Okay, Let's Say We Stop the Run...

[mvbighead]

I understand what you're saying....   but I'd add this....   Ngata (I always screw up the spelling!)  doesn't only play NT....   I think he plays DE a fair amount of the time....   I'd say at least 50 percent of the time....

 

Personally,  I see Hughes eventually being the guy who replaces Redding....  

 

Although a rotation of Chapman and Hughes might be scary good as well.....     

 

I'd just like to give Hughes a bit more room to seek and destroy on the outside....   Grigson made it a point to talk about Hughes' ability to start and stop, to move laterally,  his great athletic skills...    I just think his superior athletic skills would be wasted playing on the Nose....   to many bodies in the way....  too much trash to step over.

 

But my view maybe the minority view on this....

 

I'd agree with this.  To me, the beauty of a 3 man front is that you can then get more athletic on the back end with your OLBs.  The Colts of the past had athletic DEs and woefully undersized interior linemen.  Now, if we pair Chapman with Hughes in the long term, we could possibly plug the interior with two guys, leaving another DL and a LB or two free to make plays in the openings.  I like it, and I'd figure if they have hopes for this kid, and still believe in Chapman, they likely want to get them both on the field at the same time, at least in the future.  What better way than to use Hughes in the Ngata role.

[mvbighead]

Nope, that is not what I based it on.

 

RJF - primary role will be 3-4 DE with 2 gap principles, in other words containment primarily, and 3-4 NT on passing downs, at least that might be the expectation if we don't substitute. We have Nevis for 4-3 UT purposes, so I don't think RJF is the primary UT penetrator by any means. So, expectation there is more run D than pass D.

 

Walden - first thing talked about him was setting the edge, so there is stopping the run for you.

 

Werner - will be playing passing downs behind Walden, so yeah, that is a pass rush component other than Mathis, no doubt about it.

 

Montori Hughes is a big unknown, which is what I inferred to. Sidbury, you definitely have higher hopes from him than I do. Then, you trade Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard, who is more stellar on the run D front and had issues with coverage (from everything I have read and opinions shared by Bills fans too on BuffaloRumblings)

 

So, I gave you the unknowns, IMO, and whether you agree or not, this is what I based my run D oriented front 7 moves assessment on. Outside Werner, all our front 7 moves in the draft and FA focused more on run D than pass D with a few unknowns that we don't know how they will pan out.

 

Well, as far as I'm concerned, we beefed up on the line which should keep our guys from getting pushed around.  Ray Lewis pleaded for the drafting of Ngata so that he'd be free to make plays.  If Hughes can do anything of the sort, it should help the rest of our team on both the rushing and passing fronts.

 

Long story short, anything you do to help one aspect is likely to help the other.  And aside from that, how can you forget about the additions of Landry, Toler, and the re-signing of Butler, as well as the 2nd round pick that was used to bring in Davis.  Our secondary should be fine.  Our pass rush should improve with more talent on the line, and better quality LBs.

 

As for Sidburry, my hopes aren't that high.  I just figure Grigson has mentioned that he has the measurables and could be a great fit at OLB in the pass rushing role.  This whole concept of us strictly improving our run defense is pretty much a rendition of chicken little/sky is falling that we don't need to re-hash.  Pagano and Grigson clearly have a plan, and that's to stop letting our defense get pushed around and punched in the mouth.  Thus far, most all of their moves have been good ones.

[Carlos Danger]

Stopping the run will help our pass D by putting the other team in 3rd and long situations... We might have issues getting off of the field in 3rd down situations if we can't put pressure on the QB, but I think we will be able to improve in that area as well with a more talented D-Line to open holes for the LB core....

[DarkHorseColts]

Nope, that is not what I based it on.

 

RJF - primary role will be 3-4 DE with 2 gap principles, in other words containment primarily, and 3-4 NT on passing downs, at least that might be the expectation if we don't substitute. We have Nevis for 4-3 UT purposes, so I don't think RJF is the primary UT penetrator by any means. So, expectation there is more run D than pass D.

 

Walden - first thing talked about him was setting the edge, so there is stopping the run for you.

 

Werner - will be playing passing downs behind Walden, so yeah, that is a pass rush component other than Mathis, no doubt about it.

 

Montori Hughes is a big unknown, which is what I inferred to. Sidbury, you definitely have higher hopes from him than I do. Then, you trade Jerry Hughes for Kelvin Sheppard, who is more stellar on the run D front and had issues with coverage (from everything I have read and opinions shared by Bills fans too on BuffaloRumblings)

 

So, I gave you the unknowns, IMO, and whether you agree or not, this is what I based my run D oriented front 7 moves assessment on. Outside Werner, all our front 7 moves in the draft and FA focused more on run D than pass D with a few unknowns that we don't know how they will pan out.

 

The Colts are putting their money where their mouth is:

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/4/19/4242858/takeways-from-colts-g-m-ryan-grigsons-2013-pre-draft-press-conference

Grigson reiterating several times that the focus for the franchise's defense is to stop the run. Period. "Our focus is, I don't feel like as an organization, Chuck I know doesn't feel like - from his defensive standpoint - that he wants people to run the ball down our throat anymore."

 

"We have implemented players that have the mentality of stopping the run."

 

With the 3-4 body types, the mantra of "stop the run" is critical to Grigson. "It's a pride thing," he said.

[Smonroe]

The Colts are putting their money where their mouth is:

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2013/4/19/4242858/takeways-from-colts-g-m-ryan-grigsons-2013-pre-draft-press-conference

Grigson reiterating several times that the focus for the franchise's defense is to stop the run. Period. "Our focus is, I don't feel like as an organization, Chuck I know doesn't feel like - from his defensive standpoint - that he wants people to run the ball down our throat anymore."

 

"We have implemented players that have the mentality of stopping the run."

 

With the 3-4 body types, the mantra of "stop the run" is critical to Grigson. "It's a pride thing," he said.

Hence, the topic of this thread. Okay, let's pretend we're the OC of a team facing the Colts. We know they're going to put emphasis on stopping our run game. What do we do? Well, teams like SF and Seattle may say we're going to run it anyway.

But if we're an average team we're going to run bubble screens and cut backs, everything we can to make those big uglies run sideline to sideline, right? Wear them down.

I'm not saying stopping the run isn't a good thing. I'm saying, okay -then what? Are we fast enough to roll with TEs, or deep enough to cover the slot? We should be seeing a lot of quick passes, will our DBs play tight enough to stop the 8 yard slant?

I really don't know, but I can't wait to find out!

[HtownColt]

I understand what you're saying.... but I'd add this.... Ngata (I always screw up the spelling!) doesn't only play NT.... I think he plays DE a fair amount of the time.... I'd say at least 50 percent of the time....

Personally, I see Hughes eventually being the guy who replaces Redding....

Although a rotation of Chapman and Hughes might be scary good as well.....

I'd just like to give Hughes a bit more room to seek and destroy on the outside.... Grigson made it a point to talk about Hughes' ability to start and stop, to move laterally, his great athletic skills... I just think his superior athletic skills would be wasted playing on the Nose.... to many bodies in the way.... too much trash to step over.

But my view maybe the minority view on this....

Yea Grigson said that Hughes will play all 3 DL positions, forgot where I read the quote at but ill find it and post it here

[Stephen]

Last year we could not stop the run or defend against the pass. So at the very least, if we can stop the run, we're miles ahead of where we were last year. There's no need to worry about this.

 

Secondly, if we look at our division, we face MJD, CJ2K, and Foster. If we stop them then we're asking Schaub, Locker, and Gabbert to beat us. I like those odds.

we also will see green the former jets rb that embarrassed us last year

[TKnight24]

I'm sorry, but I have Werner starting opposite of Mathis and Walden being a back-up

Imo, ANYONE (No matter the position) you take in the FIRST round should automatically start. That's always been something I've felt should happen. Cause you're basically saying this is who we want the most. So they should start day one unless they just underperformed in TC or Pre-season

[NewColtsFan]

I'm sorry, but I have Werner starting opposite of Mathis and Walden being a back-up

Imo, ANYONE (No matter the position) you take in the FIRST round should automatically start. That's always been something I've felt should happen. Cause you're basically saying this is who we want the most. So they should start day one unless they just underperformed in TC or Pre-season

 

Your last sentence is the points.....

 

A lot of rookies don't start because the jump to the NFL in their first year is too much for them....   too fast for them...  too big for them....   too complicated for them....   too.....   something for them,....   and they're just not ready to start in their rookie season.

 

That's not that uncommon.

 

So,  while we want Werner to be good enough to start,  I don't expect it.

 

I expect him to play roughly 40-50 percent of the snaps, and see mostly situational duty depending on down and distance.

 

That's how the 49ers handled Aldon Smith his first year....   and how the Seahawks handled Bruce Irvan his rookie year.

 

That's more common than you might know......

[NewEra]

Your last sentence is the points.....

A lot of rookies don't start because the jump to the NFL in their first year is too much for them.... too fast for them... too big for them.... too complicated for them.... too..... something for them,.... and they're just not ready to start in their rookie season.

That's not that uncommon.

So, while we want Werner to be good enough to start, I don't expect it.

I expect him to play roughly 40-50 percent of the snaps, and see mostly situational duty depending on down and distance.

That's how the 49ers handled Aldon Smith his first year.... and how the Seahawks handled Bruce Irvan his rookie year.

That's more common than you might know......

I agree! We also don't need him to start. That's why we brought in walden. Now if he just wows the coaching staff and deserves to start that's a good thing to have. I think in our defense it doesn't matter who starts as much cause we will have a constant rotation in the lbing crew.

[SOMDColtsfan]

If we stop the run we are halfway home, the Colts D hasn`t been able to stop either really since the playoff push in `06. I`ll take that as progress

[FalseStart]

Stop Run = ~3-7 fewer points a game.

Stop Run = Colts Offense ~3-7 more points per game

[achcolts]

its simple. the way weve built this defense, the run stopping and pass rushing is simply going to make the passing defense better. having to cover and keep up with their guy for alot less time.  

[MAC]

Division leading/traditionally best teams in the AFC - Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Texans -

I'm not really getting into this conversation, I was just scratching my head about this line. Those are neither the division leaders NOR the "traditionally best teams" in the AFC.

[Crunked]

I think this alleged and elusive run stopping ability of which you speak......helps our secondary and pass rush. If we consistently stop the run, we take away the effectiveness of play action, and ultimately make the opponents play book shrink. When their playbook is smaller, now or defensive play calling gets much easier.....that is where film study and knowing your opponents trending and individual player "tells" then become valuable. suddenly you are only needing half of your defensive play book and the percentage of right defensive calls go up astronomically. Its like the lottery announcing we are no longer going to use odd numbers.......makes it much easier to win!

 

I am excited about the potential of this defense, and being a defensive minded Colt fan for years.....we have had nothing to crow about even after a decade of success! Can't wait!!!

[Stephen]

If we stop the run we will win our division and prob the afc. This will allow us to blow out teams like the jags and chiefs plus we'd have a great chance of beating 49ers and seattle and texans if we hold their backs and qbd well under 100 yards

[The Fish]

I'm sorry, but I have Werner starting opposite of Mathis and Walden being a back-up

Imo, ANYONE (No matter the position) you take in the FIRST round should automatically start. That's always been something I've felt should happen. Cause you're basically saying this is who we want the most. So they should start day one unless they just underperformed in TC or Pre-season

In a perfect scenario, a first round pick "should" be a starter, but that's not always the case, and for guys in the trenches, generally there's a good reason they don't start as rookies. Werner will get plenty of snaps either way. 

[Smonroe]

In a perfect scenario, a first round pick "should" be a starter, but that's not always the case, and for guys in the trenches, generally there's a good reason they don't start as rookies. Werner will get plenty of snaps either way.

At that position it really doesn't matter who starts. He may not start each series, but he may end up with more snaps than the starter. I think our rotation against the run looks pretty good on paper. Not sure about our pass rush or defense yet. Time will tell.

[DerpDahHerp]

This "strategy" isn't something thats going to work immediately because we just don't have the right personnel for it, but it is something that we're more working towards the future.  Think of it like the the Steelers a couple years back.  They had a dominant front 7 that allowed like under 90 rushing yards a game, but had people like James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley that would just just the QB.  

 

I think this is something we're trying to replicate, even the Ravens had something like this. Have good run stoppers like Lewis and Ngata and have a guy like Terrell Suggs dominate the pass rush.  And they didn't have the best of corners either, I mean yes they had guys like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu who take away half the backfield by themselves, but I think our secondary is better than what the Steelers/Ravens secondary were a couple years ago.

 

A better example now days is the 49ers.  Their D-Line is nothing extremely special minus Justin Smith and guys like Patrick Willis and Navarro Bowman cleaning up ball carriers and an Aldon Smith who just racks up sacks. 

 

So I don't think it is something that is going to be successful right away, but something we're building towards.

[chad72]

It is all SMonroe's fault!!!

[RGIII]

Your last sentence is the points.....

 

A lot of rookies don't start because the jump to the NFL in their first year is too much for them....   too fast for them...  too big for them....   too complicated for them....   too.....   something for them,....   and they're just not ready to start in their rookie season.

 

That's not that uncommon.

 

So,  while we want Werner to be good enough to start,  I don't expect it.

 

I expect him to play roughly 40-50 percent of the snaps, and see mostly situational duty depending on down and distance.

 

That's how the 49ers handled Aldon Smith his first year....   and how the Seahawks handled Bruce Irvan his rookie year.

 

That's more common than you might know......

 

I wouldn't count heavily on him not starting either.  The last college 4-3 DE that went completely under the radar as a potential 3-4 prospect that was drafted around where Werner went was Ryan Kerrigan, who I don't believe has been off the field for a single snap in his first two seasons.  Much like our situation two years back, I don't think you have anyone good enough to keep Werner off the field unless he completely fails to meet expectations.

 

I certainly don't have any reason to think highly enough of Walden to expect a Smith/Haralson situation and Werner doesn't quite have the one-dimensional, speed-rushing specialist pedigree that Irving has.  If anything, Werner should be fairly solid against the run.

[Superman]

I wouldn't count heavily on him not starting either.  The last college 4-3 DE that went completely under the radar as a potential 3-4 prospect that was drafted around where Werner went was Ryan Kerrigan, who I don't believe has been off the field for a single snap in his first two seasons.  Much like our situation two years back, I don't think you have anyone good enough to keep Werner off the field unless he completely fails to meet expectations.

 

I certainly don't have any reason to think highly enough of Walden to expect a Smith/Haralson situation and Werner doesn't quite have the one-dimensional, speed-rushing specialist pedigree that Irving has.  If anything, Werner should be fairly solid against the run.

 

I've compared Werner to Kerrigan several times already.

[Gavin]

Your last sentence is the points.....

 

A lot of rookies don't start because the jump to the NFL in their first year is too much for them....   too fast for them...  too big for them....   too complicated for them....   too.....   something for them,....   and they're just not ready to start in their rookie season.

 

That's not that uncommon.

 

So,  while we want Werner to be good enough to start,  I don't expect it.

 

I expect him to play roughly 40-50 percent of the snaps, and see mostly situational duty depending on down and distance.

 

That's how the 49ers handled Aldon Smith his first year....   and how the Seahawks handled Bruce Irvan his rookie year.

 

That's more common than you might know......

Well the 49ers did have (and still do I believe) Parys Haralson who obviously was not nearly the Linebacker/DE that Smith is but at the time was not a bad option, Im not saying that the 49ers could have afforded keep Smith behind Haralson (obviously Smith proved to be more then ready to start) but I dont think they were in a position where it was a must to hurry Smith, Same with the Seahawks who had Brandon Mebane, Alan Branch and Red Bryant, all of which could play DE so I dont think either team was in a absolute rush to get either player on the field, Truth be told I thought Irvin was a 2nd or 3rd rounder, A good pass rusher but needed to develop strength who also could not stop the run well at all, Unfortunately some teams have this idea that athletic indivduals make good football players especially lately, Irvin did well this year and what Aldon did speaks for itself so it dont speak to Aldon and maybe not even Irvin but perhaps more in general, Just my thoughts

[NewColtsFan]

I wouldn't count heavily on him not starting either.  The last college 4-3 DE that went completely under the radar as a potential 3-4 prospect that was drafted around where Werner went was Ryan Kerrigan, who I don't believe has been off the field for a single snap in his first two seasons.  Much like our situation two years back, I don't think you have anyone good enough to keep Werner off the field unless he completely fails to meet expectations.

 

I certainly don't have any reason to think highly enough of Walden to expect a Smith/Haralson situation and Werner doesn't quite have the one-dimensional, speed-rushing specialist pedigree that Irving has.  If anything, Werner should be fairly solid against the run.

 

 

I hope you're right....

 

Werner has been compared favorably to Kerrigan on several occasions...

[Smonroe]

It is all SMonroe's fault!!!

 

Hey, when did my wife hijack Chad's account?

[needanoline63]

I fully expect our defensive line to be much better. If we can stay healthy then Anything in pass or run less then 15th place in the league, would be seen as either a lack of talent or coaching.

[needanoline63]

I fully expect our defensive line to be much better. If we can stay healthy then Anything in pass or run less then 15th place in the league, would be seen as either a lack of talent or coaching.

[John Dee]

I wouldn't count heavily on him not starting either.  The last college 4-3 DE that went completely under the radar as a potential 3-4 prospect that was drafted around where Werner went was Ryan Kerrigan, who I don't believe has been off the field for a single snap in his first two seasons.  Much like our situation two years back, I don't think you have anyone good enough to keep Werner off the field unless he completely fails to meet expectations.

 

I certainly don't have any reason to think highly enough of Walden to expect a Smith/Haralson situation and Werner doesn't quite have the one-dimensional, speed-rushing specialist pedigree that Irving has.  If anything, Werner should be fairly solid against the run.

RK was not "under the radar" ..   and he was NOT projected as a 43 DE.......  

 

Sigh.....   

 

Ryan Kerrigan was the BTDPOY...     he was a STUD... and everyone watching this kid knew his calling was OLB in a 34.

 

He was BORN for it.....    I hope Bjorn becomes the player RK has.

[John Dee]

They are clones...   IMO...   

 

I hope you're right....

 

Werner has been compared favorably to Kerrigan on several occasions...

[NewColtsFan]

They are clones...   IMO...   

 

 

If that's true,   that would make me a very, very happy New Colts Fan!

[John Dee]

IMO, they truly are...   

 

I am a Big Ten man and I watch IU and PU football weekly....      YA I KNOW....   

 

But Purdue has had a very tough D lately...   and Kerrigan was the best player they have had in W Lafayette in a long time.

 

And to me Werner is just the same type player.      RK ran a bit faster but Wermer looks to be a bit bigger and is more physical.

 

But they both do have the same playing style.     BW will be alright.  ...   

If that's true,   that would make me a very, very happy New Colts Fan!

[Superman]

RK was not "under the radar" ..   and he was NOT projected as a 43 DE.......  

 

Sigh.....   

 

Ryan Kerrigan was the BTDPOY...     he was a STUD... and everyone watching this kid knew his calling was OLB in a 34.

 

He was BORN for it.....    I hope Bjorn becomes the player RK has.

 

There were questions about his ability to play either end or OLB in the NFL. He was considered a bit of a tweener because he doesn't have great size as an end, but doesn't have elite speed for an OLB and had little experience in coverage. I wouldn't say he went completely under the radar, but there were question marks.

[John Dee]

True .. but who does not have "questions?" ...

 

Kerrigan and Werner are productive....    

 

And then there was Jerry Hughes..... ...       ughhhh..

 

Dangit he looked GREAT on film..... 

There were questions about his ability to play either end or OLB in the NFL. He was considered a bit of a tweener because he doesn't have great size as an end, but doesn't have elite speed for an OLB and had little experience in coverage. I wouldn't say he went completely under the radar, but there were question marks.

[bballstud2]

I think that no matter how the defense performs, we should go 4-0 against the titans and the jaguars. So it comes down to the Texans as far as division games go. They do have a pretty good passing game with Schaub, AJ and now Deandre Hopkins, but if we can shut down Foster we should win both of those games, if not at least one. As far as other tough games on the schedule, if we can stop the run against the Seahawks and the 49ers, those should be wins if we shut down Lynch, Wilson, Kaepernick and Gore/Lattimore if he plays. So I think if our run defense can play at a high level we should be in good shape as far as the regular season goes, but it will be a lot tougher in the postseason if we play the patriots, Broncos or the ravens. Like we saw in last years playoff game, you need a good secondary if you're going to go deep in the playoffs.

[RGIII]

There were questions about his ability to play either end or OLB in the NFL. He was considered a bit of a tweener because he doesn't have great size as an end, but doesn't have elite speed for an OLB and had little experience in coverage. I wouldn't say he went completely under the radar, but there were question marks.

 

Exactly.  He was clearly a first round talent but he wasn't viewed as a surefire 3-4 OLB prospect in the same way that Aldon Smith or even Von Miller were that year.  Heck, I remember Akeem Ayers had more buzz as a rush LB that draft.

[Qwiz]

Exactly.  He was clearly a first round talent but he wasn't viewed as a surefire 3-4 OLB prospect in the same way that Aldon Smith or even Von Miller were that year.  Heck, I remember Akeem Ayers had more buzz as a rush LB that draft.

Yep. I don't remember many people talking about that Watt guy either. Sometimes the guys who don't get much attention turn out to be the best. Funny how fate works

[Superman]

Yep. I don't remember many people talking about that Watt guy either. Sometimes the guys who don't get much attention turn out to be the best. Funny how fate works

 

Too many quarterbacks in the first round that year for Watt to get a lot of fanfare. I, for one, facepalmed when the Texans took Watt. I viewed him as a great piece for Wade Phillips, and then you took Brooks Reed in the second round, and I had to go get drunk.

[Qwiz]

Too many quarterbacks in the first round that year for Watt to get a lot of fanfare. I, for one, facepalmed when the Texans took Watt. I viewed him as a great piece for Wade Phillips, and then you took Brooks Reed in the second round, and I had to go get drunk.

I facepalmed too, but it was because I hated the pick . I was hoping for Fairley, Quinn, or another corner, and I had heard of Watt but never thought that we would take him. I loved the Brooks Reed pick though. Now I see that we made a great decision in the first round as well.

[Stephen]

Hence, the topic of this thread. Okay, let's pretend we're the OC of a team facing the Colts. We know they're going to put emphasis on stopping our run game. What do we do? Well, teams like SF and Seattle may say we're going to run it anyway.

But if we're an average team we're going to run bubble screens and cut backs, everything we can to make those big uglies run sideline to sideline, right? Wear them down.

I'm not saying stopping the run isn't a good thing. I'm saying, okay -then what? Are we fast enough to roll with TEs, or deep enough to cover the slot? We should be seeing a lot of quick passes, will our DBs play tight enough to stop the 8 yard slant?

I really don't know, but I can't wait to find out!

I don 't think we will get beat by a bunch of bubble screens. Frankly I'm getting tired of teams running all over us. Like 09 when the dolphins had the ball for three quarters by simply running the ball. Or like last year when the jets running back single handly embarrassed us. Then jones drew getting shut down by other teams then running all over us which kept the game closer than it should have been. Plus the chiefs game when Charles got us for big yardage.If we stop the run we can prob get a few more possessions a game and put up more points. Plus with the depth we now have we shouldn't get wore out by bubble screens.

[Smonroe]

I don 't think we will get beat by a bunch of bubble screens. Frankly I'm getting tired of teams running all over us. Like 09 when the dolphins had the ball for three quarters by simply running the ball. Or like last year when the jets running back single handly embarrassed us. Then jones drew getting shut down by other teams then running all over us which kept the game closer than it should have been. Plus the chiefs game when Charles got us for big yardage.If we stop the run we can prob get a few more possessions a game and put up more points. Plus with the depth we now have we shouldn't get wore out by bubble screens.

 

Teams are going to go with whatever the D's give them.  If we sell out against the run, it doesn't necessarily mean our pass D is going to be any better.  

 

I think our D made great strides last season, considering the lack of talent and most of the guys learning a new system.  I'm anxious to see what the new guys bring.