Deflategate Central (one thread, merged, moderated)

[dynasty13]

I'm asking a direct question. I wish someone would answer it. 

 

Why would the NFL deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud, especially in the manner which you described in the previous post? 

 

I think that if it turns out to be Mike Kensil that has spearheaded this thing at the beginning and leaked false information intentionally, then it is a little easier to explain. Mike Kensil, former Jets executive and hater of all thing Patriot. 

 

I don't think it was the intention of the NFL as a whole at first to 'deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud', but this thing took off the second that Mortensen report came out and the damage was done, public perception was set, and the narrative was in motion. I think from then on both the Patriots and the NFL acted poorly and it went from there, but I have a big, BIG problem if it turns out that it was a league higher up that leaked this information intentionally at the beginning.

[dynasty13]

False information, yes.

Reasonable suspicion of cheating, no.

 

But false information IS what it was. That is a FACT, regardless of what suspicion there was, someone in the league intentionally gave Mortensen wrong information to report, and that is unacceptable and reeks of there being a hidden motive.

[jvan1973]

I think that if it turns out to be Mike Kensil that has spearheaded this thing at the beginning and leaked false information intentionally, then it is a little easier to explain. Mike Kensil, former Jets executive and hater of all thing Patriot.

I don't think it was the intention of the NFL as a whole at first to 'deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud', but this thing took off the second that Mortensen report came out and the damage was done, public perception was set, and the narrative was in motion. I think from then on both the Patriots and the NFL acted poorly and it went from there, but I have a big, BIG problem if it turns out that it was a league higher up that leaked this information intentionally at the beginning.

Mort isn't going to reveal his source. Go ahead and forget about that

[Moose Of Woe]

False information, yes.

Reasonable suspicion of cheating, no.

 

Adding to this:

In the unlikely case the NFL set this all up, the Patriots still have a buttload of circumstantial evidence against them suggesting that they did, in fact, cheat. Again. Regardless of what caused the investigation side to roll, the Patriots brought it upon themselves.

 

This is all an attempt to deflect the blame to the NFL when the Patriots (well, Brady) are the ones on trial.

[Moose Of Woe]

But false information IS what it was. That is a FACT, regardless of what suspicion there was, someone in the league intentionally gave Mortensen wrong information to report, and that is unacceptable and reeks of there being a hidden motive.

Is it more probable than not it was someone in the league? Or could it have been anyone? Maybe some bitter person on the Colts? Or the Ravens?

 

Plenty of people have a well deserved hatred of the Patriots that would lie to get something rolling against them. Not that it's the right thing to do and they should be punished accordingly.

 

Still, regardless that doesn't exonorate the Patriots from any misdeeds.

[Superman]

I think that if it turns out to be Mike Kensil that has spearheaded this thing at the beginning and leaked false information intentionally, then it is a little easier to explain. Mike Kensil, former Jets executive and hater of all thing Patriot. 

 

I don't think it was the intention of the NFL as a whole at first to 'deliberately drag the Patriots through the mud', but this thing took off the second that Mortensen report came out and the damage was done, public perception was set, and the narrative was in motion. I think from then on both the Patriots and the NFL acted poorly and it went from there, but I have a big, BIG problem if it turns out that it was a league higher up that leaked this information intentionally at the beginning.

 

The truth is that all of the Patriots balls were under the approved limit. No, 11 of 12 weren't 2 pounds under, but seriously, that's a detail that could easily be miscommunicated. You guys have latched on to that as proof that the media and the league are out to get the Pats, and I think that's unreasonable. 

 

Even still, if it's true that Kensil leaked this -- and there's no proof of that, just a rumor -- that still doesn't explain why the NFL, not just Kensil, but the league office, would want to create a false narrative to harm the Patriots, despite all ensuing evidence. 

 

It goes back to why. I don't understand why the league would want to destroy Tom Brady's reputation, or tick off Bob Kraft. 

[dynasty13]

Mort isn't going to reveal his source. Go ahead and forget about that

 

It doesn't even matter if he reveals his source...his tweet literally read 'PER LEAGUE SOURCES'. 

[dynasty13]

Is it more probable than not it was someone in the league? Or could it have been anyone? Maybe some bitter person on the Colts? Or the Ravens?

 

Again, his tween literally read 'PER LEAGUE SOURCES.'

[jvan1973]

It doesn't even matter if he reveals his source...his tweet literally read 'PER LEAGUE SOURCES'.

That could have been one of the officials.

[HOZER]

So you see nothing wrong...nothing at all...with intentionally giving someone false information to report to the public?

This has not been proven, you are basing your comment off of what a couple of radio guys said,, not exactly a credible source. Soooo you're kind of doing the same thing, no?

[dynasty13]

That could have been one of the officials.

 

The officials that measured the balls and knew the actual numbers? The fact is that somebody intentionally provided false information to Mortensen to report...so there's a motive in there for someone connected with the league. I don't really understand how you guys can't see that as a problem for Patriot's fans.

[HOZER]

because the whole world is jealous of them.

We hate them cuz we ain't them?

[jvan1973]

The officials that measured the balls and knew the actual numbers? The fact is that somebody intentionally provided false information to Mortensen to report...so there's a motive in there for someone connected with the league. I don't really understand how you guys can't see that as a problem for Patriot's fans.

Or mort is full of it.

[GoColts8818]

We hate them cuz we ain't them?

so I am being told

[ColtsBlueFL]

I don't agree with this entirely, but I want to focus on this statement of yours: "Instead he lied, made a stink, and lawyered up. This rightfully, probably, * the league off and here we are."

 

So in other words, the league determined that a violation of some kind occurred, but they are basing the severity of the punishment on how the accused responds to the accusation? Is that how a professionally run organization should be operating? Shouldn't the discipline be dictated solely by the violation that occurred and not whether the accused is contrite or defiant? If you park your car illegally and your meter maid gives you a ticket, is the fine increased because you took it to court? That's the problem many people have...the discipline is so far over the top that it comes off as personal. I know that feels good to a lot of people because of the team/player involved, but if you step away from that and consider that it could happen to one of your teams/players too, you might start to see why this whole thing smells pretty bad.

 

 

But what you, and many others don't seem to understand.  Brady was punished 4 games because it was felt the impact (Football Deflation) on the competitive balance of the game was similar to a player on PED's. No precedent (Tom is settng that now) for what they ruled McNally did under Toms direction, but closest analog they could determine.

 

The Appeal was upheld because not only was there no new information (that wasn't addressed point for point in Goodell's final ruling) and with the demolishing of the cell phone and denial for McNally or Jastremski to appear, they felt he was still obstructing and a possibly consealing/destroying incriminating evidence. (smoking guns!)

[Moose Of Woe]

Apart from 2006, this has been the best offseason ever.

[Superman]

The officials that measured the balls and knew the actual numbers? The fact is that somebody intentionally provided false information to Mortensen to report...so there's a motive in there for someone connected with the league. I don't really understand how you guys can't see that as a problem for Patriot's fans.

 

A problem for Pats fans? Sure. 

 

That's different from "this is a deliberate attempt by the NFL to frame the Patriots of wrongdoing and suspend their star QB, all to the ire of the owner who has been most supportive of the commissioner over the last 8 years." 

[Moose Of Woe]

A problem for Pats fans? Sure. 

 

That's different from "this is a deliberate attempt by the NFL to frame the Patriots of wrongdoing and suspend their star QB, all to the ire of the owner who has been most supportive of the commissioner over the last 8 years." 

 The NFL is just jealous of their success.

[ColtsBlueFL]

This destroys, absolutely destroys, any argument that the NFL was unbiased.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

Sorry, Goodell apologists ( which is ironic, since you all hated him pre-January ), The NFL is guilty of railroading the Patriots.

Such s nefarious agenda set by Goodell and Co.

 

 

Becasue Pats lawyers blame League Office for leaks but have no proof?  Sounds like what Pats are doing to the league about Brady, except League found enough stuff to paint a picture of guilt.  Pats haven't done that, so this is the Leagues response-

 

 

Who knows what a 'league source' is?  Mail room boy that thought he overheard a secret conversation?  It's clear Jeff Pash denies it was their league office.

[RockThatBlue]

Nope, the NFL wasn't after Brady at all .

http://media.weei.com/device/mobile/a/107870966/mike-kensil-was-the-leak-to-chris-mortensen-7-31-15.htm

Nope, not at all.

An NFL VP deliberately lied to Mortensen, but nope, no witch hunt.

So much for those of you convinced that the NFL didn't lie to fuel outrage.

Yes its all just a big conspiracy.

Look a black helicopter!

[AndreRison]

I find it odd Pats fans are losing their minds about the 11 of 12 tweet, but never bring up the leak that the only under inflated ball was the intercepted ball. It's hypocritical. I also find it odd Tom Brady is ok with the ball boys taking a hit, when he ordered the whole thing.

[RockThatBlue]

Brady never claimed that he likes balls that are under the legal limit. Stop this lying. Brady has said elsewhere that he liked the ball at the low end of the legal limit.

The facts disagree with you (not that I'm surprised)

When Gronk scores -- it was like his eighth touchdown of the year -- he spikes the ball and he deflates the ball. I love that, because I like the DEFLATED ball. But I feel bad for that football, because he puts everything he can into those spikes."

http://www.mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24980832/tom-brady-in-2011-i-like-deflated-footballs

[ColtsBlueFL]

I find it odd Pats fans are losing their minds about the 11 of 12 tweet, but never bring up the leak that the only under inflated ball was the intercepted ball. It's hypocritical. I also find it odd Tom Brady is ok with the ball boys taking a hit, when he ordered the whole thing.

 

Do you know what is really funny?  The 11 out of 12 tweet makes it seem like one was OK, when in fact the twelfth ball never counted because it was the one the Colts intercepted, and measured on the sidelines!  It, too, was well under which sparked Grigson to make the call upstairs.  So really all 12 were!

 

(sarcasm switch on)

**I mad about bad/misinformed tweet!  It was all 12 I tell ya!  All Twelve were underinflated!!**  They are just trying to make Pats look good...   Sheesh!! 

(/sarcasm off)

[PrincetonTiger]

This is a witch hunt on Kensil, where Mort is collateral damage because he was fed inadvertent information very early in the whole scenario.

 

This is the new nature of reporting these time in the information age.  Get it first (not necessarily right).  :-(

Look what happened with the Mets Wednesday

[southwest1]

I am just glad the Pats are working so hard to clear their equipment mangers names since nothing happened and not just trying to stand up for Brady.

Oh wait they are just letting them sit there suspended. I would hope if It was suggested that I did something wrong at my job and my employer felt I had done nothing wrong that they wouldn't just suspend me because someone wanted me suspended and that they would help to clear my name if nothing had happened.

I won't go so far as to say the 2 Patriots equipment managers have been thrown under the bus since I don't routinely walk thru the Gillette Stadium locker room nor do I an intimate knowledge of daily operations there. However, I will admit that having this entire investigation revolve around Tom Brady instead of even mentioning John Jastremski or Jim McNally does a dis service to them in particular. Thanks for reminding me of that vital fact GC8818.

 

I'm not here to blame the organization in question. I just appreciate the reminder that there are more participants here than Mr. Brady. Often times in chaotic situations or circumstances, the little guy gets lost in the shuffle. Let's not lose sight of that. Marquee names get all the attention & that's not always a good thing. 

[crazycolt1]

WELLS TOLD HIM THAT HE DIDNT NEED:WANT HIS PHONE!!!!

Phone = records specific to investigation. Brady did not provide what the investigation wanted in relation to the two equipment men and those specific exchanges of text and or conversations. Brady omitted those in the information provided.

[amfootball]

This destroys, absolutely destroys, any argument that the NFL was unbiased.

http://wellsreportcontext.com/league-failure-to-correct-misinformation/

Sorry, Goodell apologists ( which is ironic, since you all hated him pre-January ), The NFL is guilty of railroading the Patriots.

Such s nefarious agenda set by Goodell and Co.

Good glory, the gloves have come off. I love Kraft.

[amfootball]

Nobody, I mean Nobody wants the courts to Rul at playoff time, with the real threat of Brady having to sit those game(s) out.  Best to get it done early in the year, if that is what eventually happens (suspension upheld)

I think it is more damaging to have the case linger over the season no matter when the ruling comes down. The NY judge has asked for Brady and Goodell to see him Aug 12 and 19 and from there will make a judgment. I can't wait to see the transcripts from those meetings. http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13354322/nfl-nflpa-request-expedited-ruling-tom-brady-suspension

 

BTW, these hearings are OPEN for the media to attend. Awesome. So awesome.

[ViriLudant]

Observations as I head away for the weekend.

1. Am and Viriludant - you guys are working so hard to try to convince the world (aka thisNFL message board) of your point of view. It's really rather amusing and yet incredibly sad. You have no idea how foolish and unbalanced you appear to those who are not living in your heads.

2. I am convinced that you two are so delusional about this that it won't matter what happens in the courts. And the rest of us that are capable of looking at this with dispassionate eyes will not be changed over by your rants. That said, I'm barely keeping up with this post any longer.

3. Most Patriots fans here have not brought any honor on themselves in the way they have responded to this. A few have been balanced and have pretty much not commented much here, we don't think all Patriot's fans are completely off the deep end.

4. NO we are not jealous. We don't waste two seconds "wishing we were you." I only add that because that's the next comeback post in three... two... one...

Says the guy who has contributed nothing to this issue. The NFL squashed the San Diego towel situation because they didn't want to give publicity to the non-sponsor towel maker. Pure and simple .

[ViriLudant]

The facts disagree with you (not that I'm surprised)

When Gronk scores -- it was like his eighth touchdown of the year -- he spikes the ball and he deflates the ball. I love that, because I like the DEFLATED ball. But I feel bad for that football, because he puts everything he can into those spikes."

http://www.mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24980832/tom-brady-in-2011-i-like-deflated-footballs

Tell me, if a spiked ball goes from 13.5 to 13.2, is it deflated ?

[amfootball]

Now for some humor. Rolling Stone has written an article on this saga and its title and subtitle are hilarious.

 

Tom Brady: Sympathy for the Devil

In the wake of 'Deflategate,' turns out all it took was Roger Goodell to make us not hate the man who has it all

 

This is the best excerpt of the piece (please note that I cleaned up the foul language)

 

"Tom Brady is easily one of the most aggressively unsympathetic people imaginable. He dumped an extraordinarily beautiful actress and married arguably the most famous supermodel in the world. His house looks as large as Charles Foster Kane's Xanadu, and it looks as tasteful as Olivia Newton-John's Xanadu. He dreamed of one day of being like his idol – who won four Super Bowls – got the same job as his idol, then won four super Bowls. That's not like dreaming of one day becoming an astronaut and then becoming an astronaut: that's like dreaming of becoming the first male astronaut to be in a reverse * in space, then blasting off into 69 redheaded Soviet cosmonauts in a rocket modeled after your own [expletive]. He could drag a team to a 9-7 record at age 45, and he will beat your team that season. Twice, if yours is the Jets. He models Uggs, for [expletive] sakes. On top of all that, the [expletive] is also good-looking.

Full story here, http://www.rollingstone.com/sports/features/tom-brady-sympathy-for-the-devil-20150731
 

[jabbanobadda]

I think we are just getting trolled by these Pats fans. There is no way that they can be this dillusional about their boys innocence. I remember a time when AM admitted that Brady was guilty...

[dynasty13]

Do you know what is really funny? The 11 out of 12 tweet makes it seem like one was OK, when in fact the twelfth ball never counted because it was the one the Colts intercepted, and measured on the sidelines! It, too, was well under which sparked Grigson to make the call upstairs. So really all 12 were!

(sarcasm switch on)

**I mad about bad/misinformed tweet! It was all 12 I tell ya! All Twelve were underinflated!!** They are just trying to make Pats look good... Sheesh!!

(/sarcasm off)

Is this real life?

[amfootball]

I think a settlement may be likely before Aug 12. I cannot believe that the NFL will actually let Goodell take the stand after he embarrassed himself in the Rice debacle. For sure though get your popcorn ready,

[Cynjin]

Good glory, the gloves have come off. I love Kraft.

 

Yeah, the judge that told both sides to tone down the rhetoric ought to love that.

[ColtRider]

Yes its all just a big conspiracy.

Look a black helicopter!

Bill Belichick media spout : "What plane?" (answer to reporters from Jets' Plane Scroll over Pats TC)

[Bad Morty]

Yeah, the judge that told both sides to tone down the rhetoric ought to love that.

so no thoughts on the actual content of what was released? I mean, if you are one who can readily "put the pieces together" and conclude that a guy going into a bathroom with footballs = a major cheating scandal headed up by Brady, then this should be even easier math here...it's pretty obvious the league engaged in a deliberate misinformation campaign against one of its own franchises, which calls into serious question their objectivity.

[dw49]

I think a settlement may be likely before Aug 12. I cannot believe that the NFL will actually let Goodell take the stand after he embarrassed himself in the Rice debacle. For sure though get your popcorn ready,

 

 

Not for nothing AM but I think you'll be eating popcorn during the whole first round of the 2016 draft and at least the first two games of 2015 with no Brady. 

[dw49]

so no thoughts on the actual content of what was released? I mean, if you are one who can readily "put the pieces together" and conclude that a guy going into a bathroom with footballs = a major cheating scandal headed up by Brady, then this should be even easier math here...it's pretty obvious the league engaged in a deliberate misinformation campaign against one of its own franchises, which calls into serious question their objectivity.

 

 

You poor .......

[Bad Morty]

Yeah, the judge that told both sides to tone down the rhetoric ought to love that.

And by the way...the Judge told both sides to tone it down...i.e. Brady and Goodell. The Patriots organization isn't involved in the court case.