Polian Says May Switch From Tampa 2 Next Year Pending Personnel

[bayone]

• A caller asked about the Tampa-2 defense and if it no longer works in today's NFL. Polian answered that the Tampa-2 should get the opponent's offense off field on 3rd and 6 or greater '75% of the time.' Colts are no where near that percentage.
  
  
• 
  
• Polian stated he is
  'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel.
  
  

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2011/11/1/2529795/recap-of-the-bill-polian-show-week-8-2011

[DILLIGAFER]

Again, why is Polian making the defensive calls? Isn't that the decision of the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. I am glad to see he maybe has figured out it isn't working though.. maybe.

[Coltsman1788]

• A caller asked about the Tampa-2 defense and if it no longer works in today's NFL. Polian answered that the Tampa-2 should get the opponent's offense off field on 3rd and 6 or greater '75% of the time.' Colts are no where near that percentage.
  
• 
  
• Polian stated he is 'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel.
  

http://www.stampedeb...how-week-8-2011

Hmmmm...might be time for Coyer to start packing soon. If Polian is openly contemplating changing schemes then he is probably also considering bringing in a new defensive coordinator.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Coltsman1788

[jbaron04]

it only took him 10 years to see this defense dont wont it had it moments all had many many failures

[Smitto]

Polian is no different than bill parcel.. complete control.. i dont like him but i respect him for some of the talent he has brung in.. the man knows what he's doing better than any fan on or off the forum.. im kinda glad the season turned out the way it did just for the fact that it showed the colts their blemishes.

[Coltsman1788]

it only took him 10 years to see this defense dont wont it had it moments all had many many failures

I think the problem is more with Coyer's implementation of the scheme than the Cover 2 scheme itself. We also ran Cover 2 in 05 & 09 when the defense was pretty solid for the most part. We have never had a dominant defense though but it did help us get to 2 Super Bowls and win one. We couldn't even get a playoff win while Zone Blitzing under Fangio. Perhaps the game has now surpassed the Cover 2 scheme though, at the very least it has surpased the scheme as utilized by Coyer. I am open to trying something else but am concerned about whether or not we have enough time in the Manning era to properly conduct the turnover of defensive personnel required.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Coltsman1788

[jbaron04]

we need a new more agressive sheme that can get people off the field that challeges offense to beat them rather than wait for the offense to make a mistake or a receiver to drop a pass, or get a penalty

[Captain Americolt]

What defensive scheme other than the tampa 2 could the colts use?

[shaunzo]

What defensive scheme other than the tampa 2 could the colts use?

Any scheme would be better, but personnel will be an issue. They need to get big and mean, and stay out of the training room. Gonna take a complete overhaul, possibly sign some proven free agents?

[Smitto]

Any scheme would be better, but personnel will be an issue. They need to get big and mean, and stay out of the training room. Gonna take a complete overhaul, possibly sign some proven free agents?

Lol..... or they can just go to a basic 4-3 defense with more man coverages.

[tonychen]

Lol..... or they can just go to a basic 4-3 defense with more man coverages.

Our best man cover CB jerraud powers got beaten easily by Nate Washington - a very average WR in NFL.

Based on what Polian said " 'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel" I just dont see how the so-called "change" would be made.

[LaughingAtIrsay]

Sounds like Coyer will be gone, so that may be 1 Coach down.. 2 more to go! (Caldwell & Special Teams Coach)

[Ramblinwreck7]

Lol..... or they can just go to a basic 4-3 defense with more man coverages.

Hahaha that's what I was thinking...

[JoKeR]

Again, why is Polian making the defensive calls? Isn't that the decision of the DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. I am glad to see he maybe has figured out it isn't working though.. maybe.

Polian basically plays the part of a hands on owner, except he has more football knowledge than the average owner. He needs a HC that will makes these choices instead of a HC that's along for the ride.

[Coltsman1788]

Our best man cover CB jerraud powers got beaten easily by Nate Washington - a very average WR in NFL.

Based on what Polian said " 'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel" I just dont see how the so-called "change" would be made.

Yeah...really Powers shouldn't be a number one guy. He's our best corner but is probably more suited to playing as the number 2 corner on the outside, like last year. We are slotting our CB's higher than they are because we are so thin on talent. Hence the misuse of Lacy who was decent for us last year as a nickle or dime db. If we switch schemes from Tampa 2 (even if its just to play a more aggressive 4-3 with more aggressive man coverage as Smitto suggests) then we will need to add a bonafide shut down type corner to man the #1 spot.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Coltsman1788

[Ramblinwreck7]

I wish people would not equate the cover 2 to the Tampa 2. Have you never played NCAA football before, lol? The colts don't need to get rid of zone coverage, they just need to make it more aggresive. We need to use man to man a lot more, but it depends on the situation.

Maybe this means that we will draft a top ranked CB in round 1. I would love to see Morris Claiborne on the colts. He's a playmaker with great ball skills. Our LB's don't need to change, unless Kavel Conner doesn't improve in coverage. Ernie Sims could take his spot though if he doesn't get any better. We just need more talented CB's, no matter what scheme we use. And a playmaking SS would be nice.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Polian basically plays the part of a hands on owner, except he has more football knowledge than the average owner. He needs a HC that will makes these choices instead of a HC that's along for the ride.

Polian does draft the players for the schemes though. The coaches help him decide which players to draft depending on the defense that the head coach uses. I don't know if Caldwell helps though... I wish he would stand up for himself and get some self confidence. He can coach better than this...

[doogansquest]

Our best man cover CB jerraud powers got beaten easily by Nate Washington - a very average WR in NFL.

Based on what Polian said " 'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel" I just dont see how the so-called "change" would be made.

Right, but in a base Cover 2 (which is dramatically different than the Tampa 2), we would really only need to look at cover corners and a NT. Fortunately, the upcoming draft is LOADED with CB talent, and Powers would be able to hold his own if the rest of the defense were doing it's job. It's covering a bubble for extended periods of time that proved fatal to the existing, all-zone scheme.

There also appears to be some talent in Miami at the NT spot, and we may be in a great position to trade to them...

Edited November 1, 2011 by doogansquest

[smittywerb]

Questions:

Why is Bill Polian making defensive suggestions? That's the job for the DC.

Why did it take Bill Polian 10 years to see our scheme has been flawed?

SMH, 10 years too late Bill, now we are stuck with changing our defense (which is gonna take more time) in Peyton Manning's last years. Totally mishandled.

[presto123]

Questions:

Why is Bill Polian making defensive suggestions? That's the job for the DC.

Why did it take Bill Polian 10 years to see our scheme has been flawed?

SMH, 10 years too late Bill, now we are stuck with changing our defense (which is gonna take more time) in Peyton Manning's last years. Totally mishandled.

I keep saying that same thing over and over. A lot of people just flat out don't want to put the blame on Bill.

[John Waylon]

Well see. If we're not going out of our way to make changes at 0-8 it's hard to believe we will at any other time.

[CR91]

i got three words for this its about time

[Jason_]

I wish people would not equate the cover 2 to the Tampa 2. Have you never played NCAA football before, lol? The colts don't need to get rid of zone coverage, they just need to make it more aggresive. We need to use man to man a lot more, but it depends on the situation.

Maybe this means that we will draft a top ranked CB in round 1. I would love to see Morris Claiborne on the colts. He's a playmaker with great ball skills. Our LB's don't need to change, unless Kavel Conner doesn't improve in coverage. Ernie Sims could take his spot though if he doesn't get any better. We just need more talented CB's, no matter what scheme we use. And a playmaking SS would be nice.

thank you!

Polian answered that the Tampa-2 should get the opponent's offense off field on 3rd and 6 or greater '75% of the time.'

This is the point...Tampa 2 coverage is essentially best used as a 3rd down and long defense but that's not how it's currently being used. Coyer is using it way too much on 1st and 2nd downs

Our best man cover CB jerraud powers got beaten easily by Nate Washington - a very average WR in NFL.

Based on what Polian said " 'open' to changing defense away from Tampa-2 after this season based on the Colts current personnel" I just dont see how the so-called "change" would be made.

Honestly I think you're just nit-picking. I don't think there's a person in the country who doesn't expect the Colts to address CB in the draft and likely safety as well. The personnel we have is perfectly suited for a cover-2 type defense similar to what Chicago, Detroit and several other teams use. Even if they change schemes, I'm sure they will still use tampa 2 coverage on occasion, but not on over 50% of defensive plays like they're doing now. Also, once they address the secondary, they'd be able to change up the personnel. They could run tampa 2 coverage on 3rd and 6+ but perhaps with nickel or even dime personnel. Del Rio does this in Jax...he uses tampa 2 coverage but not always with a base 4-3 personnel.

Edited November 1, 2011 by Jason

[Fatboyslim11]

Polian is no different than bill parcel.. complete control.. i dont like him but i respect him for some of the talent he has brung in.. the man knows what he's doing better than any fan on or off the forum.. im kinda glad the season turned out the way it did just for the fact that it showed the colts their blemishes.

You're glad we are 0-8 and may go 0-16!?!?!? Parcells never called the Defensive calls, even as a HC. He had Belichek as D coordinator who has complete control of the Defense and various coaches serving as O coordinator that called the plays. Polian is nothing more than a ot of control, has been egomanic that is slowly running the Colts into the ground. Where is Caldwell? Do he not even have the balls to confront Polian (especially since he will be gone after this season).

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Our D sucks so bad, it wont matter that it will take time to change schemes. Peyton and the O had to do most of it before. Not much is gonna change. I say make the switch.

[coltfaninnewyork]

The texans hired wade phillips and switched to a 3-4,{not saying we will}and have played well.So a good d-coordinator and a new scheme can be implemented quickly and still be effective.

[Ramblinwreck7]

The texans hired wade phillips and switched to a 3-4,{not saying we will}and have played well.So a good d-coordinator and a new scheme can be implemented quickly and still be effective.

Exactly, I'm a Texan's fan and I didn't really worry about their defense like most people did. They got a top notch defensive coordinator and they addressed their needs at CB, SS, and FS through adding Jonathan Joseph, Daniel Manning, and switching Glover Quinn to FS. They drafted smart by drafting a position of need at 3-4 DE with J.J. Watt whom I've heard has played really well so far this year. They switched Mario Williams to 3-4 OLB, but all he does now is move around to rush the passer, whether it's from the right side or the left side. Half the time he is standing up while half the time he has a hand on the ground. It's not near as hard as people think it is to switch schemes. Wade Philips runs a 1-gap 3-4 so it is very similar to a 4-3 in gap disipline for the D-line, hence the easy transition for the defense. It's different than most other 3-4's like what Pittsburgh and Baltimore use because they run a 2-gap scheme.

So basically what I'm saying is that all you need to do is to address your needs by adding the right players, which for us would be CB, SS, and maybe NT (1-tech DT). Then you get the right coach with the right scheme to coach the players and then... WHOLLA! Your defense is fixed!

We will probably get these guys through the draft, which is the way I prefer the colts to do.

[IndyD4U]

Let's go after Rob Ryan (as HC) and get the personnel to implement the 3-4 defense in the off season then. Add a few guys the the secondary, plus a NT. I think we have the linebackers with Angerer, Conner, Wheeler and Sims.... Nevis looks to be an "in your face" NT...Why not?

Thoughts?

[Smitto]

You're glad we are 0-8 and may go 0-16!?!?!? Parcells never called the Defensive calls, even as a HC. He had Belichek as D coordinator who has complete control of the Defense and various coaches serving as O coordinator that called the plays. Polian is nothing more than a ot of control, has been egomanic that is slowly running the Colts into the ground. Where is Caldwell? Do he not even have the balls to confront Polian (especially since he will be gone after this season).

Of course i would have loved for this team to be successful, but its not and the colts have been very bad on defense for a long time and a season like this is what was needed for the FO to see that, so yes i am a bit glad they have this current record...

Who told you Polain called defensive plays? he doesnt, he's an evaluator and that includes evaluating the defense.. when i compared him to bill parcells i meant in his character and how he ran things... if you have watched Bill in his nfl career you would see that...

What is running the colts into the ground is lack of preparation, which the colts will fix.. the colts have finally hit a low so you can bet there will be changes... I like chris polian because his first year he has added three players that are contributing to this team and minimum cost.. i believe come next season this team is gonna look pretty darn good.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Let's go after Rob Ryan (as HC) and get the personnel to implement the 3-4 defense in the off season then. Add a few guys the the secondary, plus a NT. I think we have the linebackers with Angerer, Conner, Wheeler and Sims.... Nevis looks to be an "in your face" NT...Why not?

Thoughts?

Ummm... I'd rather stick to the 4-3. I don't want Rob Ryan to be the head coach because he thinks that Tom Brady is the best quarterback ever, which is just absurd...

[indyhawk]

Hmmm, personnel, huh? Seems to me we had a number 1 cornerback that we threw away at the beginning of camp that will be making a return trip home this weekend. I think both Hayden and Tryon would be doing better than what we are currently watching, don't you guys?

[MAC]

Questions:

Why is Bill Polian making defensive suggestions? That's the job for the DC.

Why did it take Bill Polian 10 years to see our scheme has been flawed?

Bill Polian isn't making defensive suggestions, he's managing all football operations. The coaching staff is hired BY Polian with full agreement of what general schemes they are going to run as a prerequisite of their employment. There can only be one person truly in charge in an organization, and Irsay gave that responsibility to Polian (just like in Boston it is Belichick, and in Dallas it is the owner himself - every team has someone.) He isn't egotistically over-reaching, he is doing his job. I think it is highly unlikely that he is micro-managing the defense, he's just speaking for the team and letting us fans know that the organization isn't any happier with the defense then we are, and that steps will be taken to fix it. What exactly would you prefer that he say or do?

It didn't take Polian ten years to see that our scheme was flawed, the scheme was only put in place after the LAST season in which we gave up more than 30 points per game. It was done for solid reasons, and the team has had nothing but success with it until now. And however much of that success you want to attribute to Peyton, don't forget that many of those years the defense was in the top ten in the league in points allowed, and the entire point of the scheme was to allow them to manipulate the salary cap to afford Peyton and his toys in the first place. The fact that this years team has issues and that they are considering changes does NOT mean that they have been using the wrong scheme for ten years. The league changes, available personnel changes, and you adjust. It is Polians job to recognize the need and lead the change.

[smittywerb]

So basically what I'm saying is that all you need to do is to address your needs by adding the right players, which for us would be CB, SS, and maybe NT (1-tech DT). Then you get the right coach with the right scheme to coach the players and then... WHOLLA! Your defense is fixed!

We will probably get these guys through the draft, which is the way I prefer the colts to do.

Courtland Finnegan, Pat Williams, and a player in the draft....done! We only really spend a lot of money on one player (finnegan).

[Andy]

May switch means Coyer's behind is on the line. Hope he gets the boot, and they better stop using this stupid scheme.

[MAC]

Hmmm, personnel, huh? Seems to me we had a number 1 cornerback that we threw away at the beginning of camp that will be making a return trip home this weekend. I think both Hayden and Tryon would be doing better than what we are currently watching, don't you guys?

I was disappointed to see them both go, but neither one is remotely a number one cornerback at this point. They aren't for their new teams, and the fact that they might have been for the Colts is just symptomatic of the problems. I'm sure that there were valid reasons for getting rid of both, just like with Sanders. Of course Sanders and Tryon are both now injured, so that would have just been more salary cap eaten up for nothing.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Maybe we should just go back to the defense that Coyer seemed to be running when he first came to the Colts. It sure did seem like the WR's were pressed in coverage as opposed to the 8-12 yard cushion that they are currently getting. Freeney & Mathis and others raved about the defensive change, but it seems after Dwight got hurt in the Super Bowl that they abandoned it for the softer Cover 2 and it doesn't seem they have given it much thought since.

[smittywerb]

Bill Polian isn't making defensive suggestions, he's managing all football operations. The coaching staff is hired BY Polian with full agreement of what general schemes they are going to run as a prerequisite of their employment. There can only be one person truly in charge in an organization, and Irsay gave that responsibility to Polian (just like in Boston it is Belichick, and in Dallas it is the owner himself - every team has someone.) He isn't egotistically over-reaching, he is doing his job. I think it is highly unlikely that he is micro-managing the defense, he's just speaking for the team and letting us fans know that the organization isn't any happier with the defense then we are, and that steps will be taken to fix it. What exactly would you prefer that he say or do?

It didn't take Polian ten years to see that our scheme was flawed, the scheme was only put in place after the LAST season in which we gave up more than 30 points per game. It was done for solid reasons, and the team has had nothing but success with it until now. And however much of that success you want to attribute to Peyton, don't forget that many of those years the defense was in the top ten in the league in points allowed, and the entire point of the scheme was to allow them to manipulate the salary cap to afford Peyton and his toys in the first place. The fact that this years team has issues and that they are considering changes does NOT mean that they have been using the wrong scheme for ten years. The league changes, available personnel changes, and you adjust. It is Polians job to recognize the need and lead the change.

On your arguement about Polian controlling the defense, he's doing that. When you sign a coach because you like the type of defense he runs, then that is controlling and picking based on preference. I understand he is the GM but you essentially draft and sign by caliber and quality, not because of a personal preference. You go out and sign who you think will make this organization succeed, the way the organization succeeds is for the coaches to handle. You bring up BB and Jerry Jones, PERFECT EXAMPLES FOR MY ARGUMENT. BB gets the players he wants, the GM signs them. JJ gets the players HE wants, JJ signs them. Get the point? I'm not saying what BP doing is wrong, he has the power.

Speaking about the 10 years thing, I was referring more to the fact that our defense (and team) has had the same problems for 10 years and it takes BP this long to FULLY address one of them. And also, it IS the scheme. Even if we had Revis at CB and Suh at DT, playing 7-10yds off the WR's will kill us! You said it yourself, the league changes so why are we using an outdated scheme that people has figured out?

And also pertaining to this "the defense was in the top ten in the league in points allowed", this was because at the time opposing teams thought it was best for them to run the ball and kill the clock in order to keep the ball out of Peyton hands (which didnt make a difference). Also, the "bend but dont break philosophy" allowed teams to drive the field which also took away time. In a nutshell, the leads PEyton gave us an easier time on defense and our games weren't really back and forth but more stop peyton and run the ball down their throats.

[Ramblinwreck7]

Courtland Finnegan, Pat Williams, and a player in the draft....done! We only really spend a lot of money on one player (finnegan).

I'd rather take someone else than Cortiland Finnergan, he doesn't seem to fit are organization with the way he sometimes acts. The only problem with Pat Williams is that he doesn't really offer a pass rush from the DT position, which is kind of what Antonio Johnson does.

The players that I would get are CB - Morris Claiborne, SS - Ray Ray Armstrong, and NT - Brandon Thompson. The difference between Thompson and Williams is that Thompson gets a great push from the DT position which allows him to get into the backfield.

If we need depth at NT though next year, then I'd be all for bringing in Pat Williams. From what I've heard though, his only value is as a run stopper, but we still need that anyways.

[smittywerb]

I'd rather take someone else than Cortiland Finnergan, he doesn't seem to fit are organization with the way he sometimes acts. The only problem with Pat Williams is that he doesn't really offer a pass rush from the DT position, which is kind of what Antonio Johnson does.

The players that I would get are CB - Morris Claiborne, SS - Ray Ray Armstrong, and NT - Brandon Thompson. The difference between Thompson and Williams is that Thompson gets a great push from the DT position which allows him to get into the backfield.

If we need depth at NT though next year, then I'd be all for bringing in Pat Williams. From what I've heard though, his only value is as a run stopper, but we still need that anyways.

I just said Courtland because I like that he brings a lot of attitude. I admit he does act out at times but I feel like the defense has been longing for that tough guy since the fall of Bob Sanders. It seems like every good defense has that tough guy. Not saying that is what makes a defense good, but that tough guy sets the tone for the rest of the players. (Brian Urlacher, Ray Lewis, Brian Dawkins, Pat Williams, Bob Sanders, etc.)

[GoGoColts]

I think that it is a forgone conclusion that Coyer is gone. We will stick with a 4-3 and maybe even somewhat small DTs, I would think that we would try to move to a Giant or Eagles style of defense.