Adongo at 282!

[ztboiler]

Well I stand corrected by the expert .Not ! Its the team not individuals,Are you saying the talent isn't here  ?I say it is if used proper. 

As for your prelude, if you don't want to discuss football, then just say so and I won't let it happen again.  

 

As to your question.  Yes, I am saying that the talent is very unlikely to be here today for us to experience anything akin to a dominant defense.  I like our progress, and love our players, but we're short a few difference-makers to be any better than a top 10 defense.  It's OK to like who we are today while acknowledging our limitations.

[Smonroe]

As for your prelude, if you don't want to discuss football, then just say so and I won't let it happen again.  

 

As to your question.  Yes, I am saying that the talent is very unlikely to be here today for us to experience anything akin to a dominant defense.  I like our progress, and love our players, but we're short a few difference-makers to be any better than a top 10 defense.  It's OK to like who we are today while acknowledging our limitations.

I'd take Top 10 in a heartbeat. With our offense, that's more than we need to win it all.

[MacDee1975]

That's great.

 

Can he play football?

[Nadine]

Excited to see what Adongo can do!

[ColtsLegacy]

58 and Adongo behind coaches is same person, Different haircut

No, they aren't. Not even close.

Edit: I'm late to the party. Nothing to see here. Move along, please.

[ztboiler]

I'd take Top 10 in a heartbeat. With our offense, that's more than we need to win it all.

Very much agree and we are ready.  Solid pieces added in DQ Jax and Art Jones, along with buoyancy of production increases from existing players equate to a real shot at being a top 10 unit in my book.  

 

We've done this the right way.  You can't become dominant as a D thru free agency, you have to do that organically - but you can become solid and I think we have.

 

There is no reason not to feel like this is a Superbowl contending team, especially after Mathis returns and gets 15+ sacks in 12 games.

[BrentMc11]

Just keep ordering the diet cokes.

5 Big Macs and a Diet Coke

[BrentMc11]

As for your prelude, if you don't want to discuss football, then just say so and I won't let it happen again.  

 

As to your question.  Yes, I am saying that the talent is very unlikely to be here today for us to experience anything akin to a dominant defense.  I like our progress, and love our players, but we're short a few difference-makers to be any better than a top 10 defense.  It's OK to like who we are today while acknowledging our limitations.

If healthy, I feel we can be.  Healthy is the key word.

 

I would love to see the absolutely dominant defensive team that played the San Francisco 49ers last year...we were healthy.  Our front seven should be much improved...making the DBs better...just the old LB's opinion ZtB.

[ztboiler]

If healthy, I fee we can be.  Healthy is the key word.

 

I would love to see the absolutely dominant defensive team that played the San Francisco 49ers last year...we were healthy.  Our front seven should be much improved...making the DBs better...just the old LB's opinion ZtB.

Good point of reference.  From my perspective, in the SF game, we were playing like a Top 10 D that was having a good day.  Part of that good day was a function of a good plan for where Kaepernick was in his development coupled to his limited weapons - and the period of adjustment that SF had to go through early last year.  Had SF stuck with the run in the first half, it might have been a different game.

 

We had other gliimpses of Top 10 D, like the Denver game (1st half borderline dominant), and we saw plenty from our D last year overall that should make us feel like a Top 10 D is realistic this season after continued improvement.

 

Health is always a variable - indeed - but we weren't dominant last year when healthy.  We need to sustain that success, run the ball, and we'll be good enough with 12 under center.  Dominant D will cost too much to sustain anyway....just ask Seattle as the bills roll in.

[BrentMc11]

Good point of reference.  From my perspective, in the SF game, we were playing like a Top 10 D that was having a good day.  Part of that good day was a function of a good plan for where Kaepernick was in his development coupled to his limited weapons - and the period of adjustment that SF had to go through early last year.  Had SF stuck with the run in the first half, it might have been a different game.

 

We had other gliimpses of Top 10 D, like the Denver game (1st half borderline dominant), and we saw plenty from our D last year overall that should make us feel like a Top 10 D is realistic this season after continued improvement.

 

Health is always a variable - indeed - but we weren't dominant last year when healthy.  We need to sustain that success, run the ball, and we'll be good enough with 12 under center.  Dominant D will cost too much to sustain anyway....just ask Seattle as the bills roll in.

Good analysis.  That was when the 'talking heads' immediately mentioned Super Bowl.

 

With Mathis out, it is just like an injury.  I see 3 or 4 players that will be hunting PM on opening night in his place.

 

• Werner (He will surprise this year...he is healthy)
• McNary (May be the baddest LB on the team)
• Adongo? :  Bring 282 at the QB...
• Newsome :  One thing this man does is RUSH the QB.

Bring the heat...and disguise with 4-3 and 3-4 blitz packages.  Manusky needs to go after the QBs in number 98's absence.

[Jay Kirk]

If healthy, I feel we can be.  Healthy is the key word.

 

I would love to see the absolutely dominant defensive team that played the San Francisco 49ers last year...we were healthy.  Our front seven should be much improved...making the DBs better...just the old LB's opinion ZtB.

Exactly

[Jay Kirk]

Good analysis.  That was when the 'talking heads' immediately mentioned Super Bowl.

 

With Mathis out, it is just like an injury.  I see 3 or 4 players that will be hunting PM on opening night in his place.

 

• Werner (He will surprise this year...he is healthy)
• McNary (May be the baddest LB on the team)
• Adongo? :  Bring 282 at the QB...
• Newsome :  One thing this man does is RUSH the QB.

Bring the heat...and disguise with 4-3 and 3-4 blitz packages.  Manusky needs to go after the QBs in number 98's absence.

Im anxious to see Andrew Jackson as well,and also expect much more from Chapman and With Jones on that line who knows.Thats when your secondary wreaks havoc ,when you get pressure from front 3 disguised LB blitzes .Im ready to see us get right out aggressive ,that's what will spell out if we are dominant or not.IMO we will stuff the run.

[qwertyuiop123]

I said it and no I'm not. Trying getting off your couch and out down the mcdonalds! I was once much bigger. So not that hard to jump back up to were you was. And frankly I don't care, I walk around jacked and ripped. You're probably round or crack head skinny...

 

Yes, you are. You may have added 43lbs in little over a year, but you haven't added 43lbs of muscle in little over a year.

[ztboiler]

Good analysis.  That was when the 'talking heads' immediately mentioned Super Bowl.

 

With Mathis out, it is just like an injury.  I see 3 or 4 players that will be hunting PM on opening night in his place.

 

• Werner (He will surprise this year...he is healthy)
• McNary (May be the baddest LB on the team)
• Adongo? :  Bring 282 at the QB...
• Newsome :  One thing this man does is RUSH the QB.

Bring the heat...and disguise with 4-3 and 3-4 blitz packages.  Manusky needs to go after the QBs in number 98's absence.

Like you, I hope that we see the rest of the defensive playbook this year now that we have a more experienced foundation and stronger front 7.  Disguised, agressive gameplans.  Werner will make a jump and I'm very excited about McNary, Newsome and Adongo as well.  The latter 2 are "what ifs", but I am pretty confident that Werner and McNary will have an impact.

[pgt_rob]

Really looking forward to Adongo playing as well as Newsome. Do you guys think they will play this season besides special team plays?

[Jay Kirk]

Really looking forward to Adongo playing as well as Newsome. Do you guys think they will play this season besides special team plays?

Depends on camp and confidence level of coaching staff.I can see both utilized in passing situations 3rd and long.

[NewEra]

Yes, you are. You may have added 43lbs in little over a year, but you haven't added 43lbs of muscle in little over a year.

You boys are not in touch with reality. Suns out, guns out! Eat a nutty bar for me, I miss those damn things!

[TKnight24]

Might replace Cory Redding in the future if he keeps putting weight on like this/at this rate

[Superman]

As for your prelude, if you don't want to discuss football, then just say so and I won't let it happen again.  

 

As to your question.  Yes, I am saying that the talent is very unlikely to be here today for us to experience anything akin to a dominant defense.  I like our progress, and love our players, but we're short a few difference-makers to be any better than a top 10 defense.  It's OK to like who we are today while acknowledging our limitations.

 

I think that's a premature determination, personally. Guys like Werner, McNary, Chapman, etc. are still new to the league, and can be expected to make improvement from Year 1 to Year 2. Toler being on the field rather than Vaughn is an advantage. And so on... It's possible that one or more of the young guys we have on the roster already will be more impactful than they've been in the past. 

 

Then the veteran additions are, I think significantly better than the guys they're replacing. Jones is better than Moala and Mathews, and whatever the rotation between him, Redding and RJF winds up being (and however Hughes gets worked in), our defensive line is better than it was last year, for sure. D'Qwell Jackson is better than Angerer, by a mile. And assuming that he and Freeman wind up taking the lion's share of the snaps at ILB, that pushes Sheppard off the field as well. To me, Jackson and Jones are definitely difference makers.

 

The only place I think we're taking a step back is at safety, and that's not by much. I haven't been impressed with Bethea in some time now, and I think Howell was better in coverage in his short time last year. And then we need someone to step up in Mathis' absence, but that's only for a month.

 

I understand not getting carried away and predicting us to be the most dominant defense in the league, but I think the incremental improvements we've been making along with the added players will pay noticeable dividends. 

[ztboiler]

I think that's a premature determination, personally. Guys like Werner, McNary, Chapman, etc. are still new to the league, and can be expected to make improvement from Year 1 to Year 2. Toler being on the field rather than Vaughn is an advantage. And so on... It's possible that one or more of the young guys we have on the roster already will be more impactful than they've been in the past. 

 

Then the veteran additions are, I think significantly better than the guys they're replacing. Jones is better than Moala and Mathews, and whatever the rotation between him, Redding and RJF winds up being (and however Hughes gets worked in), our defensive line is better than it was last year, for sure. D'Qwell Jackson is better than Angerer, by a mile. And assuming that he and Freeman wind up taking the lion's share of the snaps at ILB, that pushes Sheppard off the field as well. To me, Jackson and Jones are definitely difference makers.

 

The only place I think we're taking a step back is at safety, and that's not by much. I haven't been impressed with Bethea in some time now, and I think Howell was better in coverage in his short time last year. And then we need someone to step up in Mathis' absence, but that's only for a month.

 

I understand not getting carried away and predicting us to be the most dominant defense in the league, but I think the incremental improvements we've been making along with the added players will pay noticeable dividends. 

You are describing incremental improvement to a T, and elements that could solidify us as a Top 10 defense - a monumental achievement for this team if we can pull it off.  As stated above, I think it all adds up to being an upper echelon unit - I like it for the same reasons you do.

 

But, no, I see dominant as something entirely different.  There is another level of disruptive ability required at DT/DE, Sam, Safety, and probably CB needed for dominance.  It also isn't a level that we necessarily need to reach to win multiple Superbowls - nor could we afford it sustainably.  This unit is good enough to get us there if we can run the ball and stop the run.

[BrentMc11]

You boys are not in touch with reality. Suns out, guns out! Eat a nutty bar for me, I miss those damn things!

Chinese for me please

[NewEra]

Chinese for me please

I LOVE that crap! But then I'm starving an hour later, lol

[Hoosiernsavga]

There's always water/fat gain when bulking. Doesn't mean it's mostly NOT muscle. And congrats, I've always been a power lifter through my early years but have been doing more bodybuilding recently just for more of a healthy and aesthetic look.

Oh yeah, tell Big Ramy you can't put on 25 pounds in 5 months...

Yeah, Mamdouh "Big Ramy" Elssiah is a beast. Had the privilege meeting him at the Mr.O. But if you are into bodybuilding now you know the IFBB pros are an exception. They all have GREAT genetics, the best gear money can buy, top trainers and coaches in the field, eating a full high protein and carb meal every two hrs, it's their job to get as freaky big as possible no matter what it takes.

Like you said people who just start lifting have more range for gains than someone who has lifted for years.

Sorry for being a jerk, I just work my tail off in the gym to make quality gains and I have pretty decent genetics. So when someone says it's easy to gain 25lbs of muscle in 5 months it just hit me wrong at the time... LOL

How long have you been training?

[NewEra]

Yeah, Mamdouh "Big Ramy" Elssiah is a beast. Had the privilege meeting him at the Mr.O. But if you are into bodybuilding now you know the IFBB pros are an exception. They all have GREAT genetics, the best gear money can buy, top trainers and coaches in the field, eating a full high protein and carb meal every two hrs, it's their job to get as freaky big as possible no matter what it takes.

Like you said people who just start lifting have more range for gains than someone who has lifted for years.

Sorry for being a jerk, I just work my tail off in the gym to make quality gains and I have pretty decent genetics. So when someone says it's easy to gain 25lbs of muscle in 5 months it just hit me wrong at the time... LOL

How long have you been training?

Lol, well I guess easy was the wrong word. More like possible. Been lifting off and on for last 18 years. I know it's way harder to pack on muscle once you get to a certain weight and you're pushing your body above and beyond it's limits.

[Superman]

You are describing incremental improvement to a T, and elements that could solidify us as a Top 10 defense - a monumental achievement for this team if we can pull it off.  As stated above, I think it all adds up to being an upper echelon unit - I like it for the same reasons you do.

 

But, no, I see dominant as something entirely different.  There is another level of disruptive ability required at DT/DE, Sam, Safety, and probably CB needed for dominance.  It also isn't a level that we necessarily need to reach to win multiple Superbowls - nor could we afford it sustainably.  This unit is good enough to get us there if we can run the ball and stop the run.

 

We showed flashes of dominance on defense last year. I think we were more inconsistent than incapable, and part of that was due to injuries. Add in the new players and incremental improvements from the other guys (someone like Vontae Davis might still be getting better; we've seen his ceiling, but becoming more consistent would make him a top ten player at his position), and we could be close to dominant. 

 

Just think of some of the teams we shut down last season: The Niners ran all over everyone in the more physical NFC in 2012, and we clamped down on their offense to the tune of 7 points. Only a couple of mistakes on Frank Gore in the first half, other than that, they had a long day on offense. The defense was all over Denver, and yeah they scored 33 points, but our defense was impressive. Kansas City couldn't do anything. We put together some great second halves as well, against Houston, Tennessee...

I think the players are there. I'd like a more imposing pass rush, but assuming Werner is better, and hopefully guys like Walden and maybe even Newsome are somewhat disruptive, we could be okay there as well. Our game theory needs work, but that improved from quarter to quarter against the Raiders, Seahawks, etc. It's all about discipline and consistency. Not gonna be the Seahawks, but again, I think the incremental improvements can come together for significant overall improvement. 

[Superman]

Yeah, Mamdouh "Big Ramy" Elssiah is a beast. Had the privilege meeting him at the Mr.O. But if you are into bodybuilding now you know the IFBB pros are an exception. They all have GREAT genetics, the best gear money can buy, top trainers and coaches in the field, eating a full high protein and carb meal every two hrs, it's their job to get as freaky big as possible no matter what it takes.

Like you said people who just start lifting have more range for gains than someone who has lifted for years.

Sorry for being a jerk, I just work my tail off in the gym to make quality gains and I have pretty decent genetics. So when someone says it's easy to gain 25lbs of muscle in 5 months it just hit me wrong at the time... LOL

How long have you been training?

 

Yeah, Mamdouh "Big Ramy" Elssiah is a beast. Had the privilege meeting him at the Mr.O. But if you are into bodybuilding now you know the IFBB pros are an exception. They all have GREAT genetics, the best gear money can buy, top trainers and coaches in the field, eating a full high protein and carb meal every two hrs, it's their job to get as freaky big as possible no matter what it takes.

Like you said people who just start lifting have more range for gains than someone who has lifted for years.

Sorry for being a jerk, I just work my tail off in the gym to make quality gains and I have pretty decent genetics. So when someone says it's easy to gain 25lbs of muscle in 5 months it just hit me wrong at the time... LOL

How long have you been training?

 

That's the thing about Adongo. He obviously has great genes; you can see that in the pictures from camp last year. But he's coming from Africa. He said his diet was mostly nuts and berries, and he was playing a cardio heavy sport. Put him on a protein and carb rich diet, get him the supplements and whatnot, show him a professional weight room and give him a few months, and there's going to be significant gains. 

 

I don't think he can play a full season at 280 pounds, but it's not hard to believe that he put on 25-30 pounds in a few months, nor is is hard to believe that most of it was muscle. I have questions about his conditioning, not necessarily his speed. Once he puts the pads back on and tries to run up and down the field, I think he'll be in world of hurt. But in a few weeks, he'll drop 10-15 pounds, and I think he can learn how to use his body like a football player should. At least I hope that's what happens.

[krunk]

I can see Adongo actually doing well at DE if they put him there.  Just looking over his rugby film shows you that he is pretty capable at working in heavy traffic and trash.  You can see him slicing through piles of people making tackles.  I bet those same skills could translate to 3-4  DE with a little bit of work.

[dw49]

That's the thing about Adongo. He obviously has great genes; you can see that in the pictures from camp last year. But he's coming from Africa. He said his diet was mostly nuts and berries, and he was playing a cardio heavy sport. Put him on a protein and carb rich diet, get him the supplements and whatnot, show him a professional weight room and give him a few months, and there's going to be significant gains. 

 

I don't think he can play a full season at 280 pounds, but it's not hard to believe that he put on 25-30 pounds in a few months, nor is is hard to believe that most of it was muscle. I have questions about his conditioning, not necessarily his speed. Once he puts the pads back on and tries to run up and down the field, I think he'll be in world of hurt. But in a few weeks, he'll drop 10-15 pounds, and I think he can learn how to use his body like a football player should. At least I hope that's what happens.

 

 

Very true and what those that say he doesn't look like 280 are forgetting is that he's 6"5" . A guy that tall with so little body fat will actually look on the lean side. Did Freeney look 265 at just over 6' ? I would think he could easily play at 275 considering his height and low body fat and wouldn't be surprised to see him stabilize around that weight.

[ztboiler]

We showed flashes of dominance on defense last year. I think we were more inconsistent than incapable, and part of that was due to injuries. Add in the new players and incremental improvements from the other guys (someone like Vontae Davis might still be getting better; we've seen his ceiling, but becoming more consistent would make him a top ten player at his position), and we could be close to dominant. 

 

Just think of some of the teams we shut down last season: The Niners ran all over everyone in the more physical NFC in 2012, and we clamped down on their offense to the tune of 7 points. Only a couple of mistakes on Frank Gore in the first half, other than that, they had a long day on offense. The defense was all over Denver, and yeah they scored 33 points, but our defense was impressive. Kansas City couldn't do anything. We put together some great second halves as well, against Houston, Tennessee...

I think the players are there. I'd like a more imposing pass rush, but assuming Werner is better, and hopefully guys like Walden and maybe even Newsome are somewhat disruptive, we could be okay there as well. Our game theory needs work, but that improved from quarter to quarter against the Raiders, Seahawks, etc. It's all about discipline and consistency. Not gonna be the Seahawks, but again, I think the incremental improvements can come together for significant overall improvement. 

I think we are saying and seeing much the same things here.  Any differences are in the ambiguity of the word dominant.  I see us as an upper echelon Top 10 type D this year if the pieces fit right together.  I think that is what you see as well. Projecting much more than that requires anticipation of the unlikely from players that aren't likely to see the field all that much, and overlooks that we are pretty thin in the secondary.

 

I know from past conversations that we both agree that the primary weak spot last year was at ILB.  We now have a tandem that should be able to stay on the field for 3 downs and a leader that should open up the D playbook a lot.  A. Jackson and McNary make me feel like we also have depth and upside in that group at an NFL level now.  I think our Run D issues are fixed from that alone, and when you add Art Jones we may very well be top 5 against the run.

 

Against the pass, Jones gives us a bump in the rotation there - the collective group is stronger, and I believe RJF is a better pass rusher than he showed last year.  Still, I don't think we a stud interior rusher yet, and for me, interior pass rush is the #1 factor in pass defense.  The secondary is our unit with the most question marks. We'll have as many as 3 UDFA's make the team in that group and probably no less than 2 - or we'll be keeping pedestrian vets who we know have a low ceiling.

[CanuckColt]

Might replace Cory Redding in the future if he keeps putting weight on like this/at this rate

He might be a backup for NT if he keeps stacking on those cheeseburgers.

[Superman]

Very true and what those that say he doesn't look like 280 are forgetting is that he's 6"5" . A guy that tall with so little body fat will actually look on the lean side. Did Freeney look 265 at just over 6' ? I would think he could easily play at 275 considering his height and low body fat and wouldn't be surprised to see him stabilize around that weight.

 

I would think 260-265 would be better as a playing weight. But it's his body, and he'll figure out how best to use it as a football player. I'm not going to pretend that I know his body better than he does.

[Superman]

I think we are saying and seeing much the same things here.  Any differences are in the ambiguity of the word dominant.  I see us as an upper echelon Top 10 type D this year if the pieces fit right together.  I think that is what you see as well. Projecting much more than that requires anticipation of the unlikely from players that aren't likely to see the field all that much, and overlooks that we are pretty thin in the secondary.

 

I know from past conversations that we both agree that the primary weak spot last year was at ILB.  We now have a tandem that should be able to stay on the field for 3 downs and a leader that should open up the D playbook a lot.  A. Jackson and McNary make me feel like we also have depth and upside in that group at an NFL level now.  I think our Run D issues are fixed from that alone, and when you add Art Jones we may very well be top 5 against the run.

 

Against the pass, Jones gives us a bump in the rotation there - the collective group is stronger, and I believe RJF is a better pass rusher than he showed last year.  Still, I don't think we a stud interior rusher yet, and for me, interior pass rush is the #1 factor in pass defense.  The secondary is our unit with the most question marks. We'll have as many as 3 UDFA's make the team in that group and probably no less than 2 - or we'll be keeping pedestrian vets who we know have a low ceiling.

 

Yeah probably so. I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think we might be closer than others think. We'll see how things come together, how health impacts our defense, etc. I don't even necessarily mind the inexperience in the secondary, but someone has to step up. The interior pass rush can improve, with Chapman presumably starting, and our DT/DE rotation being better.

 

I also think it depends on how you rank defenses. I don't think yardage by itself is meaningful, but it has its place. I'm hoping to see more consistent pressure on the QB, with fewer breakdowns/missed tackles that lead to big gains on scrambles. Better tackling, overall. More turnovers. More consistent stops on third down. And of course, fewer points. We'll see how it works out with overall numbers, but I think our defense has plenty of potential. I agree that we agree.

[dw49]

I would think 260-265 would be better as a playing weight. But it's his body, and he'll figure out how best to use it as a football player. I'm not going to pretend that I know his body better than he does.

 

 

Dunno…some big guys play that position in a 3-4. Aldalius Thomas 6'2" 270.  This guy is 6'5" but let's hope he can play and the weight will take care of itself.

[Track Guy]

Thats 25 pounds according to what his listed weight is on Colts.com of 257lbs....I still have a hard time believing that coaching staff told him to add that much weight, I also have a harder time believing that all that weight added is muscle in such a short amount of time....5 months.....25lbs of muscle?

I think it's impossible to add that kind of muscle so fast without PEDs. Especially if you're not a complete n00b in the weight room. To be honest even if you were on the juice, I don't think you'd be able to add 25 lbs of muscle in 5 months. Maybe 15 if you were absolutely going ham.

[ColtsLegacy]

I would think 260-265 would be better as a playing weight. But it's his body, and he'll figure out how best to use it as a football player. I'm not going to pretend that I know his body better than he does.

But will his body be ready?

[krunk]

I wonder what Adongo runs in the 40?  Does anybody know?

[dudeski]

Probably won't make the team

[TKnight24]

Probably won't make the team

Who's gonna beat him out?

You act like we're deep at OLB

[dudeski]

Who's gonna beat him out?

You act like we're deep at OLB

people that play football

[TKnight24]

people that play football

Very descriptive response there :clap:

The fact that you can't mention who'll beat him out makes your statement invalid. Don't say someone won't make the team then not list who'll stop them from making the team.