Luck's Shoulder

[ColtsFanMikeC]

Andrew Luck was held out of yesterday's practice due to 'shoulder soreness', though both he and Chud are adamant he'll be our starter come Sunday.

 

I thought Luck hurt his shoulder last year in pre-season and he didn't seem right throwing the ball most of last year.  He looked very sharp week 1, but last week there were a few throws that were high or just off target (including the pick 6 by Talib).  He was on the injury report with a shoulder....

 

Is anyone else concerned about this?

 

To me, there could be a number of reasons for his high throws -- one being the amount of pressure he faces, he might be throwing high in hopes of avoiding tipped/batted down balls and two being arm fatigue/soreness.

 

It sounds like he will start, and I hope I'm overreacting, but to me it seemed like he had shoulder issues last year (and to my knowledge, never had any sort of medical procedures done to correct it).  With >1/2 the year off to rest last year, plus a full off-season, I am a bit worried that he is sitting out of practices with shoulder soreness prior to week 3 of his 5th season.  If he were a 12 year vet or if this was week 14, I would be less worried.

 

 

*I didn't see any other posts about this, which was surprising, so mods, please merge if a thread already exists on this topic.

[dw49]

7 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Andrew Luck was held out of yesterday's practice due to 'shoulder soreness', though both he and Chud are adamant he'll be our starter come Sunday.

 

I thought Luck hurt his shoulder last year in pre-season and he didn't seem right throwing the ball most of last year.  He looked very sharp week 1, but last week there were a few throws that were high or just off target (including the pick 6 by Talib).  He was on the injury report with a shoulder....

 

Is anyone else concerned about this?

 

To me, there could be a number of reasons for his high throws -- one being the amount of pressure he faces, he might be throwing high in hopes of avoiding tipped/batted down balls and two being arm fatigue/soreness.

 

It sounds like he will start, and I hope I'm overreacting, but to me it seemed like he had shoulder issues last year (and to my knowledge, never had any sort of medical procedures done to correct it).  With >1/2 the year off to rest last year, plus a full off-season, I am a bit worried that he is sitting out of practices with shoulder soreness prior to week 3 of his 5th season.  If he were a 12 year vet or if this was week 14, I would be less worried.

 

 

*I didn't see any other posts about this, which was surprising, so mods, please merge if a thread already exists on this topic.

 

Yeah.. count me concerned also. I agree that Luck mostly looked "off" let year throwing the football. He looked like a young Nolan Ryan vs Denver. I'm no expert on the issue Luck had with last year's shoulder issue but I do know this. Shoulder injuries are very often for years or maybe forever. For a baseball pitcher , it's the worst. Very often career ending. The fact that they are )at the very least ) monitoring this and giving him days off is scary to me. Kind of makes you wonder about that monster contract ? The Colts kind of had to make that "gamble" rather than let Luck play his contract out ? Even at "diminished" efficiency he was probably going to get at least 18 mill or so per year. So I guess not a bad gamble as his career should not be in jeopardy of being over.

[theanarchist]

12 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Andrew Luck was held out of yesterday's practice due to 'shoulder soreness', though both he and Chud are adamant he'll be our starter come Sunday.

 

I thought Luck hurt his shoulder last year in pre-season and he didn't seem right throwing the ball most of last year.  He looked very sharp week 1, but last week there were a few throws that were high or just off target (including the pick 6 by Talib).  He was on the injury report with a shoulder....

 

Is anyone else concerned about this?

 

To me, there could be a number of reasons for his high throws -- one being the amount of pressure he faces, he might be throwing high in hopes of avoiding tipped/batted down balls and two being arm fatigue/soreness.

 

It sounds like he will start, and I hope I'm overreacting, but to me it seemed like he had shoulder issues last year (and to my knowledge, never had any sort of medical procedures done to correct it).  With >1/2 the year off to rest last year, plus a full off-season, I am a bit worried that he is sitting out of practices with shoulder soreness prior to week 3 of his 5th season.  If he were a 12 year vet or if this was week 14, I would be less worried.

 

 

*I didn't see any other posts about this, which was surprising, so mods, please merge if a thread already exists on this topic.

Yes, I definitely think there is more than what anyone is saying. Having had a son who was baseball pitcher that suffered a shoulder injury I know how these injuries can be a real difficult thing to manage. The shoulder is the most complicated joint in the body and injuries to that joint are very difficult to manage and difficult for throwers to return from injury. There is no doubt in my mind that Luck has some sort ongoing issue with his shoulder and it is trying to be managed without surgery.

[indyagent17]

Tom Brady was listed on the Patriots injury report for years with a shoulder injury.  We have enough to worry about with the depleted roster and an 0-2 start.  Lets just see how this shoulder injury plays out before we put him on the IR

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

The fact that he even has to say/clarify "He'll be our starter come Sunday" bugs me to no end. I wish they were just honest about this and fix this man's shoulder.  He really does seem injured to me and our staff has lost my trust when it comes to these things.

 

Flame me for being reactionary but I'm honestly concerned. One bad hit while he's throwing or one Jay Cutleresque pile-up sack and he's toast for the rest or the season/worse off for his career.

 

Obviously this could happen to any qb at any given time but if he's still even a little injured then the risk is heightened 

[indy1888]

23 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Andrew Luck was held out of yesterday's practice due to 'shoulder soreness', though both he and Chud are adamant he'll be our starter come Sunday.

 

I thought Luck hurt his shoulder last year in pre-season and he didn't seem right throwing the ball most of last year.  He looked very sharp week 1, but last week there were a few throws that were high or just off target (including the pick 6 by Talib).  He was on the injury report with a shoulder....

 

Is anyone else concerned about this?

 

To me, there could be a number of reasons for his high throws -- one being the amount of pressure he faces, he might be throwing high in hopes of avoiding tipped/batted down balls and two being arm fatigue/soreness.

 

It sounds like he will start, and I hope I'm overreacting, but to me it seemed like he had shoulder issues last year (and to my knowledge, never had any sort of medical procedures done to correct it).  With >1/2 the year off to rest last year, plus a full off-season, I am a bit worried that he is sitting out of practices with shoulder soreness prior to week 3 of his 5th season.  If he were a 12 year vet or if this was week 14, I would be less worried.

 

 

*I didn't see any other posts about this, which was surprising, so mods, please merge if a thread already exists on this topic.

 

I was concerned as soon as they started limiting him in  practice out of the blue and then said it was part of a plan, which i don't buy. The fact that a young QB like Luck needs to be on a pitch count at all is a cause for concern.  That is not normal.  The fact that he has now missed a practice entirely due to the shoulder is concerning. It's only week 3.  I'm concerned more long term then short at this point.  If he's still having issues after an offseason of rest in week 3 then whats the future looking like? Makes me nervous for sure.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

3 minutes ago, indyagent17 said:

Tom Brady was listed on the Patriots injury report for years with a shoulder injury.  We have enough to worry about with the depleted roster and an 0-2 start.  Lets just see how this shoulder injury plays out before we put him on the IR

 

I don't follow the Pats as close as I follow the Colts, so I am not really sure if Brady was missing practices or if he ever looked off when he was listed.  Luck just looked off last year, then there was the NFL investigation into the Colts hiding things from the injury report or falsifying them (Luck had a variety of injuries last year, so it could have been a number of injuries which were involved in that investigation, though I think the 'sublaxation of the shoulder' was a major part of it).

 

I am not saying put him on the IR, I am just a bit concerned that he's missing practice to rest his shoulder soreness this early in the season.  It's not like he is a 10+ year vet or like this is week 15, we have a playoff spot locked up and this is a very obvious precautionary resting.  We have been struggling as a team, last week we were struggling with the offense (Luck was struggling with timing, accuracy, and WRs were having some of their own struggles) -- plus, we lost Moncrief and will have a different set of WRs this week than we've seen.  It seems to me like the more reps Luck can get in practice to work out some of these kinks, get familiar with new guy, etc. would be beneficial.

 

2 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

The fact that he even has to say/clarify "He'll be our starter come Sunday" bugs me to no end. I wish they were just honest about this and fix this man's shoulder.  He really does seem injured to me and our staff has lost my trust when it comes to these things.

 

Flame me for being reactionary but I'm honestly concerned. One bad hit while he's throwing or one Jay Cutleresque pile-up sack and he's toast for the rest or the season/worse off for his career.

 

Obviously this could happen to any qb at any given time but if he's still even a little injured then the risk is heightened 

 

I tend to agree with you -- I am sure every staff/FO in the league has done some shady stuff when it comes to reporting injuries/not reporting injuries.  However, this is our franchise QB and the fact that the league was actually investigating us about him last year causes me to be a bit skeptical.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

8 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

I was concerned as soon as they started limiting him in  practice out of the blue and then said it was part of a plan, which i don't buy. The fact that a young QB like Luck needs to be on a pitch count at all is a cause for concern.  That is not normal.  The fact that he has now missed a practice entirely due to the shoulder is concerning. It's only week 3.  I'm concerned more long term then short at this point.  If he's still having issues after an offseason of rest in week 3 then whats the future looking like? Makes me nervous for sure.

 Yes, an offseason of rest plus the last 9 weeks off of last season -- this was the 'longest offseason' Luck has had to date (granted he was recovering from the kidney issue last year, he still was resting his arm pretty much entirely for more time consecutively than he probably has since before he was playing HS football).

[Dudley Smith]

It is definitely concerning -- but only because of last year. Not cause to panic (yet). I can only remember a couple of throws that truly sailed on him last weekend -- and he has always had some of those in every game he has played since his NFL career began -- even pre-injury. The low completion percentage was more due to the Broncos playing excellent D and our offense becoming a little too vertical (unlike in week 1).

 

If he actually misses a game because of the shoulder, THEN I will be very concerned.

[SilentHill]

I don't know why people can't get it, that this is the plan for Luck, his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

8 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I don't know why people can't get it, that this is the plan for Luck, his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits.

Could Be. But that's just as much a reach as anyone believing he might still be injured 

[SilentHill]

Just now, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Could Be. But that's just as much a reach as anyone believing he might still be injured 

 

until he looks injured it's not a concern to me or anyone else.

[Superman]

7 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Could Be. But that's just as much a reach as anyone believing he might still be injured 

 

That's not a reach at all. It's what he and the staff have said, repeatedly. 

 

It's everyone's prerogative to be skeptical and to speculate about what the situation really is, but there's a difference between what's actually being reported and your conjecture.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

That's not a reach at all. It's what he and the staff have said, repeatedly. 

 

It's everyone's prerogative to be skeptical and to speculate about what the situation really is, but there's a difference between what's actually being reported and your conjecture.

So the staff have said " his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits". 

 

Interesting, I've never seen that reported 

[ColtsFanMikeC]

9 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I don't know why people can't get it, that this is the plan for Luck, his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits.

 

I still don't get it -- I would get it if he wasn't sitting out due to what they are calling a 'sore shoulder', but the fact that those 2 words are in the mix leads me to believe this is something more than just a calculated plan for him.

 

Also, it's only week 3 and we just lost one of our starting WRs and have a new WR on the roster who Luck has never played with.  Denver's D was good last week, but Luck was also off on more than a couple of throws and his timing with WRs was not quite right the whole game -- it seems to me like having him in practice working on some timing issues and getting familiar with the new WR and new WR packages would be beneficial at this point in time.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

So the staff have said " his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits". 

 

Interesting, I've never seen that reported 

 

No. They've said this is the plan for Luck, almost word for word. 

 

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2016/9/8/12851954/ryan-grigson-denies-report-that-andrew-luck-has-labrum-fraying-says-limitation-is-part-of-plan-colts

 

"...We have a plan that we think's best for him, and one he feels good about, and that's what we're doing... "

 

"That's another thing where people don't have a league-wide perspective on how the league works a lot of times. I mean, it's no different from other quarterbacks in the league that say they're limited and they get rest just like Robert Mathis gets rest or other players.  You just want guys fresh going into the season, and he's in a new chapter, really, in this organization and on this team, and you just want the guy to be fresh for Sunday."

 

He's going to be limited or even not participate in practice some days this year. Are we going to assume that there's something wrong every week?

[superrep1967]

31 minutes ago, Dudley Smith said:

It is definitely concerning -- but only because of last year. Not cause to panic (yet). I can only remember a couple of throws that truly sailed on him last weekend -- and he has always had some of those in every game he has played since his NFL career began -- even pre-injury. The low completion percentage was more due to the Broncos playing excellent D and our offense becoming a little too vertical (unlike in week 1).

 

If he actually misses a game because of the shoulder, THEN I will be very concerned.

 His throws could be high because he's trying to keep from getting balls batted down. 

[superrep1967]

31 minutes ago, SilentHill said:

I don't know why people can't get it, that this is the plan for Luck, his practice participation is probably based off of statistics of the previous game, like pass attempts and QB hits.

I hope your right. 

[SilentHill]

12 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

I still don't get it -- I would get it if he wasn't sitting out due to what they are calling a 'sore shoulder', but the fact that those 2 words are in the mix leads me to believe this is something more than just a calculated plan for him.

 

Also, it's only week 3 and we just lost one of our starting WRs and have a new WR on the roster who Luck has never played with.  Denver's D was good last week, but Luck was also off on more than a couple of throws and his timing with WRs was not quite right the whole game -- it seems to me like having him in practice working on some timing issues and getting familiar with the new WR and new WR packages would be beneficial at this point in time.

 

Every single QB in this league has off throws every game, even Peyton Manning, why are people expecting perfection from Luck? I'm pretty sure if Luck went 30/30 with 5 TD and 400 yds passing people would still complain.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

He was in Palo Alto pretty much all offseason prior to OTAs rehabbing and strengthening his shoulder with a physical therapist. Seemed like a pretty hush hush thing at the time, so I just wrote it off as precautionary. It does seem odd that they'd keep him out of practice while trying to install a game plan for this Sunday after his biggest target went down with an injury last week. I still think it's precautionary for the most part, but I'd put money on the fact that he gets shoulder surgery this next offseason, kind of seems like a foregone conclusion.

[snkdy]

 

I'm not a big fan of Holder, but he seems concerned for whatever that's worth.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 minutes ago, snkdy said:

I'm not a big fan of Holder, but he seems concerned for whatever that's worth.

 

 

It honestly just sounds like this is going to be the mid-week routine all year.

[Jim H.]

Good thing Andrew has an Engineering Degree.

[SilentHill]

Luck is fine, let it go,

[BCoop]

The local media are the ones fueling this fire. Say what you want about the Colts organization, but they've been very clear about Andrew from Day 1 this year. There is a plan in place to have him limited at practice throughout the week. There will probably be some weeks where he rests more than others depending on what type of abuse he took the week before. 

 

We know he had shoulder subluxation last year. Based on everything we heard at the time, this is a condition that has the potential to never fully heal. This is why the staff and Andrew are taking every precaution to keep his shoulder healthy and strong. Any sign of weakness or soreness will be met with a few days of rest. The goal is to not have another instance of subluxation as the tissue becomes weaker each time it happens. Over time, it can become chronic and require surgery. Obviously, every one involved would rather play it safe and avoid that if possible.

 

I thought this was all discussed previously but maybe not. There is going to be a higher level of risk for re-injury compared to other athletes, but the rest days/limited practices shouldn't be of concern right now knowing his history with that shoulder.

[indy1888]

Interesting that Holder is now starting to question the situation.  Up until now he has acted as if this was a non issue. Wonder why the sudden change?

 

And yeah he has been limited every Thursday i believe, of course, those weeks he did not miss a Wednesday practice either.  

[Larry Horseman]

5 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

Interesting that Holder is now starting to question the situation.  Up until now he has acted as if this was a non issue. Wonder why the sudden change?

 

And yeah he has been limited every Thursday i believe, of course, those weeks he did not miss a Wednesday practice either.  

I am interested in Holder's change in direction. Guess there's nothing to do but watch this unfold...

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

Interesting that Holder is now starting to question the situation.  Up until now he has acted as if this was a non issue. Wonder why the sudden change?

 

And yeah he has been limited every Thursday i believe, of course, those weeks he did not miss a Wednesday practice either.  

 

He feels like the Colts aren't being transparent about this, when in reality, they said from the get-go that they had a plan in place, and they're sticking to it. He wants there to be more to it because his job is to break stories.

[Larry Horseman]

2 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He feels like the Colts aren't being transparent about this, when in reality, they said from the get-go that they had a plan in place, and they're sticking to it. He wants there to be more to it because his job is to break stories.

 

I would generally agree but, during week 1, Holder was pushing the this is the plan narrative to the point where he was calling it a non-story. His 180 is interesting. Perhaps it was the "sore shoulder" report that caused the shift. 

[BCoop]

1 minute ago, Larry Horseman said:

 

I would generally agree but, during week 1, Holder was pushing the this is the plan narrative to the point where he was calling it a non-story. His 180 is interesting. Perhaps it was the "sore shoulder" report that caused the shift. 

 

Holder doesn't really strike me as a pillar of stability. He seems to overreact to a variety of team-related issues so it's not surprising that this is concerning to him now.

[Larry Horseman]

Just now, BCoop said:

 

Holder doesn't really strike me as a pillar of stability. He seems to overreact to a variety of team-related issues so it's not surprising that this is concerning to him now.

Fair enough. He's prob just flip flopping to go from one side to the other to be opposite whatever the main narrative is...

[indy1888]

 

12 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

He feels like the Colts aren't being transparent about this, when in reality, they said from the get-go that they had a plan in place, and they're sticking to it. He wants there to be more to it because his job is to break stories.

 

Except, they didn't say from the get go they had a plan in place. They said it 3 days before the start of the regular season.  The get go would have been day 1 of camp, and it would have easily erased much of the questions the Colts are getting.   But, the Colts wait until he starts missing practices before they say anything and then wonder why people are questioning them.  The same team who hid things about Lucks condition last year. And Holder up until now has acted as if this was a non issue so i don't believe him wanting there to be more to it is an accurate statement.

[GoColts8818]

This tells me there is more truth to this https://www.all22.com/indianapolis-colts/understanding-andrew-lucks-shoulder-injury than the Colts would like to admit.

[BCoop]

5 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

 

Except, they didn't say from the get go they had a plan in place. They said it 3 days before the start of the regular season.  The get go would have been day 1 of camp, and it would have easily erased much of the questions the Colts are getting.   But, the Colts wait until he starts missing practices before they say anything and then wonder why people are questioning them.  The same team who hid things about Lucks condition last year. And Holder up until now has acted as if this was a non issue so i don't believe him wanting there to be more to it is an accurate statement.

 

 

It's also not the coaching staff's responsibility to make sure they inform the media and fans of practice plans exactly when they want to hear it. They made the announcement about Luck being limited on the 2nd day of practice in week 1. They addressed it almost immediately after the plan went into effect.

 

Ask yourself, what team/coach in the league would have come out before the first week of practice to warn fans that Luck will be limited each week this season? I can't think of a single one because any coaching staff worth their weight isn't going to care what fans/media think. They're going to run their team the way they see fit.

 

 

[Chucklez]

40 minutes ago, Jim H. said:

Good thing Andrew has an Engineering Degree.

*Architectural degree

[indy1888]

 

8 minutes ago, BCoop said:

 

 

It's also not the coaching staff's responsibility to make sure they inform the media and fans of practice plans exactly when they want to hear it. They made the announcement about Luck being limited on the 2nd day of practice in week 1. They addressed it almost immediately after the plan went into effect.

 

Ask yourself, what team/coach in the league would have come out before the first week of practice to warn fans that Luck will be limited each week this season? I can't think of a single one because any coaching staff worth their weight isn't going to care what fans/media think. They're going to run their team the way they see fit.

 

 

 

Never said it was there responsibility, simply said they did not address this from the get go or day 1 like you and the other guy implied. Day 1 is in camp, not days before there first game. Have they even admitted that there is an issue at all? Clearly, there is. 

[indy1888]

16 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

This tells me there is more truth to this https://www.all22.com/indianapolis-colts/understanding-andrew-lucks-shoulder-injury than the Colts would like to admit.

 

Clearly. And the Colts will admit to nothing, we know that. Grigson already denied it a few weeks ago. 

[BCoop]

Just now, indy1888 said:

 

 

Never said it was there responsibility, simply said they did not address this from the get go or day 1 like you and the other guy implied. Day 1 is in camp, not days before there first game. Have they even admitted that there is an issue at all? Clearly, there is. 

 

You're being a bit literal with the "Day 1" line. Day 1 technically would have been back in the offseason when they came up with the plan, but that wouldn't have been an appropriate time to release a statement on it. Neither is the beginning of camp when the plan isn't going in to place for another 4 weeks. They addressed it at a time when it was relevant and necessary.

 

I really don't understand why people are complaining. This should all be expected at this point.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

"The Colts may be a little gun-shy; injury statistics kept by Football Outsiders have shown them to be one of the teams hurt the most over the last decade in terms of Adjusted Games Lost"

That sucks

[jameszeigler834]

2 hours ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Andrew Luck was held out of yesterday's practice due to 'shoulder soreness', though both he and Chud are adamant he'll be our starter come Sunday.

 

I thought Luck hurt his shoulder last year in pre-season and he didn't seem right throwing the ball most of last year.  He looked very sharp week 1, but last week there were a few throws that were high or just off target (including the pick 6 by Talib).  He was on the injury report with a shoulder....

 

Is anyone else concerned about this?

 

To me, there could be a number of reasons for his high throws -- one being the amount of pressure he faces, he might be throwing high in hopes of avoiding tipped/batted down balls and two being arm fatigue/soreness.

 

It sounds like he will start, and I hope I'm overreacting, but to me it seemed like he had shoulder issues last year (and to my knowledge, never had any sort of medical procedures done to correct it).  With >1/2 the year off to rest last year, plus a full off-season, I am a bit worried that he is sitting out of practices with shoulder soreness prior to week 3 of his 5th season.  If he were a 12 year vet or if this was week 14, I would be less worried.

 

 

*I didn't see any other posts about this, which was surprising, so mods, please merge if a thread already exists on this topic.

If he looks like crap again this week then I would say yes there might be a problem but I think the off target passes were Denvers defense ore than anything. Also the pick 6 play wasn't an off target pass it was a great play by Talib it was going to go right to Hilton but Talib jumped in front of Hilton to make the play nobody's fault.