If Vontae leaves/What to do with Vontae [Merge]

[Stoney]

Really? Because Hilton burned Sherman and I don't think TY had 229 yards.

There is burned like youre thinking of for 125 - 150 yards. And then there is getting completely outplayed and looking like you dont belong out there and not even trying when you give one guy 225+ yards.

[ColtsUrUs]

Burning is burning. It doesn't matter if it's 100 yards or 300.

 

Sherman is a shutdown corner. I never said he wasn't. Peterson is actually worse than Davis.

 

Burning is burning. It doesn't matter if it's 100 yards or 300.

 

Sherman is a shutdown corner. I never said he wasn't. Peterson is actually worse than Davis.

 

Peterson is worse than Davis lol but Peterson in his third year has 12 int vs. Davis in his fifth year has 13 int. But you guys will still bank off potential with a guy in his 5th year vs. a 3rd year guy. lol ok. 

[Colts_Fan12]

Dude a Defense starts on the line. You can have subpar secondary and a elite d-line and pass rush. Look at the Chiefs, and 49'ers D. That's the way it's built.

The cheifs don't have a subpar secondary they have Eric berry and flowers and smith they are all better then the DBs we have we have other then Vontae and the 49ers have a S pair of Whitner and Reid

[ColtsUrUs]

The cheifs don't have a subpar secondary they have Eric berry and flowers and smith anew all better then the CBs we have other then Vontae and the 49ers have a S pair of Whitner hand Reid

 

I'm speaking on CB's because I'm in a Vontae Davis thread. How are the CB's on both of those teams? 

[IndyScribe]

Peterson is worse than Davis lol but Peterson in his third year has 12 int vs. Davis in his fifth year has 13 int. But you guys will still bank off potential with a guy in his 5th year vs. a 3rd year guy. lol ok. 

Using interceptions as a stat to prove a point. Lol ok. Interceptions is a bad way to judge players. Davis beats Peterson in almost every category. Don't believe me? I'll give you the stats. Peterson has a surrounding cast and he still does worse than Davis.

 

There is burned like youre thinking of for 125 - 150 yards. And then there is getting completely outplayed and looking like you dont belong out there and not even trying when you give one guy 225+ yards.

Ah ok. Yeah, I get what you mean.

[BLUEx40]

Just because we gave up the draft pick should not be the reason for over paying an average cb.

I think its a bigger mistake to over pay Davis and lock him up long term.

My feeling is there are better options for us without Davis.

 

Throughout the two years Davis was here, he was nothing special.

In my opinion, our defense has been disappointing over that period and Davis has not lived up to his hype.

He is being over rated by the "experts" as a free agent.

And is being HIGHLY over rated on this forum.

wow tell us how you really feel you know how you fix not having to watch wat you think is a horrible defense for the last two years watch another team its that simple

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm speaking on CB's because I'm in a Vontae Davis thread. How are the CB's on both of those teams?

Exactly we lose Vontae and the rest of our CB are terrible other then Gordy showed a little promise both of those teams have a way better secondary then us also I was talking about the whole pass D that includes the S

I agree with you that pass rush is important but we have to upgrade our players in the secondary tho

[ColtsUrUs]

Using interceptions as a stat to prove a point. Lol ok. Interceptions is a bad way to judge players. Davis beats Peterson in almost every category. Don't believe me? I'll give you the stats. Peterson has a surrounding cast and he still does worse than Davis.

 

 

Could you state the other categories Davis beats Peterson in please. 

[bavanlan]

Peterson is actually worse than Davis.

 

[Shive]

229 yards worth of burning tho?

Have to also take into consideration the complete absence of a pass rush that game. Any corner is going to get worked when he has to cover an elite WR for an extended period of time.

[ColtsUrUs]

Exactly we lose Vontae and the rest of our CB are terrible other then Gordy showed a little promise both of those teams have a way better secondary then us also I was talking about the whole pass D that includes the S

 

You're missing the whole point. I would not my team i like to overpay a player when it's needs in other places. And from my time watching football all my life. The D starts up front and ends at the backend. And another question for you. Did you complain about pass rush and defensive line more last year?

[ColtsUrUs]

Have to also take into consideration the complete absence of a pass rush that game. Any corner is going to get worked when he has to cover an elite WR for an extended period of time.

So you rather pay a CB big bucks with the same subpar pass rush and D line?

[Colts_Fan12]

Have to also take into consideration the complete absence of a pass rush that game. Any corner is going to get worked when he has to cover an elite WR for an extended period of time.

Not to mention both of his S got burnt all year and suck in coverage

[bavanlan]

Am I the only one that would pay out Byrd over Davis? 

 

No, you're not.  Lots of other people are wrong about that too.

[Colts_Fan12]

So you rather pay a CB big bucks with the same subpar pass rush and D line?

Problem is Grigs prolly isn't gonna look to improve our pass rush he will wait to see what Werner does he likes walden too and I think Adongo is gonna play this year too

[IndyScribe]

Could you state the other categories Davis beats Peterson in please. 

Ok. 

TDs allowed: Peterson 7, Davis 8. Davis gets beat here.

Opponent Catch Percentage: Peterson 54.4%, Davis 50.6%. Davis wins here.

Opponent Yards per Reception: Peterson 14.0, Davis 13.0. Davis wins.

Passes Defended/Intercepted: Peterson 10%, Davis 14.1%. Davis wins.

Stops/Missed Tackle Ratio: Peterson .86 stops for every missed tackle while Davis 4.25 stops for every missed tackle. Davis wins.

[ColtsUrUs]

Problem is Grigs prolly isn't gonna look to improve our pass rush he will wait to see what Werner does he likes walden too and I think Adongo is gonna play this year too

 

But it still doesn't make sense to pay big money on a CB if you D-line and LB's aren't sured up. 

[throwing BBZ]

I don't care how good our pass rush is our D needs a good CB not to mention if we continue to play 2 SS our pass D will still suck

 

 We got very poor play from our front seven. Throw in the 2 SS and we got plowed on D in the playoffs.

 So Davis did his job well except against a few BLAZERS, and we still got Smoked on D.

 

  It is MUCH more important we fix the whole front 7 issue than sign him specifically.

 Redding must become a backup, RJF has to step it up and also be used in the middle in pass rush situations, TG No more Angerer, Freeman needs to be Out (McNary) on 3rd an longs More often, Werner has to improve, Montari has to step up... etc

 

 Today, the FA Market is skimpy for a solid replacement. Minus the 'head', i would just as soon have Cromartie`s skills than Davis. He is a Coverage King.

 But Cromartie will probably get $8M per somewhere!

 There Will Be other Corners that come available between now and traing camp thru cuts or trades. Seattle did WELL last Year waiting it out.

 

 Pagano is the secondary Guru. And we probably should draft a CB in round 2 no matter if we sign Davis or not.

Here are 3 guys that i am sure are being looked over for pick 59.

Bashaud Breeland,

Antone Exum

Keith McGill

 

[Colts_Fan12]

You're missing the whole point. I would not my team i like to overpay a player when it's needs in other places. And from my time watching football all my life. The D starts up front and ends at the backend. And another question for you. Did you complain about pass rush and defensive line more last year?

Me I complained about our crappy S play but I wouldn't mind improving the pass rush but like I said a post ago Grigs wont cause he likes who he has

[Colts_Fan12]

We got very poor play from our front seven. Throw in the 2 SS and we got plowed on D in the playoffs.

So Davis did his job well except against a few BLAZERS, and we still got Smoked on D.

It is MUCH more important we fix the whole front 7 issue than sign him specifically.

Redding must become a backup, RJF has to step it up and also be used in the middle in pass rush situations, TG No more Angerer, Freeman needs to be Out (McNary) on 3rd an longs More often, Werner has to improve, Montari has to step up... etc

Today, the FA Market is skimpy for a solid replacement. Minus the 'head', i would just as soon have Cromartie`s skills than Davis. He is a Coverage King.

But Cromartie will probably get $8M per somewhere!

There Will Be other Corners that come available between now and traing camp thru cuts or trades. Seattle did WELL last Year waiting it out.

Pagano is the secondary Guru. And we probably should draft a CB in round 2 no matter if we sign Davis or not.

Here are 3 guys that i am sure are being looked over for pick 59.

Bashaud Breeland,

Antone Exum

Keith McGill

We should draft one cause Toler sucks but is love to sign Lamar Houston to replace redding

[ColtsUrUs]

Ok. 

TDs allowed: Peterson 7, Davis 8. Davis gets beat here.

Opponent Catch Percentage: Peterson 54.4%, Davis 50.6%. Davis wins here.

Opponent Yards per Reception: Peterson 14.0, Davis 13.0. Davis wins.

Passes Defended/Intercepted: Peterson 10%, Davis 14.1%. Davis wins.

Stops/Missed Tackle Ratio: Peterson .86 stops for every missed tackle while Davis 4.25 stops for every missed tackle. Davis wins.

 

But you fail to state the obvious. Top Tier CB's don't get the ball thrown to their side much. But it's funny you through out stats but you said int's doesn't mean anything either.

[Colts_Fan12]

But it still doesn't make sense to pay big money on a CB if you D-line and LB's aren't sured up.

but It does when your GM isn't gonna improve the pass rush and the CB is the only thing keeping us from being absolute garbage

[IndyScribe]

But you fail to state the obvious. Top Tier CB's don't get the ball thrown to their side much. But it's funny you through out stats but you said int's doesn't mean anything either.

Interceptions don't matter. QBs aren't going to throw the ball to them. 

[James]

I'm just stating a fact regarding Vontae not being resigned.

So you prefer to not answer a person's questions? Gotcha.

[Colts_Fan12]

To everyone wanting to improve the pass rush I agree with you but I just don't see Grigs doing it other then maybe drafting or signing a DE

[Defjamz26]

Maybe they want to save money for all the people that will need to get resigned next year. If that's the case you might as well start trading people away too. I thought Vontae was going to be a part of the future Colts. Hope I'm still right. It would make sense to keep him, then draft a young corner to be the #2. Worry about safety next year. If money is the issue, then trade away guys like Ballard, Toler, Brazil,etc... so we don't have to pay their remaining money,and give Davis the money he wants.

 

He's still relatively young too. And young is what we need. I don't want any of the FA corners, since they might be even more expensive. Vontae is decent though. But unless Grigson thinks he can somehow get Darqueze Dennard, who is a better version of Davis, then we need to keep him.

[ColtsUrUs]

Maybe they want to save money for all the people that will need to get resigned next year. If that's the case you might as well start trading people away too. I thought Vontae was going to be a part of the future Colts. Hope I'm still right. It would make sense to keep him, then draft a young corner to be the #2. Worry about safety next year. If money is the issue, then trade away guys like Ballard, Toler, Brazil,etc... so we don't have to pay their remaining money,and give Davis the money he wants.

 

He's still relatively young too. And young is what we need. I don't want any of the FA corners, since they might be even more expensive. Vontae is decent though. But unless Grigson thinks he can somehow get Darqueze Dennard, who is a better version of Davis, then we need to keep him.

 

 

That's how the Colts got into a hole last time when Bill Polian started to just pay players what they wanted. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

So you prefer to not answer a person's questions? Gotcha.

90% of the posts in this thread are not answering ops questions. There is no replacement for Vontae. Unless we get him, we are worse off. His "replacement" would probably require a similar salary

[Dustin]

So you're saying Peterson and Sherman are not shutdown corners. lol wow.

Peterson gave up more yards, more yards per attempt, a higher completion percentage, and had less plays on the ball than Vontae did.

[Dustin]

But you fail to state the obvious. Top Tier CB's don't get the ball thrown to their side much. But it's funny you through out stats but you said int's doesn't mean anything either.

Except PP was thrown at 5 more times than Vontae.

[throwing BBZ]

but It does when your GM isn't gonna improve the pass rush and the CB is the only thing keeping us from being absolute garbage

 

I`m thinking we WERE absolute Garbage on D in the playoffs. 44+43 = Garbage WITH Vontae.

 

Maybe your standards are just a little bit to low. Come on Man! They Are what We think they Are! ;)

Not that i don`t like Vontae and we do need a good corner over there NOW for a possible SERIOUS run this Year. Certainly for Next!

[ColtsUrUs]

Except PP was thrown at 5 more times than Vontae.

 

Except PP was thrown at 5 more times than Vontae.

 

Did you state PP played every game except one and VD didn't. So playing 4 more games than another player would get you 5 more thrown passes if you want to get technical. 

[Dustin]

Did you state PP played every game and VD didn't. So playing 4 more games than another player would get you 5 more thrown passes if you want to get technical.

If you really want to get technical Davis didn't miss a game.

[ColtsUrUs]

If you really want to get technical Davis didn't miss a game.

 

He missed 2 and left the game 3 times. 

[Psyren]

Let him walk.

Just because we gave up a pick is no reason to overpay him.

I too would love Sam Shields and then draft another CB.

[Dustin]

He missed 2 and left the game 3 times.

No he didn't.

[ColtsUrUs]

No he didn't.

 

So VD never left a game w/o finishing it last season? And he didn't miss 2 games last season. 

[Day at the Hilton]

Walter Thurmond anyone? He'll be much cheaper

[jb17]

TWEET TO KEEP DAVIS FROM SCREWING HIMSELF OVER BY LEAVING TO CRAPPY TEAM. TWEET AT HIM WITH POSITIVE YET EYE OPENING MSGS. SHOW YOUR SUPPORT TO KEEP HIM AROUND!!

[Dustin]

So VD never left a game w/o finishing it last season? And he didn't miss 2 games last season.

Don't think so, and even if he did, the effect is minimal. Vonate's better across the board at virtually every stat. You're just reaching.