Shaping up next years roster. Lots of variables

[jwilli69]

So as the season is winding down and the colts are looking to win a Lombardi trophy, we all are wondering what will next year look like. I think there are 2 important factors in how we get shaped.

1. Our online has basically stunk it up all season with exceptions of a few games here and there. The line has to be repaired to become a more consistent offense. The main factor in how th team approaches the draft or FA is will Donald Thomas be the guard we trust to solidy his LG spot and even bigger, does the team believe Holmes will be the piece at center? I think the team will be ok with both tackles an seems content with Thorton at RG. If the answer to any one of those spots is a cause for concern, they have to go get a ______ to replace that spot in FA.

2. CB position. I would be shocked if we don't sign vonte to a high dollar contract but we have the cap to do that. As for Toler, he counts for 5mil I think and has done little for the team as he has been injured more than played. Can't do that and count on stiff neck Vaughn to fill in for him and expect solid defensive play. I would just cut this kid an make a play for another cover corner coming up and throw another 3 million to the already accounted for 5 million and solidly thy secondary. Butler too will require some cash on the basis of his play but he shouldn't get anything close to either one of those other 2 cb.

I think we gamble on the online being fine with the current players we have. I feel we are going to be fine next season at RB, WR, TE,OT and QB for sure. On defense, I feel we are really have the bigger question marks. I would assume the draft either targets a replacement for either Mathis (for the following season) or bethea. Redding is old and outside his vet presence, which is immeasurable, he is a weak spot and has to retire sooner than later. His spot could also be a target with that 2nd round draft pick.

I think the team re-signs Vinny and finally signs patty-Mack to an extension. I see toler and satele dropped for savings. Depending on how they see that online and our current players, I think that is the biggest factor in shaping the roster next season.

[Dark Superman]

Please drop Satele.

[jwilli69]

I can't see any scenario that would have this coaching staff not cut him. You can't pay for production or lack thereof from him. He provides very little value to the team other than knowing the calls. An offseason should allow a dolphin to learn the same thing.

[jmac_48]

C'mon Man, Stand pat on the Oline?

Cripes, Seriously, That fix has got to be the #1 priority and I don't see what we got being satisfactory!

 

It's sort of "damned if we do, even more damned if we don't" situation.

Fix it through FA and yeah it will be costly, but Luck will be protected, and the O will operate more efficiently.

Trusting the fix to come from within and development and the draft and Luck will continue to be in danger and the O could continue to struggle.

 

I don't like seeing salary cap problems cropping up, but I really don't want to go through another year with the Oline woes like the past two years. I see the FA route as the only way to go to get veteran starters and depth RIGHT NOW,

 

If it "breaks the bank" so be it, gotta be the #1 priority this off season if they really want this offense to be dominant.

That's my two bits, and I will be disappointed if something radical is not done!

[jwilli69]

C'mon Man, Stand pat on the Oline?

Cripes, Seriously, That fix has got to be the #1 priority and I don't see what we got being satisfactory!

It's sort of "damned if we do, even more damned if we don't" situation.

Fix it through FA and yeah it will be costly, but Luck will be protected, and the O will operate more efficiently.

Trusting the fix to come from within and development and the draft and Luck will continue to be in danger and the O could continue to struggle.

I don't like seeing salary cap problems cropping up, but I really don't want to go through another year with the Oline woes like the past two years. I see the FA route as the only way to go to get veteran starters and depth RIGHT NOW,

If it "breaks the bank" so be it, gotta be the #1 priority this off season if they really want this offense to be dominant.

That's my two bits, and I will be disappointed if something radical is not done!

Yeah I understand your viewpoint but knowing you can't fix it all using FA, you have to pick your best option and what the team currently has.

On the oline, we have the worst center in the league IMO with a better option (barely) in Mcgyln being abused at the guard spot. We have had to use Link and a late FA pick up OT guy to hold up the guard spot. We used the projected 2014 RG (Thorton) to replace the LG FA pick up Thomas after he went down early. The wild card here is where is Holmes in his development?? Huge question!! So in the cupboard we have Holmes, Thorton and Thomas for he online. Thornton got invaluable experience this year and Holmes was able to sit and learn the center position and calls while maintaining his confidence that he can play the game. Had they tossed him in early and he failed, that could have shattered his confidence and stunted his growth. Only the team knows what we have in Holmes.

My biggest concern is the talent on the defense. What players to develop or bring back next year gives you any hope that we can get better using them? Mathis will not be able to produce like this much longer, everyone knows that. Redding is running out of gas and maybe has next year but he's not a superstar anymore. Chapman is the anchor in the middle and still is learning. Werner has upside still. Davis is a star if we can re-sign him (everyone wants to be paid at the top) Bethea, will he be re-signed to a reasonable contract or look to replace him? FA or draft player? My point is way more questions on the defense than on the offense and I am one who has beat the drum this online has to be fixed for next year. I just feel like we have enough to be better on the offense and possible great with what we have than what we currently have on defense.

[jmac_48]

I hear you, the clock is ticking for the D, but it is not as pressing an issue as the Oline...

A top notch center, and depth would go a long way, give our young guys time to develop.

 

Things will get critical for the D end of next year, and things can be done in anticipation of that; FA & draft.

If the Oline gets fixed this year, and some pieces for the future with the D is addressed, the future for this team could be very bright!

 

Hopefully this can be done at "reasonable" cost because we are going to start paying for the class of 2012 soon enough.

 

Question: If an elite QB is worth 20 mil. per year, what's an elite Center worth?

QB not worth much if he is not upright and in the game???

[schwamm]

Yeah I understand your viewpoint but knowing you can't fix it all using FA, you have to pick your best option and what the team currently has.

On the oline, we have the worst center in the league IMO with a better option (barely) in Mcgyln being abused at the guard spot. We have had to use Link and a late FA pick up OT guy to hold up the guard spot. We used the projected 2014 RG (Thorton) to replace the LG FA pick up Thomas after he went down early. The wild card here is where is Holmes in his development?? Huge question!! So in the cupboard we have Holmes, Thorton and Thomas for he online. Thornton got invaluable experience this year and Holmes was able to sit and learn the center position and calls while maintaining his confidence that he can play the game. Had they tossed him in early and he failed, that could have shattered his confidence and stunted his growth. Only the team knows what we have in Holmes.

My biggest concern is the talent on the defense. What players to develop or bring back next year gives you any hope that we can get better using them? Mathis will not be able to produce like this much longer, everyone knows that. Redding is running out of gas and maybe has next year but he's not a superstar anymore. Chapman is the anchor in the middle and still is learning. Werner has upside still. Davis is a star if we can re-sign him (everyone wants to be paid at the top) Bethea, will he be re-signed to a reasonable contract or look to replace him? FA or draft player? My point is way more questions on the defense than on the offense and I am one who has beat the drum this online has to be fixed for next year. I just feel like we have enough to be better on the offense and possible great with what we have than what we currently have on defense.

I've been clamoring for more OL attention myself, but you bring up an interesting point.

That said, last year I argued for a moneyball approach to free agency (and got what I wanted). There were too many holes in too many places to spend top dollar at any one position.

This year, while I agree with you that there are still a lot of weak spots, they aren't filled by guys who wouldn't make any other NFL team like they were last year.

Last year, Grigs did a ton of work to raise the team's floor. This year, I expect he'll be working more on the ceiling. If it was me, I'd lock up all the current DBs, use the early draft for OL depth and DE future replacement, late draft for future replacements at OLB and WR, and try to nab the best studs at ILB and C in free agency.

[Warhawk]

Honestly, with Thomas and Thornton as the starters, I feel like we have decent options for depth at guard in Reitz, Link, Nixon, depending on who we decide to keep around.  Even McGlynn is an OK depth option because he can be decent backup center too.  If Thomas can get healthy, I feel like if we went after Alex Mack in FA to replace Satele, we'd pretty immediately have a very, very good O-line.

 

Not sure what that would cost, but we wouldn't have to make a lot of other moves for the O-Line, and it would be a significant upgrade to the unit as a whole.  I feel like we could get away with that as pretty much the only FA move on offense.  Maybe WR depth, but, otherwise we're fine, we've got 2 very good TEs, a fairly promising young WR corps with Wayne likely returning, Ballard coming back to compliment T-Rich and the possibility of re-signing Brown (probably not TOO expensive, we'll see though).  And then either Harnish will make the roster as the backup QB or we'll find someone cheap.  There's not a ton that needs to be done on offense.

 

Defense has a lot more areas of concern, but some are more pressing than others.  It'd be nice to look for replacements for Bethea, Mathis, and Redding, but that's not a real immediate need and we can relegate that kind of thing to the draft.  The greater concern at the moment is trying to shake out the ILBs and decide who we want on the roster next season.  Freeman, obviously, and then who else?

[gacker65]

I believe the O-line needs help.  Satele needs to go and either bring Holmes in or play Mcglynn or get a FA.

 

Our secondary needs help. Toler can't stay on the field due to injuries. Davis hasn't played up to the 2nd round we spent to get him, so if we resign him, then I suggest we sign him to a 1 year with incentives. Need to get Safety help, whether it is FA or in draft.

 

IMO, I do not believe we need a WR. At the start of the season, I did not believe we had Reggie's replacement on the roster, now IMO we do.

 

I agree, e need ILB help for Freeman.  There are some good ones in the draft.

 

To the point, in the off season IMO, we need to look at O-line help, CB (draft and FA), Safeties, ILB, and DE.

[Day at the Hilton]

I believe the O-line needs help. Satele needs to go and either bring Holmes in or play Mcglynn or get a FA.

Our secondary needs help. Toler can't stay on the field due to injuries. Davis hasn't played up to the 2nd round we spent to get him, so if we resign him, then I suggest we sign him to a 1 year with incentives. Need to get Safety help, whether it is FA or in draft.

IMO, I do not believe we need a WR. At the start of the season, I did not believe we had Reggie's replacement on the roster, now IMO we do.

I agree, e need ILB help for Freeman. There are some good ones in the draft.

To the point, in the off season IMO, we need to look at O-line help, CB (draft and FA), Safeties, ILB, and DE.

Disagree on vontae not playing up to the second round pick we gave for him. Who in the second round of the draft ( at or behind our pick) has done better?

[Warhawk]

Disagree on vontae not playing up to the second round pick we gave for him. Who in the second round of the draft ( at or behind our pick) has done better?

 

Perhaps more to the point, the Dolphins took a CB with the pick they got from us for Vontae Davis, and that guy has played in nine games, and averages 1/3 of a tackle per game.

[jwilli69]

I believe the O-line needs help. Satele needs to go and either bring Holmes in or play Mcglynn or get a FA.

Our secondary needs help. Toler can't stay on the field due to injuries. Davis hasn't played up to the 2nd round we spent to get him, so if we resign him, then I suggest we sign him to a 1 year with incentives. Need to get Safety help, whether it is FA or in draft.

IMO, I do not believe we need a WR. At the start of the season, I did not believe we had Reggie's replacement on the roster, now IMO we do.

I agree, e need ILB help for Freeman. There are some good ones in the draft.

To the point, in the off season IMO, we need to look at O-line help, CB (draft and FA), Safeties, ILB, and DE.

I will disagree about Davis not playing up to the 2nd rd pick and I'm sure many others will too. I am almost certain he would not be open to a one year deal and quite a few other teams will give the man a multi year contract and it will be over 6 mil/yr minimum. The question is going to be is he going to be ok with a 7mil/yr contract for 5 years or is he going to ask for the 10/yr kinda contact? I think we will have to way the pro/con of signing anyone not named Andrew Luck to that kinda contract. Despite his ups and downs, Davis is a top 10 cb and maybe in the 5 range. We need another pass rusher to compliment Mathis though and just maybe we have that with Werner. We also will have to pay Freeman and then can Mcnary be hi sidekick? He showed potential for sure. Safety is a concern as Bethea is in a contract year and sentimental reasons aside, he isn't worth top safety money and this is maybe where we just go with youth and plug Howell in that spot. We need that inside rush the qb for those pkgs on 3rd and longs to get sacks or force bad choices from those avg qbs who have killed us over the years.

We have holes but what team doesn't. The one thing I can say, New England does more with less than most any team in the league and that is a credit to BB and his game plan adjustments related to his players talent and to which type of team they are playing against. Just incredible what they have done this year. I hate that team!!

[gacker65]

Disagree on vontae not playing up to the second round pick we gave for him. Who in the second round of the draft ( at or behind our pick) has done better?

Off the top of my head, Larry Warford.

 

I understand that that we have been lacking good CBs for awhile, that even Davis looks good.  If he is as good as some think, then give him a 1 year deal with incentives and see ho well he does. If he does well, then sign him to a longer deal

[Smonroe]

Agree with most of it JWilli. I guess the question mark for me is what you touched on - Holmes. If he really is the answer, then we're okay. I'd rather have a proven guy like Mack.

You also made good points about the injured players. How do we know Thomas is going to play a whole season, Toler too? Throw in Allen while you're at it. Big IF, but if those guys are all healthy and play as we expect, we have very few holes to fill.

[jmac_48]

Off the top of my head, Larry Warford.

 

I understand that that we have been lacking good CBs for awhile, that even Davis looks good.  If he is as good as some think, then give him a 1 year deal with incentives and see ho well he does. If he does well, then sign him to a longer deal

Unfortunately this is Vontae's pay day year, If we don't pay him long term, he's gone.

No two ways about it. Somebody is going to offer him big bucks.

How much does he love playing for the Colts? Big bucks vs. Loyality.

 

In this day and age, sorry it's the big bucks that prevail.

[Warhawk]

Off the top of my head, Larry Warford.

 

I understand that that we have been lacking good CBs for awhile, that even Davis looks good.  If he is as good as some think, then give him a 1 year deal with incentives and see ho well he does. If he does well, then sign him to a longer deal

 

Why are you unhappy with Davis? He's played well. He had the 2nd best coverage rating among CBs this season according to PFF.

[gacker65]

I will disagree about Davis not playing up to the 2nd rd pick and I'm sure many others will too. I am almost certain he would not be open to a one year deal and quite a few other teams will give the man a multi year contract and it will be over 6 mil/yr minimum. The question is going to be is he going to be ok with a 7mil/yr contract for 5 years or is he going to ask for the 10/yr kinda contact? I think we will have to way the pro/con of signing anyone not named Andrew Luck to that kinda contract. Despite his ups and downs, Davis is a top 10 cb and maybe in the 5 range. We need another pass rusher to compliment Mathis though and just maybe we have that with Werner. We also will have to pay Freeman and then can Mcnary be hi sidekick? He showed potential for sure. Safety is a concern as Bethea is in a contract year and sentimental reasons aside, he isn't worth top safety money and this is maybe where we just go with youth and plug Howell in that spot. We need that inside rush the qb for those pkgs on 3rd and longs to get sacks or force bad choices from those avg qbs who have killed us over the years.

We have holes but what team doesn't. The one thing I can say, New England does more with less than most any team in the league and that is a credit to BB and his game plan adjustments related to his players talent and to which type of team they are playing against. Just incredible what they have done this year. I hate that team!!

IMO, Davis not in the top 10.  He does not get picked on, because the CB across the field has been worse than him.  When the other team has went after him, he has had problems.

 

As I understand that we have not had very good CBs for awhile that even an average CB is going to look good.  I suggest we give him a 1 year contract with incentives to see.  If he does well, then sign him to a long term deal.

[gacker65]

Why are you unhappy with Davis? He's played well. He had the 2nd best coverage rating among CBs this season according to PFF.

He is an average CB, IMO, that we will give him a long term contract that will leave us no way out, if or when we find some one better.

[husker61]

 

I understand that that we have been lacking good CBs for awhile, that even Davis looks good.  If he is as good as some think, then give him a 1 year deal with incentives and see ho well he does. If he does well, then sign him to a longer deal

 

posts like this make me want to hit my head against the wall. he is good, and he will be getting a long term deal from someone.

[GoColts00]

Honestly, with Thomas and Thornton as the starters, I feel like we have decent options for depth at guard in Reitz, Link, Nixon, depending on who we decide to keep around.  Even McGlynn is an OK depth option because he can be decent backup center too.  If Thomas can get healthy, I feel like if we went after Alex Mack in FA to replace Satele, we'd pretty immediately have a very, very good O-line.

 

Not sure what that would cost, but we wouldn't have to make a lot of other moves for the O-Line, and it would be a significant upgrade to the unit as a whole.  I feel like we could get away with that as pretty much the only FA move on offense.  Maybe WR depth, but, otherwise we're fine, we've got 2 very good TEs, a fairly promising young WR corps with Wayne likely returning, Ballard coming back to compliment T-Rich and the possibility of re-signing Brown (probably not TOO expensive, we'll see though).  And then either Harnish will make the roster as the backup QB or we'll find someone cheap.  There's not a ton that needs to be done on offense.

 

Defense has a lot more areas of concern, but some are more pressing than others.  It'd be nice to look for replacements for Bethea, Mathis, and Redding, but that's not a real immediate need and we can relegate that kind of thing to the draft.  The greater concern at the moment is trying to shake out the ILBs and decide who we want on the roster next season.  Freeman, obviously, and then who else?

 

I believe Bethea's replacement should be Ed Reynolds, Stanford. I also have been looking into Redding's replacement. Josh Mauro, Stanford or Taylor Hart, Oregon both look promising. Ed Stinson, Alabama as well. I think to get someone who could replace Mathis would take a high-1st Rd pick or FA. Another area I see is CB. I know Aqib Talib had some off-field issues early on, but no other CB has done as well against tall WR's. He limited Andre Johnson, Julio Jones, Jimmy Graham, and others. Talib, Davis, and Butler would be a fantastic CB mix. I agree with you on the ILB situation. Ramik Wilson, Georgia has looked good and could go in Rd 3 or 4.Or Perry Riley, Redskins in FA.

[throwing BBZ]

Disagree on vontae not playing up to the second round pick we gave for him. Who in the second round of the draft ( at or behind our pick) has done better?

 

Vontae IS leading the league in touchdowns allowed. Speed receivers have killed him.

He is very competitive otherwise. How to grade that?

[Day at the Hilton]

Off the top of my head, Larry Warford.

I understand that that we have been lacking good CBs for awhile, that even Davis looks good. If he is as good as some think, then give him a 1 year deal with incentives and see ho well he does. If he does well, then sign him to a longer deal

Ok so substitute warford for Mcglynn and Vaughn for Davis. Honestly idk which I would take but then again we would have signed another corner, but in 2013 we like needed Davis BAD. Powers was out a lot of the year and I don't think we make the playoffs with those backups.

[UKCOLT17]

Vontae IS leading the league in touchdowns allowed. Speed receivers have killed him.

He is very competitive otherwise. How to grade that?

 

just wondering were got that stat from try to find things like this but cant

[Superman]

Vontae IS leading the league in touchdowns allowed. Speed receivers have killed him.

He is very competitive otherwise. How to grade that?

 

Based on what?

[Dustin]

Based on what?

 

He's incorrect, but not far off.. But to be fair, most of those TDs were in the two game span of the Houston and St. Louis games.

 

But I don't believe on grading DBs by TDs surrendered anyway. It's just dumb IMO.

 

Vontae has given up 8 TDs, Joe Haden and Patrick Peterson have given up 7 and 6 respectively. It's the risk of running man coverage almost exclusively.

[Superman]

He's incorrect, but not far off.. But to be fair, most of those TDs were in the two game span of the Houston and St. Louis games.

But I don't believe on grading DBs by TDs surrendered anyway. It's just dumb IMO.

Vontae has given up 8 TDs, Joe Haden and Patrick Peterson have given up 7 and 6 respectively. It's the risk of running man coverage almost exclusively.

So for the sake of accuracy, Davis is not leading the league in TDs allowed, right?

I know Davis had a handful of bad games, but he was a rock most of the year. And he had some outstanding games as well.

[Dustin]

So for the sake of accuracy, Davis is not leading the league in TDs allowed, right?

I know Davis had a handful of bad games, but he was a rock most of the year. And he had some outstanding games as well.

 

He is not. There are two players who have surrendered 9 TDs.

[Indygal1218]

I've been clamoring for more OL attention myself, but you bring up an interesting point.

That said, last year I argued for a moneyball approach to free agency (and got what I wanted). There were too many holes in too many places to spend top dollar at any one position.

This year, while I agree with you that there are still a lot of weak spots, they aren't filled by guys who wouldn't make any other NFL team like they were last year.

Last year, Grigs did a ton of work to raise the team's floor. This year, I expect he'll be working more on the ceiling. If it was me, I'd lock up all the current DBs, use the early draft for OL depth and DE future replacement, late draft for future replacements at OLB and WR, and try to nab the best studs at ILB and C in free agency.

 

Would this be for development only?  I was under the impression that Grigson doesn't like to play rookie O-lineman.

[lennymoore24]

I just hope for some OLineman and another WR.

[ColtsFanCO]

Since everyone is so quick to cut ties with Toler I just want to remind everyone how well our secondary played to start the season when he was healthy.  We need to put his injury in perspective, its not like he has been in and out with multiple injuries.  He has had 1 injury that has kept him on the sidelines.  I dont hear anyone calling for Wayne, Thomas, Allen or Ballard to be replaced becuse they are missing several games.  All we have been told is that it was a groin injury so we dont know just how serious it was.  I dont see Grison cutting Toler unless the injury lingers into next year.  I also want to point out that we only have 3 CBs under contract for next year (Toler, Butler and Price).  Gordy is a RFA and most likely will be back.  Thats 2 less than what we currently have on the roster.  With that said I do think we need another CB that can play in Dime packages and can move up if there is an injury.  I look for Davis to be back and either a Rookie or FA (someone like Darrin Walls) to be brought in.

[schwamm]

Would this be for development only? I was under the impression that Grigson doesn't like to play rookie O-lineman.

In my opinion, if Thomas comes back healthy, and can stay that way, the line is in decent shape except at C.

"Drafting for depth", to me, means not starters, but guys who come in on a rotational basis to spell starters.

As for the impression that Grigs doesn't like to start rookie OL, I'm pretty sure you got that from posters misquoting our GM last year. I'm not going to dig up the quote, but from recollection, he was comparing OL to CB, and suggesting that the OL typically takes longer of the two to develop in the NFL. Posters misquoted him, suggesting he meant that he doesn't want to start rookie OL. But Thornton started most of this year... right?

[Dark Superman]

Davis has also been plaques by injuries as well.. But the kid is tough..

Can't always blame everything on the corner..

The defensive front has got to get pressure on the QB..

If not I don't care who you are.. You will get beat 9/10 times..

[colts_100nascar17fan]

Hopefully they dont overpay to keep davis cuz he is inconsistent. If they wanna fix the core problems without being cap strapped later down the road,I would draft a punter and or kicker unless those two accept cap friendly contracts,dont make sense to pay top dollar for a k and p when they can put that cash toward a must have free agent and or to resign butler. Draft ilb chris borland(wisconsin) at some point in draft(chris spielman like) sure tackler,great instincts,sideline to sideline,decent in coverage,healthy reliable,rarely makes mistakes,good blitzer,never stop motor. Take a chance on jarred abredarris wr (wisconsin) if he falls to us at some point,good hands n route runner,tall,good punt/kickoff returner,fast for white guy.

[CanuckColt]

C'mon Man, Stand pat on the Oline?

Cripes, Seriously, That fix has got to be the #1 priority and I don't see what we got being satisfactory!

 

It's sort of "damned if we do, even more damned if we don't" situation.

Fix it through FA and yeah it will be costly, but Luck will be protected, and the O will operate more efficiently.

Trusting the fix to come from within and development and the draft and Luck will continue to be in danger and the O could continue to struggle.

 

I don't like seeing salary cap problems cropping up, but I really don't want to go through another year with the Oline woes like the past two years. I see the FA route as the only way to go to get veteran starters and depth RIGHT NOW,

 

If it "breaks the bank" so be it, gotta be the #1 priority this off season if they really want this offense to be dominant.

That's my two bits, and I will be disappointed if something radical is not done!

True. ....and don't scatter half a dozen mid-priced FAs on O and D...just sign 2 or 3 really good ones...preferably 1 or 2 on the O-line....and pay them like we must.

We should look at a WR in FA because drafted ones take a year or two (or more) to get up to speed with the offense.  We can do better drafting all D.

[throwing BBZ]

So for the sake of accuracy, Davis is not leading the league in TDs allowed, right?

I know Davis had a handful of bad games, but he was a rock most of the year. And he had some outstanding games as well.

 

Oops! He was just a couple weeks ago, as they said on a TV broadcast. Sorry I don`t have access to PFF upgrade.

I have been satisfied with the trade generally. Like the guy and his overall ability. Kinda DUMB not to look at TD`s given up in an evaluation.

 Safe to say that MANY here have been a little concerned with ALL the Td`s because how badly he was beaten. Some effort concerns.

 So when Griggs grades him, is he a $5m CB a $7M CB, or ?? Griggs pays UP so far.

 

Is Griggs going to pay Satele $5m next year? It wouldn`t surprise me if Chuck gets a vote! ;)

[Superman]

Oops! He was just a couple weeks ago, as they said on a TV broadcast. Sorry I don`t have access to PFF upgrade.

I have been satisfied with the trade generally. Like the guy and his overall ability. Kinda DUMB not to look at TD`s given up in an evaluation.

 Safe to say that MANY here have been a little concerned with ALL the Td`s because how badly he was beaten. Some effort concerns.

 So when Griggs grades him, is he a $5m CB a $7M CB, or ?? Griggs pays UP so far.

 

Is Griggs going to pay Satele $5m next year? It wouldn`t surprise me if Chuck gets a vote! ;)

 

TDs allowed matter, absolutely. But every stat has context. It was really three or four bad games by Davis, and the rest were good to great. I'll take that.

 

As for the money, I think $7-8m/year is what he should get. Wouldn't surprise me if he gets more, but I'll reserve judgment until I see details. If Grigson lets him walk and he signs for $10m/year like Carr and Finnegan and Joseph, I'm fine with that. I think they're overpaid, and I don't think he should get that kind of money.

 

Satele, I'm convinced he'll be released.

[gacker65]

Ok so substitute warford for Mcglynn and Vaughn for Davis. Honestly idk which I would take but then again we would have signed another corner, but in 2013 we like needed Davis BAD. Powers was out a lot of the year and I don't think we make the playoffs with those backups.

 

Ok so substitute warford for Mcglynn and Vaughn for Davis. Honestly idk which I would take but then again we would have signed another corner, but in 2013 we like needed Davis BAD. Powers was out a lot of the year and I don't think we make the playoffs with those backups.

I understand what you are saying and I am not saying he is bad, but I do not want to give a long term, top 10 money to an average CB.

 

I am hoping that we go for another CB and Safeties.  IN FA or draft, either will work.

[Superman]

I understand what you are saying and I am not saying he is bad, but I do not want to give a long term, top 10 money to an average CB.

 

I am hoping that we go for another CB and Safeties.  IN FA or draft, either will work.

 

Thing is Davis is above average, and at 25, he has a higher ceiling.

 

I don't want to give him $10m/year, but it's harder to quantify what you mean by "top 10 money," because there's a big spread in that top 10. Revis is making $16m/year, and Cromartie is tenth, making $8m/year. Throw out Revis as an outlier, and even throw out Bailey since his is an older contract (and won't exist in a couple months), and now you're looking at a difference of $10m/year for Carr and $7.3m/year for Carlos Rogers.

 

The CB market took a big dip last offseason, so I really don't know what to project for Davis. Guys like Talib, Smith, Williams and Grimes all got $5-6m/year on short term deals.

[throwing BBZ]

TDs allowed matter, absolutely. But every stat has context. It was really three or four bad games by Davis, and the rest were good to great. I'll take that.

 

As for the money, I think $7-8m/year is what he should get. Wouldn't surprise me if he gets more, but I'll reserve judgment until I see details. If Grigson lets him walk and he signs for $10m/year like Carr and Finnegan and Joseph, I'm fine with that. I think they're overpaid, and I don't think he should get that kind of money.

 

Satele, I'm convinced he'll be released.

 

 I was impressed with Gordy last game. Chuck is supposed to be a secondary guru. Guys improve! 4.4 speed!

 We need hidden gems!

 $10M for Finnegan blew my mind. I love a deep roster!!!!!!!!! Strength at every position please.

 Player developement.

 Year one didn`t count for much with little lattitude and new schemes. Arians O, UGH!

  Holmes will shock the World at Center, if he is allowed.