What does the Bruce Arians two TE offense look like?.....

[YOUR GM]

I'll be the first to admit I was pretty disappointed when I found out the Colts hired Arians as OC. I'm not a fan of his work in Pittsburgh (playcalling had no continuity. Too in love with drawing up pretty formations & gadget plays) Also, while many like to credit him for the early development of Peyton Manning, we all know it was Tom Moore of nurtured Manning's talent here. All that being said, I've come to terms with the fact that he's now our new OC and I'm curious to know exactly how he plans to use both Fleener and Allen. Does anyone have any clips of the Steelers in their two TE sets that we can use for clues as to what we can expect?

(I ask this, knowing that the Steelers never had two TE's with as much talent as our new tandem is projected to have. I understand it probably won't look exactly like what he ran in Pittsburgh, but still... i'm curious)

[Captain Americolt]

I know they used Miller alot. Never heard of the other guy, whats his name? If he did use the 2 TE set alot in Pittsburgh, one probably blocks most of the time (allen) and the other goes for passes (fleener). Jmo

[Coffeedrinker]

I'll be the first to admit I was pretty disappointed when I found out the Colts hired Arians as OC. I'm not a fan of his work in Pittsburgh (playcalling had no continuity. Too in love with drawing up pretty formations & gadget plays) Also, while many like to credit him for the early development of Peyton Manning, we all know it was Tom Moore of nurtured Manning's talent here. All that being said, I've come to terms with the fact that he's now our new OC and I'm curious to know exactly how he plans to use both Fleener and Allen. Does anyone have any clips of the Steelers in their two TE sets that we can use for clues as to what we can expect?

(I ask this, knowing that the Steelers never had two TE's with as much talent as our new tandem is projected to have. I understand it probably won't look exactly like what he ran in Pittsburgh, but still... i'm curious)

I don't really have any clips but this is an interesting topic.

One I don't think you can dismiss Arians affect on Manning. I think Moore's system definitely played to his talents but Arians had to work with Manning to make the most out of that system.

Two. The OC can only do the offense the HC directs. Perhaps Tomlin didn't like the idea of a two TE set because it changes the dynamics of power running. Perhaps they wanted to run it but just didn't have the personnel.

Lastly. I have a feeling that Arian's two TE sets are going to be very similar to the Colts old two TE sets. Meaning that probably Fleener will be lined up on the LOS all the time and Allen being moved around and fulfilling more of that H-back role based on the defense.

I may change my mind after seeing some preseason games but I picture it this way. Picture Fleener in the role filled by Pollard and Allen in the role that Dilger played.

[NewEra]

Dilger was one of my favorties back then! really cool guy to, him and hunter smith.

[HtownColt]

steelers had Miller, Spaeth, David Johnson, and emanuel Saunders

his sets had one on the line one split out

both on the line

one as a H-back

three tight ends, one running back and one wide receiver(mostly in red zone)

Below I’ve found a chart on Steeler depot that shows the plays per game that the 3 Steeler tight ends participated in during the 2011 season. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 TOT AVG Heath Miller 56 65 66 50 58 55 62 76 56 67 59 54 53 63 50 69 959 60 David Johnson 12 38 27 25 41 30 37 22 16 33 23 32 30 11 31 20 428 27 Weslye Saunders 4 17 14 8 20 12 27 11 8 15 13 23 13 4 14 17 220 14 2 TE Formation 8 25 15 21 19 19 12 13 9 18 16 16 17 9 17 14 248 16 3 TE Formation 4 14 9 6 19 11 24 10 8 15 9 18 10 3 13 11 184 12

[FireJimCaldwell]

He rarely ran a 2 TE set last year. Far more 3WR & 4WR sets.

[bavanlan]

Lastly. I have a feeling that Arian's two TE sets are going to be very similar to the Colts old two TE sets. Meaning that probably Fleener will be lined up on the LOS all the time and Allen being moved around and fulfilling more of that H-back role based on the defense.

I may change my mind after seeing some preseason games but I picture it this way. Picture Fleener in the role filled by Pollard and Allen in the role that Dilger played.

I'm hoping it's closer to the Pollard/Clark sets than it is Dilger/Pollard, but that's just a personal preference.

[HtownColt]

steelers had Miller, Spaeth, David Johnson, and emanuel Saunders

his sets had one on the line one split out

both on the line

one as a H-back

three tight ends, one running back and one wide receiver(mostly in red zone)

Below I’ve found a chart on Steeler depot that shows the plays per game that the 3 Steeler tight ends participated in during the 2011 season. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 TOT AVG Heath Miller 56 65 66 50 58 55 62 76 56 67 59 54 53 63 50 69 959 60 David Johnson 12 38 27 25 41 30 37 22 16 33 23 32 30 11 31 20 428 27 Weslye Saunders 4 17 14 8 20 12 27 11 8 15 13 23 13 4 14 17 220 14 2 TE Formation 8 25 15 21 19 19 12 13 9 18 16 16 17 9 17 14 248 16 3 TE Formation 4 14 9 6 19 11 24 10 8 15 9 18 10 3 13 11 184 12

i dont understand how it came out like this

[HtownColt]

well here's the webpage that breaks down how many plays each tight end played per game. I expect the numbers to increase being that our 2nd tight end is more dynamic than theres

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/03/2012-steelers-roster-position-highlight-tight-end/

[buccolts]

Sometimes like this:

O OOOOOOO

O

O

O

Boy, that doesn't come out right after you post it, and now I can't remove this post.

So I'm sticking with it. Regardless of how stupid it looks

[Coffeedrinker]

I'm hoping it's closer to the Pollard/Clark sets than it is Dilger/Pollard, but that's just a personal preference.

Everybody has their preferences and I didn't say I would prefer it to look like Dilger/Pollard just that I think it will. I am curious as to why you want it more like Clark/Pollard though.

Dilger/Pollard's best year was in 2001 where they combined for 79 catches/1082 yards and 9 TDs.

In 2000 they had a combined 77 catches for 977 yards and 6 TDs.

Pollard/Clark only played together for two years. They had 69/881/4(2003) and then 54/732/11 (2004) the TDs were better in in 2004 like that.

If Luck/Fleener/Allen are 70% as productive as either combination this year, I will be happy.

[Tark The Shark]

I am not going to pretend to know what the Steelers ran because I don't like the Steelers and have no interest in watching them. But I imagine that they would use the TEs like the Patriots. With Fleener being like Gronk and used mostly and Dwayne Allen used like Hernandez. I see it like Polian saw it when he said that Fleener/Allen is like Clark/Pollard except with more athleticism.

[GrizzColt]

I don't think we should be worried about Arian's lack of continuity in play calling, because soon Luck will be reading the defense and calling his own plays.

[Stokes]

Here's a helpful article dealing with what the offense should look like this year with all of the new personnel and Arians:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1166161-forecasting-andrew-luck-and-the-indianapolis-colts-offense-next-season

Luck ran a 2 TE West Coast offense at Stanford and I'd expect our offense to look a lot like that. Having two big, athletic receiving TEs with the speed of Hilton and Avery should present match-up nightmares all over the field and Luck should be fairly comfortable exploiting them in a familiar system (although the talent and speed on the Defenses he's facing will be an adjustment). Also, Arians loves gadget plays and I think Hilton and Harnish fit that mold well.

Btw, this is my first post. Hello.

[Coffeedrinker]

Here's a helpful article dealing with what the offense should look like this year with all of the new personnel and Arians:

http://bleacherrepor...nse-next-season

Luck ran a 2 TE West Coast offense at Stanford and I'd expect our offense to look a lot like that. Having two big, athletic receiving TEs with the speed of Hilton and Avery should present match-up nightmares all over the field and Luck should be fairly comfortable exploiting them in a familiar system (although the talent and speed on the Defenses he's facing will be an adjustment). Also, Arians loves gadget plays and I think Hilton and Harnish fit that mold well.

Btw, this is my first post. Hello.

Nice find. And welcome to the board.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Here's a helpful article dealing with what the offense should look like this year with all of the new personnel and Arians:

http://bleacherrepor...nse-next-season

Luck ran a 2 TE West Coast offense at Stanford and I'd expect our offense to look a lot like that. Having two big, athletic receiving TEs with the speed of Hilton and Avery should present match-up nightmares all over the field and Luck should be fairly comfortable exploiting them in a familiar system (although the talent and speed on the Defenses he's facing will be an adjustment). Also, Arians loves gadget plays and I think Hilton and Harnish fit that mold well.

Btw, this is my first post. Hello.

Great 1st post.

[bavanlan]

Everybody has their preferences and I didn't say I would prefer it to look like Dilger/Pollard just that I think it will. I am curious as to why you want it more like Clark/Pollard though.

Dilger/Pollard's best year was in 2001 where they combined for 79 catches/1082 yards and 9 TDs.

In 2000 they had a combined 77 catches for 977 yards and 6 TDs.

Pollard/Clark only played together for two years. They had 69/881/4(2003) and then 54/732/11 (2004) the TDs were better in in 2004 like that.

If Luck/Fleener/Allen are 70% as productive as either combination this year, I will be happy.

Since about 2-3 boards ago I've been clamoring for dual legit receiving threats. While I like Dilger and his contributions to the offense (particularly in the run game), I'm a tremendous fan of offensive flexibility, especially when you have an intelligent QB like Manning or now Luck. Two legit receiving threats at TE, both short range and downfield, provide the maximum flexibility for a QB to run the most sets and to find the set most likely to succeed at any point in time without changing personnel.

I think the Pollard/Clark combination provided more flexibility than Pollard/Dilger.

[21isSuperman]

Did the Steelers ever have 2 good TEs? I know Miller was always reliable, but did they have a 2nd really good TE?

From what I've read about Arians in Pittsburgh, he loved 5 WR sets and bubble screens. With that said, we have the personnel for a different offense than 5 WR sets, so we'll see how it goes. I wasn't too excited about his hiring either, but he did help develop Peyton and Tom Moore himself even said he's an excellent coach and that Luck and the Colts offense is in good hands

[mystrymaster]

we could go 5 wide with our Ace personnel. that would be awesome bubble screen to brown behind two tight ends in space? drool.

[CR91]

i just want arians to be creative. 5 wr sets, two te sets, collie and hilton in the slot with reggie and avery outside and fleener on the line. something along those lines

[chad72]

Selling play action to those LBs with ACE personnel (2 WR, 2 TE) will be easier than with POSSE (3 WR, 1 TE). Using ACE personnel might help us control tempo more even if it means shorter completions, thus keeping our D fresh.

Make them pay with a lot of TE completions. Once they start paying extra attention to the receiving TE rolling help towards him, that is when we run the trademark "Indy" route, the one we ran where DC took the help to the outside and vacated the middle while Garcon came across and oops, dropped the ball with a lot of field in front of him. Yep, that classic SB drop, I am talking about.

I do wonder if we will still continue with the stretch plays. Brown, not so sure if he has the vision for that. Carter and Ballard, we will have to see.

[FireJimCaldwell]

The Steelers rarely ran, and even more so rarely passed out of the 2 most popular 2 te looks. 12 & 13.

[Coffeedrinker]

Since about 2-3 boards ago I've been clamoring for dual legit receiving threats. While I like Dilger and his contributions to the offense (particularly in the run game), I'm a tremendous fan of offensive flexibility, especially when you have an intelligent QB like Manning or now Luck. Two legit receiving threats at TE, both short range and downfield, provide the maximum flexibility for a QB to run the most sets and to find the set most likely to succeed at any point in time without changing personnel.

I think the Pollard/Clark combination provided more flexibility than Pollard/Dilger.

Good points. I disagree but only because the run game. Neither Pollard nor Clark were any where close to as good a blocker as Dilger. Dilger really helped in the running game and then all of a sudden he pop out, catch a pass in the short zone at the hash marks, turn around backwards and gain enough yards for the first down.

Now if Clark happened to have played in the two or three years of Pollard's prime I would probably feel completely different, even with the Dilger advantage in the running game.

[The Peytonator]

I still reckon Eldridge wouldn't be as bad a pass catcher as we all seem to think. I remember in one of his first games, he ran a good 25 yard route down the seam, the ball was kinda overthrown and he got popped right when it hit his hands. Even though he dropped it, I was still impressed with his downfield capability. I thought for sure he'd see more targets. Maybe Arians will get more out of him.

[YOUR GM]

I don't really have any clips but this is an interesting topic.

One I don't think you can dismiss Arians affect on Manning. I think Moore's system definitely played to his talents but Arians had to work with Manning to make the most out of that system.

I think Manning would've been great regardless of who was his QB coach at this level. One indicator of how good a coach is, is to look at who else they've helped develop in their career. Mark Whipple developed Ben Roethlisberger, not Arians....If he was so instrumental in developing Manning, why hasn't he specialized in working with Qb's since his first stint with the Colts? Better yet, why hasn't he been offered any head coaching gigs after being a coordinator for a superbowl winning team all these years?

If you want an example of a QB coach who really makes an impact (and has the track record to back it up), take a look at Greenbay's new OC, Tom Clements:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Tom_Clements

In 1992, Clements was hired as quarterbacks coach for Notre Dame, where he served until 1995 under head coach Lou Holtz. After practicing law in 1996, Clements took his first NFL job, working as the quarterback coach for the New Orleans Saints from 1997 to 1999. Clements would hold the same job in 2000 with the Kansas City Chiefs, and between 2001 and 2003 with the Pittsburgh Steelers; under Clements’s tutelage, the Chiefs’ Elvis Grbac (in 2000) and the Steelers’ Kordell Stewart (in 2001) and Tommy Maddox (in 2002) each reached the Pro Bowl.

During Clements time as the quarterbacks coach with the Green Bay Packers, he has worked with starting quarterbacks: Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, and Matt Flynn. In 2007, Favre statistically had one of his best seasons with the Green Bay Packers, taking them to the NFC Championship game. Clements is also credited for assisting in the development of one of the game's elite quarterbacks in Aaron Rodgers, as the only player in NFL history to throw for 4,000+ yards during his first two years as a starting quarterback in 2008 and 2009, and winning Super Bowl XLV and Super Bowl Most Valuable Player Award in Rodgers' third year as a starting quarterback in 2010. In Week 17 of the 2011 season, after the Packers went 14-1, head coach Mike McCarthy chose to deactivate Rodgers to keep him healthy for the playoffs and start backup quarterback, Matt Flynn, on January 1, 2012 at Lambeau Field vs. the Detroit Lions, Flynn's second start in his career. Throughout the game, Clements worked with Flynn on the sidelines, showing him what to look for in the photos from the previous offensive series. Flynn had a record setting performance, throwing for 480 yards and 6 touchdowns, both single game records for the Green Bay Packers.

Everything that man touches turns to gold right now

Two. The OC can only do the offense the HC directs. Perhaps Tomlin didn't like the idea of a two TE set because it changes the dynamics of power running. Perhaps they wanted to run it but just didn't have the personnel.

To my understanding, Arians was the one who insisted on installing a zone blocking scheme to complement his spread attack, despite the fact that the Steelers didn't have the personnel (particularly on the O-line) to run that scheme properly. Pittsburgh has big, slow, powerful linemen who are better suited for a power run scheme. This was many Steelers fans biggest complaint about Arians and his time in Pitt.

Lastly. I have a feeling that Arian's two TE sets are going to be very similar to the Colts old two TE sets. Meaning that probably Fleener will be lined up on the LOS all the time and Allen being moved around and fulfilling more of that H-back role based on the defense.

I may change my mind after seeing some preseason games but I picture it this way. Picture Fleener in the role filled by Pollard and Allen in the role that Dilger played.

I could see this happening, and I wouldn't be opposed to it. I think Allen would be slightly more active in the passing game than Dilger ever was for us.

It would make since that Arians would run the system he was first introduced to under Tom Moore. Wishful thinking on my part but, I'd like to see Moore brought back to some capacity, being that this is a variant of the offense he created.

[Buck Showalter]

see picture of Fleener

See picture of Allen

[coltsdan]

Nice find. And welcome to the board.

that

[Coffeedrinker]

I think Manning would've been great regardless of who was his QB coach at this level. One indicator of how good a coach is, is to look at who else they've helped develop in their career. Mark Whipple developed Ben Roethlisberger, not Arians....If he was so instrumental in developing Manning, why hasn't he specialized in working with Qb's since his first stint with the Colts? Better yet, why hasn't he been offered any head coaching gigs after being a coordinator for a superbowl winning team all these years?

Well you've got some different questions here. Why has he not specialized in working with QBs? Because he was promoted to offensive coordinator. Why has he not been a HC? I don't know maybe he doesn't want to be a HC. Using that criteria then I guess Tom Moore was never that good because he was not offered any HC gigs.

If you want an example of a QB coach who really makes an impact (and has the track record to back it up), take a look at Greenbay's new OC, Tom Clements:

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Tom_Clements

Okay. I guess in your view there cannot be more than one good QB coach in the NFL? Arians was with the Colts and Manning improved each year, Arians left and Manning became a lot less consistent, Caldwell came in and Manning started to improve each year again. QB coaches make around 350-500k per year, a team would not pay that money if the position was not important. It does help if you have a good QB to work with but a good one will make a difference.

Everything that man touches turns to gold right now

I guess if he was really good he would have been offered an OC gig after winning a couple of SBs with Farve and Rogers.

To my understanding, Arians was the one who insisted on installing a zone blocking scheme to complement his spread attack, despite the fact that the Steelers didn't have the personnel (particularly on the O-line) to run that scheme properly.

Really? Where did you get that understanding from? Because the times I've watched the Steelers they ran man blocking, at least when the run was between the tackles, not zone. So, if Arians insisted on zone blocking he was not very successful.

Pittsburgh has big, slow, powerful linemen who are better suited for a power run scheme. This was many Steelers fans biggest complaint about Arians and his time in Pitt.

That's nice. The personnel is why, everytime I saw Pitts play they used man blocking not zone blocking.

[wordofmouth]

I am not going to pretend to know what the Steelers ran because I don't like the Steelers and have no interest in watching them. But I imagine that they would use the TEs like the Patriots. With Fleener being like Gronk and used mostly and Dwayne Allen used like Hernandez. I see it like Polian saw it when he said that Fleener/Allen is like Clark/Pollard except with more athleticism.

Wow, did Polian say that? Becasue Clark and Pollard were both pretty athletic.

I am really looking forward to watching this Offense develop.

[Coffeedrinker]

It's not specific to Arians and two TEs but this seemed like the best post to post this.

I found a very interesting article on Pro Football Focus. That shows the breakdown on the Colts for the last 3 years and Arians for the last four years. Colts were more pass oriented as expected but but Arians pass a lot. 59% last year. Also talks about more passes to the wide outs with the emergence of Wallace and Brown and the decline of Ward.

Another interesting thing is look at the sack% numbers. Colts are excellent in 2009 and 2010 but then in 2011 it more than doubles to 6.6%. But if you look at the other teams in the article, most of them would have been ecstatic to achieve a 6.6%. For the Colts that number would have been closer to 5% if they had someone other than Linkenbach at RT.

[Tark The Shark]

Wow, did Polian say that? Becasue Clark and Pollard were both pretty athletic.

I am really looking forward to watching this Offense develop.

Yeah if you watched the draft the third day they asked about the Fleener/Allen duo and he said it was like Pollard/Clark except more athlectism.

[YOUR GM]

Well you've got some different questions here. Why has he not specialized in working with QBs? Because he was promoted to offensive coordinator.

Arians hasn't worked with a QB unit as a position coach, OC or anything else since his time with the Colts. If he was such the QB guru people try to paint him as (simply because he was Manning's first QB coach), don't you think teams would hire him to work with their QB unit, rather than receivers or TE?

Why has he not been a HC? I don't know maybe he doesn't want to be a HC. Using that criteria then I guess Tom Moore was never that good because he was not offered any HC gigs.

Figured you might go there. Not the same situation at all. Moore was offered head coaching gigs all the time and made it clear he had no interest in being one. Arians has never come out at any point and said he doesn't want to be a head coach. Every off-season when coaches names are floated around for possible head coaching gigs, Arians name never comes up anymore, despite the fact he has a superbowl to his resume. Why that is, I don't know. I do know that he has never came out and, outright said that he isn't interested in being a head coach,though.

Okay. I guess in your view there cannot be more than one good QB coach in the NFL?

I don't know how you concluded that from anything I posted. I merely showed you an example of a QB coach who has a proven track record of success with numerous QB's of varying degrees of skill and ability. Arians hasn't done that. He worked with Manning and people automatically equate that to meaning he molded Manning into the player he is. I don't think that's the case at all.

Arians was with the Colts and Manning improved each year, Arians left and Manning became a lot less consistent, Caldwell came in and Manning started to improve each year again. QB coaches make around 350-500k per year, a team would not pay that money if the position was not important. It does help if you have a good QB to work with but a good one will make a difference.

Was Manning's inconsistency in 2001 due to the departure of Arians as QB coach, or to the lose of his all-pro, franchise running back for the majority of the season? I tend to think it was the latter. Even so, he still passed for over 4,000 yards and accounted for 30 TD's in that season of "inconsistency," (which I feel is a little overstated)

I guess if he was really good he would have been offered an OC gig after winning a couple of SBs with Farve and Rogers.

He only won one superbowl, and that was with Rodgers. He was, however, Buffalo's OC after serving as the Steelers QB coach year before.

He's been one of the most coveted offensive coaches the past two off-seasons, as many teams were trying to pry him away from Greenbay to become their OC.

Really? Where did you get that understanding from? Because the times I've watched the Steelers they ran man blocking, at least when the run was between the tackles, not zone. So, if Arians insisted on zone blocking he was not very successful.

That's nice. The personnel is why, everytime I saw Pitts play they used man blocking not zone blocking.

That understand comes from watching the games and reading articles. Arians ran a singleback, zone scheme in Pittsburgh. They haven't done man-on-man blocking since Whistenhunt and Grimm left for Arizona. Don't believe me, look for yourself:

http://bleacherrepor...him-or-hate-him

[Coffeedrinker]

Arians hasn't worked with a QB unit as a position coach, OC or anything else since his time with the Colts. If he was such the QB guru people try to paint him as (simply because he was Manning's first QB coach), don't you think teams would hire him to work with their QB unit, rather than receivers or TE?

What are you talking about? Arians left the Colts to become the OC of the Browns and then hired by Cowher to coach the WRs and then promoted to OC by Tomlin.

Figured you might go there. Not the same situation at all. Moore was offered head coaching gigs all the time and made it clear he had no interest in being one. Arians has never come out at any point and said he doesn't want to be a head coach. Every off-season when coaches names are floated around for possible head coaching gigs, Arians name never comes up anymore, despite the fact he has a superbowl to his resume. Why that is, I don't know. I do know that he has never came out and, outright said that he isn't interested in being a head coach,though.

One, you don't know that Arians' name never comes up. Two, I brought up Moore to try and show how ridiculous your original comment is.

I don't know how you concluded that from anything I posted. I merely showed you an example of a QB coach who has a proven track record of success with numerous QB's of varying degrees of skill and ability. Arians hasn't done that. He worked with Manning and people automatically equate that to meaning he molded Manning into the player he is. I don't think that's the case at all.

He worked with Manning, Manning improved, and then Arians got promoted and you want to act like it's a bad thing. If you want to try and claim I'm saying he "molded Manning" fine all I'm saying is he was the QB coach and Manning improved.

Was Manning's inconsistency in 2001 due to the departure of Arians as QB coach, or to the lose of his all-pro, franchise running back for the majority of the season? I tend to think it was the latter. Even so, he still passed for over 4,000 yards and accounted for 30 TD's in that season of "inconsistency," (which I feel is a little overstated)

And his INTs went up and he made quite a few bad decisions. No, some of it had to do with the QB coach because I remember being on the Indystar forum and discussing Manning's inconsistency that year with other posters before James went down with the knee injury in the Chiefs game. And there was quite a difference in Manning's pocket presence from 2000 to 2001 to 2002.

He's been one of the most coveted offensive coaches the past two off-seasons, as many teams were trying to pry him away from Greenbay to become their OC.

Good for him. I'm not sure what that has to do with Arians and his two TE offense.

That understand comes from watching the games and reading articles. Arians ran a singleback, zone scheme in Pittsburgh. They haven't done man-on-man blocking since Whistenhunt and Grimm left for Arizona. Don't believe me, look for yourself:

http://bleacherrepor...him-or-hate-him

Well, I've give you can quote bleacher report. But it doesn't come from watching the games.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of Arians. I have always thought that the Steelers O was lacking in a lot of areas. We can continue to debate it if you want. And I do plan on going back and watching some Steelers to look at their oline, the bleacher report blog is interesting but it's not what I remember seeing and I think the writer is mistaking finesse and positioning with zone blocking. I remember thinking this year when the Colts played them that they could give Roethlisburger a lot more time if they tried do some zone blocking instead of man to man.

[YOUR GM]

What are you talking about? Arians left the Colts to become the OC of the Browns and then hired by Cowher to coach the WRs and then promoted to OC by Tomlin.

Sigh... You don't understand what I'm saying, and i'll just leave it as such

One, you don't know that Arians' name never comes up. Two, I brought up Moore to try and show how ridiculous your original comment is.

Regardless of if his name has ever come up for a job, the proof is in the fact that he is still a coordinator after all these years...and he was forced out of his last coordinating gig because of the very issues I've talked about.

He worked with Manning, Manning improved, and then Arians got promoted and you want to act like it's a bad thing. If you want to try and claim I'm saying he "molded Manning" fine all I'm saying is he was the QB coach and Manning improved.

Gee.... a phenom, once in a generation QB showed great improvement between years 1-2 and 2-3. A star QB getting better with experience...There's something I wasn't expecting....

I'd bet money on Manning's strides in those years happening regardless of who held the title of QB coach at the time. That's all hypothetical and moot at this point though, so.... moving on.

And his INTs went up and he made quite a few bad decisions. No, some of it had to do with the QB coach because I remember being on the Indystar forum and discussing Manning's inconsistency that year with other posters before James went down with the knee injury in the Chiefs game. And there was quite a difference in Manning's pocket presence from 2000 to 2001 to 2002.

He was a young QB who played (what went on to become) both participants of the AFC championship game that year 3 times in a row early in the season. Not hard to figure out why he struggled against two of the top passing defenses in the league that year. I believe the next game after that 2nd New England game was when James went down with the season ending injury. Our whole team had issues turning the ball over that year, and that had nothing to do with who the QB coach was.

Well, I've give you can quote bleacher report. But it doesn't come from watching the games.

Since I can't seem to satisfy you with a reference, I'll just let you look at the plays with your own eyes:

Zone blocking concepts all throughout these videos. Even the run where they were backed up on their own 1 yard line and Mendenhall broke up for 25 was a inside zone run. You can tell if it's a zone run by watching the O-line's feet immediately after snap. If it's a zone run, they take a lateral step to begin the play

And if that's not enough, you're more than welcome to go to any Steelers fan forum and ask them what they've ran the last 4 seasons under Arians.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of Arians. I have always thought that the Steelers O was lacking in a lot of areas.

So you're just arguing with me for the sake of argument?

We can continue to debate it if you want.

I would, but I honestly don't even know what we're debating at this point. I'll just agree to disagree... with whatever it is that you don't agree with me about (even though you don't care for Arians either)

So.... yeah

[John Dee]

I'll be the first to admit I was pretty disappointed when I found out the Colts hired Arians as OC. I'm not a fan of his work in Pittsburgh (playcalling had no continuity. Too in love with drawing up pretty formations & gadget plays) Also, while many like to credit him for the early development of Peyton Manning, we all know it was Tom Moore of nurtured Manning's talent here. All that being said, I've come to terms with the fact that he's now our new OC and I'm curious to know exactly how he plans to use both Fleener and Allen. Does anyone have any clips of the Steelers in their two TE sets that we can use for clues as to what we can expect?

(I ask this, knowing that the Steelers never had two TE's with as much talent as our new tandem is projected to have. I understand it probably won't look exactly like what he ran in Pittsburgh, but still... i'm curious)

First.....Talent decides direction.

Second... The Steelers OL has been one of THE MOST OFFT INJURED UNITS IN THE NFL. Check their last draft.

And third Arian's was a part of the Dilger Pollard TE monster that never gets mentioned nowadays.

The dude also put Derek Anderson in the "PRO BOWL".....

[FireJimCaldwell]

The dude also put Derek Anderson in the "PRO BOWL".....

The dude never coached Derek Anderson.

The Panthers OC Chudzinski was the OC in Cleveland when Derek Anderson went to the pro bowl.

[nothing0]

Sometimes like this:

O OOOOOOO

O

O

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Boy, that doesn't come out right after you post it, and now I can't remove this post.

So I'm sticking with it. Regardless of how stupid it looks

LOL

I was thinking..

12

(1-back 2 TE)

[John Dee]

The dude never coached Derek Anderson.

The Panthers OC Chudzinski was the OC in Cleveland when Derek Anderson went to the pro bowl.

Sorry FJC... I'm getting old...

Guess Ben would have been the better choice.

Whatever... Arian's is a great QB coach. And if Pitt, over the last few years had stated healthy on the OL BA would still be there.

Guess you would like to dispute that also?

[FireJimCaldwell]

Sorry FJC... I'm getting old...

Guess Ben would have been the better choice.

Whatever... Arian's is a great QB coach. And if Pitt, over the last few years had stated healthy on the OL BA would still be there.

Guess you would like to dispute that also?

Well, Arians coached Wide Receivers his first 3 years in Pittsburgh but BBR did take two trips to Hawaii out of the 5 under Arians.

I think there was a philosophical difference between Arians and Tomlin, and the other powers to be more than the injuries you mentioned. I know Roethlisberger wanted him to stay, but I think he threw it more with 3wr/4wr sets than Tomin or the front office/owners cared for.

[John Dee]

Well, Arians coached Wide Receivers his first 3 years in Pittsburgh but BBR did take two trips to Hawaii out of the 5 under Arians.

I think there was a philosophical difference between Arians and Tomlin, and the other powers to be more than the injuries you mentioned. I know Roethlisberger wanted him to stay, but I think he threw it more with 3wr/4wr sets than Tomin or the front office/owners cared for.

Because they could NOT run the ball. Why? Pitt's OL has been an IR unit the last few years. They drafted OL 1 an 2 in this draft. If you can't run you better be able to play D,

Pitt could, Indy could not.

Pitt has not morphed into a pass happy team because they want to, it happened out of necessity. And it worked. Kinda.

The Colts under Pag and BA will not come close to looking like the Steelers of late.