Patriots being investigated for Deflating footballs.....(Mega Merge)

[coltslover10]

What would have happened if they were wrongly accused ?

[ElMaestro]

Well, that may be so.  I had assumed maybe too much.

 

That does not change the fact that by definition, any player who holds another player is "cheating", because it is a violation of the rules. 

This was pre-planned with an intent to over ride every single internal control in place to prevent this from happening.  

 

Comparing this incident with a simple holding penalty is insane.  

[dw49]

His tweet was ridiculous ...

 

 

K... ridiculous tweet by Brown. I agree. Now how about you address what I heard Tom Brady say to the radio station when asked about this ?

[mintor]

 

 what, if any, punishment the Patriots and head coach Bill Belichick should receive.

If the NFL does decide punishment is needed, the league can do pretty much whatever it wants to the Patriots, according to the NFL Rule Book.If the Patriots did indeed intentionally deflate the footballs, "Deflategate" could fall under the category of "Unfair Acts," which is defined by the NFL Rule Book as "any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency [that] occurs in an NFL game which [the commissioner] deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game."

The penalties for Unfair Acts appear to be unlimited and range from a minimum of fines, suspensions, and lost draft picks, all the way to giving commissioner Roger Goodell the power to replay the game or even rule it a forfeit

 

 think should do something 

[OffensivelyPC]

Well that's even worse isn't it?  There is more pounds of pressure (air) in the football than the weight of the football itself isn't there? 

I have no clue.  I'm many years out of practice in my physics.  My response to derakynn was about the weather and how the footballs deflated because of the air temperature outside of the football.  If the patriots footballs deflated because of the weather, then it stands to reason that the Colts footballs would have also deflated.  So if you measured them both and the Patriots footballs were 2 PSI less than the required levels and the Cotls were within the required parameters, then clearly the weather did not have the drastic effect suggested by some defending the Patriots intentionally deflating the football.

[dw49]

for an object with an air tight seal, yes.

 

a football is not remotely close to being air tight.

 And they all lost the same 2LBs of pressure. LOL

 

 One didn't lose a lb .. another a LB 1/4 .. another a LB 5/8 the. All lost that same 2 lbs ? Think maybe that 2 lb deflation is pretty close to how Brady likes them ? 

[ElMaestro]

Regarding the punishment, I think it all depends on what was known, by whom was it known and when was it known.  

 

If the directive came down from BB and he knowingly violated certain rules and successfully over rode every single internal control in place to prevent such an act, he should be fined (the max amount - $500,000 again?), suspended for a certain amount of games, and they should lose draft picks.  

 

They will never prove that though.  Ever.  

 

Always have your underlings do the dirty work, and don't ever get your hands dirty.  

[Dan'l Boom]

This was pre-planned with an intent to over ride every single internal control in place to prevent this from happening.  

 

Comparing this incident with a simple holding penalty is insane.  

Why?  Some players habitually hold, commit pass interference.  Grab a face mask.  Where do we draw the line? 

 

By the way, the reason they have officials rather than play on the "honor system" is due to human nature.  To pretend that one team is cheating while the others are lilly white is pretty insane. 

 

This is no more severe than any other rules infraction, and it is less severe than intentionally hurting or attempting to hurt/maim/injure an opponent.

[DougDew]

If DQ was indeed the one who started this by noticing the ball, he's earned his pay for the year, IMO.

 

He probably won't admit it if he did.

 

I also like Grigs assertive attitude in calling the league during the game. I kind of like the message it sends....go cheat against other teams, not around here.

[That Guy]

 And they all lost the same 2LBs of pressure. LOL

 

 One didn't lose a lb .. another a LB 1/4 .. another a LB 5/8 the. All lost that same 2 lbs ? Think maybe that 2 lb deflation is pretty close to how Brady likes them ? 

 

And one ball still inflated for the kickoffs, punts, and field goals...

[BlacknGold77]

Funny that the colts balls checked out

 

source? link?

[jvan1973]

And one ball still inflated for the kickoffs, punts, and field goals...

no, the K balls are handled by the refs alone

[dw49]

And one ball still inflated for the kickoffs, punts, and field goals...

 

 

Never thought of that one... shame on me. I wonder if they marked that one to make sure they didn't mix the balls up ? Probably had a big red X on it.

[bababooey]

Regarding the punishment, I think it all depends on what was known, by whom was it known and when was it known.  

 

If the directive came down from BB and he knowingly violated certain rules and successfully over rode every single internal control in place to prevent such an act, he should be fined (the max amount - $500,000 again?), suspended for a certain amount of games, and they should lose draft picks.  

 

They will never prove that though.  Ever.  

 

Always have your underlings do the dirty work, and don't ever get your hands dirty.  

True, they will pin it on a rogue ball boy and fire him but the writing on the wall is there, if apparently they have been doing this for multiple games you can't say Brady and Stork as well as the others who handle the ball didn't know. Either way, they will get BB under the "ignorance is not an excuse" excuse that got Payton but somehow shielded Goodell during the rice case.

[Cynjin]

source? link?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/source-footballs-were-properly-checked-before-colts-patriots-game/

[crazycolt1]

Here's the thing...and trust me I'm not justifying anything please dont mistake my comments for such....but this rule and the breaking of it is nothing more than a speeding ticket. Even the way it is written makes it seem incredibly insignificant. 

 

Especially now hearing all the comments coming from former AND current players about what other stuff goes on and what they used to do with balls...I am honestly convinced that if this wasn't the New England Patriots, there would be 0% national outrage. This is going to spiral and become a 'victory lap' for everyone who hates the Patriots and perhaps that's well deserved...but lets be real here for a second, THIS is not what has made the Patriots so successful over the years.

Always deflecting anything to other teams. That is something most Patriot fans have adapted well to.

[dw49]

Never thought of that one... shame on me. I wonder if they marked that one to make sure they didn't mix the balls up ? Probably had a big red X on it.

 

 

Sorry didn't see Ivan's post. I guess maybe the "s caught on that they were being monitored after the first 11 balls were removed ?

[Dustin]

And one ball still inflated for the kickoffs, punts, and field goals...

 

More than likely a Colts ball and Patriots ball got mixed up. 

[ElMaestro]

Why?  Some players habitually hold, commit pass interference.  Grab a face mask.  Where do we draw the line? 

 

By the way, the reason they have officials rather than play on the "honor system" is due to human nature.  To pretend that one team is cheating while the others are lilly white is pretty insane. 

 

This is no more severe than any other rules infraction, and it is less severe than intentionally hurting or attempting to hurt/maim/injure an opponent.

For the same reason premeditated murder carries a harsher sentence than manslaughter.  

[RockThatBlue]

People are trying to figure out why Colts fans are so mad about this. It's not because it changed the outcome of the game, it's because from the start, the Colts were at an illegal disadvantage. The Colts could have played the game of their lives and it might not have mattered because the Patriots decided to cheat.

Agree. The game basically started out invalid.

[PrincetonTiger]

Never thought of that one... shame on me. I wonder if they marked that one to make sure they didn't mix the balls up ? Probably had a big red X on it.

Not sure how it is done in the NFL but in High School the Kicking Balls have some form marking(K, X, etc.)

[18Manning]

Why?  Some players habitually hold, commit pass interference.  Grab a face mask.  Where do we draw the line? 

 

By the way, the reason they have officials rather than play on the "honor system" is due to human nature.  To pretend that one team is cheating while the others are lilly white is pretty insane. 

 

This is no more severe than any other rules infraction, and it is less severe than intentionally hurting or attempting to hurt/maim/injure an opponent.

 

Ridiculous comparison. I won't even go into aguring how ridiculous as it would be a waste of time.

[bababooey]

Agree. The game basically started out invalid.

In addition to the game in November, that could also be invalid and if we had won that game would have had home field for the playoffs due to tiebreaker.

[dw49]

Regarding the punishment, I think it all depends on what was known, by whom was it known and when was it known.  

 

If the directive came down from BB and he knowingly violated certain rules and successfully over rode every single internal control in place to prevent such an act, he should be fined (the max amount - $500,000 again?), suspended for a certain amount of games, and they should lose draft picks.  

 

They will never prove that though.  Ever.  

 

Always have your underlings do the dirty work, and don't ever get your hands dirty.  

 

 

The fact that al the balls are exactly deflated by 2 lbs pretty much proves there was tampering. If it was due to weather or any other conditions , there would be varying degrees of deflation. They may never prove who was directly responsible for this but they have enough proof that there was tampering.

[PrincetonTiger]

The fact that al the balls are exactly deflated by 2 lbs pretty much proves there was tampering. If it was due to weather or any other conditions , there would be varying degrees of deflation. They may never prove who was directly responsible for this but they have enough proof that there was tampering.

and the Colts Ball would show deflation

[pacolts56]

I eagerly await the Rodgers is a cheater thread. Not holding my breath though.

Well...he's gently rowing down the loser stream so the lack of uproar, although somewhat hypocritical, is understandable given the pre-SB hype.

If Goodell slaps him then he deserves it if he intentionally tried to skirt the rule.

But for now....your boys got center stage.

[ElMaestro]

The fact that al the balls are exactly deflated by 2 lbs pretty much proves there was tampering. If it was due to weather or any other conditions , there would be varying degrees of deflation. They may never prove who was directly responsible for this but they have enough proof that there was tampering.

I agree entirely.  It just won't be BB falling on his sword for the team.  

[dw49]

I have no clue.  I'm many years out of practice in my physics.  My response to derakynn was about the weather and how the footballs deflated because of the air temperature outside of the football.  If the patriots footballs deflated because of the weather, then it stands to reason that the Colts footballs would have also deflated.  So if you measured them both and the Patriots footballs were 2 PSI less than the required levels and the Cotls were within the required parameters, then clearly the weather did not have the drastic effect suggested by some defending the Patriots intentionally deflating the football.

 

 

It's obvious tampering . Impossible for all 11 balls to be deflated by the same 2 LBS

[bababooey]

if anyone cares, Mike Francesa is crushing the Pats and the NFL right now

 

http://betaplayer.radio.com/player/sports-radio-66-wfan-ny

[dw49]

I agree entirely.  It just won't be BB falling on his sword for the team.  

 

 

We already saw this story at Southern Cal .The lowest guy on the totem pole is going to get a bag of cash and take the fall. They NFL should prosecute what ever stooge they make take the fall and maybe he'll crack ?

[PeterBowman]

if anyone cares, Mike Francesa is crushing the Pats and the NFL right now

 

http://betaplayer.radio.com/player/sports-radio-66-wfan-ny

I'm at work...what's he saying?

[dw49]

and the Colts Ball would show deflation

 

I left that out as I really never saw credible evidence that happened. But yeah .. you're correct.

[Narcosys]

Just thought about this. Now we know why macafees' punts were so horrible.

[HOZER]

I love the victim card a lot of these pats fans are trying to pull, give me a break!!!! Your team has a known track record of cheating, and they got caught, again! Oh, but all the winning since then proves how insignificant spygate was, bahahaha, tell me another one. How much more cheating have they gotten away with since then? As Belichick is proving.....once a cheater, always a cheater. And don't try to tell me Brady didn't have anything to do with this! Don't get me started on the whole eligible/ineligible receiver thing, btw didn't they get a flag during the game for trying to pull a fast one on the officials due to someone not claiming ineligible? lol

So the colts got thier butts whooped, the deflated balls may or may not have made a difference, who knows for sure, but as we have all seen, dropped passes, fumbles, and incomplete passes can def change a games momentum. If it's not a huge advantage, why do it? What if game had been closer? Like the Ravens game?

I offended some Pats fans prior to the game when I brought up spygate and the * after someone posted that the pats were a "model franchise" and was told you don't know anything about spygateblah blah blah they didn't cheat, yet here we are again, caught cheating. So here you go, add this to your "model franchise"

SPYGATE *

2015 AFC CHAMPIONS *

[BrownianMotion]

Interesting fact: the issue was rectified at the beginning of the 2nd half. The Pats scored 17 points in the first half and 28 in the 2nd half when they were playing with properly inflated balls. So there was absolutely no advantage. In fact, they played worse with under-inflated balls. Point differential may very well have been even greater had they played with properly inflated balls all game long.

 

Also, Rodgers has stated that he likes to push the boundaries in regards to over-inflating his team's balls. And the Buccaneers did something similar during their SB win. So did the Vikings:

 

http://blog.masslive.com/patriots/2015/01/green_bay_minnesota_tampa_bay.html

 

This is a league wide issue. Many teams have done and continue to do this. It's simply personal preference. Some teams like under-inflation, some like over-inflation. They all push the boundaries.

 

This is a non issue.

[OffensivelyPC]

It's obvious tampering . Impossible for all 11 balls to be deflated by the same 2 LBS

I agree with that.  I was just adding another layer of arguments on top of it, which is basically what PT said below. 

 

and the Colts Ball would show deflation

[House]

Why? Some players habitually hold, commit pass interference. Grab a face mask. Where do we draw the line?

By the way, the reason they have officials rather than play on the "honor system" is due to human nature. To pretend that one team is cheating while the others are lilly white is pretty insane.

This is no more severe than any other rules infraction, and it is less severe than intentionally hurting or attempting to hurt/maim/injure an opponent.

What's the difference between manslaughter and murder?

[ColtsBlueFL]

I've been driving and listening to multiple stations, and people/guests all morning.  Many interesting things have come to light I'll recap here in one post (haven't read all posts her so maybe it was coverd by previous, but not likely all these items.

 

1. Colts were already suspicious.  On an interception of the Pats by Mike Adams in Nov, a Colts equipment manger noticed the ball at reduced pressure back then!  So when DQ intercepted, it was checked by equipment guy immediately.  That's when Coach Pagano and Grigson were informed, then the league was informed.

 

2. Every ball, Colts and Patriots, were tested for air pressure 2 hours and 15 minutes before the game.  Every one was determined to be at 13 psis +/- .5 psi.  This is totally acceptable.

 

3. At halftime, all balls we rechecked, and all Colts balls were within spec.  11 of the 12 Patriots balls were 2 lbs below minimum.  That means 11 Patriots balls at 10.5 psi

 

4. All out of compliance ball should have been brought back up to spec at halftime when they were found to be flawed.

 

5. This isn't about whether the Colts could have won the game or not, this is about integrity of the game.  Baseball is dead serious about such matters (IE: Pete Rose, the hit king). We'll see how serious the NFL is about maintaining any integrity in their sport.

 

6. Somebody is accountable if all allegations prove true, and it can't be the pimply faced kid toting around the ball bag.

[Dustin]

In addition to the game in November, that could also be invalid and if we had won that game would have had home field for the playoffs due to tiebreaker.

 

That's the real kicker here. That game was a once score game in the 4th quarter. 

[Superman]

Is this before or after Goodell showed the tapes on loop to the media during the Spygate presser?  There was no cover up.

 

This is what I am talking about when I mention that only fools go on about Spygate, because the VAST majority of people have no clue what actually happened.

 

Did you miss something? Because my point in that post is that just because people say something doesn't mean it's true. Completely separate from the fact -- established, verified, and indisputable -- that the Patriots were caught cheating with Spygate. And apparently, they've been caught cheating again.

 

What you're doing is the common defense mechanism among Pats fans when Spygate gets brought up. You try to reduce this to the minutiae so you can argue that a) Spygate wasn't that big of a deal, and b) people have exaggerated about it's seriousness. And none of that changes the fact -- established, verified, and indisputable -- that the Patriots were caught cheating.