Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[amfootball]

Or mabye he has his own opinion just like the whole rest of the world?

He is entitled to his opinion but what he wants Brady to do, he did in the appeal for 10 hours. So I have no idea why he is telling Brady to man up when he did for 10 hours under oath and 100 percent denied the allegations and also made his phone records public which are now circulating all over the Internet which is why he refused to hand over his phone info in the first place ...

[jvan1973]

He is entitled to his opinion but what he wants Brady to do, he did in the appeal for 10 hours. So I have no idea why he is telling Brady to man up when he did for 10 hours under oath and 100 percent denied the allegations and also made his phone records public which are now circulating all over the Internet which is why he refused to hand over his phone info in the first place ...

The text messages were never retrieved.

[Bubbz]

He is entitled to his opinion but what he wants Brady to do, he did in the appeal for 10 hours. So I have no idea why he is telling Brady to man up when he did for 10 hours under oath and 100 percent denied the allegations and also made his phone records public which are now circulating all over the Internet which is why he refused to hand over his phone info in the first place ...

How do the phone records help exonerate Brady? They don't have the texts. He could've texted every person in his contacts and told them he did it and it wouldn't make a difference

[ViriLudant]

The text messages were never retrieved.

McNally and Jastemski's were.

[ViriLudant]

"The only thing that bums me out [is] if you are at quarterback and you did nothing wrong [and] they ask you to do something and show something, do it," Kelly said. "I love Tom to death and I think he is one of the greatest to play the game. Do think he is a cheater? I don't think so. No."

[crazycolt1]

    Yea, I would characterize the actions of patriots employees, the texts, and Brady destroying his phone as suspicious.  I don't believe quite a bit of what they have said in interviews and ,for me, that hurts their credibility.  That said, the infraction (if it occurred) is relatively minor. There is precedent for punishment when it comes to manipulating game balls after they have been checked by officials.  

 

     Also, from what I understand the NFL was warned in advance about the possibility of the Patriots monkeying with the game balls.  The response of officials was to:

• neglect to record pre-game inflation levels (we are working from Anderson's memory)
• haphazardly use two meters that resulted in the possibility of a variance in measurement  
• fail to do even a cursory re-check when the balls went missing right before game time only to magically appear in the hands of patriot staff 

     I could understand any of these things happening under normal circumstances but the NFL had been warned explicitly to watch out for shenanigans with the game balls.  Armed with this warning, NFL staff did their best Barney Fife impersonation.  Does this make the Patriots innocent? No, but it definitely played a part in allowing this overblown saga to take place and makes it very difficult to prove what exactly happened.

 

     As far as the "smear campaign" comment,  it is widely accepted that Mike Kensil (VP of Game Ops) was a source of false information that the NFL was obligated to correct.  Instead they allowed the information to float around until public perception was irrevocably altered and a relatively small issue had turned into what we have now.  if you still balk at the term "smear campaign" surely you'll admit that the NFL has manipulated the flow of information in a manner that benefits one side.

 

    Luckisawesome, this is probably more response than your "LOLwut" reply deserves but I decided that I wanted to be clear.  I think that it is entirely possible that the game balls were manipulated by the Patriots and they, as an organization, lack credibility.  I also feel that the NFL would need a thinktank to devise a way to handle this situation worse.  They have displayed incompetence and bias that makes me question their credibility as well.  Based on what information we have now, I don't see how anyone could make a decision without a significant amount of doubt.

 

     This is pretty much my thoughts on the matter.  I won't respond further unless there is some error in the information I have provided.  Like I said before, I'm not going to waste my time debating here.  This forum is useful for training camp updates and thats really about it.  Any subject requiring impartiality and critical thinking is better discussed elsewhere.  

So after writing a mini novel on your opinion of the NFL you say the forum is useful for training camp updates and that's about it. If all you think the forum is good for is training camp updates then what are you doing making comment on this topic? It's called a forum for a reason that evidently escapes you.

[jvan1973]

McNally and Jastemski's were.

not all of them could be retrieved from their phones. Thus the need for toms phone

[amfootball]

not all of them could be retrieved from their phones. Thus the need for toms phone

You must have missed the part in the appeal where Kessler told the NFL they could ask Brady about the 3 missing texts and what were contained in them and they declined to ask him.

[jvan1973]

You must have missed the part in the appeal where Kessler told the NFL they could ask Brady about the 3 missing texts and what were contained in them and they declined to ask him.

He could have just provided the phone. Highly unlikely he would be truthful about their contents if they would have shown his guilt

[ViriLudant]

He could have just provided the phone. Highly unlikely he would be truthful about their contents if they would have shown his guilt

Except Wells told him that he didn't want the phone.

And Brady didn't want to set a precedent as a member of the Union . Nor did his lawyers want him to.

[jvan1973]

Except Wells told him that he didn't want the phone.

And Brady didn't want to set a precedent as a member of the Union . Nor did his lawyers want him to.

innocent people don't hide behind their lawyers

[ViriLudant]

innocent people don't hide behind their lawyers

ROFL

ROFL

ROFL

yeah, you have no idea how unions work.

[amfootball]

He could have just provided the phone. Highly unlikely he would be truthful about their contents if they would have shown his guilt

Kessler said the NFL could ask him and he would have answered but they chose to even ask which mean they did not think those 3 texts meant much.

[jvan1973]

ROFL

ROFL

ROFL

yeah, you have no idea how unions work.

I've been in a union longer than Brady has.

[jvan1973]

Kessler said the NFL could ask him and he would have answered but they chose to even ask which mean they did not think those 3 texts meant much.

no, it means they wanted the texts, not his version of the content of the texts

[amfootball]

no, it means they wanted the texts, not his version of the content of the texts

They still could have asked to see what his explanation would have been and then saw if it corroborated or contradicted with the rest of his testimony. They didn't even bother so that tells you all you need to know about how important they thought they were.

[Bubbz]

They still could have asked to see what his explanation would have been and then saw if it corroborated or contradicted with the rest of his testimony. They didn't even bother so that tells you all you need to know about how important they thought they were.

How would they possibly be able to corroborate that? He could've said anything

[buccolts]

"The only thing that bums me out [is] if you are at quarterback and you did nothing wrong [and] they ask you to do something and show something, do it," Kelly said. "I love Tom to death and I think he is one of the greatest to play the game. Do think he is a cheater? I don't think so. No."

That last quote sounds like he's quoting Tom from the day after interview.

[Narcosys]

You must have missed the part in the appeal where Kessler told the NFL they could ask Brady about the 3 missing texts and what were contained in them and they declined to ask him.

Well from the transcript it's not likely he would remember anyways. Seems brady wad doing drugs during this time it diverging cause he can't recall much.

[Bad Morty]

It took longer than I thought, but the release of that transcript with the irrefutable proof that Goodell is a liar pursuing an agenda fueled witch hunt has finally put this "scandal" on the course I expected, that being that only rabid fans of rival teams would still cling to the increasingly preposterous idea that Brady cheated while the national media and opinion makers are jumping off that sinking ship like rats.

[amfootball]

It took longer than I thought, but the release of that transcript with the irrefutable proof that Goodell is a liar pursuing an agenda fueled witch hunt has finally put this "scandal" on the course I expected, that being that only rabid fans of rival teams would still cling to the increasingly preposterous idea that Brady cheated while the national media and opinion makers are jumping off that sinking ship like rats.

Yeah that 20 page appeal letter by Goodell was wrought with lies. All the national folks have pointed it out. The tide has turned on the media front. I am glad this judge is forcing everything to be public so the league cannot control the narrative.

 

From Yahoo, http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-goodell-s-manipulation-of-tom-brady-s-testimony-leaves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

 

Weitzel ends his story with this question: "How does anyone in the NFL – owner, coach, player or fan – possibly trust the league office to investigate and rule on anything ever again?"

[Nadine]

It took longer than I thought, but the release of that transcript with the irrefutable proof that Goodell is a liar pursuing an agenda fueled witch hunt has finally put this "scandal" on the course I expected, that being that only rabid fans of rival teams would still cling to the increasingly preposterous idea that Brady cheated while the national media and opinion makers are jumping off that sinking ship like rats.

ease up on the hyperbole please.  In particular stop with any reference to anyone who disagrees with you.  You'll be more in compliance with our board rule to be civil and less likely to be banned for disregarding our community rules

[amfootball]

How would they possibly be able to corroborate that? He could've said anything

He has 100 pages of testimony. Whatever he said they could have compared with his other testimony as his communications with JJ were discussed at length.

[jvan1973]

It took longer than I thought, but the release of that transcript with the irrefutable proof that Goodell is a liar pursuing an agenda fueled witch hunt has finally put this "scandal" on the course I expected, that being that only rabid fans of rival teams would still cling to the increasingly preposterous idea that Brady cheated while the national media and opinion makers are jumping off that sinking ship like rats.

can I get a link to the irrefutable proof of his lies?

[amfootball]

can I get a link to the irrefutable proof of his lies?

All you have to do is read Brady's testimony and compare to Roger's 20 page appeal award letter.

 

But these two national articles probably do the best job of summarizing it:

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-goodell-s-manipulation-of-tom-brady-s-testimony-leaves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2015/08/05/roger-goodell-misled-me-brady-appeal-transcript-shows/

[Swan Ronson]

So one man's word against another is somehow irrefutable proof.

[pgt_rob]

So when is the final say on this crap? Next Wednesday?

[amfootball]

So one man's word against another is somehow irrefutable proof.

Huh? You have Brady's testimony word for word and then you have Rodger's mischaracterization of that in the appeal letter to paint him as guilty. Come on guys now. This is as black and white as it comes.

[Swan Ronson]

Huh? You have Brady's testimony word for word and then you have Rodger's mischaracterization of that in the appeal letter to paint him as guilty. Come on guys now. This is as black and white as it comes.

I have absolutely no interest in reading Brady's testimony or Roger's characterisation of it. What has happened from the start though is that people have picked a side and they believe every single word that comes from that side, so the other side are by definition lying.

 

It's ridiculous from both sides.

[Track Guy]

Huh? You have Brady's testimony word for word and then you have Rodger's mischaracterization of that in the appeal letter to paint him as guilty. Come on guys now. This is as black and white as it comes.

 

It's been a huge embarrassment for the NFL from the start. I took some heat on here months ago for saying that I thought the whole thing was ridiculous, especially given that I was never convinced anyone let any air out of the footballs in the first place. I'm hoping the suspension gets overturned. 

[crazycolt1]

Kessler said the NFL could ask him and he would have answered but they chose to even ask which mean they did not think those 3 texts meant much.

which means they did not think those 3 texts meant much. You are adding your opinion, and not fact.

[BullsColtsFan1]

So when is the final say on this crap? Next Wednesday?

One can only hope. I wish it was in the next 5 min to be honest

[Bubbz]

He has 100 pages of testimony. Whatever he said they could have compared with his other testimony as his communications with JJ were discussed at length.

So basically he just had to make something up, and remember what he said? Or have his attorney who's paid for that do it for him

[Narcosys]

Double post.

[Narcosys]

Yeah that 20 page appeal letter by Goodell was wrought with lies. All the national folks have pointed it out. The tide has turned on the media front. I am glad this judge is forcing everything to be public so the league cannot control the narrative.

From Yahoo, http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-goodell-s-manipulation-of-tom-brady-s-testimony-leaves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

Weitzel ends his story with this question: "How does anyone in the NFL – owner, coach, player or fan – possibly trust the league office to investigate and rule on anything ever again?"

Umm I'm pretty sure it was the nflpa that didn't want it public. The nfl wanted it public. Seems to contradict this witch hunt you speak of.

Edit: I'm hearing conflicting information.

[amfootball]

Umm in pretty sure it was the nflpa that didn't want it public. The nfl wanted it public. Seems to contradict this witch hunt you speak of.

Read the appeals transcript. Kessler asked the NFL to make the transcript public to be transparent with the public and the NFL said no.

[dw49]

Yeah that 20 page appeal letter by Goodell was wrought with lies. All the national folks have pointed it out. The tide has turned on the media front. I am glad this judge is forcing everything to be public so the league cannot control the narrative.

 

From Yahoo, http://sports.yahoo.com/news/roger-goodell-s-manipulation-of-tom-brady-s-testimony-leaves-nfl-on-slippery-slope-214409591-nfl.html

 

Weitzel ends his story with this question: "How does anyone in the NFL – owner, coach, player or fan – possibly trust the league office to investigate and rule on anything ever again?"

 

 

That article by Weitzel is absolute mush. 

[amfootball]

That article by Weitzel is absolute mush. 

Have you read the appeals transcript?

[dw49]

Have you read the appeals transcript?

 

 

No I haven't . I would rather just wait and see how it ends up . Too busy right now 

[amfootball]

No I haven't . I would rather just wait and see how it ends up . Too busy right now 

Ok that is fine but the Yahoo story is commenting on the transcript and comparing to Roger's appeal letter. So after you read the transcript than re-read Yahoo and it will make more sense.