Polian - Doesn't Believe in Resting Starters

[ConBro]

Yeah when I read this on PFT today it legitimately ruined my afternoon. It was like ripping stitches. Can't stand Bill Polian.

[ConBro]

I am LEGITIMATELY in shock. 

 

I mean, seriously?

 

I never, ever thought I'd hear myself say this, but someone call up brad wells and have him dig up his transcript of the bill polian show the Monday after pulling the starters in 2009. 

 

The more polian speaks these days, the more respect I lose for him. His ability to evaluate talent was great.

 

Beyond that, the man is a walking mess.

Couldn't have put it any better myself.

[Black-Vell]

Since I started the thread I'll respond to this.  If you read my opening post, take it exactly as I wrote it.  It's Colts related because Polian worked for the Colts.  It points out that he doesn't support resting players in the NFL.  The Colts rested players.  Did you see anything in it that demonizes him?

 

These are facts.  You are inferring a lot of different points that weren't present in that post.  You may have gotten those from various responses, but the point of the forum is to discuss Colts football.

 

Personally, I've always been a Polian apologist, if you will.  I don't care that he has an abrasive personality or how he treated the media.  

 

Again, you have the right to your opinion, and I welcome it.  But please don't assume anything more than I wrote.  I never laid blame, or looked for a scape goat.  I merely presented the facts.

Yes - I touched on your OP in my 1st post - the 2nd post was directed towards responses to and around my 1st post.

 

I dont have any negative thoughts or feelings towards anyones post. My tone may have been reserved because since I just joined last week - I didnt realise this was a subject with so many miles on it. So I felt maybe I should have skipped getting involved & wanted to mix in a final thought.

[Fx Stryker]

What if it was Jim Irsay's idea....

 

Because now Bill Polian and Tony Dungy have both stated they don't believe in resting starters.

[GoColts8818]

What if it was Jim Irsay's idea....

He would have tweeted about it by now. 

 

For the record that's a joke.

[Jason_]

Polian advocated, on several occasions, the practice of resting starters at the end of the season, so long as seeding was locked up. He defended it very aggressively as well. I don't think there should be any question whether this was his strategy or not.

 

I'm not saying it wasn't ALSO his strategy...dungy also said several times that resting the starters was the way to go.  I'm saying I don't think that Polian forced the decision on anyone because I don't think Dungy or Caldwell disagreed.  So in that regard I guess you could say it was Polian's strategy, but it was also, imo, dungy and Caldwell's strategy as well so I don't think there's any reason to hold Polian solely responsible for the decision or say that it was HIS directive and not the entire staff's.

[Superman]

I'm not saying it wasn't ALSO his strategy...dungy also said several times that resting the starters was the way to go.  I'm saying I don't think that Polian forced the decision on anyone because I don't think Dungy or Caldwell disagreed.  So in that regard I guess you could say it was Polian's strategy, but it was also, imo, dungy and Caldwell's strategy as well so I don't think there's any reason to hold Polian solely responsible for the decision or say that it was HIS directive and not the entire staff's.

 

Polian several times told a story about how, back with the Bills, they held Thurman Thomas out of a game at the end of the season to keep him fresh for the playoffs. He just missed out on a significant regular season milestone, and Polian was always bothered that it might hurt his HOF candidacy.

 

I don't know if that story holds up to scrutiny, but Polian inferred that his teams, even back with the Bills, would rest starters at the end of the season.

 

Maybe it wasn't JUST a Polian philosophy, but there's no washing his hands of this issue.

[GoColts8818]

Polian several times told a story about how, back with the Bills, they held Thurman Thomas out of a game at the end of the season to keep him fresh for the playoffs. He just missed out on a significant regular season milestone, and Polian was always bothered that it might hurt his HOF candidacy.

 

I don't know if that story holds up to scrutiny, but Polian inferred that his teams, even back with the Bills, would rest starters at the end of the season.

 

Maybe it wasn't JUST a Polian philosophy, but there's no washing his hands of this issue.

Right but I think Jason's main point was that I don't think it was all Polian's idea either like some try to play it off like.  I think the truth is probably Polian and the coaches agreed on it.  I've never understood why people find it so hard to believe that Polian and Caldwell might have agreed with the plan in 2009.  Frankly Caldwell was the Head Coach so if Caldwell didn't agree with it he didn't have to yank the starters.  What was Polian going to do?  Fire a coach who was 15-0 at that point in his career? Frankly in 1999 the Colts had a chance to rest against the Bills or at least yank the starters when they were getting pounded by the Bills at the end of the year and Mora didn't do it.  So I do think Polian does listen to his coaches and comes up with a plan that both sides agree on.  I am sure Polian also makes his points as well. 

[Larry Horseman]

That's still different from actively trying to lose by sitting players that you would otherwise play.

 

As for Baltimore, maybe it does happen in the NFL. I won't speak to that. I'm not even comfortable criticizing an NBA team for sitting their starters in this situation. Like I said, Polian shouldn't have said anything about it. I'm not defending his point.

 

But it is a world of difference. Polian's teams made a habit of sitting players at the end of the season, but only once seeding was completely locked up. They never tried to lose in order to get a more favorable matchup.

The intent may be different but how it happens and the outcomes are the same. That's my point.

[smittywerb]

Who cares? We lost the Super Bowl.

 

 

That SB still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  We played so freaking conservative!

[BlueShoe]

Caldwell was almost still brought back.  If Spagnuolo had agreed to be the new DC then Caldwell would still be here.

 

Bull. lol

[AntonMcG]

Yeah he was in charge of the organization, but there's no direct evidence imo to suggest that he had anything to do with in-game decisions.  he was in charge of players, personnel and front office staffing but he was not in charge of game-planning, scheming or anything like that, at least to my understanding.  Sure it happened on his watch, but it was also on Dungy's, and then Caldwell's watch and Dungy has said numerous times that resting the starters in meaningless games is his preference, and Caldwell is essentially a clone of dungy so I have no reason to think that Caldwell wouldn't have the same mindset.  

 

I honestly don't remember this far back but perhaps someone does or can find information about buffalo and Carolina when Polian was there?  did those teams rest the starters during meaningless games?  if there is a track record dating back to Carolina and Buffalo then there's definitely a case to be made that it was Polian's directive, but with the information I have now I personally see this more as a Dungy -> Caldwell decision.

 

At the end of the day, the GM is in charge. This is not an insignificant enough decision for him not to be involved in the process. Caldwell, Polian and others would have sat in a room and discussed this when the Colts were 14-0 and decided whether to rest the starts or not, and when push comes to shove, the buck rests with Polian.

 

And whilst I acknowledge the points of his comments being misinterpreted... maybe somewhat, but he still said what he said, and that is that starters should not be rested... that is hypocritical, no two ways about it.

 

The issue here is that it is not the first time he has been a complete hypocrite and it is aggravating to me to know that in the greatest era in the history of this franchise, this was the man in charge.

[braveheartcolt]

I cannot believe that Caldwell made the decison rather than Polian, but I digress. To me, the worst part of the whole resting nonesense was allowing Reggie, Dallas and Manning etc to even START the Bills game in the blizzard, just to let the players achieve a few personal milestones. It was a disgrace and who ever allowed that to happen should have been fired on the spot.

I said Polian was a joke nearly 5 years before 2009, and I had the pitchfork brigade after me (most of the forum) for most of that time. How things change.....

[Fx Stryker]

I cannot believe that Caldwell made the decison rather than Polian, but I digress. To me, the worst part of the whole resting nonesense was allowing Reggie, Dallas and Manning etc to even START the Bills game in the blizzard, just to let the players achieve a few personal milestones. It was a disgrace and who ever allowed that to happen should have been fired on the spot.

I said Polian was a joke nearly 5 years before 2009, and I had the pitchfork brigade after me (most of the forum) for most of that time. How things change.....

 

Didn't you become a fan in 2004?

[pacolts56]

All I know is that Peyton Manning characterized all this as an "organizational philosophy".....and I take that to mean that it was not a one-time situational decision, but a....well, "philosophy" just like Manning called it. Jim Caldwell did NOT drive organizational philosophies for the Colts so we can cancel him out as the culprit.

 

And from that standpoint....I find it nearly impossible that Polian, with the authority he had at that point, didn't have nearly veto proof power to force Caldwell to play the starters all the way thru or sit them as he saw fit. Because let's also remember....a largely hands-off Jim Irsay himself commented when he finally fired the Polians that (paraphrased) "I'm taking my team back".

 

So in light of Manning's comments and the Polian's hegemony over the organization at the time....I think Bill is flip-flopping like a panic-stricken halibut on a fishing boat.

[Smonroe]

All I know is that Peyton Manning characterized all this as an "organizational philosophy".....and I take that to mean that it was not a one-time situational decision, but a....well, "philosophy" just like Manning called it. Jim Caldwell did NOT drive organizational philosophies for the Colts so we can cancel him out as the culprit.

 

And from that standpoint....I find it nearly impossible that Polian, with the authority he had at that point, didn't have nearly veto proof power to force Caldwell to play the starters all the way thru or sit them as he saw fit. Because let's also remember....a largely hands-off Jim Irsay himself commented when he finally fired the Polians that (paraphrased) "I'm taking my team back".

 

So in light of Manning's comments and the Polian's hegemony over the organization at the time....I think Bill is flip-flopping like a panic-stricken halibut on a fishing boat.

Hegemony! I'll give you a 'like' just for using the new word of the day. (And a good post)

[BrentMc11]

All I know is that Peyton Manning characterized all this as an "organizational philosophy".....and I take that to mean that it was not a one-time situational decision, but a....well, "philosophy" just like Manning called it. Jim Caldwell did NOT drive organizational philosophies for the Colts so we can cancel him out as the culprit.

 

And from that standpoint....I find it nearly impossible that Polian, with the authority he had at that point, didn't have nearly veto proof power to force Caldwell to play the starters all the way thru or sit them as he saw fit. Because let's also remember....a largely hands-off Jim Irsay himself commented when he finally fired the Polians that (paraphrased) "I'm taking my team back".

 

So in light of Manning's comments and the Polian's hegemony over the organization at the time....I think Bill is flip-flopping like a panic-stricken halibut on a fishing boat.

OK.....so I had to look that one up too!!  Hegemony:  To Hedge on one's alimony.  (OK...so I made that up....domination...)  

[Jason_]

Bull. lol

 

Um, ok.  You do recall I hope that Caldwell was present with Grigson during Spagnuolo's interview.  It was only after Spags (my assumption) laughed in their faces at the prospect of working FOR Caldwell that Grigson realized that no decent coordinator would come to Indy to work under Caldwell as the HC, and it was the following Monday I believe when Caldwell's firing was announced.  Had Spags agreed to come here as the DC, then Caldwell, who again WAS PRESENT during that interview, would still be here as the head coach.

[Jason_]

Right but I think Jason's main point was that I don't think it was all Polian's idea either like some try to play it off like.  I think the truth is probably Polian and the coaches agreed on it.  I've never understood why people find it so hard to believe that Polian and Caldwell might have agreed with the plan in 2009.  Frankly Caldwell was the Head Coach so if Caldwell didn't agree with it he didn't have to yank the starters.  What was Polian going to do?  Fire a coach who was 15-0 at that point in his career? Frankly in 1999 the Colts had a chance to rest against the Bills or at least yank the starters when they were getting pounded by the Bills at the end of the year and Mora didn't do it.  So I do think Polian does listen to his coaches and comes up with a plan that both sides agree on.  I am sure Polian also makes his points as well. 

 

I agree 100%

[lollygagger8]

Na'Polian makes me lol.

 

 

Reminds me of the Chappelle Show episode where Rick James says he wouldn't grind his feet into Eddie Murphy's couch, and then 5 seconds later says "Yeah, I remember grinding my feet into Eddie's couch." LOL

[braveheartcolt]

 

Didn't you become a fan in 2004?

Yes. And your point is?

[colts_mp]

Maybe you're one of the majority on this board who believed Polian and Caldwell would not be fired if we only won a few games in 2011. Sounds about right to me.

If Manning wasn't hurt or we had any sort of backup QB they would all still be here.

[Fx Stryker]

 

Yes. And your point is?

 

No point. Just that by your statement means you have never liked Polian. Which is strange because he really didn't make many mistake up until that point.

 

So I am curious to as why you never liked him.

[braveheartcolt]

No point. Just that by your statement means you have never liked Polian. Which is strange because he really didn't make many mistake up until that point.

 

So I am curious to as why you never liked him.

My dislike for him in those days was about his character. We know all those traits, but most excepted them because they felt he was some kind of footballing genius. All I saw was someone who got lucky with Manning, and had endless disagreements on here about that. I saw him as an over inflated egotist who rode on Peyton's shoulders. What happened from 2007 onwards was not a surprise to me.

It is bad enough watching an arrogant dictator ruin your club without them bringing in their family to accelerate the downfall. When he and his incompetent son were fired, I started to believe again.

I don't expect this to be a popular post.

[oldunclemark]

  Add me to the list of folks who are amazed he said this and somewhat stunned that the Mikes didnt check him on it...

 

 

(although ESPN as a whole doesn't watch the Colts very closely....one of their analysts still said that Donnie Avery was on the team last week)

 

 

But Polian showed he  is in the Brian Kelly level when it comes to being a saying one thing one day and reverisng himself at warp speed the next ..

 

You can have any opinion you want but only free range liars can be on opposite ends of the same opinion.

[Smonroe]

  Add me to the list of folks who are amazed he said this and somewhat stunned that the Mikes didnt check him on it...

 

 

(although ESPN as a whole doesn't watch the Colts very closely....one of their analysts still said that Donnie Avery was on the team last week)

 

 

But Polian showed he  is in the Brian Kelly level when it comes to being a saying one thing one day and reverisng himself at warp speed the next ..

 

You can have any opinion you want but only free range liars can be on opposite ends of the same opinion.

 

"The past is prologue"

 

We'll probably never know the real story.

[braveheartcolt]

"The past is prologue"

 

We'll probably never know the real story.

Very true. But we will always remember how sick we felt when we watched it happen.

[southwest1]

Bro. Don't forget your torches.

Don't worry I brought extras.

Oh goody, we get to reenact a Medieval Joan of Arc burning at the stake revival session...And people say that history is boring  Far from it in my estimation...

 

[willysp]

My dislike for him in those days was about his character. We know all those traits, but most excepted them because they felt he was some kind of footballing genius. All I saw was someone who got lucky with Manning, and had endless disagreements on here about that. I saw him as an over inflated egotist who rode on Peyton's shoulders. What happened from 2007 onwards was not a surprise to me.

It is bad enough watching an arrogant dictator ruin your club without them bringing in their family to accelerate the downfall. When he and his incompetent son were fired, I started to believe again.

I don't expect this to be a popular post.

 

Good post. I believe that you are spot on.

 

I was getting ready to make a post about character, but now don't need to.  Polian's recent statement doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

[BrentMc11]

My dislike for him in those days was about his character. We know all those traits, but most excepted them because they felt he was some kind of footballing genius. All I saw was someone who got lucky with Manning, and had endless disagreements on here about that. I saw him as an over inflated egotist who rode on Peyton's shoulders. What happened from 2007 onwards was not a surprise to me.

It is bad enough watching an arrogant dictator ruin your club without them bringing in their family to accelerate the downfall. When he and his incompetent son were fired, I started to believe again.

I don't expect this to be a popular post.

Have you ever had a popular post?    (Your very first post to me I was ready to hop the Red Eye!!)  

 

  

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Yes - I touched on your OP in my 1st post - the 2nd post was directed towards responses to and around my 1st post.

 

I dont have any negative thoughts or feelings towards anyones post. My tone may have been reserved because since I just joined last week - I didnt realise this was a subject with so many miles on it. So I felt maybe I should have skipped getting involved & wanted to mix in a final thought.

 

As a newbie a few months ago I realized members here last year already talked about Manning according to some at naseum , IMO there over it , The problem is not Manning & Polian its those that have talked it to death feel the need to shut others down who have not . New members find out theres a list of topics already covered & those are now off limits to future members or so it seems . IMO those that don't wish to relive a topic don't need too . The rules should include this ever increasing list if in fact it is taboo to bring up subjects that were talked about in the past .. The we've already talked about this Mantra is getting old .

[swflacoltsfans]

He also said whoever loses the Patriots vs Giants game will not make the playoffs. what a stupid comment. It is one game and will not determine if either team can make the playoffs or not.

He better increase his meds.