New Spygate Otl Report.

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

And this is the stuff that pisses me off. Did you even read what I wrote? I quite literally said that it doesn't excuse their actions, and that I'm not deflecting when I just make a point that things go on in this league that we don't even know about and that the Patriots can't be the only ones doing it.

IT'S NOT DEFLECTION IF I'M ADMITTING THAT IT DOESN'T EXCUSE THEIR ACTIONS!

What you don't seen to understand when you bring what other teams have or haven't done it is deflection. The subject is about the Patriots, not about other teams. I don't have to use capital letters to make a point either. It makes no difference if the Patriots are not the only team doing anything. The Patriots are the ones who got caught and what other teams do has no bearing on it.

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

Well, it was characterized as sour grapes whenever the Steelers said "they knew what was coming" when Brady took them down in the 2004 AFCCG. But then, Brady is not nearly the QB he is now. He still managed games well and did not turn it over but you have to wonder early on, how he could read Dick LeBeau formations that LeBeau normally saves for the playoffs. I still wonder. There is too much smoke to not have fire with it, IMO.

Goodell did only the Pats a favor when he destroyed the tapes and not the entire league like he thought he was, IMO.

How is it that Spygate was about filming defensive signals to help our offense but the great majority of anti-Bradyers tend to give him zero credit for the successes of those teams and like to point out that it was all because of the defense?

It can't be both ways...if people want to make the case that Spygate was why the Patriots won, then they cant also say that the defense was the reason they won. If people want to make the case that cheating by stealing defensive signals with a video camera instead of a pen and paper were responsible for the Patriots success, then they can't then say Brady had nothing to do with those wins.

Just more attempts to discredit the Patriots dominance during this era.

RockThatBlue · September 8, 2015

I honestly can't believe that ESPN got us talking about Spygate today...it really is unbelievable.

If the patriots didn't cheat it wouldn't be talked about at all. Blame your team not ESPN

bababooey · September 8, 2015

I honestly can't believe that ESPN got us talking about Spygate today...it really is unbelievable.

Well when we realized they cheat on everything and got embarrased for saying the false PSI reports and saw Brady get off on technicalities due to his own defiance I bet they made sure to try to turn over every stone about the scandal that was swept under the rug.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

Dustin · September 8, 2015

Gee, this article came out a week after Brady mops the floor with the NFL.

Uh huh. Yeah, that time isn't suspicious whatsoever. Nope, the NFL isn't out for the Patriots at all.

Not at all.

Hysterical. Anyone who read through that article and noted the "someone" and "insert random person here" would have realized what a piece of ridiculousness that article was.

Thanks for the laughs this morning!

Yes, the NFL put out a story that accuses the Commissioner of trying to cover up SpyGate

chad72 · September 8, 2015

How is it that Spygate was about filming defensive signals to help our offense but the great majority of anti-Bradyers tend to give him zero credit for the successes of those teams and like to point out that it was all because of the defense?

It can't be both ways...if people want to make the case that Spygate was why the Patriots won, then they cant also say that the defense was the reason they won. If people want to make the case that cheating by stealing defensive signals with a video camera instead of a pen and paper were responsible for the Patriots success, then they can't then say Brady had nothing to do with those wins.

Just more attempts to discredit the Patriots dominance during this era.

There were games Brady had to put the team on his shoulders like the 2004 AFCCG and 2004 SB vs the Panthers, so I am not in the crowd saying it was all because of the defense. But he definitely was not the QB he is now, so the games the offense HAD TO make plays, it was definitely a factor, IMO. Those games could have been swing games going one way or the other, to me, in light of Spygate.

The defense's part was keeping the games close. During the 3 SBs in 4 year time span (till 2005), I don't think the Patriots ever trailed by more than 3 in the fourth quarter. That, the D was a big part of. But there were plenty of games the offense had to make it happen and did.

bababooey · September 8, 2015

If the Patriots were a person they would be Ryan Braun. Unreal

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

bababooey · September 8, 2015

http://player.radio.com/listen/station/sports-radio-66-wfan-ny

Should be good.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

bababooey · September 8, 2015

Honestly don't get how Donald Sterling had to sell his team and be banned for life over something disgusting he did in private that didn't even touch the sport compared to what Kraft allows to fester...

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

csmopar · September 8, 2015

I honestly can't believe that ESPN got us talking about Spygate today...it really is unbelievable.

Probably because some new method of cheating by the Patriots is about to be exposed.....

pgt_rob · September 8, 2015

I honestly can't believe that ESPN got us talking about Spygate today...it really is unbelievable.

Not just cameras but many other ways of cheating...

csmopar · September 8, 2015

Well, it was characterized as sour grapes whenever the Steelers said "they knew what was coming" when Brady took them down in the 2004 AFCCG. But then, Brady was not nearly the QB he is now. He still managed games well and did not turn it over but you have to wonder early on, how he could read Dick LeBeau formations that LeBeau normally saves for the playoffs. I still wonder. There is too much smoke to not have fire with it, IMO.

Goodell did only the Pats a favor when he destroyed the tapes and not the entire league like he thought he was, IMO. I still feel Brady is a great QB but I firmly believe he would not have 4 SB rings and his claim to be GOAT without Belichick and his staff pulling all those shenanigans, IMO.

agreed, especially on the Brady part.

ColtRider · September 8, 2015

How is it that Spygate was about filming defensive signals to help our offense but the great majority of anti-Bradyers tend to give him zero credit for the successes of those teams and like to point out that it was all because of the defense?

It can't be both ways...if people want to make the case that Spygate was why the Patriots won, then they cant also say that the defense was the reason they won. If people want to make the case that cheating by stealing defensive signals with a video camera instead of a pen and paper were responsible for the Patriots success, then they can't then say Brady had nothing to do with those wins.

Just more attempts to discredit the Patriots dominance during this era.

It's about attempts to discredit "cheating". The Patriots have chosen to use this tool over the years multiple times. Both go hand-in-hand.

The fact that New England won more than not, only permeates the proven suspicious activities promulgated by themselves, and most importantly, ratifies it.

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

What you don't seen to understand when you bring what other teams have or haven't done it is deflection. The subject is about the Patriots, not about other teams. I don't have to use capital letters to make a point either. It makes no difference if the Patriots are not the only team doing anything. The Patriots are the ones who got caught and what other teams do has no bearing on it.

Of course it does, especially to those who don't understand what the scandal was actually about and therefor want to make the case that the Patriots only won because of it. Pointing out other instances of something comparable is not deflection...it is basically pointing out to people that live under a rock that it common practice. I am not deflecting if I am admitting the wrong doing and saying that I don't condone the way they went about it. There is a difference between saying 'yeah but that team does it too' and saying 'every team does it, but the Patriots got caught for doing it differently and accepted their punishment.' Doing the latter is not deflection, and that's all I've done regarding Spygate since we first talking about it here almost a decade ago.

Look...the article legit says "The practice of stealing signals was universal in football...with advance scouts jotting down notes then matching the signal with the play...the Patriots created a novel spying system that made the decoding more dependable"...

Mentioning the first part of that is not deflection...it is 100% relevant to the topic being discussed.

Mentioning other examples of skirting the rules and the punishments that followed is not deflection because it is comparable to the issue at hand.

That's what YOU don't seem to understand. We have accepted the punishment and moved on. We have admitted that the way we went about doing something that is fairly routine in the league is wrong. It isn't deflecting if you admit it. We were punished for the action, not the result. As the article stated, the result is universal in football, but the way we were to get it was illegal and we were punished.

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

So Jimmy Johnson said that everyone did it.
Mike Ditka said that everyone did it.
Many other NFL coaches said that everyone did it.
What did BB do wrong? He did it for a year longer than others.

Oh, and for those who don't actually understand Spygate, here it is:

Once again, deflection. That is something Patriot fans have become very good at. So another team might be doing something against the rules so it makes it OK. It's amazing how Patriot fans make excuses for their team.

12dalegend · September 8, 2015

Just gets worse for the Pats. They will be forever under the microscope and just cannot be trusted.

* nuff said

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

It's about attempts to discredit "cheating". The Patriots have chosen to use this tool over the years multiple times. Both go hand-in-hand.
The fact that New England won more than not, only permeates the proven suspicious activities promulgated by themselves, and most importantly, ratifies it.

Read the article that Dustin posted.

The Patriots are in everyone's heads and that's what this comes down to. Teams consistently look for things and find nothing. The whole thing has become a parody of itself and the fact that people are getting all riled up about the same thing they did 8 full years ago is insane. Stick extra officials to watch their every move...they'll still win and people will still point towards something. Those banners aren't coming down so it's time to just deal with it.

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

Of course it does, especially to those who don't understand what the scandal was actually about and therefor want to make the case that the Patriots only won because of it. Pointing out other instances of something comparable is not deflection...it is basically pointing out to people that live under a rock that it common practice. I am not deflecting if I am admitting the wrong doing and saying that I don't condone the way they went about it. There is a difference between saying 'yeah but that team does it too' and saying 'every team does it, but the Patriots got caught for doing it differently and accepted their punishment.' Doing the latter is not deflection, and that's all I've done regarding Spygate since we first talking about it here almost a decade ago.

Look...the article legit says "The practice of stealing signals was universal in football...with advance scouts jotting down notes then matching the signal with the play...the Patriots created a novel spying system that made the decoding more dependable"...

Mentioning the first part of that is not deflection...it is 100% relevant to the topic being discussed.

Mentioning other examples of skirting the rules and the punishments that followed is not deflection because it is comparable to the issue at hand.

That's what YOU don't seem to understand. We have accepted the punishment and moved on. We have admitted that the way we went about doing something that is fairly routine in the league is wrong. It isn't deflecting if you admit it. We were punished for the action, not the result. As the article stated, the result is universal in football, but the way we were to get it was illegal and we were punished.

Yes your team was punished. But not to the extent it deserved because Goodell covered for Kraft at the time about the extent of what happened. That is why Kraft put his faith in Goodell the second time. Well it backfired. I blame both Kraft and Goodell because both used their friendship to sway what should have been done in the first place. It is never a good idea for employers and employees to have a personal tie to each other. I am tired of you using capital letters to make a point. This is a forum, not a shouting match. If you can't discuss this with me without using capital letters (shouting) it might be best no to comment to me. The little ignore button is at your disposal.

ColtRider · September 8, 2015

Read the article that Dustin posted.

The Patriots are in everyone's heads and that's what this comes down to. Teams consistently look for things and find nothing. The whole thing has become a parody of itself and the fact that people are getting all riled up about the same thing they did 8 full years ago is insane. Stick extra officials to watch their every move...they'll still win and people will still point towards something. Those banners aren't coming down so it's time to just deal with it.

I don't have a problem with banners. I do, however, have a problem how they got there. Whether cheating played a catapult to them or not, you cannot totally discard the notion that it might have. And therein, lies the problem with all "Gated" issues for the NFL fan.

csmopar · September 8, 2015

It's pure conjecture on my part, but I wonder if Reggie asked to be released because all the pats* were doing were trying to get Colts info out of him.

Based on the following quote, I'd say the likelihood of that is EXTREMELY high:

"As much as the Patriots tried to keep the circle of those who knew about the taping small, sometimes the team would add recently cut players from upcoming opponents and pay them only to help decipher signals, former Patriots staffers say. In 2005, for instance, they signed a defensive player from a team they were going to play in the upcoming season. Before that game, the player was led to a room where Adams was waiting. They closed the door, and Adams played a compilation tape that matched the signals to the plays from the player's former team, and asked how many were accurate......."

NewColtsFan · September 8, 2015

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/08/patriots-cheating-suspicions-bill-belichick-tom-brady?xid=si_social

Great find, Dustin! Mad props to you!

And it just came out today. The same day that ESPN's OTL show comes out with their findings.

I don't think that's a coincidence. The word got out that one of the two media groups was investigating, and the other jumped in as well.

Great stuff. And so, so damning.

When your peers think you play fast and loose with the rules that's about as bad as it gets.

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

Ok Peter Pan...don't forget to drink your milk before bed.

Grow up, this article shouldn't even be a story...Deflategate is over so ESPN decided to re-summarize Spygate for everyone. The NFL looks worse with this article than the Patriots, and as I said, it just gives more ammo to those that already hate the Patriots.

ESPN did not just re-summarize. They just told more of spygate that had been covered up by Goodell and Kraft at the time. Sooner or later the whole truth will be known. This is the type of crap that causes people to hate the Patriots. You make your bed, now lay in it.

PeterBowman · September 8, 2015

Great find, Dustin!     Mad props to you!

And it just came out today.    The same day that ESPN's OTL show comes out with their findings.

I don't think that's a coincidence.     The word got out that one of the two media groups was investigating, and the other jumped in as well.

Great stuff.     And so, so damning.

When your peers think you play fast and loose with the rules that's about as bad as it gets.

this is true, but when the powers that be don't punish the offending party like they should have been, it just emboldens them more.

pgt_rob · September 8, 2015

this is the greatest post of all time. It's like yelling uncle.

:lol: :scoregood:

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

ESPN did not just re-summarize. They just told more of spygate that had been covered up by Goodell and Kraft at the time. Sooner or later the whole truth will be known. This is the type of crap that causes people to hate the Patriots. You make your bed, now lay in it.

How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady and dishonest?

Hell, that's sort of been his M.O., no?

pgt_rob · September 8, 2015

How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Are you serious? :pkb:

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

:lol:

Are you serious?

Don't feel like answering?

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady and dishonest?

Hell, that's sort of been his M.O., no?

You conveniently left out Goodells buddy, Kraft. The employer and employee have both been caught using their friendship to sway the whole NFL and it's other owners.

bababooey · September 8, 2015

Don't feel like answering?

You didn't answer my post from #9

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

You conveniently left out Goodells buddy, Kraft. The employer and employee have both been caught using their friendship to sway the whole NFL and it's other owners.

I didn't conveniently leave out anything...I simply wasn't talking about their friendship. You made the case that Kraft covered up spygate and that was why people hated the Patriots.

Don't 'deflect'....I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell wanting to bury Spygate details? He could have done anything he wanted and chose the course of action he did.

pgt_rob · September 8, 2015

Don't feel like answering?

I couldn't respond from all my laughter.

There is no doubt that Roger Goodell did not handle a vast majority of this properly. Which is why so many have gotten away with things. These articles are coming out addressing Goodell in what he did to cover up things to save face or not make the league look bad. But the thing is, Goodell wouldn't have to cover up anything if teams didn't bend/break the rules.

dynasty13 · September 8, 2015

I couldn't respond from all my laughter.

There is no doubt that Roger Goodell did not handle a vast majority of this properly. Which is why so many have gotten away with things. These articles are coming out addressing Goodell in what he did to cover up things to save face or not make the league look bad. But the thing is, Goodell wouldn't have to cover up anything if teams didn't bend/break the rules.

That's true...but CrazyColts made the statement that Goodell and Kraft covered up Spygate...and I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell covering it up and you said it was pot calling the kettle black. I don't really understand how your response was related to my comment, that's all.

bababooey · September 8, 2015

I didn't conveniently leave out anything...I simply wasn't talking about their friendship. You made the case that Kraft covered up spygate and that was why people hated the Patriots.

Don't 'deflect'....I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell wanting to bury Spygate details? He could have done anything he wanted and chose the course of action he did.

It's the Patriots fault for putting Goodell into the position where he, as a new commissioner, has found that the winners of 3 of the last four superbowls cheated, and, if evidence became public, would SEVERELY hurt the NFL just as he was getting started. He did damage control to cover himself because of the position the Pats put him in.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

open window · September 8, 2015

Go Steelers!

pgt_rob · September 8, 2015

That's true...but CrazyColts made the statement that Goodell and Kraft covered up Spygate...and I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell covering it up and you said it was pot calling the kettle black. I don't really understand how your response was related to my comment, that's all.

I didn't see your quotation, my bad. I just saw the "Patriots fault for Goodell being shady" part.

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

I didn't conveniently leave out anything...I simply wasn't talking about their friendship. You made the case that Kraft covered up spygate and that was why people hated the Patriots.

Don't 'deflect'....I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell wanting to bury Spygate details? He could have done anything he wanted and chose the course of action he did.

And why is that? I suppose it was out of the goodness of his heart? I guess his personal friendship with Kraft played no part in his wanting to minimize the Patriots involvement?

crazycolt1 · September 8, 2015

That's true...but CrazyColts made the statement that Goodell and Kraft covered up Spygate...and I asked why it was the Patriots fault for Goodell covering it up and you said it was pot calling the kettle black. I don't really understand how your response was related to my comment, that's all.

Because you omitted some important information. It's not rocket science.

21isSuperman · September 8, 2015

Honestly don't get how Donald Sterling had to sell his team and be banned for life over something disgusting he did in private that didn't even touch the sport compared to what Kraft allows to fester...

Apples and oranges

mikey287 · September 8, 2015

Damn, that yourteamcheats site is pretty embarrassing for the creators. I'm not going to click on it again, but I like the part how the biggest cheating scandal in NFL history is worth slightly less than making crowd noise louder...that is top-notch trolling...

Anyhow, I'm not going to pile on on this particular thing...the team and its wins are tarnished, regardless of what more or less comes out of these scandals, that won't change...it doesn't do anything for us in a positive manner, because it's not like we win those AFC Championship games now, it's just that people that pay close attention to football know that the playing field wasn't even...

What's done is done...it's a shame that the NFL and its fans had to be put through this over the past 15 years, but what can you do...

Yehoodi · September 8, 2015

Thanks so much. And now for this.......

n fact, many former New England coaches and employees insist that the taping of signals wasn't even the most effective cheating method the Patriots deployed in that era. Several of them acknowledge that during pregame warm-ups, a low-level Patriots employee would sneak into the visiting locker room and steal the play sheet, listing the first 20 or so scripted calls for the opposing team's offense. (The practice became so notorious that some coaches put out fake play sheets for the Patrio

Whatever . . . when I see video evidence of this, or just as important a person come out publicly on TV saying the above, then this is simply an article written for a sport station that reported in Jan. that 11 of 12 pats balls were 2 psig below spec., and we all know how that turned out, don't we.

Funny how a few days after the haters lost the ability to say "Brady got suspended therefore any acts in January were heinous" we have a report from the same company that lied about the facts in January.

Again when I see evidence with my own eyes I filed this article in my Mortensen file.

Bottom line, ESPN and the haters lost Framegate and they are rolling out Spygate and a bunch of "statements" from unnamed sources.

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