The weather DID bother Peyton

[BrentMc11]

Sorry guys, I did not mean to quote the entire post for one sentence.....trying to remedy it as we write

[alawai]

I got air-dropped over Afghasistan and saluted the best soldiers in the world...no time for cashews...What's for dinner

lol! MRE's and leftovers with a slice of humble pie!

[BrentMc11]

lol! MRE's and leftovers with a slice of humble pie!

YUUUUM YUMMMM!  

[bayone]

as the game went on...Joe Flacco's firing bombs and Peyton Manning's throws were not strong...

That's why they were so conservative at the end...

the OT interception was a weak, weak throw....If he gets it over the defender....Stokley is open and the safety wasnt there..

......He looked unconfortable all second half and the Ravens played the old Indy Cover 2

and dared him to throw darts...

Meanwhile Flacco's throwing the ball 40-50 yards downfield...

Got to admit....Broncos blew it

 

agree

 

Peyton led 24-21 vs 2007 Chargers in the 4th qtr.

 

Peyton led 17-14 vs 2008 Chargers in the 4th qtr.

 

Peyton led 17-16 vs 2009 Saints in the 4th qtr.

 

Peyton led 16-14 with about 53 seconds in the 4th qtr. to go in the 2010 Jets playoff game.

 

Peyton led 35-28 with about 40 seconds to go in the 4th qtr. in the 2012 Broncos playoff game

 

Man, the last 5 losses for Peyton have come with 4th qtr. leads for his team. I dont know if it is a co-incidence but that is definitely not Luck (pun intended ).

 

amazing stat

 

What in blazes were people watching where both teams had a rough time from the officiating? Baltimore was given not one, not two, not three, but FOUR horrible calls where all but one ultimately extended the game past regulation. Every single one baffled the announcing crew.

 

Forget all the massive holding by both lines all night long. (Also a large part why the pass rush for Denver was non existent)

 

 

What did the Broncos benefit from anywhere NEAR the magnitude of:

 

1: Pick Six/ Illegal Contact. Led directly to TD.

2: Fumble/ No Brady rule. Led to 6.

3: "PI" on Bailey. Led to 6.

4: Incomplete catch that was ruled a catch. I think the Ravens wound up punting.

 

 

Seriously. Name one. The Stokely catch that was clearly a catch? The spotting of the ball on fourth and 1 where the ball was buried under the pile and you'd need Superman's X-ray vision to overturn it? Illegal hands to the face? There were two flags on the play. One wasn't legit, ONE WAS.

 

Teams can overcome a bad call or two. It happens most games, and usually is split between teams. Denver had enough to overcome with Moreno going out limiting their pass protection/run game, offensive penalties to kill drives, a QB who struggled on some of his throws with the cold, a kicker who kicks the dirt and not the ball, and Bailey getting schooled all night long.

 

Thanks to some return TD's, Holiday's effort should have been enough to overcome the mass amount of fail going on.

That wasn't enough, though. Denver had to overcome its own shortcomings, the Ravens, AND being jobbed four times. Denver was only able to overcome one of them. (The incomplete yet somehow complete pass)

 

I've seen horrible cases of officiating like the Polamalu INT that was overturned in 2005, but that was ONE blown call. This was FOUR. There was the first SEA/GB game this season that had a game ending INT ruled a TD. There was the tuck rule in 2001, but that was ONE horrible call and at least it's in the rulebook. Apparently there's a double standard there.

 

The Broncos probably couldn't beat NE since their TE's are 2/3 of the best in football and Denver's D can't stop TE's for dung. However, they still got robbed of an AFC title game in spite of their shortcomings. Did Denver deserve to win the Superbowl with their level of play? Hell no. However, Denver sure didn't deserve to have tickets to the AFC title game taken out of their hands four times in a putrid display of heavily favored officiating that made Walt Coleman, Ron Winter, and every replacement ref look like Mike Carey.

 

agree , they have problems ith TE's all season & agree on your other pints, I made a comment atr end then decided after reviewing the entir epsot tro make multiqotes instead 

 

U have said it betterr than my comment as end

 

Excellent write-up Moose!  Love your points on officiating...it sure was both sides BAD!

agreed

 

  im a sure as    game extended the hand got colder & possibly numb &  grip  & passing more difficult to grip, to bad ,

Peyton  avoidance of throwing deep or zippy as in first half showed

 

U can state many reasons,Broncos lost

 

Mayby Moreno would of picked up the last icing firtst dwm, his injury  hurt * peyton missed his drive & allthough hillman played well he surely couldn't block & protection abilty was no wear as good as normal in passing situations

 

If Prater actually hit the ball in the FG attempt but if I am not wrong he hit the ground before the ball

 

The D should have been able at end of each half to make sure someone was deep on right side for help as thats where flacco throws more, I believe he did same in Colts game & announcers noted it, Bailey  was not bailey after boasting he would stop thes dep plays before the game and shut dwn the recxiver he was covering, He was to overconfident obvioulsy

 

some calls I didnt like but thats part of the game

 

Broncos more penalties the Ravens

 

ALL told told save for Holiday  it was quite a sloppy game

 

It is what it is , one must accept it & move on just like when he was with the colts & also just like with the colts loss as well of course, both sting

 

I am so sick  medically andf watching that game didnt help me feel better with that ending

 

Tommorow another battrery of tests , only been ill every Sat to thursday now for over a month

 

as both Colts and Broncos lost , I must concentration now on me & moms issues even more so probably wont post much

 

Maybe during the daft draft, & free agenvy time, heres u hoping with all the cap space Colts can make some great moves, Colts look like they can become a power houuse

I thank my u all for being my friend , now back to bed

 

Barry

[Horseshoe]

Manning was overrated this year. He wasnt his usual self, but took advantage of a weak schedule.

[Snowglobe]

I think his arm was bothered by the weather. Even if no one is open down field, you see QBs like Rodgers, Brees, Brady and even Manning this season chuck one down field. They know it's going to be incomplete but it makes the safeties aware that the QB isn't afraid to go vertical. In return, the safeties may play a little deeper than usual. The problem was, Manning didn't take a single shot down field so the safeties weren't afraid of the deep ball. As the game went on, the defense got more aggressive because they hadn't been tested with the deep ball.

 

I don't have any evidence but I think maybe Fox told him to take a knee at the end of the 4th because they knew the arm wasn't 100%. There is no way in hell the Peyton Manning I know (1998-2010) is going to take a knee with 2 time outs and 31 seconds.  Defenses do stupid things under pressure (like the huge bomb to tie the game). 

 

We all know the cold weather was affecting his nerves (hence the glove) but to what extent is the question. His accuracy was beautiful at times (both TDs) and poor at other times. He looked like he was on fire the first two quarters but in the 3rd and 4th didn't look quite the same. Just my perspective. 

[ViriLudant]

The fumble was a fumble. It wasn't a Tuck Rule play, for one simple reason: at one point during that arm movement, Peyton put two hands on the ball.

The moment that happened, Tuck Rule was not possible.

Here's a quote from FOX:

From the NFL Rule Book: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble. "I agree with Vinovich," FOX Sports analyst and former NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira said on Twitter . "Tuck rule states that if player loses possession after he tucks the ball back into his body it's a fumble. Remember it was called a fumble on the field and there was not enough to reverse it. The key was that [Manning] got it all the way back to his body before it was knocked out."

[RGIII]

Have to disagree, Bailey was right with the receiver both times.

Just was last 1/2 second adjustments to the ball that made the play. IMO

An interesting part of Flacco having the arm strength and GIFT to throwing a HIGH and Accurate ball.

Those were fabulous throws that combined with the receivers Elite speed, gave the receiver a Useful advantage.

Andrew throws a ball that gets up there some. ;) One reason a bigger bodied receiver (than a Smurf) would be nice in our future. You know 6'1" - 6'3". 210 -215 lbs. I look forward to that.

 

I wouldn't say that Flacco has much of a gift.  He's really not that accurate on those throws most of the time but he seems to attempt them more than most QBs and occasionally he'll find a wide open man downfield or gets bailed out by his receiver.

 

Gotta give a TON of credit to Torrey Smith for his TD grabs and Moore just plain screwed up the relatively easily defensible bomb to Jones.

[Jay Kirk]

Excellent write-up Moose!  Love your points on officiating...it sure was both sides BAD!

I said as much earlier in the thread,its been that way all year,unfortinate,not much better than the replacement   not saying they cost anyone the game,but bad calls   sure swing momentum,IMO they need to get it under control before next season.All i want is consistency ,and not consistently bad

[Synthetic]

The Broncos probably couldn't beat NE since their TE's are 2/3 of the best in football and Denver's D can't stop TE's for dung. However, they still got robbed of an AFC title game in spite of their shortcomings. Did Denver deserve to win the Superbowl with their level of play? Hell no. However, Denver sure didn't deserve to have tickets to the AFC title game taken out of their hands four times in a putrid display of heavily favored officiating that made Walt Coleman, Ron Winter, and every replacement ref look like Mike Carey.

 

 

Totally agree here and I said it all year and people called me crazy, but the Broncos matched up horribly against TE's. NE probably would have shredded them to pieces. We seen what happened to them earlier this year, while everyone was screaming "but but but they came back!". NE was up 31-7 in that game, it was well over by then.

[grmasterb]

If we really are seeing a diminished Peyton, I really have to wonder if Denver will pay him the $40 million bonus.

[braveheartcolt]

people who know nothing about football comment I see.. The Ravens were playing 2 deep zone or man help all night forcing Manning to check to medium pass routes.If you watched the game you saw he still had plenty of zip on the ball.

 

The problem is just like in Indy, defence can't hold a lead when he(Manning drives the field for the winning score). Just like Indy the Broncos defence failed him..

 

Also on a side note, the Broncos defence was ranked #3 but still gave up 38 points.

 

"people who know nothing about football comment I see"

 

 Was this a comment, Funky?

[Fx Stryker]

Peyton put two hands on the ball.

The moment that happened, Tuck Rule was not possible.

 

So like Brady did?

[Nadine]

some personal argument and otherwise insulting and inflammatory posts were removed from this thread.

Please,NO insulting, or personal shot posts in the forums.

If it continues we'll need to start issuing warnings.  But all you guys know better so for now, chalking it up to heat of the moment

 

So SIMMER DAH NAH!

[swflacoltsfans]

If Denver did what they should have done and put the game away with 30 seconds left. There would be no discussion of Peyton being old, can't play in the cold and makes bad decisions. It is that simple.

[Snowglobe]

So like Brady did?

 

No. Brady did not fumble with 2 hands on the ball. The minute Manning had his 2nd hand on the ball in the groin area, that negated the tuck rule. It's a tacky rule and I personally don't like it but Brady and Manning were in different situations.

 

[Fx Stryker]

No. Brady did not fumble with 2 hands on the ball. 

 

 

So Brady throws with his left hand then? How can you say his left hand is not on the ball?

[jvan1973]

No. Brady did not fumble with 2 hands on the ball. The minute Manning had his 2nd hand on the ball in the groin area, that negated the tuck rule. It's a tacky rule and I personally don't like it but Brady and Manning were in different situations.

He had his left hand on the ball as well

[Snowglobe]

 

So Brady throws with his left hand then? How can you say his left hand is not on the ball?

 

 

He had his left hand on the ball as well

 

 

If you watch the video in slow motion, the defender hits his arm and that forces the ball to touch his other hand. It was literally right before Tom was going to pump it.

[jvan1973]

If you watch the video in slow motion, the defender hits his arm and that forces the ball to touch his other hand. It was literally right before Tom was going to pump it.

He still touched it with his left hand

[Snowglobe]

Video in question at 1:30

 

The defender forces his arm basically at the split second he pumps

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHEQtASq9BI

[Snowglobe]

He still touched it with his left hand

 

In Mannings case, the defender hit his arm but Manning regained control at his groin then fumbled it. Had Manning fumbled it at the release point, it's not even the tuck rule, it's a forward pass = no fumble.

[Fx Stryker]

If you watch the video in slow motion, the defender hits his arm and that forces the ball to touch his other hand. It was literally right before Tom was going to pump it.

 

I've seen it a million times. I'm not going to argue this. He has two hands on the ball. /my partaking in this discdussion

[Snowglobe]

I've seen it a million times. I'm not going to argue this. He has two hands on the ball. /my partaking in this discdussion

 

[ViriLudant]

So like Brady did?

He did? I'll have to go back and look, but I recall Brady pumping, put his 2nd hand in the ball, pumped again, then tucked.

[ViriLudant]

He still touched it with his left hand

Seriously? You clearly don't understand the rule.

He didn't use that second hand to control the ball.

[Snowglobe]

Seriously? You clearly don't understand the rule.

He didn't use that second hand to control the ball.

 

Exactly and the only reason it hit his 2nd hand was because a defender forced it to touch his 2nd hand by hitting his arm

 

[Tsarquise]

He did? I'll have to go back and look, but I recall Brady pumping, put his 2nd hand in the ball, pumped again, then tucked.

I agree. That was a fumble.he pump faked, held the ball, then fumbled.

[ColtJ82]

Cold takes its toll on older players.  Champ Bailey took his licks....Ray Lewis was slow to the ball.  The Ravens had the cold and the thin air and pulled it out.

 

I think running out the clock and not giving Prater a chance was Iceberg on the cake....err icing....The Broncos froze their own chances to win....and Peyton made a poor decision when not throwing well late.

 

Maybe Fox recognized that Peyton's arm was dead and that is why he had him take a knee. He might have known that Peyton was likely to float one out there and get picked off and the Ravens would already be in range.

 

Only quoted you because I didn't think of this until reading your post.  Would make sense.

[Fx Stryker]

The fumble was a fumble. It wasn't a Tuck Rule play, for one simple reason: at one point during that arm movement, Peyton put two hands on the ball.

The moment that happened, Tuck Rule was not possible.

Here's a quote from FOX:

From the NFL Rule Book: NFL Rule 3, Section 22, Article 2, Note 2. When [an offensive] player is holding the ball to pass it forward, any intentional forward movement of his arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body. Also, if the player has tucked the ball into his body and then loses possession, it is a fumble. "I agree with Vinovich," FOX Sports analyst and former NFL VP of Officiating Mike Pereira said on Twitter . "Tuck rule states that if player loses possession after he tucks the ball back into his body it's a fumble. Remember it was called a fumble on the field and there was not enough to reverse it. The key was that [Manning] got it all the way back to his body before it was knocked out."

 

I'm just going to add one more thing. Peyton lost control before he touched it with both hands. When he pulls up you can see it slip out of his hands. Thus being the tuck rule.

 

 

I wish my laptop could get a higher quality to make it clearer.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000125434/Peyton-Manning-fumble

 

At :45 you can see. Watch it a few times over, and you can clearly see the ball slip out of his hand.

[GoPats]

people who know nothing about football comment I see..

 

Oh how I love it when posters throw this kind of comment around...

 

You're right about the Ravens playing a lot of two-deep zone... you can deliver that information in a non-condescending way, you know. Maybe just a general statement next time. News flash, but if you deliberately insult others, odds are good they won't come around to your way of thinking. ;)

 

But most people who are watching Manning this season are seeing less zip on his passes. It is what it is. Not only is he getting up there in years, he's coming off that injury. There's no shame in it.

[Snowglobe]

I'm just going to add one more thing. Peyton lost control before he touched it with both hands. When he pulls up you can see it slip out of his hands. Thus being the tuck rule.

 

 

I wish my laptop could get a higher quality to make it clearer.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/auto/0ap2000000125434/Peyton-Manning-fumble

 

At :45 you can see. Watch it a few times over, and you can clearly see the ball slip out of his hand.

 

Watch from 1:00-1:01. He sort of regains possession and it's knocked out a 2nd time by a defender. I believe that is what negated the tuck rule. Stupid rule IMO but from what Mike Pereira said, that was the reason it wasn't a tuck. The 2nd hand trying to regain possession. 

[GrizzColt]

Has anyone ever spotted Bill B. at the Crossroads?  Somebody will get this.

[jvan1973]

Has anyone ever spotted Bill B. at the Crossroads? Somebody will get this.

We have a poster here who's screen name is Robert Johnson..

[Fx Stryker]

Watch from 1:00-1:01. He sort of regains possession and it's knocked out a 2nd time by a defender. I believe that is what negated the tuck rule. Stupid rule IMO but from what Mike Pereira said, that was the reason it wasn't a tuck. The 2nd hand trying to regain possession. 

 

He sort of gains control? No there is no grey areas in football. You have it or you don't, and he didn't.

[JoKeR]

Maybe we're prisoners of the moment and forgetting it was negative 2 degrees. Manning's arm wasn't at 110% strength all season but it was very good.

[tfunky14]

well I'm sitting here watching the replay of the game Saturday night and to me Manning looks fine, quick release, on target and with zip.and touch.

[dw49]

I was reading that PM was going to work on throwing the ball better in cold weather. Mentioned that he tried practicing while "icing " his hand but said it didn't help him much. He then mentioned the SB being in NYC next year , so he will keep working on it. Strange that cold weather would be that much of an issue (as to how to adapt or play in it ) to someone in the league this many years. I would tend to think that besides a glove , which he wore , it's pretty much "you can or you can't" but leave it to PM to keep working to improve.....I guess.

[Jules]

Next years Super Bowl is in Jersey. So it isn't looking good already for Denver next year.

[Yehoodi]

He had his left hand on the ball as well

he did not have his hand on the ball . . . unlike Peyton, who not only had his left hand on the ball, but he clamped his left hand onto the ball, you can clearly see his fingers hit the ball and spread out around the ball, this happens just before the ball is dislodged . . .

I have always said that had brady grabbed the ball with his left hand, which he was planning to do, and which Peyton accomplished, it would be a fumble . . . indeed, had woodson gotten to brady a little later (and the refs still missed the blow to the head), than it would be a fumble . . . and it only needed to be about 0.10 or less of second, which is a difference of one and done for TB in 2001 and a SB (btw this 0.10 of second it what i always reference in the lady luck table in my poster earilier in this thread, post 108 paragraph 4), but he did not and TB was just nearing the end of his pump fake when he was hit . . . and a pump fake is within the forward pass point . . .

bottom line, like i have said 1000s times on the internet, the tuck rule is simply the forward pass rule and deals with the start and end point of a foward pass and more specifically when the pass starts (QB goes from a runner to passer) and when it ends (QB going from a passer to runner), with the former being the point when a loose balls goes from fumble to incomplete pass and the later when it reverts back to runner from being a passer and thus fumble again . . . outside of these two delination lines the ball coming out is a fumble, within these two lines the ball coming out is a pass and thus is incomplete if it hits the ground . . .

Had manning not grabbed the ball and the ball fell out of his hands it would of been an incomplete pass . . . this happened to a QB last year or two (it was either Romo or Sanchez but i think it was romo), but it was exactly the same as manning, romo stepped up in a collapsing pocket, turtled as the started his arm forward, ducked his head and basically spiked the ball as his feet, with no eligible teamamte in the area . . . as his second hand did not touch the ball and he did not bring it near his body, the spike was an incomplete pass and was also not grounding as he was hit . . . i think romo did this intentionally to avoid a fumble and/or sack

the problem with manning was that human instinct took over, the ball was coming loose and he aborted the pass and tried to corral the ball by bringing it into his body and brining his left hand to try to secure the ball . . . which is a natural move . . . he brought the ball to his crutch area, grabbed it with his left hand . . at this point it was tuck, its no longer a passer and then thus the pass is over, a subsequent lost ball, even a 0.10 second later, is a fumble . ..

the tuck rule is a sequental rule and is black and white as the nfl wishes to have things and rules which are unbias, do not require judgement on intent, and go by a step by step process . . .

The difference with the romo incomplete pass is that he never touched it with his left hand

the difference with the brady incomplete pass is that he did not grabd the ball with his left hand, he may of at best touch it with a finger but did not grab it . . . and also he was slowing down his pump fake when he was hit, so the ball was still in that pump fake zone, which is another indication that it has not gotten to a tuck point . . . as opposed to one trying to pull it into his body, which is different motion than a pump fake . . .

also Big Ben has had at least two fumbles involving the tuck rule . . . one against SF last year in which he went pass the pump fake, did not touch it though with the second hand, and had the ball curled around and pointing at his own endzone and near his side but not against it, and lost it and it was a fumble . . . and against Cinn, i believe is was, this year, he did a fwe pump fakes and after them with the ball near his chest the lose of ball was a fumble . . .

whether you like is or not, but a QB corralling the ball to his gut/crutch area and then placing his non throwing hand on the ball and with same getting contact with all five fingers is a tuck point . . . and just like all of the other nfl rules, like the ball crossing the plane of the endzone or a players knee down, or a player being out of bounds, the instant that event happens, it happens, so the instant the tuck happens, the QB is runner subject to a fumble . . .

what is sad in all of this, had Peyton simple let the ball come out of his hand it would of been an incomplete pass . . . well actually this is same exception here too, and it involves Big Ben again, had the ball started to come loose from his hand the moment his hand is going forward and he does not regain possession and it comes out, its a fumble . . . its not the empty hand fumble as the ball is still in the QBs hand but it is loose . . . with Big ben, it was this year, i think the ravens, or it might of been agianst the broncos, but as ben brought his arm forward, the defender hit his arm and the ball was jarred just enough to see it on HD, then as ben's hand came forward is started to move more and he squeezed his hand to grabbed the ball and it popped out and was deemed a fumble because he never started the forward motion with control of the ball . . (and thus did not convert from a runner to a passer) . . . now i could not see this clearly, but it might of happened with peyton, if ball started to move as he started the forward arm motion, he like big ben against his own team in week 1, never had forward motion combined with control, and therefore can not be deemed to have started a forward pass . . .

so really there are two reason which it could be a fumble, PM never started the forward pass and two, even if he did, he accomplished the tuck point prior to the ball being dislodged . . .