Would you be okay with trading our 2016 first pick to move to top of the 2nd?

[horseshoeblue22]

I know a lot of people are hating on the Dorsett pick, screaming for defensive players. Looking at the players still available, there are a lot of good defensive players still available. Would you be happy if Grigson and the guys traded our top pick next year to move into the top 5-10 picks of the second round tomorrow night? The trade I am proposing is something like this:

 

Indy trades 1st Round Pick (2016) and 4th Round Pick (2015) for a top 40 selection.

 

We could still go get a Landon Collins, Eddie Goldman, Carl Davis, Denzel Perryman, Eric Kendricks, Jordan Phillips type defender with that top 40 selection.

 

We could then use pick 61 to double up, drafting a second guy from that list or a guy like DE Henry Anderson out of Stanford.

 

An extra first in next years draft could be very appealing for a bottom-feeder team looking for currency to get the next great QB or whatever players they are looking at in next year's group.

 

Would a trade like this make the Dorsett pick look better or worse?

[BProland85]

No cause it'd probably be for a TE or something else we don't really need.

[Grigs build the lines plz.]

We wouldn't have to move up if Grigs didn't blow the first pick.

Why waste cap space on Johnson if he was going to pick

a receiver in the first round???

[21isSuperman]

No.  I don't like giving up future first round picks.

[horseshoeblue22]

No cause it'd probably be for a TE or something else we don't really need.

 

I think I strongly implied that the trade would be for a defender with a first round grade. We could go defenders with both 2nd round picks, and again in the 3rd...and still end up with a very strong defensive draft. Nobody looked at the Jonathan Newsome pick in the 5th round last year and said "Oh boy, that guy is going to get more sacks in his rookie season then any of the guys drafted before him..."

 

Could we get a safety better then Landon Collins in the 1st next year?

Could we get a defensive lineman better then Goldman, Davis or Phillips in the 1st next year?

What about an inside linebacker more talented then Perryman or Kendricks?

What about a cornerback better then Jalen Collins?

 

Is there going to be a better WR prospect (available where we pick) better then Phillip Dorsett is now?

 

If we got a first round grade on any of these guys, take them now...who knows what could be available to us this time next year. 

[BlueShoe]

No. I do not want to give away a first rounder next year.

[Bravo]

Wouldn't matter. Grigson has no idea how to use first round draft picks....

[TrueBlue12]

No. I don't think this year's draft is very talented as far as drafts go.

[Bluefire4]

He wouldn't have had to if he made the right decision.

[horseshoeblue22]

So let me get this straight...everyone wanted a guy like Goldman or Landon Collins at 29. All the mock drafts picking one of these guys or a similar defender. So if these guys were the "right decision" at 29, why isn't it the "right decision" to pick one of them with next year's first round pick?

 

A guy with a first round grade is a guy worth a first rounder, if it is this year or next year. There is obvious value in adding that guy now, getting him in training camp and getting that experience a year early. If we could trade up to, say 34 or 35, and pick Landon Collins...there would be great value in that deal. Landon Collins going into his second year will be more valuable then any rookie safety we could add in next years draft.

 

If Collins and Goldman were "worth" the pick at 29, why in the world would they not be worth it at picks 34-40?

 

Too many people are complaining just to complain, it seems. Dorsett is an asset to our team.

 

Put it this way. If there was one player on this team we could make a "clone" or "carbon copy" of at 22 years old and on a rookie deal...it would be Andrew Luck, TY Hilton and Vontae Davis. There were no Andrew Lucks on the board, no Vontae Davises. We got another TY Hilton...a guy who just put up a 1,300 yard season. Two is better then one.

[Holden89]

Well, out of boredom and to keep myself sane, I did another mock draft thingy on first-pick.  Here's how it went:

 

Your Picks:

Round 1 Pick 29: Phillip Dorsett, WR, Miami (Fla.) (B+)

Round 2 Pick 4 (JAX): Landon Collins, SS, Alabama (A+)

Round 2 Pick 29: Michael Bennet, DT, Ohio State (A-)

Round 3 Pick 29: Doran Grant, CB, Ohio State (A)

 

I stopped there because, admittedly, my knowledge of prospects doesn't run much deeper than the 3rd/4th round.  I traded our 2016 1st, and our 5th round pick for the Jags 2nd rounder and their 4th.

[ProblChld32]

Absolutely not. How has trading our 1st in the past helped us out? 

[horseshoeblue22]

Absolutely not. How has trading our 1st in the past helped us out? 

 

I am not proposing that we trade our first round pick to get Trent Richardson back, so I don't see how this is relevant.

 

Totally different situation, different players, etc.

 

If Grigson likes Landon Collins as much as he seemed to when he was gushing about him non-stop in the pre-draft process...then I don't see why this trade wouldn't make sense. Getting a top-caliber safety now is going to be cheaper ($$$) then getting one late in the first round next year. Why wait til next year to add a player like that, when you could get him now, a year earlier? His development over the course of his rookie season would far outweigh any talent differences.

 

Come 2016, we could have a young safety with a year already under his belt at a 2nd round price tag, or we could hope and prey there is a safety we like as much as we like Collins now.

 

Unless Luck tears his ACL and our team drops into the crapper, finishing with a 4-12 record...I don't see how this type of move could backfire. I don't see ANYONE predicting a top-ten pick for the Colts next off-season. If Landon is your guy, go get him now.

[bavanlan]

So let me get this straight...everyone wanted a guy like Goldman or Landon Collins at 29. All the mock drafts picking one of these guys or a similar defender. So if these guys were the "right decision" at 29, why isn't it the "right decision" to pick one of them with next year's first round pick?

A guy with a first round grade is a guy worth a first rounder, if it is this year or next year. There is obvious value in adding that guy now, getting him in training camp and getting that experience a year early. If we could trade up to, say 34 or 35, and pick Landon Collins...there would be great value in that deal. Landon Collins going into his second year will be more valuable then any rookie safety we could add in next years draft.

If Collins and Goldman were "worth" the pick at 29, why in the world would they not be worth it at picks 34-40?

Too many people are complaining just to complain, it seems. Dorsett is an asset to our team.

Put it this way. If there was one player on this team we could make a "clone" or "carbon copy" of at 22 years old and on a rookie deal...it would be Andrew Luck, TY Hilton and Vontae Davis. There were no Andrew Lucks on the board, no Vontae Davises. We got another TY Hilton...a guy who just put up a 1,300 yard season. Two is better then one.

You are awesome.

[IndyD4U]

Absolutely not.

[mattceinicram]

No, we can't waste more first rounders.

[Mitch]

Nope. The talent in next year's draft is more plentiful than this year's.

[NewColtsFan]

No!

 

Heck, no!!

[peytonmanning18]

Wouldn't matter. Grigson has no idea how to use first round draft picks....

You have no clue about football

[pgt_rob]

No sir!

[ruksak]

Our 1st round pick wouldn't have as much value as many other teams because we're awesome....so I doubt there'd be any takers. 

 

However, I would be all for using a 2016 pick (post-1st round) to finagle something high in the 2nd in 2015 if combined with later round 2015 picks.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

I am not proposing that we trade our first round pick to get Trent Richardson back, so I don't see how this is relevant.

 

Totally different situation, different players, etc.

 

If Grigson likes Landon Collins as much as he seemed to when he was gushing about him non-stop in the pre-draft process...then I don't see why this trade wouldn't make sense. Getting a top-caliber safety now is going to be cheaper ($$$) then getting one late in the first round next year. Why wait til next year to add a player like that, when you could get him now, a year earlier? His development over the course of his rookie season would far outweigh any talent differences.

 

Come 2016, we could have a young safety with a year already under his belt at a 2nd round price tag, or we could hope and prey there is a safety we like as much as we like Collins now.

 

Unless Luck tears his ACL and our team drops into the crapper, finishing with a 4-12 record...I don't see how this type of move could backfire. I don't see ANYONE predicting a top-ten pick for the Colts next off-season. If Landon is your guy, go get him now.

 

We don't like that uppity, sensible talk around these parts. This forum is for the disgruntled.

[horseshoeblue22]

To all the users saying no, saying that this is a terrible idea, etc.

 

Are you the same posters that are crying and complaining that we didn't select a guy like Collins or Goldman or some defensive guy over Phillip Dorsett?

 

Picks now are worth more then picks later. I think most people would agree with that. If we trade our pick for high-second (a guy "worth" a hypothetical first-round pick) then I don't see how it makes a difference long term.

 

1 "First Round guy" in 2015 and 1 "First Round guy" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

2 "First Round guys" in 2015 and 0 "First Round guys" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

It's the same difference. 

 

Unless you are suggesting that the defenders available at the top of round 2 are NOT guys with first round grades. In that case, why are we still criticizing Grigson and the guys for passing on them for a WR with a clear first round grade on their board?

[stumpfcm]

To all the users saying no, saying that this is a terrible idea, etc.

Are you the same posters that are crying and complaining that we didn't select a guy like Collins or Goldman or some defensive guy over Phillip Dorsett?

Picks now are worth more then picks later. I think most people would agree with that. If we trade our pick for high-second (a guy "worth" a hypothetical first-round pick) then I don't see how it makes a difference long term.

1 "First Round guy" in 2015 and 1 "First Round guy" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

2 "First Round guys" in 2015 and 0 "First Round guys" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

It's the same difference.

Unless you are suggesting that the defenders available at the top of round 2 are NOT guys with first round grades. In that case, why are we still criticizing Grigson and the guys for passing on them for a WR with a clear first round grade on their board?

This is exactly right!

[ruksak]

To all the users saying no, saying that this is a terrible idea, etc.

 

Are you the same posters that are crying and complaining that we didn't select a guy like Collins or Goldman or some defensive guy over Phillip Dorsett?

 

Picks now are worth more then picks later. I think most people would agree with that. If we trade our pick for high-second (a guy "worth" a hypothetical first-round pick) then I don't see how it makes a difference long term.

 

1 "First Round guy" in 2015 and 1 "First Round guy" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

2 "First Round guys" in 2015 and 0 "First Round guys" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

It's the same difference. 

 

Unless you are suggesting that the defenders available at the top of round 2 are NOT guys with first round grades. In that case, why are we still criticizing Grigson and the guys for passing on them for a WR with a clear first round grade on their board?

The only validity to your proposition, and something you should probably term this as is; There's a distinct feeling that we're in "WIN NOW" mode.

 

Meaning; 2011 is buried in the past, our new franchise QB has fully acclimated. The team and staff has gelled and, frankly, jobs are going to be on the line if we don't see some ability to challenge AFC powerhouses like NE. 

[azcolt]

This trade would make sense if we could draft a great talent like Tony Ugoh at the top of the second round.

[austriancolt]

I think a guy like Goldman, Phillips or Kendricks would be worth it

[Superman]

Unless you are suggesting that the defenders available at the top of round 2 are NOT guys with first round grades. In that case, why are we still criticizing Grigson and the guys for passing on them for a WR with a clear first round grade on their board?

 

[horseshoeblue22]

The only validity to your proposition, and something you should probably term this as is; There's a distinct feeling that we're in "WIN NOW" mode.

 

Meaning; 2011 is buried in the past, our new franchise QB has fully acclimated. The team and staff has gelled and, frankly, jobs are going to be on the line if we don't see some ability to challenge AFC powerhouses like NE. 

 

I never said we SHOULD make this trade. I asked this question hypothetically to all the people saying we should have chose a defender at pick #29.

 

My point is this: If the defenders currently available aren't worth our first pick next year, then they were never worth our first pick this year either.

 

Its like saying "I'll give you 15 bucks for that CD today, but I won't give you 15 bucks for that CD tomorrow." (because I may hypothetically find something more valuable for that $15.) If it's not worth 15 bucks tomorrow, then it isn't worth 15 bucks now, and it wasn't worth 15 bucks yesterday. We spent our 15 bucks on Phillip Dorsett, like it or not.

 

--

 

Jobs being on the line at the end of the season is all the more reason to trade away that pick now, get another "first round grade" now, and worry about next year when next year comes around.

 

If Grigson and Pagano are no longer members of our organization next season, what do they care if the Colts own a first round selection or not?

[ColtStronger]

I know a lot of people are hating on the Dorsett pick, screaming for defensive players. Looking at the players still available, there are a lot of good defensive players still available. Would you be happy if Grigson and the guys traded our top pick next year to move into the top 5-10 picks of the second round tomorrow night? The trade I am proposing is something like this:

 

Indy trades 1st Round Pick (2016) and 4th Round Pick (2015) for a top 40 selection.

 

We could still go get a Landon Collins, Eddie Goldman, Carl Davis, Denzel Perryman, Eric Kendricks, Jordan Phillips type defender with that top 40 selection.

 

We could then use pick 61 to double up, drafting a second guy from that list or a guy like DE Henry Anderson out of Stanford.

 

An extra first in next years draft could be very appealing for a bottom-feeder team looking for currency to get the next great QB or whatever players they are looking at in next year's group.

 

Would a trade like this make the Dorsett pick look better or worse?

The only thing that could make this pick look good is that AJ leaves this year and TY is money hungry and we cant resign him.  THEN Dorsett comes in the following year and is JUST AS GOOD or better than TY. 

 

Or if somebody gets injured and he gets an opportunity and puts everybody in awe.  Im talking TY going down, Dorsett stepping in having multiple 100+ yard games with multiple TD's.

 

However, banking on one of those situations is like me waking up and saying "I'm going to play the lottery" (I have never bought a lottery ticket), then me winning 50 Million!  (okay, the comparision is a little off, but you get the point).  Were playing with "what if" scenarios here.

 

If it doesn't happen I would much rather have an average player be #1 like Werner, and still have him contribute a little bit. 

 

As it stands now, the worst picks Grigson has wasted:

1. 1st rounder with Richardson (Yes, I even like Trent, just never thought Indy's line or scheme was good for him)

2.  Dorsett

3.  Werner

 

Yes, I just put Dorsett in that same category, because it is wasted talent, not because of his ability, but a lack of usage!

[ColtStronger]

Wouldn't matter. Grigson has no idea how to use first round draft picks....

DING DING DING!!  You're correct, please BOB tell him what he's won!

[ruksak]

If Grigson and Pagano are no longer members of our organization next season, what do they care if the Colts own a first round selection or not?

That's why owners act as a stop-gap to prevent GM's and coaches from going all in and mortgaging the franchises future so they can "win now". 

 

Too bad Tom Benson didn't step in when Ditka sold out the Saints future for Ricky Williams, a great example of why owners step in when they may feel their front office is making decisions for the sake of their careers over the best interest of the franchise. 

[Dustin]

To all the users saying no, saying that this is a terrible idea, etc.

 

Are you the same posters that are crying and complaining that we didn't select a guy like Collins or Goldman or some defensive guy over Phillip Dorsett?

 

Picks now are worth more then picks later. I think most people would agree with that. If we trade our pick for high-second (a guy "worth" a hypothetical first-round pick) then I don't see how it makes a difference long term.

 

1 "First Round guy" in 2015 and 1 "First Round guy" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

2 "First Round guys" in 2015 and 0 "First Round guys" in 2016 = 2 first round picks.

 

It's the same difference. 

 

Unless you are suggesting that the defenders available at the top of round 2 are NOT guys with first round grades. In that case, why are we still criticizing Grigson and the guys for passing on them for a WR with a clear first round grade on their board?

 

You're leaving out that we'd not have a 5th year for the player we drafted in this scenario. That's my hang up. 

[Superman]

Jobs being on the line at the end of the season is all the more reason to trade away that pick now, get another "first round grade" now, and worry about next year when next year comes around.

 

If Grigson and Pagano are no longer members of our organization next season, what do they care if the Colts own a first round selection or not?

 

Irsay holds the purse strings when it comes to first round picks. If either of those two guys are actually risks to leave, especially Grigson, I don't think Irsay would let them give up future first rounders.

[horseshoeblue22]

You're leaving out that we'd not have a 5th year for the player we drafted in this scenario. That's my hang up. 

 

That makes some sense, but a slotted 2nd round salary is less then a slotted 1st round salary for the first four years. We wouldn't have a 5th year option, but the 5th year option is essentially the franchise tag anyhow. If that guy is worth franchise tag money, just give him the tag for year 5 and try to get an extension from there.

 

At that point you are projecting a hypothetical player's value 4 or 5 years down the road. We have no idea what our roster will ultimately look like 4 or 5 years down the road, or our front office for that matter. If you are sold on Goldman, Collins or hypothetical defender A, and he's sitting there at the top of round 2...you have to make that trade.

 

If you say "No way he's worth our first next year." then he simply isn't worth our first round pick this year either.

 

Current assets are always "worth more" then future assets.

 

Banks around the world agree with this, hence why "interest" is charged any time you take a loan out.

[jmac_48]

Wouldn't give a first, but would give a second in '16 and this years 6th and 7th and a case of single malt to move into Tampa's second this year. And keep our second this year too!

[Warhorse]

Most will never be happy with any pick.....ever.....so asking might get you some livid responses. 

 

Even when we drafted Luck....there was dissension because we didn't keep Manning. Edge over Williams? The front office was roasted. Trade up for TY? This is no longer about football discussion, its about venting....and it gets worse every season. 

[Bravo]

You have no clue about football

What's this thing "football" that you speak of!?

[Bravo]

DING DING DING!! You're correct, please BOB tell him what he's won!

Hope it's a new Colts first round pick!

[Superman]

You're leaving out that we'd not have a 5th year for the player we drafted in this scenario. That's my hang up. 

 

That's a legit point. 

 

In a perfect world, we'd extend our guys a year early and the 5th year option isn't even an issue. We have no precedent with Grigson, so I can't really project. His first draft class just finished Year 3. There's hardly any precedent around the league, since this is only the fifth year of the CBA. But there's Patrick Peterson, JJ Watt, Tyron Smith, Robert Quinn, etc., who signed extensions before finishing Year 4. So it's undetermined how valuable the 5th year option really is at this point. It's probably more valuable in the second half of the first round.