What would you want from Denver to switch picks?

[Superman]

If you're giving McCaffrey 20 carries a game, you're doing it wrong.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

Who told you he wasn't?  He carried 30 times  at many different points of his career.   He was their main RB.   I'd be making that 20 carry  argument about Kamara.

 

Why? Kamara was behind Hurd, who many pegged as a top 10 pick before last season. And Dobbs carried it 10+ per game as well. I am not sure what evidence there is to suggest that Kamara can't tote it 20 times a game. I also don't expect the Colts to have a RB do that very often either.

[dgambill]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I would do it for two third rounders. I'm going down to #20, and I get back #82 and #101? Yes. According to the value chart, I'm coming out ahead by 80 points.

 

Realistically, Denver would maybe offer #82 and #126. I'm still coming out ahead 26 points, and I only have to move down 5 spots. Depending on how the board looks, I'm okay with that. Let's say five of Barnett, Charlton, Reddick, Foster, Humphrey, Harris, White, are available, and I know the Broncos want McCaffrey, I'm still getting a really good prospect at #20.

I would too....except in your scenario. Barnett and Foster are too good to pass up for me...they likely aren't there when we pick again. I'd rather keep our picks and just be smart. You know I've mentioned this trade scenario several times in the last couple months so I'm very happy to move back to 20 (probably not later unless we land a haul) because I think 20 is about the tipping point of first rd talent in this draft. If I moved back and could still target Reddick or Humphrey or Harris or Lamp I'm ok with the move. That extra 3rd..is where I think the sweet spot for a quality back is in this draft...a guy like Foreman could be there but there are some nice other backs that could help us and if we could land a back and say a defender in rd 3....be pretty nice for us. Really been hoping to get a corner in rd 2 and 4 to go with edge/backer in first and rb in 3rd. Who knows how it plays out...but I can't pass on a couple those guys you mentioned...just can't for what someone I don't know who will be there later...but the premise of a trade partner like Denver that could net us an extra 3rd would help us a lot!

[dgambill]

19 minutes ago, Superman said:

If you're giving McCaffrey 20 carries a game, you're doing it wrong.

Yeah...20 touches a game and 20 carries are two different things.....could you imagine a combo of McCaffery and Foreman? I'm very focused on defense but I was thinking what the perfect scenario for our backfield would look like and that's what I saw lol.....but that was before Foreman ripped off the 4.45 and ruined my 5th rd prospect and McCaffery shot up out of the 2nd rd.

[Superman]

Just now, dgambill said:

Yeah...20 touches a game and 20 carries are two different things.....could you imagine a combo of McCaffery and Foreman? I'm very focused on defense but I was thinking what the perfect scenario for our backfield would look like and that's what I saw lol.....but that was before Foreman ripped off the 4.45 and ruined my 5th rd prospect and McCaffery shot up out of the 2nd rd.

 

Yeah, you can get him 20 touches, but that's still probably a little high. 

 

I don't think Foreman's 40 is going to move his draft stock all that much, but I didn't have him as a 5th rounder.

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, dgambill said:

I would too....except in your scenario. Barnett and Foster are too good to pass up for me...they likely aren't there when we pick again. I'd rather keep our picks and just be smart. You know I've mentioned this trade scenario several times in the last couple months so I'm very happy to move back to 20 (probably not later unless we land a haul) because I think 20 is about the tipping point of first rd talent in this draft. If I moved back and could still target Reddick or Humphrey or Harris or Lamp I'm ok with the move. That extra 3rd..is where I think the sweet spot for a quality back is in this draft...a guy like Foreman could be there but there are some nice other backs that could help us and if we could land a back and say a defender in rd 3....be pretty nice for us. Really been hoping to get a corner in rd 2 and 4 to go with edge/backer in first and rb in 3rd. Who knows how it plays out...but I can't pass on a couple those guys you mentioned...just can't for what someone I don't know who will be there later...but the premise of a trade partner like Denver that could net us an extra 3rd would help us a lot!

 

I didn't even include the OL options, but they would be in play as well. 

 

I believe that the more picks you have in the top 100, the better, even if you're moving down a few spots in the first. The more swings you have, the more likely you are to get Pro Bowl caliber players. So based on what I think the board could look like when we're on the clock, I think I'm fine with moving down, almost regardless of who's still available. Being realistic, Foster and Barnett go before #15, but there should still be a cluster of 7-8 guys that would be good picks for us.

 

If Denver called about swapping and was willing to give up #82 and #126, I would find it hard to turn that down.

[dgambill]

18 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Yeah, you can get him 20 touches, but that's still probably a little high. 

 

I don't think Foreman's 40 is going to move his draft stock all that much, but I didn't have him as a 5th rounder.

Yeah. It was right after the college season and I thought McCaffery kind of had a down year and I wasn't sure he was a 1st rounder (wishful) and Foreman I just had so many backs ahead of him because I didn't think he could be on the field on 3rd down...so that pushed him down further. I expect him a late 3rd rd back still. I think his 3 cone and 40 do help push him up a round from where he was sitting. I don't think he ran the 40 at the combine so I think he had a lot of question marks still....but I may have him mixed up with someone else. Everything is starting to swirl together at this point. Draft just needs to get here.

 

Oh and McCaffery...yeah I use him like Dvonte Freeman...run him, use him in screens and wheel routes...heck on 3rd down I line him up in the slot or maybe motion him outside if a LB gets on him. I'd run him 10-12 times a game and get him 5-6 passes in most games. And you have to have him returning punts for another 3-4 touches. He is a matchup nightmare....he shouldn't have to come off the field much even when he isn't running the ball...in the right offense he should be getting exploited....of course we don't run that type of offense as we never do that with TY or Dorsett so I wouldn't have a lot of faith we would utilize him to his full potential.

[dgambill]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I didn't even include the OL options, but they would be in play as well. 

 

I believe that the more picks you have in the top 100, the better, even if you're moving down a few spots in the first. The more swings you have, the more likely you are to get Pro Bowl caliber players. So based on what I think the board could look like when we're on the clock, I think I'm fine with moving down, almost regardless of who's still available. Being realistic, Foster and Barnett go before #15, but there should still be a cluster of 7-8 guys that would be good picks for us.

 

If Denver called about swapping and was willing to give up #82 and #126, I would find it hard to turn that down.

Yeah and CB would too I believe....I mean its exactly what he has been talking about all along. We have multiple needs even at the same positions right now (corner and lb) because we have very little quality depth. He couldn't pass up the opportunity to bolster our bench and starters with whom we might get. That said those two I was mentioning...they seem to be pretty sure fire upgrades over whom is behind them in the draft and instant starters for us likely. We still have 6 more picks after the first that fall in the first 5 rds....we will get some good swings at this draft.

[Valpo2004]

15 hours ago, buccolts said:

If they're worried about the Colts, they'll try to jump them, not trade with them. Otherwise they'd need to overpay. 

 

Not necessarily . . . if the Colts arn't too in love with him but just regard him as the BPA at the time, then they could get a solid deal to trade back.

 

 

[krunk]

32 minutes ago, dgambill said:

Yeah. It was right after the college season and I thought McCaffery kind of had a down year and I wasn't sure he was a 1st rounder (wishful) and Foreman I just had so many backs ahead of him because I didn't think he could be on the field on 3rd down...so that pushed him down further. I expect him a late 3rd rd back still. I think his 3 cone and 40 do help push him up a round from where he was sitting. I don't think he ran the 40 at the combine so I think he had a lot of question marks still....but I may have him mixed up with someone else. Everything is starting to swirl together at this point. Draft just needs to get here.

 

Oh and McCaffery...yeah I use him like Dvonte Freeman...run him, use him in screens and wheel routes...heck on 3rd down I line him up in the slot or maybe motion him outside if a LB gets on him. I'd run him 10-12 times a game and get him 5-6 passes in most games. And you have to have him returning punts for another 3-4 touches. He is a matchup nightmare....he shouldn't have to come off the field much even when he isn't running the ball...in the right offense he should be getting exploited....of course we don't run that type of offense as we never do that with TY or Dorsett so I wouldn't have a lot of faith we would utilize him to his full potential.

That's another reason I think the Colts possibly are considering Mccafrey.  They are trying to mold themselves like the Falcons in many ways.  Freeman and Mccafrey are similar.  I think they want somebody similar to Freeman so I'm sure Mccafrey, Cook, and Kamara are on the list.

[krunk]

58 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

Why? Kamara was behind Hurd, who many pegged as a top 10 pick before last season. And Dobbs carried it 10+ per game as well. I am not sure what evidence there is to suggest that Kamara can't tote it 20 times a game. I also don't expect the Colts to have a RB do that very often either.

My point is there is more reason to be questioning whether or not Kamara can handle a lot of carries.  There's even less evidence in his case than Mccafrey.   Not to say he can't, but if you want to make an argument there's room for it.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

That's another reason I think the Colts possibly are considering Mccafrey.  They are trying to mold themselves like the Falcons in many ways.  Freeman and Mccafrey are similar.  I think they want somebody similar to Freeman so I'm sure Mccafrey, Cook, and Kamara are on the list.

 

Freeman was a 4th rounder. If they're trying that hard to follow the Atlanta blueprint, they won't be taking McCaffrey in the 1st. 

 

At a base level, I think the point is they want to get fast on defense, not that they want to copy everything the Falcons did.

[Dark Superman]

Colts aren't drafting McCaffrey.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Freeman was a 4th rounder. If they're trying that hard to follow the Atlanta blueprint, they won't be taking McCaffrey in the 1st. 

 

At a base level, I think the point is they want to get fast on defense, not that they want to copy everything the Falcons did.

I'm talking about skill set.   There's not a whole lot of backs out there like Devante Freeman.    Mccafrey is  most similar,  maybe Mixon but we all know we are not picking Joe.

[KB]

5 minutes ago, Rick_Grimes said:

Colts aren't drafting McCaffrey.

I can only read your posts in Rick's voice, and for this I thank you.

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Freeman was a 4th rounder. If they're trying that hard to follow the Atlanta blueprint, they won't be taking McCaffrey in the 1st. 

 

At a base level, I think the point is they want to get fast on defense, not that they want to copy everything the Falcons did.

It's pretty obvious to me they aren't itching that bad to be like the Falcons to force a pick of Mccafrey just to do that.   But I can see why they'd be interested because he fits.

[Superman]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

I'm talking about skill set.   There's not a whole lot of backs out there like Devante Freeman.    Mccafrey is  most similar,  maybe Mixon but we all know we are not picking Joe.

 

There's also Cook, and I think there are a couple other backs with the skill set. Maybe not as dynamic, but still fit the mold. I don't think you have to take one of these first round guys to get this kind of back. 

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's also Cook, and I think there are a couple other backs with the skill set. Maybe not as dynamic, but still fit the mold. I don't think you have to take one of these first round guys to get this kind of back. 

I don't think you have to take a back in the first round and it's not my preference, but the majority of the guys with that specific skill set  this year are in the first and second round.   I don't really see many others that are close.   Maybe somebody like Marlon Mack, but even he is a bit different.   Who do you feel has that same agility and receiving skills outside of Cook, Mixon, Mccafrey, Kamara?

[chad72]

Elway did it before, giving up a 1st and 3rd to get Shane Ray. So, he would be fine giving up a 1st and 3rd to get McAffrey if he wanted him badly but somehow I doubt it.

 

However, with TE and OL also at the list of options at 20 for the Broncos, Howard, Njoku, Lamp, Ramczyk are all possibilities that Elway could be staring at without giving up picks. Hence I am not certain he would do that if at least 2 of the above are still available at 15. I would basically look at their key needs and how many first round rated players intersecting need would be available around the range that they pick. I feel the Broncos would have way more options than we think.

 

QB, pass defense are all cases I can see a team moving up and giving picks up for. RB, I doubt it in the current NFL, Mike Ditka is nowhere to be found amongst the list of GMs.  

[OffensivelyPC]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think you have to take a back in the first round and it's not my preference, but the majority of the guys with that specific skill set  this year are in the first and second round.   I don't really see many others that are close.   Maybe somebody like Marlon Mack, but even he is a bit different.   Who do you feel has that same agility and receiving skills outside of Cook, Mixon, Mccafrey, Kamara?

I would say Kareem Hunt may be on that list.  He's not as quick as a scat back normally would be, but he's got really good receiving skills.  PFF Gave him an 85 rating in that area.  Elijah McGuire is another guy who has plus quickness and acceleration and good catching skills.  Not a strong blocker and cbs and nfl.com are at odds about his toughness (I thought he flashed, but generally didn't show a lot of physicality IMO).  He also could stand to read his blocks better.

[krunk]

17 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I would say Kareem Hunt may be on that list.  He's not as quick as a scat back normally would be, but he's got really good receiving skills.  PFF Gave him an 85 rating in that area.  Elijah McGuire is another guy who has plus quickness and acceleration and good catching skills.  Not a strong blocker and cbs and nfl.com are at odds about his toughness (I thought he flashed, but generally didn't show a lot of physicality IMO).  He also could stand to read his blocks better.

I like Kareem and Elijah but I don't think either one is what you get with those 1-2 round backs in this years draft.  Elijah is the closest to having that skill set though. Wouldn't surprise me if he went undrafted, but he can play.   I just don't think  there's a whole lot of guys available that are similar to Freeman other than the guys I mentioned in this years draft.

[OffensivelyPC]

17 minutes ago, krunk said:

I like Kareem and Elijah but I don't think either one is what you get with those 1-2 round backs in this years draft.  Elijah is the closest to having that skill set though. Wouldn't surprise me if he went undrafted, but he can play.   I just don't think  there's a whole lot of guys available that are similar to Freeman other than the guys I mentioned in this years draft.

I should've clarified that I thought those weren't 1st/2nd round guys.  But yeah, I agree.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I would be cool with that I want there 1 and a 2nd or 3rd rd pick that and you we move back 5 spots, and they can have MaCafrey. WINN

[FalseStart]

3rd Rounder...done deal. With our FA acquisition depth...go for great players...trade up attack the draft. Might see if we can move Dorsett for another 3rd rounder as well...

 

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[GoColts00]

I would trade #15 & #121 for Denver's #20,#82,#101.

 

That would be our 1st Rd + first 4th Rd pick for their 1st Rd + Both 3rd Rd picks.

 

We would have a 1st, 2nd, Two 3rd Rd, Two 4th Rd and a 5th. Thats 7 picks still. We've moved down 5 spots & up 20 spots.

[GoColts00]

^^^ that would actually be a 1st, 2nd, Three 3Rd picks, Two 4th Rd and a 5th. A total of 8 picks in 5 rounds.

[Hoose]

Colts will not draft a RB in the first round. The value for other positions is far higher, especially at LB and CB. Which is a massive position of need at the moment for them. And Denver can get McCaffrey with their 20th pick if that is who they truly want. Give up the dream of trading the first pick and focus on the best pick for the Colts at #15, because they are highly unlikely to want to trade it and unlikely to find a willing partner with the depth of this draft. 

[BR-549]

Any chance we get the Colorado Rocky Mountains moved to the Ohio Valley for the 15th?  

I like the mountains.... John Elway not so much.  I would make it hard on him to get what he wants- it needs to be very advantageous to the Colts (AFC/ AFC trade)

[oldunclemark]

7 hours ago, GoColts00 said:

I would trade #15 & #121 for Denver's #20,#82,#101.

 

That would be our 1st Rd + first 4th Rd pick for their 1st Rd + Both 3rd Rd picks.

 

We would have a 1st, 2nd, Two 3rd Rd, Two 4th Rd and a 5th. Thats 7 picks still. We've moved down 5 spots & up 20 spots.

Listen to GoC....!!!

 

They don't want somebody like Tampa to get him....at #19

If the first 14 teams don't pick McCaffrey..I'd call Elway with EXACTLY the offer GoC  is laying out here...

...and I think Denver would jump on it

[jvan1973]

11 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Listen to GoC....!!!

 

They don't want somebody like Tampa to get him....at #19

If the first 14 teams don't pick McCaffrey..I'd call Elway with EXACTLY the offer GoC  is laying out here...

...and I think Denver would jump on it

If the colts make the call,  the Broncos don't really want to move up

[James]

If they are stupid enough to believe the Colts would draft him in the 1st round then by all means let rip them off. Multiple picks in return.

[themacs@feathersnfins.net]

What Part Of Defense Are Y`All Having Trouble Grasping... Going Defense On First Round Jeeez...

[oldunclemark]

53 minutes ago, James said:

If they are stupid enough to believe the Colts would draft him in the 1st round then by all means let rip them off. Multiple picks in return.

Think on this...

The Colts could draft McCaffrey and then trade him to Denver..

It keeps pickers 16 thru 19 from getting him...

 

Y'all never saw 'Draft Day'?

[oldunclemark]

7 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

If the colts make the call,  the Broncos don't really want to move up

Then you've lost the price of the call......hey, call collect

McCaffrey is more valuable to Denver than he is to anyone else......

He not only fills 3 roles (3rd down back, KR and slot receiver) fro them, he's a legacy player..

 

They don't think they're weak at TE and they can get a left tackle in the 2nd round

 

[jvan1973]

5 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Then you've lost the price of the call......hey, call collect

McCaffrey is more valuable to Denver than he is to anyone else......

He not only fills 3 roles (3rd down back, KR and slot receiver) fro them, he's a legacy player..

 

They don't think they're weak at TE and they can get a left tackle in the 2nd round

 

I would be shocked if mcccaffery goes before 20.  But if the colts make the call,  they will certainly get less than if the broncos make the call

[jvan1973]

11 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

Think on this...

The Colts could draft McCaffrey and then trade him to Denver..

It keeps pickers 16 thru 19 from getting him...

 

Y'all never saw 'Draft Day'?

It all depends on how much Denver wants him.   Just because he is Eds kid,  doesn't mean they are willing to trade a bunch of picks to get him.

[oldunclemark]

10 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It all depends on how much Denver wants him.   Just because he is Eds kid,  doesn't mean they are willing to trade a bunch of picks to get him.

But its part of it.

He fills 3 roles on the team. You saw that offense last year. They'd trade to get him, even if his name was Tebow.

[oldunclemark]

13 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I would be shocked if mcccaffery goes before 20.  But if the colts make the call,  they will certainly get less than if the broncos make the call

prepare to be shocked...Broncos gave up picks to move up to get Shane Ray and Paxton Lynch the last 2 years.

The call is worth making

[jvan1973]

1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

But its part of it.

He fills 3 roles on the team. You saw that offense last year. They'd trade to get him, even if his name was Tebow.

You play him in all three roles,  his career will be a short one

[oldunclemark]

4 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You play him in all three roles,  his career will be a short one

.......no one can predict the length of an NFL career.....

Denver has 3 needs in skill positions...a slot receiver...3rd down back and kick returner

Here's a guy who can do all 3......a near perfect fit

....he's in the to-15 now on most draft projections...and they know absolutely everything about him

 

././they'd be foolish not to draft him because he's the son of a former player

..and with the 15th pick..we'd be foolish not to offer Denver that pick for the 20th pick and maybe 2 3rd rounders.

Since Denver's given up picks to move up in the last 2 drafts.

 

The phone call may already have been made