Arthur Jones Injury Status (Merge)

[Superman]

Say what you want about Grigson but you cant deny that the FA contracts given out have been very team friendly long term.

 

Yeah, that's very obvious. If only we could get more out of these players in the short term. RJF wasn't bad, but he's gone. Landry was a bum. Cherilus and Thomas had significant injury issues. Walden and Toler have been just what they were supposed to be. 

 

That 2013 offseason was bad. Add in Werner and Richardson, and getting rid of Hughes, and the limited return so far from the other draft picks, and ouch. On that basis alone, Grigson deserves some serious criticism. But I think he's been much better since, and I think 2012 was still really strong. Let's see how we look in 2015.

[Colts_Fan12]

That's convenient, now that Brown hasn't been all that impressive. I'm pretty sure your "arguments" referred to Brown quite often.

Anyway, that's perfect, too. That's just what the Colts needed, another undersized ILB.

I still would have been more pleased with brown then a 3rd WR but I wanted Kendricks over everyone then prolly Donovan Smith after him

[Gavin]

That's convenient, now that Brown hasn't been all that impressive. I'm pretty sure your "arguments" referred to Brown quite often.

Anyway, that's perfect, too. That's just what the Colts needed, another undersized ILB.

Chris Borland was undersized as well...Not to mention he was thought to have short arms...That sure did not hinder his ability. If Kendricks can master a spin move to avoid getting blocked he will do well, That's why OUR ILB's can struggle, They have little to no moves to get off the block, Kendricks takes better angles usually then any of our ILB's so I don't think he will be blocked as often

[TKnight24]

Anyone know how long he expected to miss after surgery on ligaments in his ankle ? Is that a IR to return or is he going to be shutdown for the year ?

Won't know until probably later on this month. All depends on rehab process

[12dalegend]

Yes, because it's stupid. Not only did we likely get a better player than Brown in the first round, we very likely got a better player than him, at his position, in the 3rd. Anderson also happens to be a much better scheme fit than Brown.

Stanford Smart, can move around, some analysts "the ones that played the sport"  liked Anderson over Brown because heʻs more motivated and playbook smart, I say start him in place of Jones and letʻs see if they were right  

[TKnight24]

I wanted Kendricks at 29?

I wanted a QB, that Andrew Luck kid stinks! Him and his beard!

[TKnight24]

Stanford Smart, can move around, some analysts "the ones that played the sport" liked Anderson over Brown because heʻs more motivated and playbook smart, I say start him in place of Jones and letʻs see if they were right

Stanford arguably breeds the smartest players

Richard Sherman

Andrew Luck

Trent Murphy (Redskins OLB)

Among others

Their defense is usually under the radar but they have some studs. And looks like we pulled 2 off this draft with Parry & Anderson

[ColtsLegacy]

Chris Borland was undersized as well...Not to mention he was thought to have short arms...That sure did not hinder his ability. If Kendricks can master a spin move to get avoid getting blocked he will do well, That's why OUR ILB's can struggle, They have little to no moves to get off the block, Kendricks takes better angles usually then any of our ILB's so I don't think he will be blocked as often

Chris Borland is short but no where near small.

[Superman]

Chris Borland was undersized as well...Not to mention he was thought to have short arms...That sure did not hinder his ability. If Kendricks can master a spin move to avoid getting blocked he will do well, That's why OUR ILB's can struggle, They have little to no moves to get off the block, Kendricks takes better angles usually then any of our ILB's so I don't think he will be blocked as often

 

Both ILBs are beating blockers at the second level right now with a swim move. Just have to tackle better.

[Gavin]

Chris Borland is short but no where near small.

Right, He was bigger then Freeman but only 8 lbs heavier, He is more skilled at getting off blocks then Freeman

[ColtsLegacy]

I still would have been more pleased with brown then a 3rd WR but I wanted Kendricks over everyone then prolly Donovan Smith after him

Donovan Smith looks like Andre Smith and I don't mean in his play . . .

He looks so out of shape and I've seen him get beat numerous times for the Bucs. I have about as much faith in him as I do Good.

If you'd still trade Dorsett for Brown after what we know now, then you're just being stubborn.

[ColtsLegacy]

Right, He was bigger then Freeman but only 8 lbs heavier, He is more skilled at getting off blocks then Freeman

Yes, he was just a fantastic player all around. Plus, Kendricks is closer to 230 (compared to Borland 248), that is undersized for a 3-4 ILB.

[NewColtsFan]

Only because the DT position was not deep, Casserly even said on espn before draft he was unsure because of the deep WRʻs class and if it was up to him he would go best player available so that is exactly what the Colts did 

 

Again......   

 

Since you made the claim,  I'm asking for anything that supports the claim.

 

Who called Malcom Brown a 3rd round draft pick?   

 

Or....

 

Who predicted he'd go in the 3rd round?

[Superman]

Donovan Smith looks like Andre Smith and I don't mean in his play . . .

 

 

 

Yiiiip-yip-yip-yip-yip

[Colts_Fan12]

Donovan Smith looks like Andre Smith and I don't mean in his play . . .

He looks so out of shape and I've seen him get beat numerous times for the Bucs. I have about as much faith in him as I do Good.

If you'd still trade Dorsett for Brown after what we know now, then you're just being stubborn.

so because Brown isn't great in preseason he's a bad player? He can't develop

[ColtsLegacy]

so because Brown isn't great in preseason he's a bad player? He can't develop

Sure he can and so can Dorsett and Anderson who've been much better players thus far.

Plus, the fact that Brown is struggling vs backups suggests he likely won't be much of an impact this year. I believe the argument for why we needed Brown, in the first place, was so we could stop the run this year (specifically the Pats).

People who wanted Brown were strictly thinking short term and ignoring that we got much better value in our first and, especially, third rounder (and both look to be better short term, too).

[dw49]

They haven't gotten their money's worth so far, that's for sure. But that's no one's fault, just the way the cookie crumbles. But yeah, the Colts haven't done any contracts that would hurt the cap significantly. The closest is Cherilus, and that was compounded by the salary rule adjustment. Oh well. Whether they keep Jones or not, the Colts cap is fine, and will continue to be fine.

 

 

They didn't get their moneys worth but it's hard to do that when he was 100% for probably 1 game last year and will miss this year. Looked like a pretty good signing but as you say , the cookie crumbled very badly . Happens..

[12dalegend]

Again......   

 

Since you made the claim,  I'm asking for anything that supports the claim.

 

Who called Malcom Brown a 3rd round draft pick?   

 

Or....

 

Who predicted he'd go in the 3rd round?

Antonio Pierce, Damian Woody and Ryan Clark on espn w Jay Crawford and Casserly, but as you can plainly see he was not worth the pick by the way heʻs been playing and most analysts boost these players up because theyʻre probably getting a little something extra from these players agent but real analysts like mainly the 1st 3 I mention, Iʻll take theyʻre word even over Casserly and most others....still trying to find that clip though but no such luck yet

[12dalegend]

Again......   

 

Since you made the claim,  I'm asking for anything that supports the claim.

 

Again......   

 

Since you made the claim,  I'm asking for anything that supports the claim.

 

Who called Malcom Brown a 3rd round draft pick?   

 

Or....

 

Who predicted he'd go in the 3rd round?

Ok theyʻre not Draft analysts but NFL analysts but they should be doing the draft nonetheless, but they were right not worth a 1st or 2nd

Who called Malcom Brown a 3rd round draft pick?   

 

Or....

 

Who predicted he'd go in the 3rd round?

[ColtsBlueFL]

Anyone know how long he expected to miss after surgery on ligaments in his ankle ?  Is that a IR to return or is he going to be shutdown for the year ?

 

Too many variables to predict for sure, and it also depends on type of reconstruction surgery employed. Rehabilitation is criterion based progression. Specific time frames, restrictions and precautions are given to protect healing tissues and the surgical repair/reconstruction. Phase 1 goes up to week 6. Phase 2 after week 6. Phase 3 after phase 2, usually 10-12 weeks.  Phase 4 rehab often begins 14-16 weeks after surgery.  Full recovery can take up to month 5 or 6 through one year.

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

They didn't get their moneys worth but it's hard to do that when he was 100% for probably 1 game last year and will miss this year. Looked like a pretty good signing but as you say , the cookie crumbled very badly . Happens..

 

Yes.  Art Jones is to Grigson as Corey Simon was to Bill Polian. Big FA signings with promise that turned into unmitigated disasters. (Jones scene appears more innocent the Simon's)  It sent Bill Polian away from signing FA's the rest of his Colts GM career.  Not sure how Grigson will respond in the future.  Here's our Defense line drafts and signings after the 'Simon curse' under B.P.-

 

2006 Corey Simon placed on NFI status

 

2006 Montae Reagor involved in car accident going to the Colts football game (the same game where Redskins hurt Peyton's neck)

2007 draft Quinn Pitcock in 3rd (dropped out after 1 year.)

2007 draft Keyunta Dawson in 7th

2008 draft no DT's

2009 draft Fili Moala in 2nd

2009 draft Terrance Taylor in 4th round

2010 draft no DT's

2011 draft Drake Nevis in the 3rd

*******************************************

DE's

2008 Marcus Howard round 5

2010 Jerry Hughes Round 1

2010 Ricardo Mathews Round 7

 

So B. Polian didn't have much more luck in the draft either, IMO.

[NewColtsFan]

Antonio Pierce, Damian Woody and Ryan Clark on espn w Jay Crawford and Casserly, but as you can plainly see he was not worth the pick by the way heʻs been playing and most analysts boost these players up because theyʻre probably getting a little something extra from these players agent but real analysts like mainly the 1st 3 I mention, Iʻll take theyʻre word even over Casserly and most others....still trying to find that clip though but no such luck yet

 

I'm sorry.....   you're new and I feel like I'm giving you a hard time and I really don't mean to.

 

But my job allows me to watch more TV than most anyone here.    I also spent 30 years working in the media, 25 of those in television and nearly 20 of those years covering sports.

 

None of the threesome of Antonio Pierce, Damien Woody or Ryan Clark are draft analysts.   They don't offer opinions on college players,   so I'm confident when I say you're mistaken.    They talk about NFL players.    They would not call Malcom Brown a 3rd round player.   

 

As for Brown not being great so far and therefor that proves he wasn't worth a 1st round pick,  but I'm sorry again,  but that's not how the draft works.    Plenty of players are not great in their rookie year.    That's far more common than not.    Lots of rookies need time to adjust to the speed, size, and skill of the NFL game.    That's quite common.    That's why GM's and coaches always note that the biggest jump in player performance comes between year 1 and year 2.     That's not even a new theory,  it's an old theory.

 

Again,  I'm sorry to be giving you a hard time here.   I want you to enjoy the website and posting here.   The draft is a passion of mine.    Been a passion for me for way more than 40 years now.    I know it well and covered it professionally for many years.

 

My apologies that this exchange is our first.....    I'm sure there will be better exchanges between us in the future.....

 

EDIT NOTE:   A late add.....   I just double-checked NFL.com....   they track all of their own mock drafts done by all of their experts....    here is the last one done by a number of their scouts and experts, including Casserly.      Click on my link and you'll see that Casserly has Malcom Brown going 21st overall in the 1st round to Cincinnati.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2015/mock-drafts?icampaign=draft-sub_nav_bar-drafteventpage-mockdraft

[akcolt]

Henry Anderson > Malcom Brown

Parry might end up being better than Brown too.

 

Grig's takes a lot of undue criticism on the board IMO. The guy has totally flipped the roster since he took over in 2012. We have 5 players left from that roster and 2 are kickers. Then Mathis Castonzo and Reitz. Every other player Grig's has brought on board. The guy has to have gotten it right a couple of times at least. We have made the playoffs every year and gone a step farther each time.

 

Excluding his work in 2013 his drafts have been very solid.  If we can get Holmes to hold down the C position Hughes to step up and Thorton to come around it might save a little face for the 2013 train wreck. I always felt like we should have kept Williams around at RB/KR as well. It is almost like we have something against fast RB's. Werner and Trent will haunt 2013 forever.  

 

Jones is a loss but we have the depth on D Line to overcome it. Hughes was the guy who replaced him immediately in the game then Anderson came along. I think Hughes could get first crack at it.

[Superman]

Parry might end up being better than Brown too.

 

Grig's takes a lot of undue criticism on the board IMO. The guy has totally flipped the roster since he took over in 2012. We have 5 players left from that roster and 2 are kickers. Then Mathis Castonzo and Reitz. Every other player Grig's has brought on board. The guy has to have gotten it right a couple of times at least. We have made the playoffs every year and gone a step farther each time.

 

Excluding his work in 2013 his drafts have been very solid.  If we can get Holmes to hold down the C position Hughes to step up and Thorton to come around it might save a little face for the 2013 train wreck. I always felt like we should have kept Williams around at RB/KR as well. It is almost like we have something against fast RB's. Werner and Trent will haunt 2013 forever.  

 

Jones is a loss but we have the depth on D Line to overcome it. Hughes was the guy who replaced him immediately in the game then Anderson came along. I think Hughes could get first crack at it.

 

Williams wasn't as fast as we thought. I remember being unimpressed with his speed, particularly as a returner. That's neither here nor there.

 

Grigson has had some bad acquisitions. Satele and McGlynn were awful. But overall, changing the entire roster in three years and still having a winning program, it's not just about having a QB. It's not that easy.

 

But now is the really hard part. Going from plucky upstart to perennial contender, and being good enough to go all the way, you don't get credit for trying hard. Either you do it, or you don't.

[dw49]

Yes.  Art Jones is to Grigson as Corey Simon was to Bill Polian. Big FA signings with promise that turned into unmitigated disasters. (Jones scene appears more innocent the Simon's)  It sent Bill Polian away from signing FA's the rest of his Colts GM career.  Not sure how Grigson will respond in the future.  Here's our Defense line drafts and signings after the 'Simon curse' under B.P.-

 

2006 Corey Simon placed on NFI status

 

2006 Montae Reagor involved in car accident going to the Colts football game (the same game where Redskins hurt Peyton's neck)

2007 draft Quinn Pitcock in 3rd (dropped out after 1 year.)

2007 draft Keyunta Dawson in 7th

2008 draft no DT's

2009 draft Fili Moala in 2nd

2009 draft Terrance Taylor in 4th round

2010 draft no DT's

2011 draft Drake Nevis in the 3rd

*******************************************

DE's

2008 Marcus Howard round 5

2010 Jerry Hughes Round 1

2010 Ricardo Mathews Round 7

 

So B. Polian didn't have much more luck in the draft either, IMO.

 

 

Cory Simon was IMO a really bad sign as Polian filled his pockets with dough after he gained what looked to be about 100 Lbs. He was so far out of shape and also appeared to have lost his desire for the game. 

 

Polian really did stink up the D line after that signing but most of his drafts the last 5 years were just  bad. I'm too tired got go back and look at them as its 3 AM here but it very much coincides with him promoting his kid.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Cory Simon was IMO a really bad sign as Polian filled his pockets with dough after he gained what looked to be about 100 Lbs. He was so far out of shape and also appeared to have lost his desire for the game. 

 

Polian really did stink up the D line after that signing but most of his drafts the last 5 years were just  bad. I'm too tired got go back and look at them as its 3 AM here but it very much coincides with him promoting his kid.

 

Not only did it ruin Polian from using FA to help the D line, Simon's pay was rescinded when the Colts placed him on NFI status, but then it was challenged by Simon.  So all that cap space was still tied up further hampering the ability to acquire replacements to help.  I just hope Grigson doesn't panic with the unfortunate situation of Art Jones and will trust his and scouting teams ability to determine talent that fits the program and will pull the trigger to get it as necessary.  Even if I do agree that the draft is the best way to develop and feed a great team.

[will426]

Frank Gore is one of the MOST durable backs in NFL history. If he gets hurt this year and misses weeks, I'm convinced it's the training staff or we're cursed

THIS BY FAR and as much as I hate to say it I see it coming I believe our staff is just horrible it's been about a decade of us having about the most injured players in the league and we always seem to lose the star players or the ones with great potential

[Jackie Daytona]

Cory Simon was IMO a really bad sign as Polian filled his pockets with dough after he gained what looked to be about 100 Lbs. He was so far out of shape and also appeared to have lost his desire for the game. 

 

Polian really did stink up the D line after that signing but most of his drafts the last 5 years were just  bad. I'm too tired got go back and look at them as its 3 AM here but it very much coincides with him promoting his kid.

 

Our defense was great with Corey Simon here.  He did an awesome job anchoring our Tampa 2 defense for the better part of a year.  Then he got hurt/lost his desire for the game.....  He was great when he got here, done when we went seperate ways.... and brought in Booger.  

[ColtsBlueFL]

Our defense was great with Corey Simon here.  He did an awesome job anchoring our Tampa 2 defense for the better part of a year.  Then he got hurt/lost his desire for the game.....  He was great when he got here, done when we went seperate ways.... and brought in Booger.  

 

Here's the enigma.  You and dw49 are both right.  Corey Simon helped a lot, so Colts fans thought he was great.  But he was no where near his pro-bowl capability he showed in Philly. Corey held out in Philly, and ate while holding out showing up to camp in Phill fat and out of shape.  It took him most of the year to play himself into game shape and back into pro-bowl form in 2004.  It was his worst season by far. He held out again in 2005, and Philly finally just cut him not being able to get anything in trade.

 

He must have ate again during that holdout as well, and when Polian signed him, he (a smaller, fast pass rusher before) ballooned to well over 300 lbs.  His season was even below the performance of 2004,  So his worst year was with us, and many Colts fan thought it was really good (if not great) production.  Philly fans know better. And of course, in 2006 Simon injured his knee and missed the entire preseason and the first four weeks of the regular season. Then, for reasons widely speculated but really unknown, (I still don't know) the Colts placed him on the non-football illness/injury list. It meant Corey could not play for the rest of the season and the Colts didn't have to pay him. Then Simon and the NFLPA fought that issue and held cap space in ransom.  It is more than rumor Polian lost LB Cato June to the Tampa Bucs at the end of 2006 because he couldn't match their deal, Simon's pay dispute being the culprit.

There is no question Polian regrets that signing, even to this day.  He admitted it soured him on all future FA signings as well-

"Mainly because we've made some big mistakes in the past, Corey Simon being the most obvious one," he said. "We've had a modicum of success in it, but not a lot. We just feel the odds are very much against you. It's not a criticism of anyone who does it, but just the way we do things. We're not good at it, so we stay away from things we're not good at."

That is why the draft and UDFA's seemed to be the favored method to replenish needs for many years under B.P.

[Jackie Daytona]

Whether Simon was less than his normal self when he signed in Indy or not, it was obvious our Defense with him WAS good ENOUGH when coupled with our offense to do special things......  because when he got hurt, whether due to being fat and overeating as you claim, or not..... we were clearly NOT good enough on defense to do special things,  It's irrelevant how much better he was in his Philly years.  when healthy he was what we needed.

[Jackie Daytona]

That said, yes, we paid a ton for Simon, and Bill P. is right, it didn't work out in the end.....especially when Simon went after the money after being shown the door

[dw49]

Our defense was great with Corey Simon here.  He did an awesome job anchoring our Tampa 2 defense for the better part of a year.  Then he got hurt/lost his desire for the game.....  He was great when he got here, done when we went seperate ways.... and brought in Booger.  

 

 

I didn't remember his good play when he first came over. Could very well be that I forgot as I just remember being astounded it was him when this huge , overweight guy too the field .

[Coffeedrinker]

the ones complaining about grigs, saying jones is a bum, and calling this a weak colts team

Ok and I can understand commenting to those folks.  Usually chicken little is reference to someone who is claiming that things are going to be very bad very soon (sky falling) not used when claiming that someone is not good at their job that is why I was confused.

 

Thanks for clarifying though.

[JPFolks]

 Grigson was supposed to know that Jones would tear ligaments in his ankle?  

Actually, in a way YES.  He should have known he was hurt all last season and did not play up to the lowest expectations and DONE SOMETHING to be SURE we had depth if it happened again.  Right now our only option is a Rookie and who exactly is backing HIM up?  We may be starting two rookies as it is... and if we have any more injuries, Luck will have to score 40 a game to win.  How do we stop the run now when even WITH Art Jones we were bad at it.  If fans screaming to sign Haloti or Wilfork and draft Malcolm Brown knew we needed help, how is it Grigson didn't know? On top of it our O-Line is paper thin and even if we have no injuries it is hard to suggest we're improved over last year.  Herremans doesn't look very good... we didn't go after Mathis and Louis looks awful.  He can't even figure out a snap count in a Pre-Season game 4 where he looked bad against scrubs.  So yes, Grigson should have a clue about the obvious.  

[JPFolks]

Absolutely he wanted ligaments torn in his ankle so he could have an "exit option", I mean, who wouldn't?

Nice try but it was AFTER the injury that this took place, not before.  But good job creating a straw man argument to change the focus from the subject.

Edited September 4, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[Jason_]

Actually, in a way YES.  He should have known he was hurt all last season and did not play up to the lowest expectations and DONE SOMETHING to be SURE we had depth if it happened again.  Right now our only option is a Rookie and who exactly is backing HIM up?  We may be starting two rookies as it is... and if we have any more injuries, Luck will have to score 40 a game to win.  How do we stop the run now when even WITH Art Jones we were bad at it.  If fans screaming to sign Haloti or Wilfork and draft Malcolm Brown knew we needed help, how is it Grigson didn't know? On top of it our O-Line is paper thin and even if we have no injuries it is hard to suggest we're improved over last year.  Herremans doesn't look very good... we didn't go after Mathis and Louis looks awful.  He can't even figure out a snap count in a Pre-Season game 4 where he looked bad against scrubs.  So yes, Grigson should have a clue about the obvious.  

 

Yeah...none of that has to do with the post of mine that you quoted. 

 

He should have known he was hurt all last season and did not play up to the lowest expectations and DONE SOMETHING to be SURE we had depth if it happened again

 

 

All of that happened AFTER Grigson signed Arthur Jones as a FA.  At this point, calling Jones "another FA bust by Grigson" is not at all true.

[Jason_]

Nice try but it was AFTER the injury that this took place, not before.  But good job creating a straw man argument to change the focus from the subject.  

 

Suggesting that Arthur Jones was looking for an exit strategy in order to not have to play is...pretty *ic.  

Edited September 4, 2015 by Superman

[JPFolks]

Yeah...none of that has to do with the post of mine that you quoted. 

It directly does, your denial doesn't change it. 

[Jason_]

It directly does, your denial doesn't change it. 

 

My comment was in direct response to another poster saying that Jones is another FA bust by Grigson.  So my comment, "Grigson was supposed to know that Jones would tear ligaments in his ankle?" was in reference to Grigson not being able to know that Jones would have ankle injuries his first 2 years with the Colts.  

 

Your reply to me talks about having a backup plan for THIS YEAR.  That has nothing to do with whether Grigson should or should not have known, prior to signing Jones on March 11, 2014, that Jones would suffer ankle injuries 2 years in a row.

 

BTW, we DO have depth on the DL this year....better depth than we've had since the regime change.  Just because the guy that has emerged as the next man up is a rookie does not mean that our depth is bad...it could simply mean that rookie is ahead of schedule in terms of development.  

[Dark Superman]

I really don't think he plays this year. Such a disappointment since he signed here.