RGIII

[amfootball]

He's got as big an arm as anyone, he runs well, he's big and athletic... the physical tools are not at question. I think he's doing a great job.

 

Last night can be his big "I'm here" moment, if he doesn't go backward. He did a good job against a pretty good defense, with the game on the line. 

Yes, those were my thoughts as well. Last night was big for him but really he has been playing well all year.

[amfootball]

If the Panthers have been terrible, why didn't he chuck them over his shoulders and lead them to the play-offs. I know a rookie QB who had a terrible D, and very poor run game. He managed it.  And you think he needs to prove the IT factor? Mmmmm. You don't really prefer him over Luck, do you, you just can't let yourself acknowledge..........oh never mind.

I like Luck a lot but he had a lot of help last year from one Mr. Reggie Wayne. You have seen the difference already the last three games since he has been gone? A team is never led by one man. Qbs are central but the team helps any QB win.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

i dont care about iq. i care if he can read defenses, dont mind if he can barely sum

 

 

i mean, peyton manning does not have half the physical atributes cam does...who would you take?

funny because Luck has been pretty bad at picking up/pointing out blitzes this year IIRC from what a few posters have said. Cam looks the part, hes been making great reads all year. He had that 1 forced throw into triple coverage yesterday that was stupid but than again Luck made that exact throw to Reggie and it was picked off. 

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

I wouldn't put wins on the qb all the time. Otherwise Mr. Manning isn't that great of a qb, which is ridiculous to say. 

[Superman]

RGIII is a one-read QB. Plain and simple. I believe that announcers on a game I watched of the Redskins earlier in the season even stated this. He got away with it last year when the read-option confused defenses to the point that his first read was always there (not to mention wide open half the time it seemed), but defenses have adjusted, while RGIII has not. Maybe that's partly on the play-calling, but him openly voicing his frustration with it to the media would make me very alarmed as a Redskins fan.

 

He has a long way to go, and I definitely would say he is behind every other starting QB of his class, including Tannehill.

 

I can't go that far. That's definitely the way the Redskins are using him, and maybe that's all the proof we need. But at this point, I have to put the onus on the passing scheme, not the QB. They don't ask him to be a progression based passer.

[Mameluc]

funny because Luck has been pretty bad at picking up/pointing out blitzes this year IIRC from what a few posters have said. Cam looks the part, hes been making great reads all year. He had that 1 forced throw into triple coverage yesterday that was stupid but than again Luck made that exact throw to Reggie and it was picked off. 

so posters know right? they might be as wrong as i am lol.

 

 

And cam looked the part his rookie year, and completely looked lost for about 12 games last year. IM waiting for 1 more season, im not saying he sucks.

[Qwiz]

Yes, those were my thoughts as well. Last night was big for him but really he has been playing well all year.

Nope. There's no hope for the second-year guy. Everything he did last year was trickery. Burn him on the stake.

[Dustin]

Nope. There's no hope for the second-year guy. Everything he did last year was trickery. Burn him on the stake.

 

wat

[Qwiz]

wat

Nothing just having fun with the topic the thread has veered towards lol

[Dustin]

Nothing just having fun with the topic the thread has veered towards lol

 

lol i get that, but the comment you quoted was talking about Cam Newton that's why I thought it was kind of weird lol

 

sounded like you were referring to bobby 3 sticks

[Qwiz]

lol i get that, but the comment you quoted was talking about Cam Newton that's why I thought it was kind of weird lol

 

sounded like you were referring to bobby 3 sticks

It was a long day at the office. That's my excuse. :cool:

[stat2883]

I can't go that far. That's definitely the way the Redskins are using him, and maybe that's all the proof we need. But at this point, I have to put the onus on the passing scheme, not the QB. They don't ask him to be a progression based passer.

agree with both of you posts here Sup

RO "fad" as some put it...yeah its being defended and causing problems, but that isn't due to scheme; its due to execution. Just bugs me when something as perfectly viable as the read option is still being called a gimmick and fad just because the two main QBs running it last year aren't developed enough yet to run other things to keep defenses honest. Anyone can sell out to stop something, doesn't mean its a fad or gimmick. General statement, nothing towards your post Sup.

As for Griffin, he's still slow at going through his progressions, but on a number of plays, there's only 2 or 3 people in patterns, and even with 7 protecting, the interior OL is getting pushed back into his lap, and part of that is due to the depth of the play-action from the pistol. Not ideal when your guards can't hold their own. Also like RGIII said here in an earlier post, it looks like he's having some mental issues yet when it comes to delivering the ball, and it looks to me that he's sometimes seeing ghosts in the pocket after some of the beatings he took standing back there. Sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, other times he bails when he doesn't have to. Just some of the maturation a young passer has to go through since he didn't come up in a pro system. None of this was unknown coming into the league

[IndyScribe]

Rams made a good choice in getting rid of RG3.

[Dudley Smith]

I can't go that far. That's definitely the way the Redskins are using him, and maybe that's all the proof we need. But at this point, I have to put the onus on the passing scheme, not the QB. They don't ask him to be a progression based passer.

 

You may be right. It might be the scheme. Just in the couple of games I have seen Griffin this year (Cowboys and Broncos), I only remember him looking to one receiver on almost every pass play, and if it wasn't there, him making a bad play. I can't remember which of those games it was, either Collinsworth or Simms said this same exact thing-- that he essentially only ever made one read, and if wasn't there, he struggled. I have no idea what the Shannahans are asking or not asking him to do, but whatever it is it obviously isn't working this season.

[ColtKangaroo]

I think he'll be fine, he's never gonna run the ball as much as he did last year, but he's got a good arm and has the technique.

[HtownColt]

Santana Moss basically telling RGIII to take some blame when he was on a local radio show Tuesday.

"If we're going to win games, we need to win games with our guy saying, 'At the end of the day, I didn't make a play,' regardless of if it wasn't him," Moss said on the "LaVar and Dukes" show. "And that's how I feel. Because that's what we're out there to do."

"As a leader, you understand that if you're involved in the situation, whether you're the receiver, the quarterback, the guys making the tackle, whoever -- regardless of the outcome, good or bad, you have to at some point, stand up and say me or I," Moss said.

"I don't need to be going back and forth in the media about who didn't do this and who didn't do what," Moss said. "At the end of the day, I was seen with the ball in my hand last, as a quarterback I'm saying, and if it didn't get done then I'm going to let you know it was me. Whether it was me or not. It was me. And I'm going to get better. And we're going to get better together."

[smittywerb]

Sucks that the redskins gave up so much to get him because it's gonna be hard to build a team around him.

[HungarianColtsFan]

He's like Trent Richardson. Horrible offensive line but makes mistakes himself without admitting it. 

 

Even Santana Moss thinks RGIII should take his share of blame:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/10004285/santana-moss-washington-redskins-wants-robert-griffin-iii-take-more-responsibility

 

 

Edit: I've fumbled Moss' name...

Edited November 20, 2013 by HungarianColtsFan

[HungarianColtsFan]

Basically my opinion was covered in previous comments, apart from I don't think he was 'terrible' or average. He should fit in traditional NFL offense, manage games and show leadership poise. 

 

Anyway,IMO he hadn't deserved ROY last season, however I may be biased. Luck already had all the skills to become elite NFL QB last season, but 11-5 record was accounted to 'Chuckstrong', however emotions won't win games...talent does!

[Luck2Wayne12]

He's been awful this year, but I think he'll be better next year.  his knee might be back to almost 100%, but his head isn't.  he's looked lost this year, poor accuracy, and a bad attitude.  He had none of those problems last year.  I believe Griffin led the NFL in completion percentage through the first 13 weeks of 2012 season.

 

He definitely ain't no Andrew Luck or Russell Wilson, but maybe being able to work on his game this off-season (he didn't work out at all this past off-season) will help him some.

[Drastik]

I think saying Tannehill or Kaepernick are better than Griffin is little bit of a stretch... kaepernick has been AWFUL.

 

Also, out of all the "young" QB's who all get compared, Griffin is easily in the hardest position to succeed. He's certainly got the worst defense and worst offensive line... and probably the worst group of wide receivers.

 

He's also playing in Washington, DC.... where the spotlight is ALWAYS on the guy. He could decline an interview and it would probably make the front page of ESPN... he doesn't have the luxury of a little bit of anonymity that guys like russell wilson or even Luck have. 

 

Griffin is also the youngest out of all other QB's by at least a year I think, he's only 22 or 23 if i'm not mistaken. I think he will be fine ultimately. 

 

Going into this season I expected the Redskins to fall back down to reality... they really have not been able to upgrade their team in free agency for the past 2 or 3 years due to the salary cap penalties, so all of their additions have been essentially draft picks. With the cap penalty being removed this year, I think I read somewhere that the Redskins will have upwards of $40 million in free cap space. I expect them to heavily upgrade their OL and at least be able to field a mediocre defense... and push for a playoff spot in 2014. 

[AntonMcG]

RG3 is being limited by Kyle Shanahan, quite simply. He still has superb abiltiy and huge upside. Outside of Luck, I would still take him over any other young QB in the league.

 

How can you be expected to go through your progressions when you rarely have more than two receiving options.

 

Horrible offensive scheme.

[Drastik]

Outside of Luck, I would still take him over any other young QB in the league.

 

 

agreed... i'm not sure how anyone could say they'd take tannehill over griffin... that's just bitter spite.. lol.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

RG3 is being limited by Kyle Shanahan, quite simply. He still has superb abiltiy and huge upside. Outside of Luck, I would still take him over any other young QB in the league.

 

How can you be expected to go through your progressions when you rarely have more than two receiving options.

 

Horrible offensive scheme.

I agree with you except I would take Newton and Wilson over RG3.

[Drastik]

I agree with you except I would take Newton and Wilson over RG3.

Do you think if you inserted Russell Wilson or Cam Newton as Washington's QB that they would fare better? 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Do you think if you inserted Russell Wilson or Cam Newton as Washington's QB that they would fare better? 

Yes.

[Dudley Smith]

Do you think if you inserted Russell Wilson or Cam Newton as Washington's QB that they would fare better? 

 

How can you not think Wilson is better than RG3 at this point? Yes, he plays on a much better team which has helped, but he also makes much better decisions with the ball. Who knows where all of them will be in 10 years, but right now Wilson is undoubtedly better.

[Drastik]

Based off what I've seen from from all the QB's mentioned, I wouldn't... 

 

Not to take anything away from Russell Wilson, but he's probably got the easiest QB job in the NFL... 

 

Russell Wilson can throw for 80 yards and still win by 20 points.

 

RG3 has to have a near flawless game, and put up nearly 35-40 points for the Redskins to even have a chance at winning... 

 

Let's be fair a little...

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Based off what I've seen from from all the QB's mentioned, I wouldn't... 

 

Not to take anything away from Russell Wilson, but he's probably got the easiest QB job in the NFL... 

 

Russell Wilson can throw for 80 yards and still win by 20 points.

 

RG3 has to have a near flawless game, and put up nearly 35-40 points for the Redskins to even have a chance at winning... 

 

Let's be fair a little...

I not basing my choice of QB on wins, or stats, but solely on how good I think their are as quarterbacks.  I think Wilson is leaps and bounds better than RG3.  Wilson is far superior at reading coverages, he's a much smarter player, better game manager,  is a better teammate and leader, and is almost as athletic.  Newton I would take over RG3 but by a much smaller margin.

[BOTT]

Based off what I've seen from from all the QB's mentioned, I wouldn't... 

 

Not to take anything away from Russell Wilson, but he's probably got the easiest QB job in the NFL... 

 

Russell Wilson can throw for 80 yards and still win by 20 points.

 

RG3 has to have a near flawless game, and put up nearly 35-40 points for the Redskins to even have a chance at winning... 

 

Let's be fair a little...

It's not helping when the redskins offense can't even score in the first half

[Drastik]

I not basing my choice of QB on wins, or stats, but solely on how good I think their are as quarterbacks.  I think Wilson is leaps and bounds better than RG3.  Wilson is far superior at reading coverages, he's a much smarter player, better game manager,  is a better teammate and leader, and is almost as athletic.  Newton I would take over RG3 but by a much smaller margin.

Eh.... basically everything you named is subjective... I don't see how it can be proven that he's better at any of those qualities... 

 

When I watch russell play, I see a guy who is great at buying extra time in the pocket and extending plays... he's also probably the best in the league when it comes to throwing 5 yard touchdown passes.... I swear he's gotta have atleast 10 of those this year... lol.... 

 

But on a serious note, I havn't seen any conclusive evidence that wilson reads coverages better... he really doesnt have to... or that he's a better team mate or leader... we aren't in either locker room so theres no way to guage that...  and Wilson is not nearly as athletic as Griffin... Griffin is a guy who's a lot bigger and a lot faster (I can't say stronger because we have nothing to guage their strength on).. Griffin is also an Olympic caliber sprinter/hurdler... I recall reading something saying he was #1 in the country before giving track up to pursue football full time... 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Eh.... basically everything you named is subjective... I don't see how it can be proven that he's better at any of those qualities... 

 

When I watch russell play, I see a guy who is great at buying extra time in the pocket and extending plays... he's also probably the best in the league when it comes to throwing 5 yard touchdown passes.... I swear he's gotta have atleast 10 of those this year... lol.... 

 

But on a serious note, I havn't seen any conclusive evidence that wilson reads coverages better... he really doesnt have to... or that he's a better team mate or leader... we aren't in either locker room so theres no way to guage that...  and Wilson is not nearly as athletic as Griffin... Griffin is a guy who's a lot bigger and a lot faster (I can't say stronger because we have nothing to guage their strength on).. Griffin is also an Olympic caliber sprinter/hurdler... I recall reading something saying he was #1 in the country before giving track up to pursue football full time... 

We can agree to disagree, but if I was drafting a qb for my franchise and the option was Russell or RG3, I would take Russell and never look back.

[BrentMc11]

What's happened to Bob is exactly what I said would happen last yr.. Many people bought into his hype and Bob bought into it too. I took a lot of crap from Bob's worshipper's last season for saying once defense's catch up with what the Skins were doing, Bob would be nothing but average. He hasn't even been that so far this yr.. Don't go by only his stats, his stats are highly skewed because he's been able to make them look better than they really are because the only time's he's been effective was during garbage time because the Skins keep getting blown out.

I have always liked RG3 and still like to watch him play!

 

I was right there with you last year in this discussion.  We both battled it out...I got hammered on my philosophies on defensing The Pistol...the Read etc.  I was even referred to as Gregg Williams

 

RG3 has looked better after an awful start.  He was not comfortable in the pro-stly offense when he was about 80%.  How healthy is he now....does anybody know?

[Superman]

Eh.... basically everything you named is subjective... I don't see how it can be proven that he's better at any of those qualities... 

 

When I watch russell play, I see a guy who is great at buying extra time in the pocket and extending plays... he's also probably the best in the league when it comes to throwing 5 yard touchdown passes.... I swear he's gotta have atleast 10 of those this year... lol.... 

 

But on a serious note, I havn't seen any conclusive evidence that wilson reads coverages better... he really doesnt have to... or that he's a better team mate or leader... we aren't in either locker room so theres no way to guage that...  and Wilson is not nearly as athletic as Griffin... Griffin is a guy who's a lot bigger and a lot faster (I can't say stronger because we have nothing to guage their strength on).. Griffin is also an Olympic caliber sprinter/hurdler... I recall reading something saying he was #1 in the country before giving track up to pursue football full time... 

 

That bolded part is key. Buying time and extending plays, and then making the throw to an open receiver, is what sets him apart from Griffin. And he's able to do that because he's playing in a progression based passing system, and Griffin is not. Griffin's passing scheme is read #1, read #2, take off. That's not necessarily his fault, it's due to the abundance of two man routes only using one side of the field that the Redskins call. Open up the whole field, let him go 3 and 4 deep, and give him a checkdown, and we'll see whether he has the ability to work a pro passing game the way Wilson does. But as of right now, Wilson does a much better job reading coverages and going through progressions. Whether that's because Griffin isn't capable or not, I don't know. As of right now, it's because their passing schemes are very basic.

 

As for their body types, I'd take Wilson's over Griffin's, when it comes to taking hits. I'd usually prefer the taller guy, but Griffin's frame is so slight that he really doesn't take contact well. When he gets hit, it always looks bad. I'd rather have the shorter, thicker guy, when it comes to durability. As for pure pocket passing, if Griffin is ever allowed to do that, his height will be an advantage.

 

No question Griffin is faster. He's one of the fastest guys in the league at any position. I'm not sure that the difference in speed between him and Wilson will serve to make him a better QB. Wilson has adequate speed to run when he wants/needs to.

[Superman]

agree with both of you posts here Sup

RO "fad" as some put it...yeah its being defended and causing problems, but that isn't due to scheme; its due to execution. Just bugs me when something as perfectly viable as the read option is still being called a gimmick and fad just because the two main QBs running it last year aren't developed enough yet to run other things to keep defenses honest. Anyone can sell out to stop something, doesn't mean its a fad or gimmick. General statement, nothing towards your post Sup.

As for Griffin, he's still slow at going through his progressions, but on a number of plays, there's only 2 or 3 people in patterns, and even with 7 protecting, the interior OL is getting pushed back into his lap, and part of that is due to the depth of the play-action from the pistol. Not ideal when your guards can't hold their own. Also like RGIII said here in an earlier post, it looks like he's having some mental issues yet when it comes to delivering the ball, and it looks to me that he's sometimes seeing ghosts in the pocket after some of the beatings he took standing back there. Sometimes he holds onto the ball too long, other times he bails when he doesn't have to. Just some of the maturation a young passer has to go through since he didn't come up in a pro system. None of this was unknown coming into the league

 

Yup, we went over this a few months ago. I'm liking the read option more and more. And when you watch how the Panthers ran it Monday night, with built in pass options, it shows just how dangerous it can be when you have the QB for it. Doesn't ever have to result in a QB keeper. I still wish the Colts would add some of those wrinkles, not for keepers, but to vary their play action and strongside run game.

[SilentHill]

I get where you are coming from but the Panthers have been terrible in Newton's first two seasons. He looks like a different QB this season because they have had the great defense and run game. I like his physical tools better than the other young Qbs but he does still need to prove the IT factor which he did last night leading the Panthers on the game winning drive in the fourth.

 

I'd rather have Cam Newton than Tom Brady, wouldn't you?

[Balzer40]

agreed... i'm not sure how anyone could say they'd take tannehill over griffin... that's just bitter spite.. lol.

What does it matter to you that somebody might take Tannehill over Bob3? I myself do not believe that Bob3 has what it takes to become a great NFL QB. You can disagree all you want, but you will not change my mind. I've been around way too long and seen so many "next great athletic QB" nonsense, just to see them crap out and be a total bust. Bob might be a serviceable QB for a long time but IMO that is his ceiling. He's a serious injury waiting to happen and his arm skills are not what people thought they were. Disagree all you want but only Bob3 can change my mind. Im not willing to bet he will.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Yup, we went over this a few months ago. I'm liking the read option more and more. And when you watch how the Panthers ran it Monday night, with built in pass options, it shows just how dangerous it can be when you have the QB for it. Doesn't ever have to result in a QB keeper. I still wish the Colts would add some of those wrinkles, not for keepers, but to vary their play action and strongside run game.

I was actually thinking about the Colts doing this once the playoffs started,  no one would have any film of us doing it, and it would catch the defense completely by surprise.

[Superman]

I was actually thinking about the Colts doing this once the playoffs started,  no one would have any film of us doing it, and it would catch the defense completely by surprise.

 

It absolutely would. One weakside run by Luck, even with a pass option, and defensive coordinators would go nuts. Then we could start pulling strongside like crazy and get some space for our running backs. 

[stat2883]

...get some space for our running backs.

Philly has been doing this exceptionally well this year, and it shows in McCoy's stats. Being up here in the NW the last couple years I saw Kelly's Oregon offense up close quite a bit. I knew he'd have to make some changes going into the NFL, but I knew McCoy would be a great back for him.