Who is the 2016 MVP?

[BloodyChamp]

Yes you can unc. The award is for this year, not last year. Stay with us unc...surely that's you're only problem unc. You can't possibly be butthurt about the topic you got destroyed in outside unc 

[Gramz]

1 hour ago, BloodyChamp said:

Yes you can unc. The award is for this year, not last year. Stay with us unc...surely that's you're only problem unc. You can't possibly be butthurt about the topic you got destroyed in outside unc 

Going to intervene here.  If I'm reading his comments correctly, I believe he was saying they had the same OL last year, yet  zeke has just blown everyone away this year with that same OL...  which shows just how spectacular he is.  

[aaron11]

17 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

If Zeke sits the last game and Matt Ryan out duels Drew Brees in a thumping fashion, Matt might finally get consideration, IMO.

zeke is going to play

 

they are going to give him a shot at the rookie rushing record.  he needs 170 so it'll be a tough one

[Myles]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

The point, as you already know, is.

You cant diminish what Elliot is doing by saying he's running behind a good line.

Stay with us here, BC..

 

That line's been there...and those numbers haven't been posted

What Elliot is doing is 'him', not the line

 

Zeke Elliott hasn't been stopped. He wasn't suspended...or hurt for games

His rushing yards are No,1 in the NFL.......this year...no one has stopped him

The question: How can players without elite number totals  even be considered?

While I'd have no problem with Zeke getting it because he is a great running back, to say that the line isn't a major contributor is wrong.   He would not be this good on most other teams.   However he would still be a top RB in the league.  I wish the Colts would see that having a dominate O-line makes every position better:

The QB - Because he has time to scan the field

The RB's - For obvious reasons

The WR's - Because most WR's can get open in 4 seconds.   Plus the QB has time to find them

The defense - Because they are well rested

 

[Yehoodi]

3 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

The point, as you already know, is.

You cant diminish what Elliot is doing by saying he's running behind a good line.

Stay with us here, BC..

 

That line's been there...and those numbers haven't been posted

What Elliot is doing is 'him', not the line

 

Zeke Elliott hasn't been stopped. He wasn't suspended...or hurt for games

His rushing yards are No,1 in the NFL.......this year...no one has stopped him

The question: How can players without elite number totals  even be considered?

 

I think we all agree that the MVP award has both an individual element as well as a team element.  

 

With respect to Dallas' oline . . . 

 

in 2014 DeMarco Murray lead the league with 392 rushes, 1845 yards, 13 TDs and 115.3 yards/game on the 12-4 Cowboys.  The MVP went to A. Rodgers who, btw, was throwing to 3 - 2nd round picks at WR, a 2nd round pick at RB, and 3rd round pick at TE, so all very high draft picks at the skilled offensive positions.

 

I mention the above for two points, one to show that a solid runner is capable of putting up numbers behind the Dallas Oline and two that the MVP voters can snub a RB in favor of a QB even though the latter has help at his position.  

 

I can see the voters giving it to Elliot, but at the same time given what Murray did just two years ago, I can some folks qualifying how the Dallas Oline has helped their RBs.  Fortunately for Elliot there are no favorite nation status QBs (like Rodgers) that have the numbers to snub a RB.  

 

I can see Ryan getting it over Elliot if he plays well against the Saints and secures the #2 seed for Atlanta.  Alas, Ryan is not one of the favorite nation status QBs in our league and normally does not get the love as other QBs.     

 

[Yehoodi]

On 12/25/2016 at 9:41 PM, 19colt said:

Unless Denver makes a great comeback, how many playoff teams has Tom Brady defeated this season?

 

1 and it was without Big Ben. 

 

He has the number one defense and his team went 3-1 without him. They go 4-0 of Garopollo stays healthy.

 

I am puzzled that people on a Colts forum can say he is more valuable this season than Ryan and Rodgers who are carrying their teams to the playoffs. We may be able Stafford to that list and a good case is being made here for Elliot as well. 

 

 

 

The MVP is still up in the air.  Now that Atlanta is in the pole position for the #2 seed and a bye, i can see the MVP going to Ryan if he can hold serve and play solid against the Saints this weekend.  

 

As i mentioned in my preceding post regarding Elliot, Dallas's oline and what Murray did two years ago, I can see some qualifying what Elliot did and some feeling comfortable giving it to Ryan who has solid numbers, near top in many cases, and won (if win on Sunday) 11 games and #2 seed.  

 

Ryan has been outside some of the great QB talk over the past years and frankly imo gets under appreciated by some, so it would be good if he got some love.   Perhaps there may be a "time is now" sentiment towards Ryan, which i would welcome.

 

As for Brady, I think he needs some help, he has to play well this weekend and i think it would help if Atlanta loses and is out of the bye (and maybe Dallas to lose too).  Brady would have helped 11 wins to the pats and would be the same amount, or more, of wins as all other candidates save for Elliot and Carr.   As for our back-ups, as i mentioned before, we have solid back ups and were an unforced error missed AZ FG from 2-2.   

 

Regarding Jimmy G, a good way to look at it is not necessarily how he did/does with NE, but how would he do on Dallas, Atlanta, Oakland, GB, etc.  If one thinks he could got 11-5 in Atlanta or GB, then his contribution is kind of a wash so to speak.    

 

EDIT: Yah forgot to mentioned.  Agreed on the Pats schedule, we have not had the strongest schedule.  We though won comfortably with most of Brady's wins, so this is something, but agreed i can see the Pats schedule qualifying Brady's 10/11 wins. 

[BloodyChamp]

1 hour ago, Gramz said:

Going to intervene here.  If I'm reading his comments correctly, I believe he was saying they had the same OL last year, yet  zeke has just blown everyone away this year with that same OL...  which shows just how spectacular he is.  

 

The award is for this year not last year. Ryan and Stafford didn't have good years last year either but that doesn't disqualify them this year, and it shouldn't disqualify the Cowboys OL (figuratively...because when somebody runs out of comebacks they're going to remind us that an OL can't win MVP).

 

Besides we've all agreed elsewhere that it wouldn't be the same behind, say, the Colt's OL even if Zeke's that good. Andrew Luck and Frank Gore are pretty good to but they've looked like trash behind that OL when they're not out with lacerated kidneys.

[Gramz]

56 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

The award is for this year not last year. Ryan and Stafford didn't have good years last year either but that doesn't disqualify them this year, and it shouldn't disqualify the Cowboys OL (figuratively...because when somebody runs out of comebacks they're going to remind us that an OL can't win MVP).

 

Besides we've all agreed elsewhere that it wouldn't be the same behind, say, the Colt's OL even if Zeke's that good. Andrew Luck and Frank Gore are pretty good to but they've looked like trash behind that OL when they're not out with lacerated kidneys.

Well of course it is for this year. Zeke has been amazing this year.

 

I have no idea how he would have done with a different OL.  I like what he's doing with this one.  He's has had an amazing year.  I think he very well could get the MVP.  

 

Who is your choice?

[Gramz]

Double post

[Myles]

I think it would be cool if they gave it to the whole Dallas offensive line.

[BloodyChamp]

I honestly don't know who my choice is lol! I'm reluctant to pick 1 because when somebody wins it people will somehow find direct links to why they're better than the Cowboys OL. Nobody else will be in that discussion, just the Cowboys OL. They're getting thrown under the bus big time even if Zeke (who is good) is the MVP.

 

Even Adrian Peterson had a good OL for the 2nd half of 2012 and a Pro Bowl Fullback. The Cowboys and Vikings play offensive line style football. Their OL makes more things happen the way their plays are drawn up as opposed to, say, the Cardinals whose running plays are either to hit a gap immediately or run wide. Their OL basically just hits the guy in front of them while Johnson tries to run forward. There aren't many 2 back sets, plays designed to make bigger holes while the RB waits, pulling linemen, etc. That's why Johnson is also many people's favorite RB even though he won't exactly win MVP.

 

Both guys could still use a better OL though, especially AP. The stats were there for him to through the years but forget 7-9 or 8-8 or whatever the Cardinals are looking at. Try 2-14 when a piece was missing. 

[BloodyChamp]

But I have a feeling somebody is going to just flat out ball in week 17 and win the MVP for that reason similar to Rodgers in 2014. Heck it might even be Rodgers. If Stafford torches the Packers it still might be him. Then there's Ryan like somebody already said. It wouldn't be the biggest surprise if he had 7 TDs in a 49-42 win against the Saints who I hate but are always down for a shootout. That's the closest I'm getting to a choice lol!

[aaron11]

 

8 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

The award is for this year not last year. Ryan and Stafford didn't have good years last year either but that doesn't disqualify them this year, and it shouldn't disqualify the Cowboys OL (figuratively...because when somebody runs out of comebacks they're going to remind us that an OL can't win MVP).

 

Besides we've all agreed elsewhere that it wouldn't be the same behind, say, the Colt's OL even if Zeke's that good. Andrew Luck and Frank Gore are pretty good to but they've looked like trash behind that OL when they're not out with lacerated kidneys.

it doesnt matter that the cowboys have the best line, and mvp isnt about truly being the most valuable

 

its about stats and winning, which zeke has done

 

yes other backs could have done well behind that line, but that is irrelavant

 

what matters is what happened on the field this year, not the hypotheticals

[BloodyChamp]

I'm pretty sure the Cowboys OL have the same record as the Cowboys RB. I should probably look it up though.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, BloodyChamp said:

I'm pretty sure the Cowboys OL have the same record as the Cowboys RB. I should probably look it up though.

can an oline even win mvp?

 

 

[aaron11]

if theres a tie we can have co mvps, but how could an oline win it?

[Gramz]

Just now, aaron11 said:

can an oline even win mvp?

 

 

  I've been wondering the same thing.    

I'm not sure that is what BC is suggesting,  or maybe it is

 

I do get the point he is driving over and over, tho......   It is so important to have a good OL.  Maybe we'll have one,  one day.

[BloodyChamp]

8 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

 

The award is for this year not last year. Ryan and Stafford didn't have good years last year either but that doesn't disqualify them this year, and it shouldn't disqualify the Cowboys OL (figuratively...because when somebody runs out of comebacks they're going to remind us that an OL can't win MVP).

 

Besides we've all agreed elsewhere that it wouldn't be the same behind, say, the Colt's OL even if Zeke's that good. Andrew Luck and Frank Gore are pretty good to but they've looked like trash behind that OL when they're not out with lacerated kidneys.

 

[Synthetic]

 

It's going to Brady and no one else. MVP usually comes down to wins. If not him, than a rookie in Dallas which is very unlikely. 

 

Those of you saying Brady missing 4 games will hurt him, look up the 1993 MVP selection. Emmitt Smith won the MVP that year despite missing two games and under worse circumstances: Smith missed the Cowboys first two games after holding out for money. Brady was wrongfully suspended by a witch hunt scandal. With that aside, yes, you can win MVP even with missing some games. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Synthetic said:

 

It's going to Brady and no one else. MVP usually comes down to wins. If not him, than a rookie in Dallas which is very unlikely. 

 

Those of you saying Brady missing 4 games will hurt him, look up the 1993 MVP selection. Emmitt Smith won the MVP that year despite missing two games and under worse circumstances: Smith missed the Cowboys first two games after holding out for money. Brady was wrongfully suspended by a witch hunt scandal. With that aside, yes, you can win MVP even with missing some games. 

I think Brady will win MVP as well if Pats finish 14-2. No rookie is going to win MVP so Zeke and Dak are out of it.  I just dont see the league giving the MVP to Matt Ryan, Brady is more of a face of the NFL. I could see Rodgers getting MVP if the Pack win next week more than I can Ryan. At this time I think it's Brady's to lose IMO.

[Synthetic]

3 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think Brady will win MVP as well if Pats finish 14-2. No rookie is going to win MVP so Zeke and Dak are out of it.  I just dont see the league giving the MVP to Matt Ryan, Brady is more of a face of the NFL. I could see Rodgers getting MVP if the Pack win next week more than I can Ryan. At this time I think it's Brady's to lose IMO.

 

 

Matt Ryan's numbers are largely to thank from Julio Jones. He has the best wide receiver in the league. He's struggled when he don't have Julio to depend on, so there's the Falcons real MVP. Put Julio Jones on the Saints, and Brees would have already surpassed 5,000 yards at this point. No way do I want Ryan to get the MVP. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Matt Ryan's numbers are largely to thank from Julio Jones. He has the best wide receiver in the league. He's struggled when he don't have Julio to depend on, so there's the Falcons real MVP. Put Julio Jones on the Saints, and Brees would have already surpassed 5,000 yards at this point. No way do I want Ryan to get the MVP. 

I don't think you have much to worry about. It will probably come down to Brady and Rodgers if Rodgers wins this week at Detroit. I think Brady will get it, he has only lost 1 game as a starter and the guy doesn't throw INT's.

[Myles]

5 hours ago, Synthetic said:

 

 

Matt Ryan's numbers are largely to thank from Julio Jones. He has the best wide receiver in the league. He's struggled when he don't have Julio to depend on, so there's the Falcons real MVP. Put Julio Jones on the Saints, and Brees would have already surpassed 5,000 yards at this point. No way do I want Ryan to get the MVP. 

And the Pats went 3-1 without Brady.

Ryan has the better numbers and should win it.   Ryan has spread the ball around more than anyone, so It isn't Jones doing it all. 

[aaron11]

 

15 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

I'm pretty sure the Cowboys OL have the same record as the Cowboys RB. I should probably look it up though.

 

the voters cast a ballot for a single player

 

how could an oline win like that?

 

your comment about what zeke would do behind different lines is irrelavent

 

its about what happened, not what could have, should have or would have happened

 

[jvan1973]

15 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:

I'm pretty sure the Cowboys OL have the same record as the Cowboys RB. I should probably look it up though.

Pretty sure the cowboys o lines were great for emmitt in his career as well.  Should Emmitt not have won an MVP because of that?   It's rare a player wins MVP if he is surrounded by terrible players

[aaron11]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure the cowboys o lines were great for emmitt in his career as well.  Should Emmitt not have won an MVP because of that?   It's rare a player wins MVP if he is surrounded by terrible players

exactly

 

hypothetical arguments dont belong in the discussion

 

what if Andrew luck played for the patriots or cowboys?  i guess he would be the mvp

[BloodyChamp]

Emmitt Smith actually has his critics because of his OL, and gosh knows Aikman does. He's a darkhorse for most overrated ever. I'm not necessarily saying I agree about either but it's out there. Emmitt finally won because they started 0-2 without him and because he won the week 17 game against the Giants with a separated shoulder in a game that's considered 1 the greatest performances ever by a single football player.

 

I know an OL can't win the award for heck's sake but keep on repeating that. It only verifies what I bolded. 

[19colt]

Good article here discussing Ryan, Brady, Brees and Rodgers:

http://quarterbackscore.webs.com/apps/blog/entries/show/44363962-mvp-for-ryan-another-silver-medal-for-brady-another-record-for-brees-and-a-first-time-for-rodgers

[oldunclemark]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 7:33 AM, BloodyChamp said:

Yes you can unc. The award is for this year, not last year. Stay with us unc...surely that's you're only problem unc. You can't possibly be butthurt about the topic you got destroyed in outside unc 

Sounds like trolling...'''

........Its hard to make a real arguement against Elliott, I'm sensing

 

[oldunclemark]

On ‎12‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 10:43 PM, Synthetic said:

 

It's going to Brady and no one else. MVP usually comes down to wins. If not him, than a rookie in Dallas which is very unlikely. 

 

Those of you saying Brady missing 4 games will hurt him, look up the 1993 MVP selection. Emmitt Smith won the MVP that year despite missing two games and under worse circumstances: Smith missed the Cowboys first two games after holding out for money. Brady was wrongfully suspended by a witch hunt scandal. With that aside, yes, you can win MVP even with missing some games. 

 

Hard to put Brady ahead of Aaron Rodgers or Matt Ryan if we're just talking QBs..

Its not that close

 

Matt Ryan - 346 of 498,  4,613 yards, 34 TDs, 7 INTs

Aaron Rodgers - 374 of 571,  4,128 yards, 36 TDs, 7 INTs

Tom Brady - 266 of 399,  3,278 yards, 25 TDs, 2 INTs

[Moose Of Woe]

Carr might still be a viable candidate since with him gone so too probably goes Oakland's playoff success aspirations. Unfortunately, the injury disqualifies him in many people's eyes. Maybe they can still win without him.

 

Matt Ryan has played the best football. It's a toss up between him, Brady, Rodgers and Carr as to which is most valuable to their team's success.

 

We've seen life without Brady, and it's not that bad. We're about to see life without Carr.

 

 I think Rodgers is the best QB in football despite his slow start, but Ryan has produced all season. Therefore, I think he deserves the MVP this season.

[oldunclemark]

2 minutes ago, Moose Of Woe said:

Carr might still be a viable candidate since with him gone so too probably goes Oakland's playoff success aspirations. Unfortunately, the injury disqualifies him in many people's eyes. Maybe they can still win without him.

 

Matt Ryan has played the best football. It's a toss up between him, Brady, Rodgers and Carr as to which is most valuable to their team's success. I still think Rodgers is the best QB in football despite his slow start, but Ryan has produced all season.

I forgot Carr...

....He is in there, too

[Moose Of Woe]

2 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

I forgot Carr...

....He is in there, too

OAK sure has come a long way this year. It really sucks that he got hurt...wouldn't mind seeing them make a playoff run at full strength. Especially as I thought they were the only team with a fair shot upending NE.  KC and PIT might do it but I'm not nearly as confident in either of them.

[Jules]

Not sure how it isn't Tom Brady. I mean that team is 14 and freaking 2 in a division that is sending two to the playoffs. How can you argue against that? No Gronk a lot as well.

 

I KNOW the Pats went 3-1 without him (I was awake for all of that). But, come on.........14-2 and it's Brady. If this was Manning most here would say "Manning" easily.

 

Matt Ryan is doing his best to get the stats today to win it but really.......a QB of a 10-6 team in a crappy azzz division?

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

Not sure how it isn't Tom Brady. I mean that team is 14 and freaking 2 in a division that is sending two to the playoffs. How can you argue against that? No Gronk a lot as well.

 

I KNOW the Pats went 3-1 without him (I was awake for all of that). But, come on.........14-2 and it's Brady. If this was Manning most here would say "Manning" easily.

 

Matt Ryan is doing his best to get the stats today to win it but really.......a QB of a 10-6 team in a crappy azzz division?

I think Brady will win it. I told Bogie that the other day.

[Gramz]

1 minute ago, Jules said:

Not sure how it isn't Tom Brady. I mean that team is 14 and freaking 2 in a division that is sending two to the playoffs. How can you argue against that? No Gronk a lot as well.

 

I KNOW the Pats went 3-1 without him (I was awake for all of that). But, come on.........14-2 and it's Brady. If this was Manning most here would say "Manning" easily.

 

Matt Ryan is doing his best to get the stats today to win it but really.......a QB of a 10-6 team in a crappy azzz division?

because, to give this award to someone who was suspended for 4 games, for breaking league rules, would be ludicrous.

 

Next year maybe, if he's still on his game and has a similar season.

[Gramz]

Just may be Matt Ryan's year.    I still believe Zeke is deserving, but I'd be okay with Matt getting it.

[buffalo34]

The Patriots rolled along just fine without Brady. He really wasn't missed in those first four games. They'd arguably still be a double digit win team without him. I'd say Rodgers bringing the Packers all the way back and having to overcome that horrible defense on his team.

[jvan1973]

31 minutes ago, Jules said:

Not sure how it isn't Tom Brady. I mean that team is 14 and freaking 2 in a division that is sending two to the playoffs. How can you argue against that? No Gronk a lot as well.

 

I KNOW the Pats went 3-1 without him (I was awake for all of that). But, come on.........14-2 and it's Brady. If this was Manning most here would say "Manning" easily.

 

Matt Ryan is doing his best to get the stats today to win it but really.......a QB of a 10-6 team in a crappy azzz division?

Manning wouldn't have been suspended for 4 Ganges

[Bad Morty]

If a QB had been injured for 4 games and then put up the numbers Brady put up, there would be no discussion. As to the notion that they "rolled along just fine" without him...they got shut-out by the freakin' Bills. 'nuff said.