Colts and Davis Not Close to a Deal

[theanarchist]

If he is not locked up long term that 2nd round trade will have been a pretty bad move...

I agree. I don't like the "not close to a deal" thing. I was hoping that they were atleast making some progress but that makes it sound like they aren't. I don't like it. I think the defense needs him.

[theanarchist]

I'd like Davis back....But I'd love seeing this forum have a meltdown once ya all are forced to realize just how valuable good Corners are regardless of how much pass rush ya have

I'll agree with you on the corners being valuable. Either the team is OK with going after another guy or Vontae's agent isn't being reasonable because it sure looked like the bar was set with the Grimes deal.

[buccolts]

This is a strange thread indeed. Kate Upton conversation going on as well as a Vontae Davis discussion

 

Yeah, I'm not certain which is the side show.

[theanarchist]

Completely agree. I just feel like if this contract is going to hurt us in the long run, we should put the money elsewhere, find cheaper options, and manufacture pressure on the QB. We could make mediocre talent look good was my point. I love what Davis brings to the table, but 10-12 a year is a bit high in my estimation.

you don't win the super bowl with crappy corners people. I don't care how good your pass rush is

[MTC]

I'll be shocked if Colts resign him before the open market. He obviously wants 8 million a year or more... and the Colts won't sign him to that.

Better for some team to overpay him than us. :cool:

[#BringBobBack]

Or San Francisco or Denver? There are more than one winning team..

well aware i only stated oakland or detroit because they are the 2 teams i keep hearing have alot of interest in him but yes im aware there are other winning teams just none better than the colts simple as that

[Can'tStandYa]

I have to agree with the governor.... Let's face it... Yes he's got the skill set to be a top 5 corner in the league... But how long can we say that... Can we say that after giving him 25mill+ guaranteed. Idk... I just have the feeling he's not a colt next year. If we wanted him,,,, he'd be locked up by now.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Certainly a concern. I think Davis is good, not great inconsistent. I would like him back but don't want to be held hostage by him, & overpay. He must think there is something better out there for him? If not signed we will differently need a CB either in draft or free agency, maybe both!

[throwing BBZ]

I'd like Davis back....But I'd love seeing this forum have a meltdown once ya all are forced to realize just how valuable good Corners are regardless of how much pass rush ya have

 

Well, how many of us have Foregotten way back when Cassius Vaughn played? ;) 

 

 Rayboo and Ashley Ambrose made us feel better.

 Marlon Jackson & Kelvin Hayden are a nice memory.

 

 Vontae is often called inconsistent. Not by me. I saw him get smoked by just a few Burners, well, and Andre Johnson. ;)

 If Chuck were to Really Really Really expect His Guy to be there at 59... I would rather spend $9M ish in that scenario on Byrd i guess.

[#BringBobBack]

Certainly a concern. I think Davis is good, not great inconsistent. I would like him back but don't want to be held hostage by him, & overpay. He must think there is something better out there for him? If not signed we will differently need a CB either in draft or free agency, maybe both!

yes everytime i rewatch him getting burned by andre johnson and tavon austin im getting more and more ok with letting him walk only if he wants more than he's worth which isnt 9-10 mil a year inconsistancy is the word here no need for that

[coltsfanatic24]

Raiders are losing both of their CB's Porter and Jenkins and they play in the same division as Peyton, Rivers, and Smith. Vontae Davis is a top 10 CB in the league and one of the top 3 press CB's. His market value should be 9 mil a year. 

 

 I would expect we 1st offered what Grimes got $8M per. Which i would LIKE! Which means his Agent & Vontae probably wouldn`t, certainly NOW.

 Is Oakland a team that might offer at least $9M? I would bet we would match that # and he says   ---    Yes!

 I really like him, but how good a corner can we get in the draft has to be a question. Chuck is the MAN for that job.

[Shug Diorio]

yea we need to lock him up before 12 tonight lol cuz we need another corner opposite of him because toler is just trash  he's the best CB in the free agent pool besides the often injured talib who is gonna get paid top dollar. Grigs stop being stupid pay the man and lets draft Stanley Jean-Baptste in the second round 

[Flash7]

Couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. If we don't re-sign Davis for what he's worth, (Top Corner Money, IMO) than it's a sign that we may not ever pay to have the league's top corners. We would rely on mid-tier FAs or guys under their rookie contracts. Our defense will struggle in this scenario.

 

2. I grade Davis to be a very good cover corner. The odds of finding someone better is slim. Therefore, if we don't re-sign Davis, our secondary will be worse this upcoming year.

 

3. I was hoping to pair Davis with someone better than Toler. Now, we may have to pair Toler with someone else with the possibility that Toler is our best corner--not good.

 

4. Lastly, I was hoping that our defensive backfield would improve this year. If we do not re-sign Davis, it would be a major set back. We still need a replacement for Bethea, if he isn't re-signed, and now possibly a replacement for Davis.

[Shug Diorio]

Couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. If we don't re-sign Davis for what he's worth, (Top Corner Money, IMO) than it's a sign that we may not ever pay to have the league's top corners. We would rely on mid-tier FAs or guys under their rookie contracts. Our defense will struggle in this scenario.

 

2. I grade Davis to be a very good cover corner. The odds of finding someone better is slim. Therefore, if we don't re-sign Davis, our secondary will be worse this upcoming year.

 

3. I was hoping to pair Davis with someone better than Toler. Now, we may have to pair Toler with someone else with the possibility that Toler is our best corner--not good.

 

4. Lastly, I was hoping that our defensive backfield would improve this year. If we do not re-sign Davis, it would be a major set back. We still need a replacement for Bethea, if he isn't re-signed, and now possibly a replacement for Davis.

 

 

 

well said thats my concern toler has no deep ball skills davis is a great cover corner who will be very hard to replace but we need bethea he has been the leader of that secondary for a long time now that would be a major setback plus i still think we need to upgrade a pass rush specialist opposite of mathis 

[Beauregarde]

well aware i only stated oakland or detroit because they are the 2 teams i keep hearing have alot of interest in him but yes im aware there are other winning teams just none better than the colts simple as that

You are speaking as a fan, not someone who is being analytic. I think Detroit will be the most improved team in the NFC and I think they will challenge for the North Division crown. They have a good coach, franchise QB on hand and a great defense that will get better if they add Davis. I am sure it is all about money at this point.

[Jaric]

I'd like him back but:

Front 7 > back 4.

[jameszeigler834]

he might want 12 million a year

He was decent last year he wasn't awesome so no if he wants 12million a year he wont get it from indy but they don't get him back then its stupid.

[Beauregarde]

I'd like him back but:

Front 7 > back 4.

You have to face Peyton Manning in Denver this year and you host Tom Brady.   Back 4> Front 7 in importance against those kind of QBs.

[#BringBobBack]

You are speaking as a fan, not someone who is being analytic. I think Detroit will be the most improved team in the NFC and I think they will challenge for the North Division crown. They have a good coach, franchise QB on hand and a great defense that will get better if they add Davis. I am sure it is all about money at this point.

i really liked how you went about making a strong point well done i agree with everything except thier QB i believe he's got a lot of growing and learning to do but if he could improve id like thier chances against the rest of the nfc north but you make good points

[IndyFanInNM]

So lets say we don't re-sign him before March 11th.. Do you guys think we still have a pretty good shot of landing him, even though other teams will be competing for him and offering more money?

[Beauregarde]

i really liked how you went about making a strong point well done i agree with everything except thier QB i believe he's got a lot of growing and learning to do but if he could improve id like thier chances against the rest of the nfc north but you make good points

He has all of the physical tools. He now has a coach who is brilliant at bringing out the best in QBs.

[Shive]

My question to those that are ok with letting Davis walk.. Who are we going to replace him with that brings the skill set that he does, at the level of play he can play at?

A lot of people say Verner, but he'd get destroyed in our scheme, as he's a zone corner (as Jerraud Powers did). There aren't many corners in the draft that have Davis-like potential, let alone production. Hell, it's a crapshoot anyhow..

If you can sign Davis to a reasonable contract, do it.

[Jaric]

You have to face Peyton Manning in Denver this year and you host Tom Brady.   Back 4> Front 7 in importance against those kind of QBs.

False.

The way you stop a QB like Brady or Manning is with a pass rush. You could have an all pro bowl secondary and with no pass rush those guys will tear you up. Both Manning and Brady become mortals when they're getting hit. All QBs do, but especially immobile ones.

[Beauregarde]

So lets say we don't re-sign him before March 11th.. Do you guys think we still have a pretty good shot of landing him, even though other teams will be competing for him and offering more money?

I think they already in trouble signing Davis. I think he is going to be offered some heavy $ from a contender.

[Hamster360]

The only bright side to Davis walking would be the ability to sign Byrd. We would still need a CB obviously though. So you go get a cheaper CB like Shields to take over for Davis, then draft a CB to replace Toler next year.  You would have 2 high paid safeties, but Shields would be your high paid CB at ~7M$, this years draft choice would be under 1M$, Toler at 4/5M$? and Butler at like 2M$?  Doesn't sound too unrealistic. Specially if you look at 2015 when we can cut Toler if we want.

[Beauregarde]

False.

The way you stop a QB like Brady or Manning is with a pass rush. You could have an all pro bowl secondary and with no pass rush those guys will tear you up. Both Manning and Brady become mortals when they're getting hit. All QBs do, but especially immobile ones.

Manning does not get hit enough to have any way to know that. He is also get rid of the ball faster than anyone other than Brady. Go ahead, try to play those guys without good pass defenders. They will eat them alive no matter how hard you rush them.

[Buck Showalter]

So lets say we don't re-sign him before March 11th.. Do you guys think we still have a pretty good shot of landing him, even though other teams will be competing for him and offering more money?

well he will probably be more expensive, & apparently he/his agent think he is worth more than Colts are currently offering...

I have a weird feeling that if he tests FA, he is as good as gone, maybe I am wrong, but...

[Jaric]

My question to those that are ok with letting Davis walk.. Who are we going to replace him with that brings the skill set that he does, at the level of play he can play at?

A lot of people say Verner, but he'd get destroyed in our scheme, as he's a zone corner (as Jerraud Powers did). There aren't many corners in the draft that have Davis-like potential, let alone production. Hell, it's a crapshoot anyhow..

If you can sign Davis to a reasonable contract, do it.

I'm not smart enough to know which of the other available free agents would be a good fit for us.

I'll simply defer to our scouting department.

If it turns out none of the secondary options are good fits, I'd try to use that money to beef up our pass rushing ability. Average corners look like pro bowlers when the QB is getting hit all day.

[IndyFanInNM]

I think they already in trouble signing Davis. I think he is going to be offered some heavy $ from a contender.

 If he does walk i hope we sign Sam Shields. My little brother is a Packer fan so i ended watching a lot of his games. The dude has amazing speed and shut down just about everyone. 

[Slick_Rick]

you don't win the super bowl with crappy corners people. I don't care how good your pass rush is

That's your perrogative. And that's fine, I'm just saying, you don't break the bank for a cb, when there are many other pressing needs. I never said that we would play with crappy corners. I will say that you don't win a Super Bowl without a pass rush. I mean, Vontae was on the field when Andre had 3 tds in the first half with Case Keenum throwing him the ball. A pass rush makes a bigger difference than you are letting on.

[Jaric]

Manning does not get hit enough to have any way to know that. He is also get rid of the ball faster than anyone other than Brady. Go ahead, try to play those guys without good pass defenders. They will eat them alive no matter how hard you rush them.

Lol. Eli Manning's Super Bowl rings disagree with you.

And regarding Manning... Please. We all love him here, but he's not impervious to pass rush. Quite the opposite. Exhibit A: 2005 playoff game vs Pittsburgh. Aka the "protection problem" game. Manning got hit all day and the offense sputtered because of it.

You aren't going to outcover a Brady or Manning passing attack. You honestly could not be more wrong about this.

[Slick_Rick]

I'd like Davis back....But I'd love seeing this forum have a meltdown once ya all are forced to realize just how valuable good Corners are regardless of how much pass rush ya have

I never said that he wasn't valuable, I don't care who you have at cb, if you give a qb (even a mediocre one) all day to throw, receivers will get open.

[Iancolts]

I'll pass on Davis at 12 mill second round or not he can have fun in Oakland! I'll take scattershot Kate up on my lap for 12 dollars lol

[Slick_Rick]

you don't win the super bowl with crappy corners people. I don't care how good your pass rush is

I would also like to note that when the Saints beat us, they didn't have great corners. The Giants haven't had great corners, but an outstanding pass rush. We won in 06 with a great pass rush, and pretty mediocre corners.

[Jaric]

I never said that he wasn't valuable, I don't care who you have at cb, if you give a qb (even a mediocre one) all day to throw, receivers will get open.

Yes. Lots of this. I still want Davis back mind you because a good secondary can help a pass rush by extending the time they have to get there, but even the best DBs can only be expected to consistently cover a WR for 4-5 seconds.

[Valpo2004]

Couple of thoughts on this:

 

1. If we don't re-sign Davis for what he's worth, (Top Corner Money, IMO) than it's a sign that we may not ever pay to have the league's top corners. We would rely on mid-tier FAs or guys under their rookie contracts. Our defense will struggle in this scenario.

 

2. I grade Davis to be a very good cover corner. The odds of finding someone better is slim. Therefore, if we don't re-sign Davis, our secondary will be worse this upcoming year.

 

3. I was hoping to pair Davis with someone better than Toler. Now, we may have to pair Toler with someone else with the possibility that Toler is our best corner--not good.

 

4. Lastly, I was hoping that our defensive backfield would improve this year. If we do not re-sign Davis, it would be a major set back. We still need a replacement for Bethea, if he isn't re-signed, and now possibly a replacement for Davis.

 

I do want to re-sign Davis but the good news is that there are several good corners available in FA.  So we are not just limited to Davis.  

[James]

If he's asking for anything more than 9 mil a year then good riddance. Find a CB in FA and draft one in the 2nd or 3rd this upcoming draft. If that's not possible then find a stop gasp type CB.. wait a year and draft a CB in the first round (2015 draft).

[Jaric]

I would also like to note that when the Saints beat us, they didn't have great corners. The Giants haven't had great corners, but an outstanding pass rush. We won in 06 with a great pass rush, and pretty mediocre corners.

Another example is either in 2007 or 2008 we played Billy Volek and the chargers in the playoffs carved us up like turkey's because Mathis and freeney were hurt and they had all day to throw.

[Slick_Rick]

Yes. Lots of this. I still want Davis back mind you because a good secondary can help a pass rush by extending the time they have to get there, but even the best DBs can only be expected to consistently cover a WR for 4-5 seconds.

Agreed. I am very open to having him back, but we saw last year that without a good pass rush, we can be eaten alive. The Texans game, the Cardinals game, the Cheifs playoff game. Our corners also made Ryan Fitzpatrick look pretty good at times.

[Flash7]

I do want to re-sign Davis but the good news is that there are several good corners available in FA.  So we are not just limited to Davis.  

Yep, I agree.

 

However, Davis is one of the top FA corners available. He'll demand top dollar. The other top corners will demand the same, so we will not be signing them either, or we'd just sign Davis.

 

We'd end up signing someone not as good as Davis for less, and therefore, our defense just got worse.