Thoughts after draft

[HtownColt]

being that its a passing league now i will take my chances with an offense that can compete and just have a optimistic defense right now..we couldve went defense heavy but it wouldnt have got us that far with the skill players we had before this draft we wouldnt have been able to keep up points wise..least we have a punchers chance in games now with a better offense.

[Captain Americolt]

I'm really anxious to see what a fully healthy Josh Chapman can do. Im not sold on a career back-up in Mckinney.

[Luck2Fleener]

I agree. Before the draft I thought this rebuilding process would be a 3-4 year project, but now I'm optimistic that we can make the playoffs in 2013. Whereas running backs, offensive line, and defenders can step in immediately and make an impact, passers and pass catchers seem to require at minimum 2 years to develop.

Are we going to win a lot of games this year? Probably not. But Pagano and Grigson seem to have a plan. Get the backbone for our offense this year and get defensive playmakers next year, then spend the draft in year three addressing whatever remaining holes we still have.

So before somebody says how we failed to address the defensive side of the ball, I must say that I am glad that we ignored defense in our draft. A+

[HtownColt]

I'm really anxious to see what a fully healthy Josh Chapman can do. Im not sold on a career back-up in Mckinney.

Me too hope chapman is that run stopper we are looking for..and Mckinney was backing up the best NT in the game in Ngata hopefully he learned a thing or two from him

[LightninMax]

It's truly difficult to 2nd guess the Brain Trust in the War room. They had much more information to work with particularly the face to face interviews and conversations with the prospects.

I have to believe they know the needs and have a better feel for the BPA at each of the pick times.

I still find myself salivating at what the possibilities would have been to have kept PM and trade the first pick, but alas, simply an interesting mental exercise. It was fun to watch all 7 rounds.

[Gavin]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

[antipatriot]

I am happy with the new regime so far I think we are building our offense first and we have always been a more offensive team anyway so we will hopefully enjoy some high octane play. We all know the rebuild wont happen overnight and we may not be one of the better teams for the next couple of seasons but as someone said already there seems to be a plan and I am happy to watch it unfold.

GO COLTS

[Truckin Sanders]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

You speak the truth. Every pick after Luck i can give a big meh too. I really hope frathis finds sucks in the 3-4 or we are going to be historically bad.

[Gavin]

I was hoping for Upshaw or Jenkins maybe we could have packaged Mathis and Freeny in a deal for alot of picks and got more picks, I wasnt expecting to win this year but some pieces put in place besides a Chapman would have been nice one more defensive stud and I would have been happy, heck and even Chapman said hes 50 percent

[MAC]

But Pagano and Grigson seem to have a plan. Get the backbone for our offense this year and get defensive playmakers next year, then spend the draft in year three addressing whatever remaining holes we still have.

Why have you come to this conclusion? They stated that they were targeting defensive players but missed on them. What kind of plan is that exactly? I think it's just that the team has so many openings that they had the luxury of taking the highest ranked player on their board each time without worrying so much about position.

I sure hope that they know what they are doing. I won't trust their judgement until we see how these players develop. Frankly I'm thoroughly confused. I LOVED everything about the previous Colts teams, but I've accepted the idea that management was brought in to build the team around defense and ball control (talented QB you hope but don't put the entire game on his back). So why do you then take "the best two tight ends" (neither one of which was a good blocker in college), and two undersized WRs who can't block at all? The NT looks like a great bargain, but other than that they didn't draft for defense at all (the late LB looks like a "run around and disrupt on special teams" guy if he makes the team.

I have no basis for second guessing most of their picks. Th inside runner is intriguing, as is the big lineman and the backup QB , but some of this was just wierd. Trading up to the third round to take a kick returner with a fifth round grade? He'd BETTER make an impact at WR with that high a pick. Returners are a dime a dozen, and even the great ones probably only get you on average 5 extra yards per return. Who cares, that's one play on offense. A lock-down CB helps you on dozens of plays each game. Without one you aren't going to be forcing too many punts in the first place.

[HtownColt]

Mel Kiper had T.Y. Hilton #60 on his big board so that's not a 5th round talent that's late 2nd early 3rd talent

[CR91]

i cant wait to see our new offense and how well our defense plays now thats theres no leash to hold them back anymore

[ColtsLegacy]

I have no basis for second guessing most of their picks. Th inside runner is intriguing, as is the big lineman and the backup QB , but some of this was just wierd. Trading up to the third round to take a kick returner with a fifth round grade? He'd BETTER make an impact at WR with that high a pick. Returners are a dime a dozen, and even the great ones probably only get you on average 5 extra yards per return. Who cares, that's one play on offense. A lock-down CB helps you on dozens of plays each game. Without one you aren't going to be forcing too many punts in the first place.

All I've seen is 3rd round grades on T.Y. Hilton and Mayock had him at #60 on his top 100. Trading up may not have been necessary but it's not like it was to take a major reach pick.

http://www.nfl.com/d...ospect-rankings

http://www.cbssports...38761/ty-hilton

http://www.nfldrafts...=2012&genpos=WR

[gophercolt]

Like many others have said, I am excited to see what Luck can do with all these weapons. It is an exciting time to be a colts fan.

[Coltsfan23]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

How bad is the defense really that the Colts had in camp? Was it that they had bad players or a bad scheme? Even all pro corners are going to find it hard to defend consistently 10 yards off the ball. I think the defense is going to be greatly improved this year with the scheme change alone. Also have to take into account the defensive players brought in through FA. Now they won't be a top flight defense though being improved over years past isn't going to be hard to achieve. They have players on the Defensive side of the ball they will need the time this coming season to evaluate how they fit the new scheme. That can't be said for the offensive side with that cupboard being all but bare. With that I am fine with them taking so many on offense to put around Luck.

[Gavin]

How bad is the defense really that the Colts had in camp? Was it that they had bad players or a bad scheme? Even all pro corners are going to find it hard to defend consistently 10 yards off the ball. I think the defense is going to be greatly improved this year with the scheme change alone. Also have to take into account the defensive players brought in through FA. Now they won't be a top flight defense though being improved over years past isn't going to be hard to achieve. They have players on the Defensive side of the ball they will need the time this coming season to evaluate how they fit the new scheme. That can't be said for the offensive side with that cupboard being all but bare. With that I am fine with them taking so many on offense to put around Luck.

we added Avery, we had Collie we brought back Wayne, if we were going for players at these positions we should have went for stud wide receivers, stud linebackers a true number 1 Corner instead we got two defense ends playing linebacker one of which is making 14 million dollars for one year doing it and was two tight ends back to back necessary? was drafting a 3-4th string quarterback necessary, was drafting a slot receiver/ punt and kick returner necessary with the way the rules have changed now? we did alot of reaching after Fleener

[MAC]

All I've seen is 3rd round grades on T.Y. Hilton and Mayock had him at #60 on his top 100. Trading up may not have been necessary but it's not like it was to take a major reach pick.

http://www.nfl.com/d...ospect-rankings

http://www.cbssports...38761/ty-hilton

http://www.nfldrafts...=2012&genpos=WR

I guess he's been climbing - glad to see that - though confused by it as mentioned in a previous conversation about a different player. Mayock's ranking is very encouraging.

Pro football weekly had him as a 4th-5th rounder in their printed guide, now they have him a bit higher (and one of your links says 3rd-4th rounder). He was clearly of far less interest last month. Why someone would climb dramatically without having played in months has always seemed a bit ridiculous to me. "Oh, he had a good timed sprint"........ "That's nice, now can he play football". I just hope that they see a guy who can be a starting wide receiver. There are way too many areas of need on this club to be trading up to the third to get a specialist.

[GAColt]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

Question: Who were the 31st and 32nd ranked defense last year?

Answer: New England and Green Bay.

As a matter of fact 6 of the 12 playoff teams were ranked 20th and lower.

It's an offensive dominated league. Build the offense first.

After having such horrible special teams over the past several years, I would think people would be happy with a punt returner that can improve field position.

[NewEra]

Our defense has good pieces, period. Our offense didn't. We gave our rookie qb some tools to work with. I just don't understand how people can't grasp that. We can address our defense more next year. Yes more, as we have already picked up some pieces this year.

[Montana]

I think this draft effort was one of the best I've seen in years. I have no issues with who or when they were selected. There may have been a pick or two that didn't ring quite right initially, but after I did some additional reviewing of them, I'm good to go. All the woulda, coulda shoulda's in the world are nonfactors now. I'm going to let it play out and see how it ends... Grigs totally impressed me..

[Balzer40]

I've had a day and a full night of sleep now on this draft and it has grown on me somewhat. I obviously love the Luck pick and like the Fleener pick. I understand the allen pick and even the Hilton pick. Chapman could be a steal but the knee injury scares me. Also, IMO he's a little undersized for a true NT, but he's unbelievably strong so we'll see on that one. After that, im not impressed with any of the other picks and IMO could have been utilized on better talent, of course thats just an opinion and im obviously not a GM so who knows. I am intrugued by the huge O-lineman but he's very raw at the position because he used to be a DT. Time will tell just how good this draft really was when we see these guy's in action.

[bavanlan]

(Reposted)

I loved our draft. Not only do you get Andrew Luck going THIS YEAR 1) with players he's going to need to build chemistry with, 2) with talented players that will allow him to learn the offense more quickly and more completely, and 3) with more success than he would have with no/fewer weapons, you also get a chance to see how your existing veterans do in a defense that's a complete shift from where it was last year. Certain players you may have thought were insufficient right now may pan out to be great for this system and players you thought would be good in the new defense may turn out to be insufficient.

By the time the draft gets here next year, everyone will have a much better idea of where we are at personnel wise on defense and so you're not using a pick on a player to replace someone that turned out to be good in the defense.

[oldunclemark]

Question: Who were the 31st and 32nd ranked defense last year?

Answer: New England and Green Bay.

As a matter of fact 6 of the 12 playoff teams were ranked 20th and lower.

It's an offensive dominated league. Build the offense first.

After having such horrible special teams over the past several years, I would think people would be happy with a punt returner that can improve field position.

GA...

..People are having a tough time accepting the way the league is going...

That the rules beg you to throw the ball....and no bad offensive teams has won in this century..

I'm glad our GM and coaches understand the way they game is played espcially indoors and in warm weather (all of our division rivals) towns

we were 2-14 last year because we had one of the worst offenses in the history of the franchise..

..and it wasn't all the QB

[Balzer40]

GA...

..People are having a tough time accepting the way the league is going...

That the rules beg you to throw the ball....and no bad offensive teams has won in this century..

I'm glad our GM and coaches understand the way they game is played espcially indoors and in warm weather (all of our division rivals) towns

we were 2-14 last year because we had one of the worst offenses in the history of the franchise..

..and it wasn't all the QB

Yes Mark, we all understand it's a passing league now, but if you don't at least have a decent defense, you will go nowhere in the playoffs. The Colts proved this time and time again over the last 12 yrs.. I don't think anybody is expecting Baltimore's defense, but we need to at least be able to stop a team from hogging the ball for 45 out of 60 minutes a game.

[Bleedin Blue]

Just adding my I think the thing you have to remember here is history. It shows that if you pick #1 at QB but fail to surround that QB with talent what you will have is a mess...with bust potential. Think Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell (Raiders wouldn't even give him a QB coach). This team was really bad...the defense was really bad because the offense couldn't stay on the field more than 3 downs. I don't think you can really judge our defense last year at all IMHO. I think Pagano and his team believe they need a full year to evaluate the players on our defense. Let's be honest...we have a solid foundation on defense:

D-Line: Moala, Johnson, Matthews, Nevis (DT), McKinney, Chapman (NT)

LB Core: Freeney (OLB), Mathis (OLB), Connor (OLB) Angerer (ILB), Harvey (ILB)

Safeties: Zbikowsky, Lefeged (SS), Bethea (FS)

Corners: Powers, Caldwell, Thomas, Rucker

Now I agree that we are thin at corner and free safety but I think we are currently carrying a corner or two that might make a great safety. I also think we can manage through 2013 until next year's draft and get those players that we need to fully build this defense. So now in two years you have offense and defense where they need to be...I like it!

I also think our O-line will be much better with the rookies coming back from injury and a year of learning about the NFL plus what we've added in free agency.

I really like where we're going!!!

[oldunclemark]

Yes Mark, we all understand it's a passing league now, but if you don't at least have a decent defense, you will go nowhere in the playoffs. The Colts proved this time and time again over the last 12 yrs.. I don't think anybody is expecting Baltimore's defense, but we need to at least be able to stop a team from hogging the ball for 45 out of 60 minutes a game.

We made the Super Bowl twice/./

More than Dallas, Phily, San Diego..and everyone else in our divison

the Colts did not prove that if you have an elite offense that you go nowhere in the playoffs

and I think in Indy....playing who we play where we play them...

you cannot rely on defense to win for you...and you cant worry about teanms that try to hog the ball 45 minutes

because those teams are like Jacksonville...

I like us better than Jax

You need speed, top special teams....passing and pass defense

....The idea that we lost playoff games because of bad defense just isnt the way I saw it

[Balzer40]

We made the Super Bowl twice/./

More than Dallas, Phily, San Diego..and everyone else in our divison

the Colts did not prove that if you have an elite offense that you go nowhere in the playoffs

and I think in Indy....playing who we play where we play them...

you cannot rely on defense to win for you...and you cant worry about teanms that try to hog the ball 45 minutes

because those teams are like Jacksonville...

I like us better than Jax

You need speed, top special teams....passing and pass defense

....The idea that we lost playoff games because of bad defense just isnt the way I saw it

We'll have to agree to disagree. The one yr. we won the superbowl was solely because the defense stepped up bigtime and shutdown teams running games. Manning did not have a good postseason that yr. and we won from running the ball and stopping the run. I don't think thats coincidental.

[coltsfanatic24]

very excited about this season with the great additions in the draft. i think will finish 9-7 and make playoffs as a wildcard.

[Coltsfan23]

we added Avery, we had Collie we brought back Wayne, if we were going for players at these positions we should have went for stud wide receivers, stud linebackers a true number 1 Corner instead we got two defense ends playing linebacker one of which is making 14 million dollars for one year doing it and was two tight ends back to back necessary? was drafting a 3-4th string quarterback necessary, was drafting a slot receiver/ punt and kick returner necessary with the way the rules have changed now? we did alot of reaching after Fleener

Avery is a lottery ticket on a one year deal. Wayne is the veteran voice on the offense that Luck will need to help him along. What better person to help mentor Luck than someone who spent his entire career playing with Manning? What stud wide receiver was available? What true #1 corner was available? Did you listen to the after press conference where they admitted that they had a corner chosen but came off the board before they could pick him? Why would they need a stud LB when that isn't a position of need at this point? Why a backup QB? Is that a serious question? Did you not watch last season at all? Did you not see the damage done by not having a viable backup? Did you not watch any games last season that proved the change in kick off's did little to nothing to change the kick off game? With the change in the rules on hitting players coming over the seem I think someone with blazing speed is a definite need. I disagree with you completely and so does everyone else if you pay attention to what is said nationally. If they did do a lot of reaching how do you explain the Colts getting A's on their draft?

Freeney is here due to a previous contract and I don't doubt they tried trading him. He is a sunk cost right now so may as well see what he can do. The Colts are not going to be a SB contender so giving Luck all the tools to work with from day one is far more important to me than attempting to shore up the defense but leaving utter crap at the skill positions.

[BProland85]

I agree. Before the draft I thought this rebuilding process would be a 3-4 year project, but now I'm optimistic that we can make the playoffs in 2013. Whereas running backs, offensive line, and defenders can step in immediately and make an impact, passers and pass catchers seem to require at minimum 2 years to develop.

Are we going to win a lot of games this year? Probably not. But Pagano and Grigson seem to have a plan. Get the backbone for our offense this year and get defensive playmakers next year, then spend the draft in year three addressing whatever remaining holes we still have.

So before somebody says how we failed to address the defensive side of the ball, I must say that I am glad that we ignored defense in our draft. A+

I agree I think we could be a wild card team come 2013. I think this team has a better defense right now than the Titans, and a better offense than the Jags. And soon they could have a better offense and defense than both if these draft picks come through for us.

[jskinnz]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

You get another one...

Dear God.

[MAC]

Question: Who were the 31st and 32nd ranked defense last year?

Answer: New England and Green Bay.

As a matter of fact 6 of the 12 playoff teams were ranked 20th and lower.

It's an offensive dominated league. Build the offense first.

After having such horrible special teams over the past several years, I would think people would be happy with a punt returner that can improve field position.

I agree that this is an offensive minded league. That's why you'll never see me dumping on Polian or the Colts of the Peyton era. You could actually make the argument that the rest of the league is copying US, so it's ironic that so many seem desperate to change.

But while the special teams HAVE been inexcusably horrid, that's because of blocking. There are probably 150 UDFAs (plus a dozen guys on our roster) who could return kicks just fine. That third round pick is hopefully a good receiver. And if he is, hopefully they'll quickly pull him out of special teams before risking his health unnecessarily (like they did with Marvin).

[Gavin]

Avery is a lottery ticket on a one year deal. Wayne is the veteran voice on the offense that Luck will need to help him along. What better person to help mentor Luck than someone who spent his entire career playing with Manning? What stud wide receiver was available? What true #1 corner was available? Did you listen to the after press conference where they admitted that they had a corner chosen but came off the board before they could pick him? Why would they need a stud LB when that isn't a position of need at this point? Why a backup QB? Is that a serious question? Did you not watch last season at all? Did you not see the damage done by not having a viable backup? Did you not watch any games last season that proved the change in kick off's did little to nothing to change the kick off game? With the change in the rules on hitting players coming over the seem I think someone with blazing speed is a definite need. I disagree with you completely and so does everyone else if you pay attention to what is said nationally. If they did do a lot of reaching how do you explain the Colts getting A's on their draft?

Freeney is here due to a previous contract and I don't doubt they tried trading him. He is a sunk cost right now so may as well see what he can do. The Colts are not going to be a SB contender so giving Luck all the tools to work with from day one is far more important to me than attempting to shore up the defense but leaving utter crap at the skill positions.

1-simply put, that A the media and you are talking about stands for Andrew, take him off our picks and you wouldnt have liked our grade

2- paying a defensive end to play linebacker for the first time in his life at 14 million dollars for one year? and linebacker isnt a need? are you joking?

3-after we let Jenkins go their wasnt a number 1 Corner left although Alfonso Dennard would have given Powers a heck of a run for it, as for that stud wide receiver Tommy Streeter would have made a solid #2 with potential to be a number 1

now being positive is good but ignoring obvious concerns is a sure fire recipe for disaster, wait till we play the Patriots

[NewEra]

Just adding my I think the thing you have to remember here is history. It shows that if you pick #1 at QB but fail to surround that QB with talent what you will have is a mess...with bust potential. Think Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell (Raiders wouldn't even give him a QB coach). This team was really bad...the defense was really bad because the offense couldn't stay on the field more than 3 downs. I don't think you can really judge our defense last year at all IMHO. I think Pagano and his team believe they need a full year to evaluate the players on our defense. Let's be honest...we have a solid foundation on defense:

D-Line: Moala, Johnson, Matthews, Nevis (DT), McKinney, Chapman (NT)

LB Core: Freeney (OLB), Mathis (OLB), Connor (OLB) Angerer (ILB), Harvey (ILB)

Safeties: Zbikowsky, Lefeged (SS), Bethea (FS)

Corners: Powers, Caldwell, Thomas, Rucker

Now I agree that we are thin at corner and free safety but I think we are currently carrying a corner or two that might make a great safety. I also think we can manage through 2013 until next year's draft and get those players that we need to fully build this defense. So now in two years you have offense and defense where they need to be...I like it!

I also think our O-line will be much better with the rookies coming back from injury and a year of learning about the NFL plus what we've added in free agency.

I really like where we're going!!!

Take out Mathews and add redding

[Coltsfan23]

1-simply put, that A the media and you are talking about stands for Andrew, take him off our picks and you wouldnt have liked our grade

2- paying a defensive end to play linebacker for the first time in his life at 14 million dollars for one year? and linebacker isnt a need? are you joking?

3-after we let Jenkins go their wasnt a number 1 Corner left although Alfonso Dennard would have given Powers a heck of a run for it, as for that stud wide receiver Tommy Streeter would have made a solid #2 with potential to be a number 1

now being positive is good but ignoring obvious concerns is a sure fire recipe for disaster, wait till we play the Patriots

1- Granted that could be a big part of it. I don't believe it is anywhere near the entire basis for the A rating. It may be for you since it doesn't seem that you like anything they did after the second round.

2- Who cares what they are paying him? It is a sunk cost that they can't get out from under short of straight up releasing him. I am not saying its not a need I just don't see it as glaring a need as others that they addressed. This isn't the only draft the Colts are ever going to have. I expect them to go hard and heavy on upgrading the D after having a year to evaluate what they have on the team in the new scheme.

3- Alfonso Dennard? You mean the guy who punched a cop? Ya I don't think I have any problems letting him go to the Pats let them deal with him. I would have been fine with Streeter though hardly consider him the "stud" you talked about. Here is what Walter football has to say about him.

Streeter is raw and needs a lot of work as a route-runner. His draft stock probably could have been enhanced if he had returned to Miami for his senior season before going pro.

I don't think anyone has the illusion that the team is going to be great next season. Being good might even be a stretch though that isn't the point of a rebuilding team. The point is to progress as a team with the new parts they have drafted. Giving Luck two TE's and a couple WR's to grow with is much more important than building the D from day one. Once the team is ready to compete I fully expect both sides of the ball to be greatly improved. This was the first step in that process.

[GAColt]

1-simply put, that A the media and you are talking about stands for Andrew, take him off our picks and you wouldnt have liked our grade

You can't really evaluate the draft without Andrew. They are building the team around him. If you have an average QB, you might build a team based on defense and ball control like Baltimore and SF, but if you have an elite QB you build the team to compliment his talent.

[coltsguy510]

Just adding my I think the thing you have to remember here is history. It shows that if you pick #1 at QB but fail to surround that QB with talent what you will have is a mess...with bust potential. Think Jeff George or Jamarcus Russell (Raiders wouldn't even give him a QB coach). This team was really bad...the defense was really bad because the offense couldn't stay on the field more than 3 downs. I don't think you can really judge our defense last year at all IMHO. I think Pagano and his team believe they need a full year to evaluate the players on our defense. Let's be honest...we have a solid foundation on defense:

D-Line: Moala, Johnson, Matthews, Nevis (DT), McKinney, Chapman (NT)

LB Core: Freeney (OLB), Mathis (OLB), Connor (OLB) Angerer (ILB), Harvey (ILB)

Safeties: Zbikowsky, Lefeged (SS), Bethea (FS)

Corners: Powers, Caldwell, Thomas, Rucker

Now I agree that we are thin at corner and free safety but I think we are currently carrying a corner or two that might make a great safety. I also think we can manage through 2013 until next year's draft and get those players that we need to fully build this defense. So now in two years you have offense and defense where they need to be...I like it!

I also think our O-line will be much better with the rookies coming back from injury and a year of learning about the NFL plus what we've added in free agency.

I really like where we're going!!!

I agree.

[Carlos Danger]

Whereas running backs, offensive line, and defenders can step in immediately and make an impact, passers and pass catchers seem to require at minimum 2 years to develop.

Agreed... and the change in our defensive scheme is going to be so drastic that it is impossible to tell what we have ATM. I'm glad that Grigson isn't jumping to conclusions about needs on D before we've had a chance to see what they actually are.

[Scott Pennock]

The pick that intrigues me the most is the running back.............all publications says he is instinctive, runs well inside, catches well and pass blocks well......just doesn't have long speed.........so kind of like an Edge (post injury) perhaps?

Scored 29 tds in two years with 5 ypc versus SEC defenses.............that is productive.

Additionally, Mayock (I think) said after he was drafted that he may be the starter................could be why he was drafted, it was a back that Grigson/Pagano/Arians liked better than the current trio of Brown/Carter/Evans?

Just a thought?

[alwaysright]

I loved this draft. Luck, Fleener, Allen, Hilton... very good start for the Colts future. This needed to happen, I'm glad we have Luck and moved on from Peyton. I really think Luck is going to be better than Peyton.