Where's Wald(o)en?

[Coffeedrinker]

How about the coaches decide who plays instead of a group of arm chair quarterbacks on the internet.  

 

So all we can do on a message board is praise the coaches and the team?

[Nostrils]

Well from what I have been able to gather from reading this board and the people who think Walden is worth every penny his job is to set the edge.  And those people claim that he is very good at setting the edge.  Now, by watching his play I have concluded that setting the edge means engaging a blocker as the running back runs right past the set edge adn then turning and chasing at half speed.  Now I played and coached for a lot of years and I have never had a position description like that, but all these newfangeled NFL defenses have so many specialty type positions that I can't keep up.

 

I think he's been doing a good job.  I'm not going to give anyone a hard time on here about the whole motor thing and wanting to see him going 100% to the whistle, but it's a totally different ball game.  I'd love nothing more than to have this defense on the same page where they understand they have the athleticism and speed where if they rally to the ball, they will be amazing, but I just feel like that's High School or College stuff...  and I'm not saying it, like, it's me personally against it, but I believe the whole "hustle" thing is a joke in pro sports.  For example, we (announcers, fans, sports anchors, etc. etc.) celebrate the guys who basically do hustle all out , and it's like "are you serious??? they ALL should be going all out, all the time, making that kind of money, living the life and doing 'what they love!'" pshh lol. so in that sense I just think we are expecting too much, but just had to ramble about it for a moment.  but I do feel he is going all out until the play is basically over, and at the point running towards a pile with men all around on the ground, as the runner is pretty much done is like meh.. no issue with that, here personally, but I def understand you guys.

 

and as far as setting the edge and his responsibility, none of us know, but just from being told to basically contain/set edge when I played just wanna share a little from my experience.

 

I played the "Rover" position, so I was either SS or OLB depending on the formation, obviously.  And depending on the action of the play & what the linemen were doing off the snap we were setup so that on certain plays (and both were from OLB position):

 

I would fill from the outside-in (between the D Tackle and Defensive End and basically be there for the tackle, a lot of time I was just free, 1 on 1 with the runner, because everyone basically did their responsibility to roam through untouched, but if they had someone pulling or leading the way through, I HAD to make sure I took them on with my inside shoulder, "keeping my outside arm free" (is how they would describe it) and make sure it is turned back inside at all costs, nothing gets outside... and if they did take off for a nice gainer up the middle I clearly remember, after being like uh-oh... I'd never get yelled at because the main job of me and the DE was to contain (once it was clear i wasn't option 1 on the tackle, and lets remember it all happens SO FAST), while the Nose and DT wrecked everything inside as best as they could to keep blockers off of the MLB's so they could clean up.

 

Or, they would just have me set the edge like Walden on that clip/gif or whatever it is.  Either way I just remember being told that on run plays, I let nothing outside of me, I do feel that a HUGE difference (and again, it's different levels, it doesn't compare) was that we had 2 stud MLB's who were capable of cleaning up, and everyone had their share of tackles, but it just worked really well together.  So not excusing Walden, i'd like to see him blow it up too,  but I do agree with a poster above that it's not all about him even being around the ball or making the tackles and racking up his stats, and aggressiveness is something that can be a killer when youre trying to dictate where you want to or don't want to allow offense guys running around at... Cuz I just feel like if Sheppard makes that tackle for a few yard gain then its like, even with Walden being lost off the snap, he diagnoses whats going on and does what he needs to do.

 

I don't know, I'm rambling, because I'm curious too but I just don't think he is that bad, and when I hear about him being an edge setter I always think back to the responsibilty I had and like I said it happens so fast, but watching him basically slow play whats going on then react, I don't think he is as terrible as people are making him out to seem..

[lollygagger8]

He has played decent IMO. You surely are very down on Mathis`s edge play right?

 

They have a good power game. Lots of blockers came his way.

 He did a perfect job on run one, engaging his blocker, turning the run in.

 On #2 he definitely got fooled. But so did Sheppard who could have gotten outside to attempt to turn it in. Safety Bethea was no where to be found.

 

On #3 that was a very nicely executed draw. The blocking was excellent in space. Freeman nor Sheppard was even near the middle to have effect, catching Wald in space.  Walden might have turned or tackled him on about the seven if he had gotten off his blocker, but he didn`t. Gore made a VN cut to the outside.  Gore would have been hitting into Toler near the six if he had gone up the middle.

 

 What is the average salary for Waldens position please? We had to bid for him in an open market, he got next to no bonus, and has set his edge better than Mathis. He has played OK 3 games into our system.

 Keep worrying I guess. Kinda wonder if you appreciate what he is supposed to do on the edge!

 

 Hopefully all our guys will improve by getiing coached up & playing together. :thmsup:

 

 Homers were excited about our top 7 whatever D and our New great O-Line based on stats.

 

I realize some people just want to use this forum to argue, but I didn't post this to argue. I'm trying to get educated. 

 

I would say most people can agree Walden got paid a lot more than he's worth. <- Me being one of them. If you don't believe that, look back quite a few pages during the off season on the forum. 

 

I watch the games in real time, and don't care to make sweet gifs and photoshop plays. I just go by what I see when I'm watching. I saw Walden get pushed around a lot. He had ONE tackle. I want to like the guy since he's on the Colts and that's who I bleed blue for. I'm just having a real hard time seeing him prove his worth so far. 

[throwing BBZ]

I'm also old school and we don't know the assignment.  Seems like he did his containment as he must have outside responsibility and forced it inside but as you said did he continue with the play.  The play isn't over till the whistle blows!

 

 Look at the 1st long run by Gore.

 Walden hammers the edge blocker turning the play, Gore passes with Mathis chasing him 4 yards behind. Gore gets tackled by Bethea about 10 yards further down. The Great Mathis appears right by the tackle and who is about a yard behind off to his side?

 That LAZY Walden.

[Coffeedrinker]

If he goes after the guy with the ball on a read option, he hesitates, is out of position and its adios muchacho. That's why he is here. Its more complicated than "get the guy with the ball." You do that in pee wee.

 

My word, you really don't think a defensive player should tackle the guy with the ball?  Based on this and the fact you think the 49ers best chance at a win was to keep throwing the ball, I would love to coach against one of your teams.  It would be a cakewalk for my team.

[chad72]

I think Toler crashing the inside gap on that TD run is predicated on Walden disengaging, setting the edge and not letting the RB get around forcing him inside. The expectation is that Walden forces the play inside and Toler is waiting for him there to make the tackle.

 

One happened i.e. Toler crashing the inside, the other did not (Walden forcing the RB inside) and that is why the TD happened. However, laterally, Walden has his athletic limitations, so scat backs or QBs that get to the edge real fast (Kaep, Pryor, RG3) will expose those weaknesses if Walden does not have DB help around the edge, IMO. Bigger backs or moderately athletic QBs, Walden will be able to catch up and force it inside better.

 

Expecting Walden to defend side to side far outside the tackles is not going to happen on a consistent basis.

 

I think that is how I see it in layman terms.

[OffensivelyPC]

My word, you really don't think a defensive player should tackle the guy with the ball?  Based on this and the fact you think the 49ers best chance at a win was to keep throwing the ball, I would love to coach against one of your teams.  It would be a cakewalk for my team.

???  Did you not see what the read option did to defenses last year?  I don't understand why you insist on the point that coaches attempted to correct all offseason.  If my team plays yours, all I need are two fast kids and a mediocre line and I'm hanging 45 on you.  I don't really need to worry about defense because I am playing against a coach that, outside of one drive, thinks his running game is working when its putting up pedestrian numbers.

[Coffeedrinker]

Good post by Nostrils

 

 

I didn't want to copy your whole post because the things would get kind of long but it was an enjoyable read. 

 

To me, on many of the running plays on Walden's side that I have seen what he is doing is no different than what used to happen with Freeney.  On his way to the QB, Freeney would push upfiled and the running back would run right behind him.  Walden is just running forward into a blocker, he's not setting anything, he is just being blocked by the guy who is supposed to block him and letting the running back run where he was going to run anyways.  He needs to establish his position and force the RB to make a decision... either cut it inside where there are more tacklers or string it out wide by running parallel to the LOS.  Both are wins for the defense.  Just like your assignment, if the RB decides to take a straight line to the sideline and the CB comes up and makes the stop for a 3 yard loss, I doubt if your coach would have yelled at you for letting him outside.

 

I don't think Walden is all bad either, as someone else mentioned his field awareness seems to be lacking and he is prone to over-commit himself.  But he is fast and strong and if he's is the proper position he does a good job, his issues are just he is not always in the proper position.

[Coffeedrinker]

???  Did you not see what the read option did to defenses last year?  I don't understand why you insist on the point that coaches attempted to correct all offseason.  If my team plays yours, all I need are two fast kids and a mediocre line and I'm hanging 45 on you.  I don't really need to worry about defense because I am playing against a coach that, outside of one drive, thinks his running game is working when its putting up pedestrian numbers.

Because a lot of teams have corrected it, yet I see Walden still making some of the same mistakes.

 

As far your team putting up 45, since there is no way to prove it one way or another I won't go any further than to say, you have proven to have a very elementary understanding of football, your team would not scare me even if only 8 of my players showed up.

[HungarianColtsFan]

i think at this point we should start Cam Johnson and see what he can do....cuz DHB...Toler has been better then him

 

Whoa...I'm confused...my English left me...

 

Is this a sarcasm?

[HtownColt]

The runs on that drive was not all on walden.

The first run that drive was Kaepernick scramble up the right side with Mathis on that side, he used a speed rush and got pushed past Kaepernick opened up the run lane and off he went.

The first Gore run had the tackle and guard(or TE) pull outside, Walden took on the tackle Anthony Davis on the pull, Sheppard and company was too slow reading their keys and got beat to the outside and sealed off, that was a good run call if you ask me.

The second Gore run went right up the middle for like 12yards, no way that's Walden fault.

The next Gore big run was at Walden, i don't know what he was doing there but he just crashed down for some reason, it looked pre determined but anyways that just left a huge void up that side and Gore took it.

And then you have the TD on the draw, nice play call there too, got everybody up the field, it was a draw which meant Walden first responsibility was to cover the TE/FB whoever that was that play which started to do, then it left just Hunter and Walden at a race to the pylon, Hunter wins that race 10-10 times, Toler got caught up too

That's just how I saw things that drive

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

???  Did you not see what the read option did to defenses last year?  I don't understand why you insist on the point that coaches attempted to correct all offseason.  If my team plays yours, all I need are two fast kids and a mediocre line and I'm hanging 45 on you.  I don't really need to worry about defense because I am playing against a coach that, outside of one drive, thinks his running game is working when its putting up pedestrian numbers.

Tell that to Chip Kelly.

[BigQandTheManiac]

Whoa...I'm confused...my English left me...

 

Is this a sarcasm?

read my other post then maybe you'll see what i mean...ik what i'm talking about

[HtownColt]

i think at this point we should start Cam Johnson and see what he can do....cuz DHB...Toler has been better then him

Cam Johnson was out there after Bradshaw scored

[OffensivelyPC]

Because a lot of teams have corrected it, yet I see Walden still making some of the same mistakes.

You want to know how they correct it?  By having the guy playing Walden's position sit back and wait.  You call my understanding of football very elementary, but I'm not sure you're the one who understands what you are seeing.  Here's a good read that will tell you why the Sam backer is waiting to commit.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1779940-how-are-defenses-countering-the-read-option-and-how-are-offenses-responding

 

You don't just go running and chasing everything when teams like the 49ers run the read option.  That's what defenses did last year, and they got tore up.  Now if he misses his read, that's on him.  But criticizing Walden for not chasing whoever he thinks has the ball before he makes the right read is stupid and opens up your defense to gaping holes.  And many of times, when players like Gore get the ball on the read option, he's already at the line of scrimmage before Walden can react.  So yeah he's going to look like he's just standing still when the play has appeared to have already developed.  It doesn't take a football coach to see how teams are defending the read option. 

 

On other plays, yeah, Walden makes some mistakes.  He's not that great.  But I think he's better than you're giving him credit for, primarily because some of your judgments are completely unfair.  You basically expect him to be guarding Kaepernick and tackling Gore at the same time.

[HungarianColtsFan]

read my other post then maybe you'll see what i mean...ik what i'm talking about

 

Sorry, somehow I've skipped Your other post. That made Your point clear.

[alawai]

 Look at the 1st long run by Gore.

 Walden hammers the edge blocker turning the play, Gore passes with Mathis chasing him 4 yards behind. Gore gets tackled by Bethea about 10 yards further down. The Great Mathis appears right by the tackle and who is about a yard behind off to his side?

 That LAZY Walden.

Thank you BBS but my days are over!  I no longer sit and break down plays and player assignments but rather to sit back and enjoy the game with my Coors Light and pizza.  I no longer second guess the coaches (even if I think it was a jack a** move).  This is not criticizing you because I applaud you for dissecting plays, player assignments and such.  I have moved on from the field to the bench to the living room/lazy boy recliner so carry-on!  Like I said I'm not dissing you because I'll continue to read and I enjoy the comments and opinions.  Have a great day guys!

[HungarianColtsFan]

Let me be clear on the post i made....I used DHB and Toler as examples of players we signed this off season where people were questioning the signings along with Walden and so far i think both Toler and DHB has stepped up and been pretty decent....heck i even been hearing RJF name get called in games more the walden for making a play....And as far as Cam...he's faster then Walden two main things walden lacks is speed and awareness....Maybe Cam can get to the QB faster then walden can to put more pressure on the Qbs...basically im saying SO FAR everybody has stepped up except for walden...i seen more highlights this year of him getting burned then making a play.....it's still early thou..if he turns it around i'll take back everything.... but SO FAR...ehhhhh

 

At this point, I don't know how to treat his (Walden) situation. Shall we give him more chance, or 'next man up' and Cam Johnson in, and perhaps Walden shapes up to regain his spot.

 

Perhaps he is one of those few singings those don't work.

[BrentMc11]

At this point, I don't know how to treat his (Walden) situation. Shall we give him more chance, or 'next man up' and Cam Johnson in, and perhaps Walden shapes up to regain his spot.

 

Perhaps he is one of those few singings those don't work.

I say we won 27-7.....we go back and watch film....practice hard this week and do not overlook the lowly Jags.  Practice to improve in all facets that we can pick apart on film.

 

Walden to this point is the ONLY OLB that remotely sets the edge.

 

Mathis and Werner do not get the concept....rusher and rookie!!  

 

Play good TEAM defense like last week and beat the Jags soundly....60 minutes buddy!!!!

 

:pass:  :pass:             !!!!

[Coffeedrinker]

You want to know how they correct it?  By having the guy playing Walden's position sit back and wait.  You call my understanding of football very elementary, but I'm not sure you're the one who understands what you are seeing.  Here's a good read that will tell you why the Sam backer is waiting to commit.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1779940-how-are-defenses-countering-the-read-option-and-how-are-offenses-responding

 

You don't just go running and chasing everything when teams like the 49ers run the read option.  That's what defenses did last year, and they got tore up.  Now if he misses his read, that's on him.  But criticizing Walden for not chasing whoever he thinks has the ball before he makes the right read is stupid and opens up your defense to gaping holes.  And many of times, when players like Gore get the ball on the read option, he's already at the line of scrimmage before Walden can react.  So yeah he's going to look like he's just standing still when the play has appeared to have already developed.  It doesn't take a football coach to see how teams are defending the read option. 

 

On other plays, yeah, Walden makes some mistakes.  He's not that great.  But I think he's better than you're giving him credit for, primarily because some of your judgments are completely unfair.  You basically expect him to be guarding Kaepernick and tackling Gore at the same time.

I have never once said anything about running and chasing everything, I have not ever stated that Walden should do that nor have I critized Walden for not chasing whoever he thinks has the ball.  I really don't mind if someone has a different opinion than mine, that is what makes this board fun and interesting.  What I do mind, and it's something that you have done twice now, is to try and claim that I am saying something I am not and then arguing against that point that you made up.  If you can't disagree with me on what I actually say (type) then stay out of the conversation.

 

On your link, the problem with Walden is not waiting to commit, his problem is not waiting and over-committing.  Here's a link that breaks down the play in the GB/SF game and it explains perfectly what Walden is still doing with the Colts.  And it shows the difference between setting the edge and taking on a blocker.  If Walden had set the edge he would have been in a position to stop CK, since he took on a blocker he turned his back and opened a huge running lane for CK.  He wasn't the only that played it poorly but he was a key person on that play.

[Smonroe]

How about the coaches decide who plays instead of a group of arm chair quarterbacks on the internet.  

 

Wait, you mean arm chair QBs on the internet have been making that decision?  Dang, if I knew that I would have lobbied hard to get in the game.

 

But I guess your idea might work better, so I'm willing to try it. 

[Coffeedrinker]

Wait, you mean arm chair QBs on the internet have been making that decision?  Dang, if I knew that I would have lobbied hard to get in the game.

 

But I guess your idea might work better, so I'm willing to try it. 

Well my arm chair looks like this

 

So I'm qualified to make those decisions.

 

And I will put you in the next game.  All you have to do is set the edge.  You don't even have to be very good at it and the forum will think you are the best thing since Peyton Manning (before he got injured and went to the Broncos where he immediately became overrated)

[BrentMc11]

Well my arm chair looks like this

 

So I'm qualified to make those decisions.

 

And I will put you in the next game.  All you have to do is set the edge.  You don't even have to be very good at it and the forum will think you are the best thing since Peyton Manning (before he got injured and went to the Broncos where he immediately became overrated)

There really is a fine line between sarcasm and insanity......and I should know.  

 

So where are the coffee stains? 

[In Luck We Trust]

The guy has gotten owned almost every time he's been engaged. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt from all the naysayers when we picked him up, but I still have yet to see him set the edge like he is supposed to be good at. 

 

Against Dan Fran, the drive where Gore was running all over us was to the right side.....directly at Walden. Toler was getting pushed around like a rag doll as well, but Walden got owned a lot. 

 

Help me understand what I'm missing here. I want to like this guy, especially since we threw buckets of money at him. 

although Toler has been better then Walden I said from the beginning when we signed these two guys that they are not worth the money we gave them. they are both back up players at best.unfortunately we do not have anyone better to replace Toler at CB. Walden can still be replaced by Werner. 

[HtownColt]

I have never once said anything about running and chasing everything, I have not ever stated that Walden should do that nor have I critized Walden for not chasing whoever he thinks has the ball. I really don't mind if someone has a different opinion than mine, that is what makes this board fun and interesting. What I do mind, and it's something that you have done twice now, is to try and claim that I am saying something I am not and then arguing against that point that you made up. If you can't disagree with me on what I actually say (type) then stay out of the conversation.

On your link, the problem with Walden is not waiting to commit, his problem is not waiting and over-committing. Here's a link that breaks down the play in the GB/SF game and it explains perfectly what Walden is still doing with the Colts. And it shows the difference between setting the edge and taking on a blocker. If Walden had set the edge he would have been in a position to stop CK, since he took on a blocker he turned his back and opened a huge running lane for CK. He wasn't the only that played it poorly but he was a key person on that play.

As a defender you never let a blocker cross your face, because that's essentially what the blocker is trying to accomplish, that is like rule #1 on pulling and misdirection, and normal zone/stretch runs plays, he was supposed to take on that fullback and have his inside backers scrape over the top and be in position to make the play, but his inside backer never scraped over the top to stop Kaepernick.

Hence a why he took on Anthony Davis on the Gore run play this past game but the inside backer(Sheppard) was too slow to get outside and got sealed off and Gore breaks it

[Coffeedrinker]

There really is a fine line between sarcasm and insanity......and I should know.  

 

So where are the coffee stains? 

Please, I crossed that line years ago.

 

Coffee stains?  I would never waste the precious elixir of life by spilling or dribbling any.

[BrentMc11]

Please, I crossed that line years ago.

 

Coffee stains?  I would never waste the precious elixir of life by spilling or dribbling any.

Me too

[OffensivelyPC]

I have never once said anything about running and chasing everything, I have not ever stated that Walden should do that nor have I critized Walden for not chasing whoever he thinks has the ball. I really don't mind if someone has a different opinion than mine, that is what makes this board fun and interesting. What I do mind, and it's something that you have done twice now, is to try and claim that I am saying something I am not and then arguing against that point that you made up. If you can't disagree with me on what I actually say (type) then stay out of the conversation.

On your link, the problem with Walden is not waiting to commit, his problem is not waiting and over-committing. Here's a link that breaks down the play in the GB/SF game and it explains perfectly what Walden is still doing with the Colts. And it shows the difference between setting the edge and taking on a blocker. If Walden had set the edge he would have been in a position to stop CK, since he took on a blocker he turned his back and opened a huge running lane for CK. He wasn't the only that played it poorly but he was a key person on that play.

If you dont like it so much, you should be more mindful of when you do the same thing to others. I never once said he shouldnt go after the guy with the ball. I said he should wait to see how the read option develops before he goes after the guy with the ball, because he commits too early, he takes himself out of the play. And for whatever reason, you seemed to think i was saying he should ignore the guy with the ball.

But at the same token, i apologize for misquoting you.

[Coffeedrinker]

As a defender you never let a blocker cross your face, that is like rule #1 on pulling and misdirection plays, he was supposed to take on that fullback and have his inside backers scrape over the top and be in position to make the play, but his inside backer never scraped over the top to stop Kaepernick.

Hence a why he took on Anthony Davis on the Gore run play this past game but the inside backer(Sheppard) was too slow to get outside and got sealed off and Gore breaks it

Never let a blocker cross your face?  That is not one I have heard before can you explain what you mean?

 

To the next, was he supposed to take on that back?  Yes.  Was he supposed to over-commit and turn his shoulders perpendicular to the LOS... absolutely not. 

 

But here just to show I'm not a Walden hater, can the person that posted the clip of the Gore run, post the clip of an example of when it was played properly?  At the 12:45 mark of the 2nd quarter, Ck wanted to run but everyone maintained their lanes and responsibilities and Kap ended up dancing around and then found a small hole and gained 5 yards.  I assume Walden was in on that play but I have no idea, I just know that the defense played it perfectly that time.

[Coffeedrinker]

If you dont like it so much, you should be more mindful of when you do the same thing to others. I never once said he shouldnt go after the guy with the ball. I said he should wait to see how the read option develops before he goes after the guy with the ball, because he commits too early, he takes himself out of the play. And for whatever reason, you seemed to think i was saying he should ignore the guy with the ball.

But at the same token, i apologize for misquoting you.

Without looking through all my posts, I didn't think I claimed you said that.  But if I did, then I was WRONG for doing that.

 

And I agree with your point he should wait on the read option... by waiting means he's square to the LOS, he engages the blocker and stays ready to move laterally depending on how the play unfolds.  He does not do that consistently, like I said, at times, he over-commits, turns his shoulders and which opens up a huge running lane.  When setting the edge he gets too far upfield and the RB runs behind him and still gets to the outside.

 

Lastly, I am not trying to claim he does this everytime and that he is always wrong but he seems to be out of position more than I would think would be acceptable at the NFL level.

[OffensivelyPC]

Without looking through all my posts, I didn't think I claimed you said that. But if I did, then I was WRONG for doing that.

And I agree with your point he should wait on the read option... by waiting means he's square to the LOS, he engages the blocker and stays ready to move laterally depending on how the play unfolds. He does not do that consistently, like I said, at times, he over-commits, turns his shoulders and which opens up a huge running lane. When setting the edge he gets too far upfield and the RB runs behind him and still gets to the outside.

Lastly, I am not trying to claim he does this everytime and that he is always wrong but he seems to be out of position more than I would think would be acceptable at the NFL level.

Miscommunication. It happens. And im not saying walden is perfect. He does take himself out of the play sometimes. Can be very inconsistent at times. My biggest complaint with him is his pass rush. Similar to your complaint, he rushes up the field to much at times. If i recall, he was better abiut it this past week. I know thats not why we brought him him here, but suffice it to say, hes underachieved in that area.

[HtownColt]

Never let a blocker cross your face? That is not one I have heard before can you explain what you mean?

To the next, was he supposed to take on that back? Yes. Was he supposed to over-commit and turn his shoulders perpendicular to the LOS... absolutely not.

But here just to show I'm not a Walden hater, can the person that posted the clip of the Gore run, post the clip of an example of when it was played properly? At the 12:45 mark of the 2nd quarter, Ck wanted to run but everyone maintained their lanes and responsibilities and Kap ended up dancing around and then found a small hole and gained 5 yards. I assume Walden was in on that play but I have no idea, I just know that the defense played it perfectly that time.

What I mean by never cross your face is getting reached blocked( we just called it not letting the blocker cross your face when I played at Texas State) you hear all the zone running teams talk about cutting of the back side( and to cut off the backside they have to cross your face),and they try and reach block on the play side if the defender is playing an outside technique on them. So they are trying to get on that outside shoulder and as a defender playing outside technique you never want that to happen that's why you always here them say keep your outside shoulder free when taking on blockers.

As far as pulling lineman/TE/FB, as a DE or OLB you always take on the pulling player to make the edge as short as possible, and to keep your ILB clean so they can flow to the ball cleanly to give your ILB a shorter distance to cover to scrape over the top and make the play. You want to keep that outside shoulder free when taking on that blocker also so you can come off of it, if you don't keep it free and take it head on or get reach blocked(crossed your face) you are done as a defender the blocker has you right where he wants you. That's what happened to Walden in the playoff game and his ILB did him no favors either he was all out of position, that's why after the play they have a shot on the sideline of Walden doing the wrap around motion with his hand talking to his coach like his ILB was supposed to scrape over the top and be there to make the play but the ILB never showed up.

If he was to go straight at Kaepernick in tha game and not get him then Kaep is running free with that FB as a lead blocker with nobody to block

Samething happened this week, Walden took on Anthony Davis on the pull he shortened the edge, Gore cut it up inside of Walden and Sheppard never showed up, he was too slow and got sealed off by Alex Boone I think it was

[Coffeedrinker]

What I mean by never cross your face is getting reached blocked( we just called it not letting the blocker cross your face when I played at Texas State) you hear all the zone running teams talk about cutting of the back side( and to cut off the backside they have to cross your face),and they try and reach block on the play side if the defender is playing an outside technique on them. So they are trying to get on that outside shoulder and as a defender playing outside technique you never want that to happen that's why you always here them say keep your outside shoulder free when taking on blockers.

As far as pulling lineman/TE/FB, as a DE or OLB you always take on the pulling player to make the edge as short as possible, and to keep your ILB clean so they can flow to the ball cleanly to give your ILB a shorter distance to cover to scrape over the top and make the play. You want to keep that outside shoulder free when taking on that blocker also so you can come off of it, if you don't keep it free and take it head on or get reach blocked(crossed your face) you are done as a defender the blocker has you right where he wants you. That's what happened to Walden in the playoff game and his ILB did him no favors either he was all out of position, that's why after the play they have a shot on the sideline of Walden doing the wrap around motion with his hand talking to his coach like his ILB was supposed to scrape over the top and be there to make the play but the ILB never showed up.

Samething happened this week, Walden took on Anthony Davis on the pull he shortened the edge, Gore cut it up inside of Walden and Sheppard never showed up, he was too slow and got sealed off by Alex Boone I think it was

Gotcha, thanks.  And I agree keep that outside shoulder free, not turning sideways.

 

And I would agree there were probably several plays where Walden played it correctly but Shepp did not.  But that clip posted in this thread is not one them (IMO you can run to within 5 yards of the boundary and then claim you turned it inside). I won't repeat things I've said in other posts but other than a sumamry.  Walden is out of position a lot more than I think would be considered acceptable for an NFL veteran starter.

[coltsfanatic24]

Walden hasn't played well in any of the first three games, he's been getting pushed back at the line of scrimmage. I would rather have Werner and Cam Johnson out there because both are bigger and more athletic then Walden.

[Gavin]

Cant really say I have paid any attention to Walden, I dont have any expectations of him being a stat sheet stuffer. Ill have to go back and watch to see if he sets the edge well consistently

[Gavin]

On that 22 yard run by Gore in the first quarter.......I thought from watching the All 22 that Walden did a good job of setting the edge, Matthews got blown off the ball which I think is the main reason the play broke down.......Also I thought Sheppard had containment up the middle on that play pretty well but Toler should have came down instead of allowing Miller to attack him which would have forced Gore back inside (like it did but by that time Gore was already around 5 yards up field)....There was 2 missed tackles on that play...Freeman and then Howell

[Superman]

Agreed 

 

Took a while, was a busy day today. But here goes nothing. Click the images to view large size. And please, ignore my very crude Paint skills.

 

This is the Gore run for 22 yards. Kyle Rodriguez did a breakdown on this.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1959-3ulgw/

 

In the image below, notice that the Niners are in I Right, with two receivers on the left side of the formation. Our defense has already lost, because we're inviting them to run to the strongside. The inside backers (Sheppard and Freeman) are lined up off the line, but over the guards, both safeties are back (Rodriguez called this an 8 man box, which it isn't), and the corner on the playside is too far inside and 8 yards off the line of scrimmage. It gets worse. This is really a great play design, and it's a perfect storm given our weird defensive alignment. They are going to cross block the defensive end (RJF) with the tight end, and pull the right guard and tackle to lead along with the fullback. So they're basically blocking two playside defenders (Walden and RJF) with four blockers (the guard, tackle, tight end and fullback). 

 

So before we blame any one defender for the results of this play, we need to acknowledge that our scheme / playcall / alignment were doomed from the start here. Perfect techique doesn't stop this play.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1956-1/

 

As the play starts, the two inside backers are well out of position to help playside, and RJF loses to the tight end. So now, it's Walden against three blockers. He takes on the first blocker.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1957-2/

 

Because Walden takes on the first blocker, and there are literally no other defenders within five yards of the point of attack, a huge alley is opened up to the inside. You'll see from this and the poor quality gif above that Walden dominates the right tackle, pushing him back a good two yards at impact. This isn't because the tackle is trying to get Walden to rush up the field; it's not a draw. The tackle loses. But not only is there no help, but he pushes him back too far, which allows the back to scoot through this huge alley and get to the second level untouched. 

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1958-3/

 

Now Walden is out of the play. Sheppard is up next, and he gets stoned by the pulling right guard. There's no help from the cornerback, and Freeman is still trying to get over from his weak inside backer spot. He has to try to get through the traffic created by RJF and Sheppard, and doesn't stand a chance. As Rodriguez said in his breakdown, the fullback (still with no one to block, remarkably) ignores Freeman, as he's not a factor, and gets up to block the cornerback, Toler, which allows Gore to churn out a few more yards.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1960-4/

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1955-5/

 

On it's surface, this is a run to Walden's side that resulted in 22 yards. Why did we pay Walden all that money to set the edge if he's just going to blow his assignment and let us get run all over??? Get him off the field right now!!!

 

Look closely, and it's a good playcall by the Niners and a poor job by our defense, before and after the snap. It's NOT the fault of Walden or any other one player. As a matter of fact, Walden is the only one who actually wins a matchup, and ironically, him dominating his man wound up working in favor of the offense (not by design, just by coincidence). If Walden had pushed more horizontally, it would have given the rest of the defense a little more time to get over, and it would have used the sideline as an extra defender. But we were still dominated from before the play even started.

 

I have another play in mind that shows why I think Walden is doing a pretty good job. Again, not a good game against the Niners, but he had a couple of good outside contains. Give me a bit.

[GoColts8818]

All I know is that people a lot smarter than me have said Walden did a good job on Sunday outside of the first quarter.  He did have the run that he could have stopped for a four yard gain that turned into a seven yard gain but other than that the local Colts experts and coaches seem to think he did better on Sunday than he had in the first two games. 

[SteelCityColt]

 

He look's pretty good setting the edge here. 

[Superman]

Here's an example of a solid run contain by Walden. Gore for 3 yards in the second quarter.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1965-3umuu/

 

This is a similar formation, Niners in Strong I Right this time. They motion the receiver over to the left, so they again have two receivers on the left side. They are going to run off tackle to the right, but they block straight ahead, only pulling the backside guard. The right tackle and tight end double up on the defensive end, Cory Redding this time. Walden is on the right side.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1961-1/

 

As the play starts, you can see the left guard pulling to the right, and the fullback squaring Walden up. The right tackle hit Redding, and is now sliding off to get to the linebacker, Freeman. The pulling guard is responsible for coming over to clean up on Redding. But the nose tackle and other end (Chapman and RJF) have basically created a two-man wall, and Walden stones the fullback and cuts off the outside.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1962-2/

 

The next image basically shows a concave that Gore is going to follow his fullback into. He winds up getting low and gaining 3 yards, but the run is shut down. Gore could have tried to bounce it to the outside, and given Walden's average athleticism, he might have gotten out there, but then he'd have to make the corner miss in the open field. Again, not impossible, but Gore does what he's coached to do and follows his lead blockers. Freeman is circled here because the right tackle who started off blocking Redding has now engaged Freeman beyond the line of scrimmage.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1963-3/

 

As the play ends, you see again that Walden gave up no ground to the outside and helped force Gore up the middle, right into Chapman and Freeman, who team up to make the tackle. At this point, you can also see that Toler has joined the picture, and it helps explain why Gore didn't try to get around to the outside.

 

http://forums.colts.com/gallery/image/1964-4/

 

To me, this is setting the edge. Some might want Walden to explode through the fullback and take down the ball carrier for a loss. But that's not realistic. He's not the Kool-Aid man busting through a brick wall. He's taking on tight ends, fullbacks, and tackles, and his job is to make it difficult for the ball carrier to get to the outside. And for the most part, he does a pretty good job of that. He's not going to have a bunch of tackles, and he isn't a good pass rusher, so forget about him setting the world on fire with sacks or pressures. If you're not specifically watching for him, you might not even notice him, which leads to thread titles like this one. But this right here is pretty much what he's good for.

 

I compare him to Jarrett Johnson. Not an outstanding player in any way, but he's technically solid when it comes to containing outside runs. Johnson is a little bitter of a pass rusher, but not by much. After several years in Baltimore, including playing 2011 under Chuck Pagano as coordinator, Johnson went to play for John Pagano in San Diego. The Chargers gave him four years, $19m, with $10m guaranteed. We gave Walden four years, $16m, with $4m guaranteed. A similar contract for a player with similar attributes, playing in a similar system. That's why I scoff at the notion that Walden is grossly overpaid. Maybe we could have signed someone to play his role for less, but he's a decent edge guy who can drop into coverage against tight ends and backs, and we can stick him at the Sam spot, rather than Mathis. 

 

Werner can do all of this. He doesn't play with enough discipline on run plays, but that will come with time. He's bigger and stronger than Walden, so he might wind up being much better at setting the edge than Walden is. I hope so, because coupled with his ability as a pass rusher, this would make Werner a very good edge defender. But right now, Walden does this part of the job better.