the matter. All I ever see you do is go from thread-to-thread starting arguments and insulting people. Give it a rest and pick up a new shtick already. You can disagree with someone without coming across so condescending all the time

[pacolts56]

I rather enjoy watching sideline coach on player rants/coach on coach rants...etc. Let's be honest...some of them are pretty funny.

As long as its the other team of course.

The recent incident with Cowboy thug Greg Hardy and his coach clipboard slap....with, of all people, Dez Bryant trying to be the voice of reason...was pretty entertaining.

But seriously....good coaches SHOULD pick their spots with this. No one wants Pagano going "Joe Pesci" every time a player screws up....but there are times when stupidity on the field should be addressed with the player directly and immediately.

[theanarchist]

I was reading some banter about the upcoming game, and someone made a comment that jarred my memory.

 

I remember in 2012, Luck would make a dumb play, whether it be a pick, or missing a receiver, or what not and going back to the sidelines, Arians would be pretty vocal with Andrew, even yelling at him at times and telling him to dust it off, and what not.

 

Since then, I can't remember Pep ever doing something like that with Luck, you would always see Pep with a "Caldwell" type look on his face after Luck had a blunder, and they would sit down on the bench like it was Sunday afternoon tea and review the play, and when Luck has gotten angry after a dumb mistake, I noticed pep stayed clear and didn't even approach Luck. This even happened last Monday night.

 

So was Pep just too nice? Too "Caldwell"? I think it will be verrrrrrrry interesting to see how Chud approaches Luck during the game on Sunday.

 

For those who don't remember:

 

Gee, I dont ever recall seeing Tom Moore tearing into Peyton when he would throw interceptions....I understand why you asked the question, to spur comment, but I think this is a bit ridiculous

[SilentHill]

You don't have to be a psychology major to figure out what's going on here...

You and a large number of other posters want a coaching staff that would publicly yell and berate a player on national television?

Why? Because when the player screws up you're at home yelling and screaming at the TV. And now you want someone in a position of authority to do what you can't due. The idea that you want it to make the players better is the same mentality that people who are abused by their parents turn right around above their own kids.

The system has worked. The players play hard for Pagano and his staff because he has their back. He and his staff have gone the most out of a roster that is not all that talented (until this year.) The discipline is kept in-houes, behind closed doors. But that's not enough for you because you can't see it. And you don't believe it even happens. Because you can't see it.

And the idea that Luck is a coddled athlete is one of the most embarrassing ideas ever put forth on this website. I'd be embarrassed to have my name attached to that idea.

I remain in the camp that the team deserves a better fan base than the large number of spoiled people who hang out here and post such ridiculous ideas........

I never said I wanted anyone berated or disciplined on the sideine, so thanks for putting words in my mouth at your best attempt yet to become a cyber bully.

So anyway, what I was talking about was a coach not getting a player fired up about a mistake, almost sulking about it, for example, in the clip I posted, Luck walks right by Chuck and Pep not even acknowledging them, he might be his own biggest critic but that doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't get involved.

[SilentHill]

Gee, I dont ever recall seeing Tom Moore tearing into Peyton when he would throw interceptions....I understand why you asked the question, to spur comment, but I think this is a bit ridiculous

You can't compare player and coaches, I remember Arians getting on Luck in 2012 and it seemed to be working because the next drive would be great.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Cause you don't yell at a coach..... duh lol

Peyton was always the coach. The "coaches" just had that title and paycheck.

Remember when he yelled at Donald Brown? I bet he was the only one who yelled at Donald. Peyton is the coach. Remember that

 

Of course you're not serious, right?  Because that couldn't be more wrong. Arians comments on Peyton as his QB coach-

 

"I always called Peyton 'The Piranha,'" Arians said. "I mean, you couldn't feed him enough information. The hardest guy I ever coached was Peyton because if you had a two-hour meeting, you better have two-and-a-half hours worth of stuff ready, because he was going to eat it up and spit it out."

 

Bill Polian comments on Arians mentoring Peyton in to the NFL-

 

"He did a great job breaking Peyton into the National Football League, teaching him what to expect in terms of defenses and in terms of tendencies," Polian said of Arians. "He taught [Peyton] how to watch tape, how to begin to formulate a game plan. He taught Peyton how to have input into the game plan. Enunciate what was appropriate. Enunciate his preference. It was a very strong mentoring relationship."

 

Pulled from here-  http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/94649/manning-luck-spoiled-arians

 

Bruce knows how to read the cues of his QB's and act accordingly. Arians is now known as the QB whisperer too.  Not just becasue of Manning, Roethlisburger, Luck, and resurrecting Carson Palmer, but others like unknown Dave Marler in 1978 with Mississippi State Bulldogs (passing coordinator).  Marler was their kicker, but Bruce saw him throw perfect spirals to the backup K, and he developed Marler into a QB that won the starting job.  M.S. was a wishbone run team.  When Mississippi State faced third-ranked Alabama that October, Marler injured his quad kicking in pregame warm-ups. (Yes, he was starting QB and #1 Kicker) He limped up over to Arians. "Coach," he said, "I can stand still and throw it." The Bulldogs had been a wishbone team, but Arians quickly drew up several shotgun-spread plays that incorporated elements of the wishbone. Scribbling the new plays on sheets of paper, he schooled his players moments before kickoff. What happened? Marler set a school record by throwing for 429 yards. The Crimson Tide pulled away late to win 35-14, but Marler, operating out of the shotgun spread for the rest of the season, suddenly became golden-armed. He lit up the SEC, and in December, the former kicker was named a first-team all-conference quarterback.

 

This story and his close relationship to all his QB's illustrated in this long, but quite good article.

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2546950-bruce-arians-the-nfls-ultimate-quarterback-whisperer

 

No QB comes into the league knowing more than the coaches, I'm sorry to burst that bubble.  And I am certain Pep can be a calm teacher, or emphatic motivator (loud communications) as necessary.

 

Now it is Chud's turn, and he has a proven track record of success.  So if anyone can turn Luck and the Colts around, Chud is it.

[SteelCityColt]

You might be right about Saban and Schiano, but I wouldn't lump Harbaugh in with those two. He appeared to save his tantrums for the refs.......and maybe the front office lol.

 

You're right, Harbaugh is a bad example as he never lost the players it seems, but managed to lose the rest of the FO with his behavior. It's much harder to be a obnoxious upwards

[SteelCityColt]

I rather enjoy watching sideline coach on player rants/coach on coach rants...etc. Let's be honest...some of them are pretty funny.

As long as its the other team of course.

The recent incident with Cowboy thug Greg Hardy and his coach clipboard slap....with, of all people, Dez Bryant trying to be the voice of reason...was pretty entertaining.

But seriously....good coaches SHOULD pick their spots with this. No one wants Pagano going "Joe Pesci" every time a player screws up....but there are times when stupidity on the field should be addressed with the player directly and immediately.

 

When Dez has become the voice of reason you might as well blow it all up

[SteelCityColt]

I dislike the trend of watching the sidelines with a measuring stick for proper emotion or verbal punishment

 

Play is on the field

 

Professionals are hard on themselves.  If not, they should be

 

I'm fine with letting the play speak for itself and letting management deal with poor play.

 

Yelling on the sidelines means nothing to me except somebody is out of control.  I get that it has it's place but, generally I don't expect professionals to berate one another and personally find that berating people does not motivate them to do much besides dislike you

 

Also, people in this thread need to stop berating each other

 

This is one the big differences between college and the NFL for me, they're professionals now. 

 

I know it's a bit Apple to Oranges but if your Boss' way of dealing employees was to constantly to publicly berate them in front of colleagues and customers I can't that relationship being too productive. 

 

Time's change, society changes, you have to people skills these days that go further than screaming till they do what you want. 

[azcolt]

Of course Pep coddled him and every one of his entitled millenial teammates.Vinatieri might be the only guy in the league who doesn't have a shelf full of youth soccer participation trophies.

[OffensivelyPC]

Unless you can explain how coddling hinders your ability to read defenses and make plays, why does it even matter?

[GoColts8818]

I go back to the Robert Mathis quote when someone asked him about Caldwell not yelling at them during 2011 " we are grown men out there and we know when we screw up. We don't need another grown man yelling at us about it, that just makes you tune them out." Think about how you do your job which boss do you respond better to, the one who is always yelling and screaming when things aren't going well or the one who works with you to try to find a solution to the problem? NFL players are no different. Yelling has its time and place but if you do it too much just like Mathis said sooner or latter people stop listening.

[GoColts8818]

Cause you don't yell at a coach..... duh lol

Peyton was always the coach. The "coaches" just had that title and paycheck.

Remember when he yelled at Donald Brown? I bet he was the only one who yelled at Donald. Peyton is the coach. Remember that

see this is the double standard people liked to use with Cladwell, when things went well it was all because Peyton was great and running the ship. When it was sinking it's all Caldwell's fault. So which was it, because Caldwell didn't just coach the games the Colts didn't win while he was here.

[NFLfan]

I go back to the Robert Mathis quote when someone asked him about Caldwell not yelling at them during 2011 " we are grown men out there and we know when we screw up. We don't need another grown man yelling at us about it, that just makes you tune them out." Think about how you do your job which boss do you respond better to, the one who is always yelling and screaming when things aren't going well or the one who works with you to try to find a solution to the problem? NFL players are no different. Yelling has its time and place but if you do it too much just like Mathis said sooner or latter people stop listening.

Excellent post.

[SteelCityColt]

Unless you can explain how coddling hinders your ability to read defenses and make plays, why does it even matter?

 

Maybe the several layers of cotton wall he's been wrapped in affected his throwing motion?

[chad72]

Dungy never yelled at Peyton when he was stinking it up early in the MNF game vs Tampa. There are more than a few ways to get the job done, period. Dungy even admitted he was close to yanking Peyton from that game till the Pyatt return TD happened and then Peyton led the Monday night miracle comeback.

 

So many games, we used to go into the half giving up enough rushing yards just to tighten up after half time to come back roaring after the half. That is the one singular thing I miss about this Luck era Colts. Half time adjustments. If you are truly like family, you don't admonish them in front of the others, you typically handle it behind closed doors. That is how the Colts organization and coaches have operated for a long long time. 

 

Yeah, when the results on the field don't happen, we can point to hundreds of things for reasons but coddling Luck is not even close to the top of those reasons. 

[SilentHill]

People in this thread might have serious reading comprehension disabilities..... once again, just so everyone gets it.

 

I'm not saying to berate or belittle the player on the field, I'm talking about showing some emotion, getting a player fired up after a costly mistake, instead of just sitting by idle, acting like you are afraid of the player.

[jaybird95]

You got the spacing right. The writing not so much.

 

Tried my best, can't write that poorly if I tried.

[NewColtsFan]

You think you may be taking this a tad too seriously? Lighten up a bit. All right I'm done, but really chill a bit. It's just a message forum for football. Have a little fun at times.

 

 

J...

 

You're probably right....    

 

I probably should lighten up, at least some...

 

But it's hard when some of these astonishing threads get posted.....     some are completely mind boggling.

 

I'll try to do better....

[NewColtsFan]

Dude, you're really annoying. I don't even care who is "right" on the matter. All I ever see you do is go from thread-to-thread starting arguments and insulting people. Give it a rest and pick up a new shtick already. You can disagree with someone without coming across so condescending all the time

 

That's your view.

 

Feel free to block me any time you like....

 

Personally,  I don't like the website that I visit polluted by internet graffiti.    

 

Some posters just throw stuff against an internet wall and see if it sticks.

 

Some posters can't think there way out of an internet bag.

 

You see this as me trying to start a fight.....

 

I see this as trying to restore some sense of sanity.     It would be nice if some people would simply think things through before they posted.

 

The idea that Andrew Luck has been coddled seems so preposterous to me,  but perhaps not to you and others....

 

So be it...

[NewColtsFan]

I go back to the Robert Mathis quote when someone asked him about Caldwell not yelling at them during 2011 " we are grown men out there and we know when we screw up. We don't need another grown man yelling at us about it, that just makes you tune them out." Think about how you do your job which boss do you respond better to, the one who is always yelling and screaming when things aren't going well or the one who works with you to try to find a solution to the problem? NFL players are no different. Yelling has its time and place but if you do it too much just like Mathis said sooner or latter people stop listening.

 

Thank you!

[NewColtsFan]

I never said I wanted anyone berated or disciplined on the sideine, so thanks for putting words in my mouth at your best attempt yet to become a cyber bully.

So anyway, what I was talking about was a coach not getting a player fired up about a mistake, almost sulking about it, for example, in the clip I posted, Luck walks right by Chuck and Pep not even acknowledging them, he might be his own biggest critic but that doesn't mean the coaches shouldn't get involved.

 

I don't care that Luck walks right by them.    And frankly,  you shouldn't either.

 

Because when the camera isn't on Andrew Luck when he's on the sidelines (which is most of the time)   you don't know who is going over and talking to him.

 

You're reaching conclusions based on a few seconds of video after one of Luck's bone-headed plays.    And from those few seconds you've decided that no one is approaching him and doing enough with him.

 

And from my reading of your posts,  you'd like to see someone get in his face and give him a little heat to jolt him out of his funk.   

 

We see this differently.     We appear to see lots of things differently.

 

You and I have bucked heads plenty recently, and I think for the most part,  it's been my fault.    So, I'll try to cool things off for a while by not responding to your posts...

 

Probably safer for both of us.......

 

Sorry for the trouble.....

[OffensivelyPC]

People in this thread might have serious reading comprehension disabilities..... once again, just so everyone gets it.

I'm not saying to berate or belittle the player on the field, I'm talking about showing some emotion, getting a player fired up after a costly mistake, instead of just sitting by idle, acting like you are afraid of the player.

but why does that matter? It doesn't work for everyone because we're not all the same.

[YOUR GM]

That's your view.

 

Feel free to block me any time you like....

 

Personally,  I don't like the website that I visit polluted by internet graffiti.    

 

Some posters just throw stuff against an internet wall and see if it sticks.

 

Some posters can't think there way out of an internet bag.

 

You see this as me trying to start a fight.....

 

I see this as trying to restore some sense of sanity.     It would be nice if some people would simply think things through before they posted.

 

The idea that Andrew Luck has been coddled seems so preposterous to me,  but perhaps not to you and others....

 

So be it...

 

It's not what you say that's the problem, it's the fact that you have to be such a *. Also, I'm an adult male, i don't "block" people. It's really not that deep. Be respectful, stop being rude to people you don't even know. Easy concept, really

 

On topic, I think Luck needs a new voice in his hear. He's not very refined as a player, and could use a good QB coach to help him expand his understanding of defenses and how to exploit them. I don't think he was coddled but I also don't think he's getting sound coaching. Otherwise, mistakes he's made since his rookie season would've diminished by now

Edited November 8, 2015 by Nadine
skirting the filter

[JWF]

Is this thread serious?

Pep couldn't call an effective offense. Don't think it has anything to do with pep "coddling" Luck.

[chad72]

It's not what you say that's the problem, it's the fact that you have to be *. Also, I'm an adult male, i don't "block" people. It's really not that deep. Be respectful, stop being rude to people you don't even know. Easy concept, really

 

On topic, I think Luck needs a new voice in his hear. He's not very refined as a player, and could use a good QB coach to help him expand his understanding of defenses and how to exploit them. I don't think he was coddled but I also don't think he's getting sound coaching. Otherwise, mistakes he's made since his rookie season would've diminished by now

 

^^^ Well said to the bolded part. Caldwell was a good QB coach, and it showed with Peyton's turnovers going down once Caldwell and Dungy took over. Peyton did have a 2002 with 19 INTs and a passer rating of around 88 but starting 2003, it was not until 2010 that his passer rating came close to the low 90s again. We all know Collie, Clark etc. all on IR in 2010 and the rest. It was not until Marvin left and he had to break in Garcon and Collie that his INTs went past 14 again for the year. A good QB coach along with a stable offensive group does make a difference over time.

[CoachLite]

I don't recall Arians ever yelling at Luck. I also don't recall Tom Moore ever yelling at Peyton Manning.

A pro football player doesn't need to be reminded of the mistake, he's already very aware that he screwed up. He needs to be reminded of the conditions that allowed the mistake - the difference between what the player saw and what the coach and others saw.

 

People need coaches in every aspect of life to achieve more than is possible all by yourself. This is why some of us complain about the coaching ...

[GoColts8818]

It's not what you say that's the problem, it's the fact that you have * about it. Also, I'm an adult male, i don't "block" people. It's really not that deep. Be respectful, stop being rude to people you don't even know. Easy concept, really

 

On topic, I think Luck needs a new voice in his hear. He's not very refined as a player, and could use a good QB coach to help him expand his understanding of defenses and how to exploit them. I don't think he was coddled but I also don't think he's getting sound coaching. Otherwise, mistakes he's made since his rookie season would've diminished by now

i can agree that his coaching hasn't always been the best and your point about him not correcting mistakes is very valid. That means either the coaching isn't there or Luck is uncoachable and I highly doubt that's the case. That goes on the shoulders of Christensen. I would add like you said that doesn't mean he's being coddled though.

[Superman]

That's not coddlibg

 

I was expecting to see a warm embrace and maybe a kiss on the cheek.

 

They briefly showed Luck and Pep in the same general vicinity, and they weren't even interacting with each other. I don't know what happened before or after that shot, but there was nothing to judge one way or the other in that entire video.

[Superman]

You can't compare player and coaches, I remember Arians getting on Luck in 2012 and it seemed to be working because the next drive would be great.

 

But here you are, comparing a different player/coach relationship...

 

Pep obviously didn't interact with Luck the same way Arians did. And Arians being a better coach than Pep, it's easy to point to that difference and say that's why, but it's really not. There are lots of 'in your face' coaches who are bad coaches, and lots of calmer coaches who are good coaches. 

[SilentHill]

I was expecting to see a warm embrace and maybe a kiss on the cheek.

 

They briefly showed Luck and Pep in the same general vicinity, and they weren't even interacting with each other. I don't know what happened before or after that shot, but there was nothing to judge one way or the other in that entire video.

I think you are thinking about cuddling, lol.

[RockThatBlue]

Bring us Jim Harbaugh or Sean Payton..

I'd love to have Rob Ryan as a DC..

I can dream, right?

Rob Ryan isn't a dream, more like a nightmare.

[GoColts8818]

Rob Ryan isn't a dream, more like a nightmare.

ive always thought Rob Ryan is very over rated. His Ds are never very good. His brother isn't their father but at least his defenses are normally pretty good.

[MR. Blueblood]

Pep's relationship with Luck has gone on for years.  I would like to think, that by now, Pep knows (knew since he's gone now) how to best deal with Luck after he's made a mistake, or two, or three...etc.

 

I started coaching for my local roller derby league this season, and it's a process finding out what the different players respond to.  One thing that I have noticed is that the veteran skaters don't respond all that well to the in your face approach.  The newer skaters seem to do better with it as it sort of "challenges" them to do better and be more accountable.  But as the newer skaters become veteran skaters the way you handled them before needs to be modified.  To me, I believe that to be true with the NFL.  Veterans or professional athletes, IMO, don't need to have somebody breathing fire in their face to get the most out of them.

 

I will say this though, if this team played with half the emotion that Pagano has in his speeches then I think we would be a much better team.  They just seem to come out flat so often.  I don't know what the cure for that is, probably better coaching across the board, but I don't think bringing in a brow beater will necessairly do the trick either.