Defensive Coordinator Prospects?

[rockywoj]

When Meeks was let go and Coyer brought in, I was very happy about the change and hopeful for a strong defensive future. That first year the defense looked improved, with more of an attack mentality.

Last year the defense very much regressed, but I was giving Coyer a free pass for the year because of all of the injuries.

This year, the team has again been hit by injuries, but there can no longer be a free pass issued. This is year three and by now, injuries or no injuries, the defense should be taking on the full character of its DC and the scheme should be well refined. This year the defense, though having a few moments here and there, continues to fail at getting off the field on 3rd down and they have simply looked out manned and out coached.

I am generally loathe to express knee jerk coaching change desires, but forgetting about Caldwell being brought into this discussion, I truly believe it is time to change Defensive Coordinator. The defense seems to be in dire need of an overhaul. My preference is for a more bravado, attacking in your face sort of scheme. My preference aside, though, I will take anything that delivers results.

Toward the goal of bringing in a new DC to turn this defense around and make it a championship calibur / game changing force to be reckoned with, what coaches are out there and reasonably available to be brought in to make the Colts mighty on D? Please enter your submissions and explain how your candidate qualifies.

If you think Coyer should be retained, then feel free to express that thought too, backed up with why you think that is the best route to go.

I'll throw a name out there, Mike Singletary, currently LB coach with the Vikings. He was a GREAT MLB and played on the best, most impactful defense I have ever seen (the 85 Bears). He coached the Ravens LBs before moving to SF to coach their LBs and also be assistant head coach. He then had a rather unsuccessful stint at 49er head coach, before being fired. Subsequently hired by the Vikings as their LB coach. I don't know if Singletary would make a good DC or not, but he certainly comes from a good pedigree with an attacking mentality and he has a lot of NFL coaching experience, granted, not as a DC. If he's committed to ever making it back as a head coach in the NFL, though, then the next logical step from being an LB coach would be to make a successful splash as a DC, ultimately leading to another shot down the road as a head coach. In the meantime, is Singletary a guy that could make a big, successeful DC splash with the Colts?

Your thoughts are welcome, as are your nominations for the DC job.

Edited October 26, 2011 by rockywoj

[chad72]

Steve Spagnuolos, possibly ex-head coach of the Rams at the end of the season, is No.1 on my list for coaching our 4-3 D as a DC. Mike Singletary is another interesting prospect.

Dennis Thurman is a name I would like to introduce, he is defensive backs coach of the NY Jets: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Thurman - pretty good resume, IMO. Saints' DB coach from the SB winning year is DC with the Broncos now, Tomlin who was a DB coach became head coach, same with Herm Edwards, same with Leslie Frazier.

[joo 2h]

Mike Singletary could not be a DC, It was already said. he does not have any type of play calling skills to do this job, This is why he did not get the DC job before on any other team. He can be a head coach, as he has the skill to lead a team, but play calling is not his thing.

[jskinnz]

Mike Singletary could not be a DC, It was already said. he does not have any type of play calling skills to do this job, This is why he did not get the DC job before on any other team. He can be a head coach, as he has the skill to lead a team, but play calling is not his thing.

1) How do you know he has no playcalling skills to do the DC job?

2) There is ample evidence that Singletary is not head coaching material at all.

[The Peytonator]

Singletary sure does sound good on paper, I just don't know much about his coaching style. If he is willing to shake things up a little bit. I like us to still run a 4-3, but I want the LBs to play closer to the LOS, and the CBs to play a much less conservative zone.

[Coltsfanman1953]

He couldn't be any worse than Coyer.

[Coltsagent]

my wish is Jeff Fisher HC, Tressel OC and Jack Del Rio as DC

[Jaric]

my wish is Jeff Fisher HC, Tressel OC and Jack Del Rio as DC

Ewwwwww

:thdown: on Jack Del Rio.

[Coltsagent]

Del Rio likes bigger, more physical players with his old middle linebacker attitude...they looked every bit as tough as the Ravens on MNF and the Jags every year have always been one of our toughest games. Jack was part of the 2000 Ravens. Imagine for a moment our D having a attitude?

[Blackhawk4]

my wish is Jeff Fisher HC, Tressel OC and Jack Del Rio as DC

No offense, but if your wish gets granted the colts complex will explode and fans will come with pitchforks.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Blackhawk4

[joo 2h]

1) How do you know he has no playcalling skills to do the DC job?

2) There is ample evidence that Singletary is not head coaching material at all.

I Dont really have the time to go look up some of the video of it, but if u like you can do your own search im sure you will find it

[Coltsagent]

Blackhawk...curious why do you think it would explode? I just want to see a change in attitude and not this poker face or "Quiet Strenght"

[chad72]

Ewwwwww

:thdown: on Jack Del Rio.

Be careful, some might expect you to agree with them or to take sensitivity training, they just can't handle ridicule

[jskinnz]

I Dont really have the time to go look up some of the video of it, but if u like you can do your own search im sure you will find it

I am not looking up stuff to prove your point. But when you do have the time, you will find that both of your assertations are unfounded.

[Jaric]

Del Rio likes bigger, more physical players with his old middle linebacker attitude...they looked every bit as tough as the Ravens on MNF and the Jags every year have always been one of our toughest games. Jack was part of the 2000 Ravens. Imagine for a moment our D having a attitude?

I've always thought he was borderline foolish to be honest. I'm with you on the attitude part, just don't personally want it coming from him.

If you get your wish though, I hope he keeps axes out of the locker room.

[BOTT]

Steve Spagnuolos, possibly ex-head coach of the Rams at the end of the season, is No.1 on my list for coaching our 4-3 D as a DC. Mike Singletary is another interesting prospect.

Dennis Thurman is a name I would like to introduce, he is defensive backs coach of the NY Jets: http://en.wikipedia..../Dennis_Thurman - pretty good resume, IMO. Saints' DB coach from the SB winning year is DC with the Broncos now, Tomlin who was a DB coach became head coach, same with Herm Edwards, same with Leslie Frazier.

spagnuolos was the first name i thought of also....

[BOTT]

Del Rio likes bigger, more physical players with his old middle linebacker attitude...they looked every bit as tough as the Ravens on MNF and the Jags every year have always been one of our toughest games. Jack was part of the 2000 Ravens. Imagine for a moment our D having a attitude?

everybody, with the exception of tony dungy, likes bigger, more physical players......

[21isSuperman]

I would love Spags here. Zimmer would be awesome too, look at what he has done in Cincy, though he may want a HC job instead of a coordinator job. After all, why would he leave the best defense in the league for the same coaching position with a worse defense? Singletary likes to run the 3-4 if I remember correctly, so I don't think he would fit in here.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bob retire (he's made it to the IR 3 or 4 years in a row, it's time to call it quits), then join our coaching staff as a DB coach...maybe defensive coordinator? He was here when our defense was at its peak...just a suggestion

[BOTT]

lets be honest...if you were an in demand defensive coordinator would you want to come to indy???

[Jason_]

For defensive coordinator you're going to basically have 2 types of guys to look at....guys who are currently position coaches and guys who are currently HC's that are going to be fired. Any coach that's currently a DC somewhere else is most likely going to want a promotion to HC in order to leave their current team.

I would welcome Jack Del Rio. Jacksonville's defensive philosophy isn't all that different from the Colts. They even run some Tampa 2 coverage when the time is right. Remember Del Rio played in Dungy's defense many years ago in Minnesota. Del Rio was also a LB coach for in Baltimore and then was DC in Carolina the year they went to the SB so he has a track record of coaching successful defenses.

Steve Spagnuolo would be awesome. He was at the top of my wish list during Dungy's final days before Caldwell was named successor.

Leslie Frazier is another name that has been mentioned several times and would be worth a look. I believe DB is also his area of specialty which would be nice considering the youth and inexperience in our secondary.

Bob Sanders is an interesting idea but imo he should start as a DB or assistant DB coach instead of going straight to DC.

Dennis Thurman is someone I've been looking at and I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere. Another DB coach I was looking at is Tim Walton of Detroit. The one thing that makes me lean more towards Walton is that Detroit runs a defense that is much closer to our 4-3 than the Jets' 3-4.

[Jaric]

lets be honest...if you were an in demand defensive coordinator would you want to come to indy???

Depends who the Head Coach is.

[Rashad]

I honestly think that we should keep cc as oc but try and get spags at dc because he is a goner if the dont pull off a certain amount of wins and then i think the colts should pull the trigger on gruden who has openly said he wants to coach manning or zimmer either of them i think would be great for the team the philosophy needs to change because having either the best qb or top 2 best qb in the history of the game and only coming out with one superbowl has to show something especially if this season already hasnt

[GwinnettColt]

I like:

1) Fisher

2) Spags

3) Del Rio (hadn't thought of this one until someone mentioned it earlier). I do like the attitude; we need it on our D. And yes, let's keep the axes out of the locker room.

I think pulling in a Rob Ryan, Cower (could be at Miami anyway), or Gruden at HC would be a mistake at this point due to the probability that they would implement the 3-4, which we don't have the personnel for.

I like the idea of a tough 3-4 but I don't think we would have much use for Freeney and Mathis in that scheme.

[HGRekks]

If the Colts go to a 3-4 (which is unlikely), I think Pepper Johnson is an interesting candidate. He has coached the linebackers and DL for the Pats, so he has a experience with some great coaches and great defenses. He's reportedly a very football savvy guy, and Vince Wilfork gives him a good deal of credit for his success. He's firey and has been described as a player's coach. He's one of my favorite DC candidates, so I have a bias, but I think he's the guy if a team wants to transition to a 3-4.

[Superman]

I am not looking up stuff to prove your point. But when you do have the time, you will find that both of your assertations are unfounded.

I disagree with you. Mike Singletary struggled with game situations and game management in San Francisco. I think he's a really good leader, and I think he knows his X's and O's on defense, but the way he made decisions for his team makes me question whether he'd be a good playcaller as a coordinator. Coming at it from the opposite direction, I think experience as a coordinator is what was missing as a head coach, which left him limited as a game manager. Position coaches focus more on technique; coordinators have to worry about situations, field awareness, etc.

I'd say Singletary would be better as a head coach, so long as he had an assistant who was on top of situations and helping him work through game management decisions. I wouldn't want him to be our coordinator, because I think there would be a learning curve of a year or two before he was adept at game management. I wouldn't want him to be our coach either, for the same basic reasons.

[Superman]

Blackhawk...curious why do you think it would explode? I just want to see a change in attitude and not this poker face or "Quiet Strenght"

I wouldn't necessarily mind a change in attitude, either, but that's certainly not the only thing on my list. It's probably not even top three. I think sideline demeanor and so-called "attitude" is overrated in football coaches.

[KingSky]

I think Tim Lewis, the secondary coach for the falcons or Rod Woodson would be good candidates. Lewis had success as a DC before and he's helped Atlanta's young secondary to develop quickly. I don't see Polian changing his priority of using a pass centric defensive scheme any time soon... especially with the league continually moving more pass oriented.

[GoGoColts]

I think that it needs to be a fired head coach or something Frasier, Spags, or somebody like that.

[Andy]

anybody...??? I mean it's not that hard to do better than Coyer

[Rich Cannon]

I wouldn't mind del rio, or Spagz, but it would take time for us to get the right pieces on D especially for spagnola.

[Superman]

I wouldn't mind del rio, or Spagz, but it would take time for us to get the right pieces on D especially for spagnola.

I think we have several of them already. Mathis, Freeney, Nevis, Conner, Wheeler, Bethea, Powers, all fit perfectly into anything Spagnuolo would do. Angerer might be moved back outside, but not necessarily. I like Lefeged, but he hasn't shown anything so far. I think Terence Johnson, Chris Rucker and Kevin Thomas all make really good sense for a defense that plays a significant amount of man coverage, which is what I expected to see us do at some point this season, rather than all the zone we've been playing.

Now, if you're going to bring in a guy like Cowher, or anyone else who wants to run a 3-4, we'd need a 0 tech tackle, which we don't have anything close to at this point. And we'd be rendering Freeney useless in everything except nickel and dime passing packages. Mathis too, to a lesser extent, as I've always believed Mathis could transition to 3-4 pass rusher and rush from a two-point stance. Much like what the Texans were doing with Mario Williams before he got hurt, only I think it would be much more natural for Mathis. And we already have Wheeler and Hughes, both of whom I think would make really good OLBs in a 3-4, so long as they're not in coverage any significant amount of time (see: Terrell Suggs). Only real issue is you still don't have the most important piece to a good 3-4, and that's a 0 tech tackle. And those don't exactly grow on trees.

But I think Wade Phillips is proving right now that the transition time to go to a 3-4 from a 4-3 doesn't have to be that long. Defensively, the Texans are 8th in total yardage, 5th in third down defense, 4th in sacks, 5th in passes defensed, 7th in interceptions, 8th in pass yardage, 5th in completion percentage. Most importantly, 5th in points allowed. This was a bad pass defense last season, and now they're among the best. Having a little trouble against the run, but they also aren't being run on nearly as often as they were last season. It's more a ypc issue because they'll give up a big run here or there. Those are the things that get better as time goes on and players get more comfortable in their new assignments. I'm not nearly as worried about the transition time after seeing what the Texans are doing this year compared to last. Only thing I'd be worried about is our lack of a 3-4 nose tackle.

[chad72]

Coming at it from the opposite direction, I think experience as a coordinator is what was missing as a head coach, which left him limited as a game manager.

Let me ask you this, could this be the same reason that left Jim Caldwell limited as a game manager too? If he were a DC or OC prior to him being an assistant head coach, I think he would have had more experience as a game manager before being made head coach, just a thought.

[chad72]

But I think Wade Phillips is proving right now that the transition time to go to a 3-4 from a 4-3 doesn't have to be that long.

The key was the Texans were willing to spend some serious money in free agency to shore up that secondary - Daniel Manning, Jonathan Joseph and then drafted a DE & OLB (J.J.Watt & Brooks Reed) to fill in the holes. The question is, will we ever do that? Maybe if our D hits rock bottom, which it has, we might give it a thought. The Texans' D did hit rock bottom before they decided to make that change.

Freeney and Mathis is the reason our 4-3 works, they will also be the reasons why it will be hard for us to move to a 3-4, IMO. Unless we are willing to part with one of them, it will be difficult for us to justify paying them a lot of money for limited use of them in a 3-4.

Edited October 27, 2011 by chad72

[BOTT]

The key was the Texans were willing to spend some serious money in free agency to shore up that secondary - Daniel Manning, Jonathan Joseph and then drafted a DE & OLB (J.J.Watt & Brooks Reed) to fill in the holes. The question is, will we ever do that? Maybe if our D hits rock bottom, which it has, we might give it a thought. The Texans' D did hit rock bottom before they decided to make that change.

Freeney and Mathis is the reason our 4-3 works, they will also be the reasons why it will be hard for us to move to a 3-4, IMO. Unless we are willing to part with one of them, it will be difficult for us to justify paying them a lot of money for limited use of them in a 3-4.

freeney and mathis are also part of the reason the colts defense is always porous against the run.

[Superman]

Let me ask you this, could this be the same reason that left Jim Caldwell limited as a game manager too? If he were a DC or OC prior to him being an assistant head coach, I think he would have had more experience as a game manager before being made head coach, just a thought.

Yes, I've been saying that for about a year now.

But then, you have a guy like Mike Tomlin who was never a coordinator, and he does just fine with game management. And you have a guy like Andy Reid who's been a head coach for years, and he sucks at game management. So what do I know? I just think it helps to be a coordinator before you're promoted to the top job.

[Superman]

The key was the Texans were willing to spend some serious money in free agency to shore up that secondary - Daniel Manning, Jonathan Joseph and then drafted a DE & OLB (J.J.Watt & Brooks Reed) to fill in the holes. The question is, will we ever do that? Maybe if our D hits rock bottom, which it has, we might give it a thought. The Texans' D did hit rock bottom before they decided to make that change.

Freeney and Mathis is the reason our 4-3 works, they will also be the reasons why it will be hard for us to move to a 3-4, IMO. Unless we are willing to part with one of them, it will be difficult for us to justify paying them a lot of money for limited use of them in a 3-4.

What you say about the Texans spending money and draft picks on their defense is true, but all of those players are easily duplicated. They could have added a mid level safety for less by signing Whitner, Joseph is good but not $48 million good, and I like JJ Watt and Brooks Reed, especially in Phillips defense, but neither of them are hard to find replacements for. Even Mario Williams isn't irreplaceable, and he's the best player on their defense, hands-down. They just manhandled the Titans without him. What they have that makes that defense possible, and what's so hard to find, is a good 0-tech nose tackle to anchor the 3-4. And I'm not talking about size, because size is overrated with regard to defensive tackles. The Texans still use a lot of 4-3 in passing situations, especially before Williams got hurt. So they're not completely reliant on a defiantly dominant nose tackle. But, without exception, the better your nose tackle, the better your 3-4. And we're nowhere near having the kind of guy who could anchor the kind of defense a 3-4 coordinator would want to run.

That's before you get to the fact that a 3-4 renders Dwight Freeney useless on half the defensive snaps.

[Jason_]

Yes, I've been saying that for about a year now.

But then, you have a guy like Mike Tomlin who was never a coordinator, and he does just fine with game management. And you have a guy like Andy Reid who's been a head coach for years, and he sucks at game management. So what do I know? I just think it helps to be a coordinator before you're promoted to the top job.

I believe Tomlin was DC in his final year with Minnesota.

[Superman]

I believe Tomlin was DC in his final year with Minnesota.

Yes he was. I forgot about that.

[IndySouth]

For defensive coordinator you're going to basically have 2 types of guys to look at....guys who are currently position coaches and guys who are currently HC's that are going to be fired. Any coach that's currently a DC somewhere else is most likely going to want a promotion to HC in order to leave their current team.

I would welcome Jack Del Rio. Jacksonville's defensive philosophy isn't all that different from the Colts. They even run some Tampa 2 coverage when the time is right. Remember Del Rio played in Dungy's defense many years ago in Minnesota. Del Rio was also a LB coach for in Baltimore and then was DC in Carolina the year they went to the SB so he has a track record of coaching successful defenses.

Steve Spagnuolo would be awesome. He was at the top of my wish list during Dungy's final days before Caldwell was named successor.

Leslie Frazier is another name that has been mentioned several times and would be worth a look. I believe DB is also his area of specialty which would be nice considering the youth and inexperience in our secondary.

Bob Sanders is an interesting idea but imo he should start as a DB or assistant DB coach instead of going straight to DC.

Dennis Thurman is someone I've been looking at and I think I mentioned in another thread somewhere. Another DB coach I was looking at is Tim Walton of Detroit. The one thing that makes me lean more towards Walton is that Detroit runs a defense that is much closer to our 4-3 than the Jets' 3-4.

Frazier has a history here as well:

"In 2005, Frazier was hired by Tony Dungy as a defensive assistant for the Indianapolis Colts, receiving the title of Special Assistant to the Head Coach as well as Defensive Backs Coach. He was specifically brought in by Dungy to help the Colts' young corps of defensive backs. During his time in Indy the Colts passing defense improved from 15th in 2005 to 2nd in 2006. On February 4, 2007 the Colts beat Frazier's former team, the Chicago Bears, in Super Bowl XLI. Four days later, on February 8, 2007, he became the defensive coordinator for the Minnesota Vikings following the hiring of Vikings defensive coordinator Mike Tomlin by the Pittsburgh Steelers as their head coach."

http://en.wikipedia..../Leslie_Frazier

He's probably not getting fired from his HC position just yet but it would be nice to have him back. I remember Dungy being very high on Leslie and making numerous comments about him being Head Coach material. I think, once Minnesota resolves their quarterback issues, they'll be good again. I don't think Frazier is holding that team back and I believe that they will have success under his leadership.

Fisher as the Head Coach and Del Rio as the Defensive Coordinator is an intriguing thought. It would certainly make us a more agressive team!

Edited October 28, 2011 by IndySouth

[hoosierguy20]

New here....so sorry if I'm just rambling. I like the idea of Frazier. Does Minny run a 4-3? I don't really think we go 3-4, but I'm not managment and I have no idea what they will do. I figure we stay 4-3. I also like the idea of Singletary. I guess my dream guy is Zimmer, but I don't see how he takes a lateral position. Maybe a college coordinator? I like how Alabama and LSU play, but don't know if we would dip into the college ranks or if those guys would even think about leaving a college powerhouse. Not necessarily NFL guys, but just a thought.