The Grigson / Pagano saga (merged)

[Ryan Pelley]

If Pagano stays... and the team continues the usual "bad outside of the division" trend. Eek.

[DougDew]

Rick Venturi pretty much said what I thought....about 2 seconds after I read it. Kravitz   wrote:

 

According to sources, assistant coaches would suggest to Pagano that he try something, only to have Pagano respond, "We can’t do that." He never pointed at Grigson, but everybody knew the score.

 

Venturi said that it sounded like Pagano just didn't want to tell the coach that he himself didn't like the suggestion.

 

IOW..that the "suggestion box" that's placed in the lunch room is typically full of really stupid suggestions, but the manager doesn't put it that way and says the decisions not to use them is a matter of policy.

[Swan Ronson]

Nothing wrong with being a Marxist.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Swan Ronson said:

Nothing wrong with being a Marxist.

Unless you live in the USA

[hawkeyes]

IF what we have heard about Grigs controlling everything Pags did I bet that the meeting was pretty heated!

 

Wish we would fire Grigs and keep Pags!   Heck he is 41-23 fighting Grigs destruction the entire way...

[TD]

1 hour ago, BOTT said:

You are a mean person 

No, just honest.  Didn't mean to offend but don't mean to be battered either.

[BOTT]

2 minutes ago, TD said:

No, just honest.  Didn't mean to offend but don't mean to be battered either.

If you actually believe the Colts oline is better than the Cowboys you deserve it.

[BOTT]

1 hour ago, Ryan Pelley said:

If Pagano stays... and the team continues the usual "bad outside of the division" trend. Eek.

Just surround Chuck with a great offensive coordinator,  great defensive coordinator, a great Oline coach, a different replay specialist,  a when to go for it specialist, a time management specialist and a speech therapist.....super bowl

[TD]

Just now, BOTT said:

If you actually believe the Colts oline is better than the Cowboys you deserve it.

Is not what I said.  I said I'd rather stand behind them than the Oline of Dallas.  Either one will get you killed, but at least I'd go down with guys in front of me that were really trying.  The Colt's Oline lack of talent isn't their fault, nor is it the coaches.  They were hired by a GM not the coach.  Look I don't like Grigson decisions as to what was important during the acquisition process.  He failed miserably for reasons that may not have been completely in his control, but none the less we're here banging heads when no head banging is called for.  It's like arguing over the chicken or the egg thing.  We don't get to say, but Irsay will and he's pretty smart on such things.

[TD]

4 minutes ago, BOTT said:

Just surround Chuck with a great offensive coordinator,  great defensive coordinator, a great Oline coach, a different replay specialist,  a when to go for it specialist, a time management specialist and a speech therapist.....super bowl

Funny stuff....sarcastic, but funny.  And, you know what?  If you give him that stuff you're right... Super Bowl!

[MTC]

Ryan Grigson

+ Vontae Davis trade

+ TY Hilton, Mewhort, Allen/Fleener, Parry, Anderson, Good, Moncrief

+ Mike Adams, Matt Hasselbeck, and Frank Gore

+ TY McGill trade

 

- Trent Richardson for a 1st round pick

- McGlynn, Satele, Cole, Herremans, AJ, Jones, Cherlius, Toler, Butler signings

- Adongo experiment

- Drafting Werner

- Josh Cribbs

 

[TD]

6 minutes ago, MTC said:

Ryan Grigson

+ Vontae Davis trade

+ TY Hilton, Mewhort, Allen/Fleener, Parry, Anderson, Good, Moncrief

+ Mike Adams, Matt Hasselbeck, and Frank Gore

+ TY McGill trade

 

- Trent Richardson for a 1st round pick

- McGlynn, Satele, Cole, Herremans, AJ, Jones, Cherlius, Toler, Butler signings

- Adongo experiment

- Drafting Werner

- Josh Cribbs

 

Did he pick any of the Cheerleaders?  That too would be a +

[TD]

2 minutes ago, TD said:

Did he pick any of the Cheerleaders?  That too would be a +

Oh and on the - Side would be those he didn't pick.

-Right Offensive Tackle

-Right Offensive Guard

-Center

-Left Offensive Guard

-Left Offensive Tackle

 

Sometimes its not what you do bad or good, but what you didn't do that matters.

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, MTC said:

Ryan Grigson

+ Vontae Davis trade

+ TY Hilton, Mewhort, Allen/Fleener, Parry, Anderson, Good, Moncrief

+ Mike Adams, Matt Hasselbeck, and Frank Gore

+ Walden Signing

+ TY McGill trade

 

- Trent Richardson for a 1st round pick

- McGlynn, Satele, Cole, Herremans, AJ, Jones, Cherlius, Toler, Butler signings

- Landry Signing

- Adongo experiment

- Drafting Werner

- Josh Cribbs

 

A level headed list void of emotion or ideology...congrats.  I added Walden and Landry.

 

The Jones signing was likely supported by Pagano, and injury has played a part.

Butler is actually a good signing.  He is a decent slot corner. Whenever he gets burned, its because he's playing out of position and playing on the outside.

 

All of the FA signings are easily cuttable.  Only marginal players agree to those types of contracts in the first place. 

[Huntress60]

Grigson and Pagano do not get along.  Grigson chooses the players and expects Chuck to be some kind of magician. It is sad that the coach has no input in the player decision making process. Jim has a tough decision to make that could cost him Luck in the free agency if he picks the wrong person.  From the season ticket holders, the fan forums, sports writer, and those who staff Lucas Oil it is yes to Pagano and no to Grigson.  

[rockywoj]

 

12 minutes ago, Huntress60 said:

Grigson and Pagano do not get along.  Grigson chooses the players and expects Chuck to be some kind of magician. It is sad that the coach has no input in the player decision making process. Jim has a tough decision to make that could cost him Luck in the free agency if he picks the wrong person.  From the season ticket holders, the fan forums, sports writer, and those who staff Lucas Oil it is yes to Pagano and no to Grigson.  

 

I simply cannot buy the wildly popular notion at these forums that coach Pagano has no input into the player decision making process.  I have seen zero evidence that such is anything more than unsubstantiated hearsay.

 

Perhaps somewhat unrelated, I recall watching a coach Dungy interview years ago and he was discussing being at the draft, in a room with Polian and Irsay trying to decide on what player to select, I believe it was 1st round of the 2003 draft.   Dungy and Polian were debating the virtues of several players and Tony then asked of Irsay which player he is leaning toward.  Dungy says Irsay said Dallas Clark.  Dungy said, with a chuckle, that he then told Irsay we should take Dallas Clark.  Hopefully that is an accurate recollection of the story.

 

I think the point is, especially at the draft, that it's very likely that Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, and the scouting staff, are ALL there making the decisions TOGETHER.  I am just totally dubious about these claims of Grigson unilaterally dictating who is drafted and who is signed as FAs, as so many here at the forum postulate.  Such postulations actually strike me as nonsensical, to be perfectly honest. 

[coltsva]

I would think it's very likely that the guys from the University of Miami and the Ravens were Pagano acquisitions, and the guys from the Eagles were Grigson acquisitions. The rest would have been jointly agreed upon. Just guessing, like everyone else here. 

[GoColts8818]

2 hours ago, MTC said:

Ryan Grigson

+ Vontae Davis trade

+ TY Hilton, Mewhort, Allen/Fleener, Parry, Anderson, Good, Moncrief

+ Mike Adams, Matt Hasselbeck, and Frank Gore

+ TY McGill trade

 

- Trent Richardson for a 1st round pick

- McGlynn, Satele, Cole, Herremans, AJ, Jones, Cherlius, Toler, Butler signings

- Adongo experiment

- Drafting Werner

- Josh Cribbs

 

Freeman and Jackson have both been good MLBers and need to be +s as well.  Also while his free agent record has been ad in terms of who he has brought in it's bee spot on in terms who he has let walk and kept. 

 

I wouldn't ding him for the Adongo thing or the Cribbs thing.  Adongo rarely played and rarely even took up a roster spot.  There was nothing lost by letting him hang out on the practice squad and seeing if they could develop him into something.  As for Cribbs he was here less than a year and it's not like they had some stud kick returner they released to make room for him.  They needed one and took a shot on him.  He gave them good results when he got here but tried too hard to make plays in the playoffs and the Colts didn't bring him back.  I wouldn't really call that a huge mistake and it's not nearly as bad as some of his free agency pick ups or trading a first for Trent or spending a first on Werner. 

 

I'd also list Landry or RJF over Butler and Jones in terms of his bad signings.  Butler has been a very good nickel corner for the Colts since he got here.  He's just not a number two which is when he gets exposed. As for Jones it's not Grigson's fault he got hurt. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

A level headed list void of emotion or ideology...congrats.  I added Walden and Landry.

 

The Jones signing was likely supported by Pagano, and injury has played a part.

Butler is actually a good signing.  He is a decent slot corner. Whenever he gets burned, its because he's playing out of position and playing on the outside.

 

All of the FA signings are easily cuttable.  Only marginal players agree to those types of contracts in the first place. 

Walden has been a pretty good player for the Colts since he got here. However, he does embody what's wrong with Pagano with his stupid penalties.  Those are the things that if they happen once should never happen again.  It shows he's not disciplined and repeats mistakes over and over again which has been my main problem with Pagano. 

[DougDew]

40 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Walden has been a pretty good player for the Colts since he got here. However, he does embody what's wrong with Pagano with his stupid penalties.  Those are the things that if they happen once should never happen again.  It shows he's not disciplined and repeats mistakes over and over again which has been my main problem with Pagano. 

BBBBBBut...I thought Grigson makes disciplinary decisions.  If you believe the ideological haters...like Kravitz and his constituents, Grigson is forcing Pagano to play Walden....over WERNER

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, rockywoj said:

 

 

I simply cannot buy the wildly popular notion at these forums that coach Pagano has no input into the player decision making process.  I have seen zero evidence that such is anything more than unsubstantiated hearsay.

 

Perhaps somewhat unrelated, I recall watching a coach Dungy interview years ago and he was discussing being at the draft, in a room with Polian and Irsay trying to decide on what player to select, I believe it was 1st round of the 2003 draft.   Dungy and Polian were debating the virtues of several players and Tony then asked of Irsay which player he is leaning toward.  Dungy says Irsay said Dallas Clark.  Dungy said, with a chuckle, that he then told Irsay we should take Dallas Clark.  Hopefully that is an accurate recollection of the story.

 

I think the point is, especially at the draft, that it's very likely that Irsay, Grigson, Pagano, and the scouting staff, are ALL there making the decisions TOGETHER.  I am just totally dubious about these claims of Grigson unilaterally dictating who is drafted and who is signed as FAs, as so many here at the forum postulate.  Such postulations actually strike me as nonsensical, to be perfectly honest. 

Yes. The Dallas Clark story is accurate.  And Irsay was in the room.  The war room is not just Grigson dressed up in an Army General's uniform keeping everybody else out.  Yes. the postulations are incredibly nonsensical

 

In Pags/Grigs first year, the Colts drafted Dwayne Allen as a consolation prize because GB took CB Casey Hayward just above our pick (62nd pick).  Reportedly, Pagano was mad because GB took the player that he and Grigson were targeting with the first pick of the third round.  IOW, they collaborated.  They drafted DA because he was clearly BPA then.  However, I'm sure there are disagreements in every NFL war room.

 

BTW: This is why I think the Colts will go after Hayward this spring if he is available.

[Bird dog]

8 hours ago, Dustin said:

@ACwishtv  1m1 minute ago

I just saw #Colts owner Jim Irsay just arrive to complex. @WISH_TV #ColtsWatch8

Wake up little Dusty Chuck has been crowned king!

[DougDew]

KRAVITZ

 

DOYEL

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

BBBBBBut...I thought Grigson makes disciplinary decisions.  If you believe the ideological haters...like Kravitz and his constituents, Grigson is forcing Pagano to play Walden....over WERNER

Yeah I've never made that argument.  I've said all along one of my main problems with Pagano is that his teams lack discipline and it shows up with things like penalties and turnovers. 

 

[Chucklez]

11 hours ago, TD said:

Oh and on the - Side would be those he didn't pick.

-Right Offensive Tackle

-Right Offensive Guard

-Center

-Left Offensive Guard

-Left Offensive Tackle

 

Sometimes its not what you do bad or good, but what you didn't do that matters.

Uhm.......He did draft Mewhort, Holmes and Good... they qualify for three of those criteria...

I didnt say they were all good drafts, but they did get drafted...

[sfergson727]

Well, for one, I am disgusted.  The biggest loser is Luck, and the second biggest loser is us fans.  More mediocrity and sloppy play coming to Indy.  I hope Andrew survives......

[lollygagger8]

I woke up today thinking that this was all a dream, but I'm still......

 

 

 

 

[amfootball]

The Indy media - Doyle and Kravitz should be embarrassed and making apologies to the fanbase for their last 4 months of bogus reporting and editorializing.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Uhm.......He did draft Mewhort, Holmes and Good... they qualify for three of those criteria...

I didnt say they were all good drafts, but they did get drafted...

And I always feel like I'm defending him, which is not my intent.  He should not be criticized for not drafting a Left Tackle, because he didn't have too, AC was already here.  So, including Thornton, he drafted a LG,C,RG,RT, and re-signed Reitz.  Although giving him credit for drafting a RT with Good is a bit of a stretch at this point, IMO.

[TD]

2 hours ago, Chucklez said:

Uhm.......He did draft Mewhort, Holmes and Good... they qualify for three of those criteria...

I didnt say they were all good drafts, but they did get drafted...

I wonder where they will be playing next year.  **grin**

[Chucklez]

25 minutes ago, TD said:

I wonder where they will be playing next year.  **grin**

I know that comment was a bit tongue-in-cheek but Mewhort and Good will certainly be playing with the Colts next year... I wouldnt be surprised if Holmes was retained as well..