If we sign RJF, our D will be top 10 in points allowed and 3rd down D

[USAFHoosier]

Anything is possible as long as the unit gels together.  As long as the D improves from last year im happy.

[Stratos]

He actually started 3 games last yr. San Fran is loaded with defensive talent and DE's and NT's(both positions he played) do not rack up stats. I am so sick of the negative nellie's posting nothing but negative remarks constantly. Nobody has claimed that RJF was the answer to all our problems. He's a nice piece to the puzzle and an upgrade to what we have now. 

 

When I say started - I mean, he actually beat out someone to start the game - not to replace an injury. Whats the difference between him and the other DL that we currently have. Now if you were to tell me that we were signing Glenn Dorsey, then I would get excited. (I know GD signed with 9ers)

[Warhawk]

He is not the answer no more than Walden is there pieces in a puzzle that Ryan Grigson is putting together , IMO people want a quick fix & are ready to talk smack based on moves made by our GM . Who is a very good judge of talent  & what it will take to be a winner long term based on his first year I'm convinced he has the knowledge & skill to build a Championship team  .

 

I'm a Bricklayer not a player personnel dude & my opinion is simple with all the talk about FA it is clear some here have forgotten 1 simple thing . No one here has the skill to build & assemble the pieces that it'll take to be a elite team .

 

So I personally think people should relax & not take there selves to serious . Although I must admit reading posts by self proclaimed genius's on a message board ,talking smack about the moves a GM makes as he makes them is hysterical ,

How these players fit in & play here as Colts remains to be seen .

 

You're missing my point, I'm not saying he's not worth signing, I'm saying that I keep seeing people around here suggesting that his addition to the team would magically turn us into a great defense, and that he's worth as much or more than Landry or Cherilus.

[Balzer40]

When I say started - I mean, he actually beat out someone to start the game - not to replace an injury. Whats the difference between him and the other DL that we currently have. Now if you were to tell me that we were signing Glenn Dorsey, then I would get excited. (I know GD signed with 9ers)

 

 

Dorsey has been a bust since he came into the league. Many in K.C. couldn't wait to him get him out. Who is he like that is already on the roster? He will be a rotational player for our D-line. He can play RDE or LDE, he also played NT in San Fran., but I doubt if he would here. He will get a minimal contract and I just can't understand why anybody that has 1 ounce of football common sense wouldn't like this signing.

[BrentMc11]

In no way, shape or form does one 295 pound DL make this a top 10 defense.  Team defense wins the game.

 

We have a draft coming in I believe 42 days that have studs deep into the draft.  I am interested in how the likes of Conner (excellent run defender) Angerer, and Freeman do in the second year in this defense.  Moal will not be healthy to open, so who makes a difference up front?  Doe Nevis get to stay and show his motor (not a perfect fit I know)

 

RJF is solid....I do not know about anybody else, but I am anxious to see what the "Sidbury Beast" can do.  Some analysts have set he was vastly under-used in Atlanta....as I have said...time will tell.    

[throwing BBZ]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-cornerbacks/

I dont consider Toler an upgrade at least yet, I think Toler and Powers are close to the same talent wise 

 

 Except Toler is considered a good press corner and Powers is considered a ???? cover two man.

 

PFF uses some formula to evaluate talent. ???  I would think they try hard to make the #`s have some level of fairness.
 Is it factored for a lame pass rush? :yay:

 Toler came in at 7 on their FA list.
 Powers like 55

Vaughn dead last!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-cornerbacks/

[Balzer40]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-cornerbacks/

 

 Except Toler is considered a good press corner and Powers is considered a ???? cover two man.

 

PFF uses some formula to evaluate talent. ???  I would think they try hard to make the #`s have some level of fairness.

 Is it factored for a lame pass rush? :yay:

 Toler came in at 7 on their FA list.

 Powers like 55

Vaughn dead last!

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/01/01/free-agent-cornerbacks/

 

 

I've been trying to point this out to Gavin since yesterday and you're wasting your time. Gavin is dead set in his own talent evaluating skills and since Toler don't match what Gavin thinks, then obviously he this Toler sucks. It's amaing Gavin hasn't been snatched up by some NFL team in need of a lead scout.

[throwing BBZ]

I've been trying to point this out to Gavin since yesterday and you're wasting your time. Gavin is dead set in his own talent evaluating skills and since Toler don't match what Gavin thinks, then obviously he this Toler sucks. It's amaing Gavin hasn't been snatched up by some NFL team in need of a lead scout.

Well, right or wrong, a difference of opinion, we Love it.

One thing about a DB, this is Coach P`s area of expertise.  He has Griggs, the Jimmy dude, his DB coach, Manusky, his scouts, ALL of them studying on spending Millions of bucks on choosing THE Right Guy (for the $$$). The guy that will make them LOOK Smart!

 Someone (Griggs i guess) has to know how to negotiate at this level.

They have a plan to fill a BUNCH of holes. Right now I am Loving their broad attack.

 

 Kinda goofey for us Arm Chairs to pick on players very much. I just haven`t watched every game Toler has ever played, and witnessed how well he performed against good QB`s and receivers. We got the eyeball test on some of them. lol

When can we start seriously stressing over the draft?  

[Andy]

RJF will not make this defense a top 10 in PA.

 

He's not even a sure-fire starter. Even if he's signed and starts, I doubt he'll have a big impact. He didn't really have a big one in SF, but showed good signs. 

[Balzer40]

Well, right or wrong, a difference of opinion, we Love it.

One thing about a DB, this is Coach P`s area of expertise.  He has Griggs, the Jimmy dude, his DB coach, Manusky, his scouts, ALL of them studying on spending Millions of bucks on choosing THE Right Guy (for the $$$). The guy that will make them LOOK Smart!

 Someone (Griggs i guess) has to know how to negotiate at this level.

They have a plan to fill a BUNCH of holes. Right now I am Loving their broad attack.

 

 Kinda goofey for us Arm Chairs to pick on players very much. I just haven`t watched every game Toler has ever played, and witnessed how well he performed against good QB`s and receivers. We got the eyeball test on some of them. lol

When can we start seriously stressing over the draft?  

 

 

 

I agree, It all boils down to that most of the people throwing hissy fits have very little knowledge of football. They know the bigger names and since we aren't signing those names, they think we are doing terrible. Grigson and Pagano obviously had a plan to build the team on all levels and they are doing just that. we've improved in all area's and not just added 1 or "star" players. Philly should have taught every football fan a lesson with the "dream team". They were an epic failure when most thought they were super bowl shoe in's. 

[BrentMc11]

In no way, shape or form does one 295 pound DL make this a top 10 defense.  Team defense wins the game.

 

We have a draft coming in I believe 42 days that have studs deep into the draft.  I am interested in how the likes of Conner (excellent run defender) Angerer, and Freeman do in the second year in this defense.  Moal will not be healthy to open, so who makes a difference up front?  Doe Nevis get to stay and show his motor (not a perfect fit I know)

 

RJF is solid....I do not know about anybody else, but I am anxious to see what the "Sidbury Beast" can do.  Some analysts have set he was vastly under-used in Atlanta....as I have said...time will tell.    

OK...I am on my laptop today.....looks like I need my readers to edit.....very sorry writing...my apologies....Oh well...I am good most of the time

[Balzer40]

RJF will not make this defense a top 10 in PA.

 

He's not even a sure-fire starter. Even if he's signed and starts, I doubt he'll have a big impact. He didn't really have a big one in SF, but showed good signs. 

 

 

 

Once again, the point of this thread isn't that RJF will make us a top 10 defense by himself. It's that by adding him with the other pieces we've added could propel us into a top 10 defense. That is very possible as long as they stay disciplined and play to their capabilities. Nobody and I mean NOBODY thought we were an 11 win team last yr., but we were. We have done nothing but get much better so far this offseason. 

[Narcosys]

I think with Toler, we are marginally better at Corner than we were to start last year with Davis and JP. If either he or Davis get hurt then we're back to square one.

Why are so many people so high on Vontae Davis? Qb's throwing to him had like a 93.5 passer rating. That's horrible. He did well sometimes but most of the time was beat or couldn't stay with his man. He good occasionally but not as good as everyone seems to give him credit for. He only had like 7 passes defended and 3 interceptions. I would love to see how many times he was targeted for comparison. I can't seem to find that number. I know he was non existent against the ravens.

[BrentMc11]

I agree, It all bolis down to that most of the people throwing hissy fits have very little knowledge of football. They know the bigger names and since we aren't signing those names, they think we are doing terrible. Grigson and Pagano obviously had a plan to build the team on all levels and they are doing just that. we've improved in all area's and not just added 1 or "star" players. Philly should have taught every football fan a lesson with the "dream team". They were an epic failure when most thought they were super bowl shoe in's. 

I said all along we would not see 'stars in our eyes' with Grigson....he brings the 2nd tier/3rd tier knowledge...and even lower.  (See Freeman, Killeen, Kelley, Hickman, and Dom Jones)  Yes I salivated with the 'names mentioned' at times...."

 

This is a marathon...not a sprint....I am glad we have Grigson instead of Na'Polian at this stage of the Colts.  I am also glad Irsay seem to really have had a vision when letting go of our legendary 18.  If we build this defense....we wil win games 37-0 instead of 43-40 in the Manning era.      

[Andy]

Once again, the point of this thread isn't that RJF will make us a top 10 defense by himself. It's that by adding him with the other pieces we've added could propel us into a top 10 defense. That is very possible as long as they stay disciplined and play to their capabilities. Nobody and I mean NOBODY thought we were an 11 win team last yr., but we were. We have done nothing but get much better so far this offseason. 

 

Gotcha. The thread title was "if we sign him, the D will be top 10." Easy to get confused. 

 

I still stand by what I said about RJF.

[TKnight24]

Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing what big Chapman is gonna bring to us. I'll be content if we sign RJF but as far as dline, I really wanna see Chapman in action

[CardiacColts]

Honestly, I'm more interested in seeing what big Chapman is gonna bring to us. I'll be content if we sign RJF but as far as dline, I really wanna see Chapman in action

I would be VERY satisfied with a DE combo of Redding and a promising RJF; however, I am with you. I am DIEING to know what we have in Chappy. I think him and McKinnie could be very stout (If healthy... BIG if).

[IndyD4U]

No, given all the pieces we have signed, I think RJF will add more to the talent level that has already been assembled and will fit nicely. The talent we have will vault us to the top 10 in those categories I mentioned, IMO, once RJF is part of our squad.

 

↑↑THIS↑↑

[MikeVander]

Defense tends to feed upon itself.. as one area gets stronger, other areas will appear better as well. 

 

Coincidentally, Landry probably improves both run defense and pass coverage.  

[Balzer40]

Gotcha. The thread title was "if we sign him, the D will be top 10." Easy to get confused. 

 

I still stand by what I said about RJF.

 

 

I get ya. RJF is just a piece of the puzzle. He would be a good signing IMO. I think the reason he wasn't more noticeable in San Fran is because they were loaded with talent.

[throwing BBZ]

Those of you who think Moala was even decent last year paid NO attention.

[BrentMc11]

Those of you who think Moala was even decent last year paid NO attention.

Cannot agree at all on this one BBs....Moala did what he was supposed to do in the new defense...that is why Grigs signed him back up...watched every game.  I thought he looked better than Redding.  Redding got hrt and missed plays in almost every game...Moala ground it out until his knee gave way....He was solid, and I wish he was healthy to start her.

 

I made a post on this months ago when someone said Moala should go.....the 3-4 fits this guy...and he loves it.

[NewEra]

We got him!!

[Warhawk]

I agree, It all boils down to that most of the people throwing hissy fits have very little knowledge of football. They know the bigger names and since we aren't signing those names, they think we are doing terrible. Grigson and Pagano obviously had a plan to build the team on all levels and they are doing just that. we've improved in all area's and not just added 1 or "star" players. Philly should have taught every football fan a lesson with the "dream team". They were an epic failure when most thought they were super bowl shoe in's. 

 

I like to think of it as, we ARE signing big-name players.  Their names just aren't big YET.

[Jason_]

Cannot agree at all on this one BBs....Moala did what he was supposed to do in the new defense...that is why Grigs signed him back up...watched every game.  I thought he looked better than Redding.  Redding got hrt and missed plays in almost every game...Moala ground it out until his knee gave way....He was solid, and I wish he was healthy to start her.

 

I made a post on this months ago when someone said Moala should go.....the 3-4 fits this guy...and he loves it.

 

I almost agree...I wouldn't say Moala looked better than Redding, but I was very pleased with Moala in the new defense and definitely think it suits him better than the 4-3 did.  That's another thing that makes Redding stick out too, he's very effective on the interior in a 4-man front as well.  He's  a very good hybrid 3-tech/5-tech.  Moala isn't as good in a 4-man front but I'd say he's still above average.  

[Slick_Rick]

I think Walden is more of an insurance plan in case Jerry Hughes doesn't work out. I think this is Grigs telling Hughes to earn his keep or lose it.

[chad72]

I think Walden is more of an insurance plan in case Jerry Hughes doesn't work out. I think this is Grigs telling Hughes to earn his keep or lose it.

 

Quite an expensive insurance plan, I may add.

[throwing BBZ]

Cannot agree at all on this one BBs....Moala did what he was supposed to do in the new defense...that is why Grigs signed him back up...watched every game.  I thought he looked better than Redding.  Redding got hrt and missed plays in almost every game...Moala ground it out until his knee gave way....He was solid, and I wish he was healthy to start her.

 

I made a post on this months ago when someone said Moala should go.....the 3-4 fits this guy...and he loves it.

Brent, your eyes deceive you. He couldn`t make a play and did NOTHING. 2 tackles in 8 games, Did you SEE That?

12 assists. 5 in one game against Buffalo. You need to look up the numbers on average players that play the position.

No good to be a Homer on Fili. The record speaks.

 NOONE that started was less effective than Fili.  No way a co-ordinator expects a guy to get manhandled and not be able to shed a block. 

 

 Like you said Redding played hurt a lot.

14 games

22 tackles 14 assists 2 sacks 4 passes defended

Moala

8 games

2 tackles I mean the guy couldn`t shed a block- pitifull I watched it too.

12 assists 5 in one game (Buffalo)  basically squat in the other 7 games.

 0 sacks

1 PD

 

[Stoney]

I dont consider Toler an upgrade at least yet, I think Toler and Powers are close to the same talent wise 

You have got to be one of the most negative guys i have ever seen.

[jvan1973]

Gavin, I have just come to realize that you are going to hate any move we make simply because you think your evaluations are for some reason more credible that the experts. So I will just leave you alone to wallow in you hate.

out of likes

[BrentMc11]

I almost agree...I wouldn't say Moala looked better than Redding, but I was very pleased with Moala in the new defense and definitely think it suits him better than the 4-3 did.  That's another thing that makes Redding stick out too, he's very effective on the interior in a 4-man front as well.  He's  a very good hybrid 3-tech/5-tech.  Moala isn't as good in a 4-man front but I'd say he's still above average.  

love Redding's leadership, and that in itself makes him better as a DT...Moala was solid...Redding needs a little better pain thresh-hold ....I agree with ya Jason!  

[Gavin]

You have got to be one of the most negative guys i have ever seen.

I forgot I am supposed to blindly be a homer and drool at every little player Grigs signs because he is the GM and never makes a bad decision...Thank you for showing me the error of my own free will thinking ways of judging what I see with my own eyes

[BrentMc11]

Brent, your eyes deceive you. He couldn`t make a play and did NOTHING. 2 tackles in 8 games, Did you SEE That?

12 assists. 5 in one game against Buffalo. You need to look up the numbers on average players that play the position.

No good to be a Homer on Fili. The record speaks.

 NOONE that started was less effective than Fili.  No way a co-ordinator expects a guy to get manhandled and not be able to shed a block. 

 

 Like you said Redding played hurt a lot.

14 games

22 tackles 14 assists 2 sacks 4 passes defended

Moala

8 games

2 tackles I mean the guy couldn`t shed a block- pitifull I watched it too.

12 assists 5 in one game (Buffalo)  basically squat in the other 7 games.

 0 sacks

1 PD

 

My eyes suck  I think he was much better than you portray...that is why Grigs wanted him back....

 

I think we see eye to eye on a lot of things these days...beware...because my eyes deceive me     

[Jules]

This D could really surprise.....

[BOTT]

And in those 3 games, what we learned was how much Justin Smith really means to that defense. As soon as he got injured, their D played horrible football. It wasn't because RJF was horrible, it's just that the 49ers are used to having an All-Pro playing at a Hall of Fame caliber manning the spot, and they had to replace him with an average player. 

 

For where we are, average is still enough to get in the rotation and contribute. 

It turns out Aldon Smith was struggling with a shoulder injury too

[BOTT]

I forgot I am supposed to blindly be a homer and drool at every little player Grigs signs because he is the GM and never makes a bad decision...Thank you for showing me the error of my own free will thinking ways of judging what I see with my own eyes

....unfortunately, those eyes told you Mike McGlynn should be moved to tackle.

[BOTT]

Quite an expensive insurance plan, I may add.

Irsay prob payed 2m for a Hendrix guitar pick

[BrentMc11]

I think Walden is more of an insurance plan in case Jerry Hughes doesn't work out. I think this is Grigs telling Hughes to earn his keep or lose it.

I am smiling as I write this....must be Geico......  Nice insurance contract....I think both will play that side...I love it!!!  This is going to be a competitive camp...

[Slick_Rick]

Quite an expensive insurance plan, I may add.

Potentially, but from what I've heard, only 4 mil is guaranteed. Who knows, I'm just trying to see logic in it. That's why I'm not a GM, or Owner I suppose.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

I am smiling as I write this....must be Geico......  Nice insurance contract....I think both will play that side...I love it!!!  This is going to be a competitive camp...

 

So easy even a Caveman can do it .