Thoughts after draft

[braveheartcolt]

We'll have to agree to disagree. The one yr. we won the superbowl was solely because the defense stepped up bigtime and shutdown teams running games. Manning did not have a good postseason that yr. and we won from running the ball and stopping the run. I don't think thats coincidental.

We won the SB because 3 out of 4 opponents in the play-offs had poor offenses. And we got lucky, and PM caught fire, against the other.

[braveheartcolt]

We got Luck. Everyone else is a bonus. We have personally witnessed how much of a lottery the draft is, these past half dozen years, so how people get so high or so low on these guys is pretty illogical. I'm totally ambivalent and will just enjoy watching it unfold. We still have no real clue how good or bad last years draft was yet.

[BrentMc11]

I just wanted the guys and gals here know for some reason I have used my likes for the day......there would have been a lot here. I love the positive nature for most posters.

I will say again that Pagano knows defense....Anderson had Ed Reed in the secondary....if they wanted a CB they would have picked one. This is NO LONGER the Coyer Prevent a win defense....it will attack and our DBs will be better and have a chance to make plays. Andy Dalton went 17-21 in a dink and dunk attack that featured LBs 7 yrds back....DBs 12 rds back.....NOT HAPPENING under Pagano!!!!!

[Gavin]

it really just goes to show you if your really high on a guy dont worry so much about reaching, thats how you will get the guy you want and most likely the best guys, sure can a reach turn out bad? of course but at least you got the guy you want and more then likely if its an early round guy you reached on then it will pan out especially with proper coaching

[HtownColt]

Yes Mark, we all understand it's a passing league now, but if you don't at least have a decent defense, you will go nowhere in the playoffs. The Colts proved this time and time again over the last 12 yrs.. I don't think anybody is expecting Baltimore's defense, but we need to at least be able to stop a team from hogging the ball for 45 out of 60 minutes a game.

Jaguars had a top 5 defense and no offense(outside of MJD) and look where that got them..all u need in this league is an optimistic defense that can make a team one dimensional

[FightLikeSin]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

Clearly they think that our offense needs way more help than our defense. And I've agreed with that way of thinking long before the draft. They addressed the defense in FA and they addressed the O-line as well. Do I think they should have drafted more defense? Yes. But, I think grabbing the two best TE's in the draft was a brilliant move. They pretty much dedicated the entire draft to making sure Luck had plenty of weapons. Which is what they needed to do.

I don't know much about T.Y. Hilton, but from the highlights I've seen, maybe Luck won't have to start the drive on the 11 yard line like Peyton always had to. I think when Grigson took Hilton, he saw the next Desean Jackson.

LOVE the Chapman pick. He'll be the starter day 1.

[bavanlan]

all u need in this league is an optimistic defense that can make a team one dimensional

Then we should be investing in psychiatrists, not football players.

[Jay Kirk]

Im excited to see how things come together i for one think this team can be much better than people think,The defense will be vastly improved and fun to watch,Offense will be a growing process but if Luck is as good and as NFL ready as they say,this team will be good enough to make people take notice.

[HtownColt]

Then we should be investing in psychiatrists, not football players.

Oh you are one of those guys smh

gotta break things down to you can't read between lines

[bavanlan]

Oh you are one of those guys smh

gotta break things down to you can't read between lines

It was a joke.

I took it to mean you wanted an "opportunistic" defense, not a defense that was "optimistic" (i.e. has a positive outlook on life).

[HtownColt]

It was a joke.

I took it to mean you wanted an "opportunistic" defense, not a defense that was "optimistic" (i.e. has a positive outlook on life).

Optimistic means taking a favorable view of events(defensive plays) and expecting the most favorable outcome

[bavanlan]

Optimistic means taking a favorable view of events(defensive plays) and expecting the most favorable outcome

Interesting.

I have never heard that adjective applied in that manner. Usually it's 'confident'.

[HtownColt]

Interesting.

I have never heard that adjective applied in that manner. Usually it's 'confident'.

Yep me and my good pal Dictionary.com seem to agree with the interpretation of the term

[BrentMc11]

Im excited to see how things come together i for one think this team can be much better than people think,The defense will be vastly improved and fun to watch,Offense will be a growing process but if Luck is as good and as NFL ready as they say,this team will be good enough to make people take notice.

We need to get across the 50 and hold teams down with stingy D and special teams play. McAfee will kick long field goals this year. We need to keep Adam V accurate under 50 yrds.

[AFCSouth]

I think that we can go 9-7, sweep the Jags, and at least split with the Titans and Texans.

[bavanlan]

Yep me and my good pal Dictionary.com seem to agree with the interpretation of the term

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you. Pull the stick out.

[Flash7]

Some have mentioned that we already have Wayne, Collie, and Avery and that we didn't need to address our receiving corps. Let's re-examine this. Wayne is at the end of his career and it would make sense to bring in receivers to learn from him now and develope for when he reitres. Collie is a very good receiver, but we are all worried if he will be able to avoid the big hit, so it would make sense to have his back up ready. And Avery's health is also on everyone's minds. It would make sense to have a back-up for him as well. Add in two of the draft's top TE's and a runningback and we have addressed our offensive needs. We added an O=lineman for depth through the draft and URFA's. I think our offense has a lot of potential. Our defense was address through FA earlier, as well as adding Chapman. I think the team is greatly improved.

[BrentMc11]

Some have mentioned that we already have Wayne, Collie, and Avery and that we didn't need to address our receiving corps. Let's re-examine this. Wayne is at the end of his career and it would make sense to bring in receivers to learn from him now and develope for when he reitres. Collie is a very good receiver, but we are all worried if he will be able to avoid the big hit, so it would make sense to have his back up ready. And Avery's health is also on everyone's minds. It would make sense to have a back-up for him as well. Add in two of the draft's top TE's and a runningback and we have addressed our offensive needs. We added an O=lineman for depth through the draft and URFA's. I think our offense has a lot of potential. Our defense was address through FA earlier, as well as adding Chapman. I think the team is greatly improved.

Good points Flash777. People forget our front 7 was respectable even in the worst example of Cover 2/Tampa 2 in the history of the defense.

Grigs and Pagano have watched the film and know what they have in the secondary. The secondary will succeed in an attacking defense that disguises its blitz packages. HMMMM! Blitz.....there is a rarity in the last few years..

[#12]

You can't rebuild this team in one draft. This is a talent-poor team, and has been for years. Manning made everyone look infinitely better than they were. Luck is a great talent, but can he have the same effect at 22 years old? I doubt it. You need two more drafts and two more years of free agency. If they are in playoff competition by 2014, we should be happy. And doing so by 2014 would be optimistic.

[#12]

Some have mentioned that we already have Wayne, Collie, and Avery and that we didn't need to address our receiving corps. Let's re-examine this. Wayne is at the end of his career and it would make sense to bring in receivers to learn from him now and develope for when he reitres. Collie is a very good receiver, but we are all worried if he will be able to avoid the big hit, so it would make sense to have his back up ready. And Avery's health is also on everyone's minds. It would make sense to have a back-up for him as well. Add in two of the draft's top TE's and a runningback and we have addressed our offensive needs. We added an O=lineman for depth through the draft and URFA's. I think our offense has a lot of potential. Our defense was address through FA earlier, as well as adding Chapman. I think the team is greatly improved.

Yes, you could argue that, with Collie's and Avery's injury history, the Colts only had one reliable receiver and no pass-catching tight ends on the roster.

[HtownColt]

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you. Pull the stick out.

embrace debate like espn first take like my main man Skip Bayless

[bavanlan]

embrace debate like espn first take like my main man Skip Bayless

Hard to do that when we're not spewing crap just to get people to tune in.

[BrentMc11]

Hard to do that when we're not spewing crap just to get people to tune in.

I hope you guys are teasing each other....we have kept the arguing to a minimum lately. The key word is good clean debate. I get caught up too sometimes.....and have fun. Not getting on you guys, just making sure we are not just trying to prod each other. Thanks.

[Corndog]

Obviously I liked Andrew Luck, but here's the rest...

2.Cody Fleener- Pretty good pick for talent, there were a few better like Cordy Glenn, but this team obviously likes what they saw of Fleener. Basically an extra WR for Luck, not a very good blocker in college, probably a bad one in the NFL.

3. Dwayne Allen- As far as talent goes a very good pick, for needs not so much. Another weaker blocking TE, although probably better than Fleener, two poorer blocking TEs isn't the smartest thing. There is a reason Polian would only get one TE that couldn't block, but usually looked for ones that did both. TE's blocking helps out.

3-2. Ty Hilton- Not sure why they traded here, talent wise okay, but I am betting they could have got him or atleast someone just as talented a few picks bad. With the Avery pick up, the team is okay with WRs, looks to be a punt/kick returner type like Garcon, very fast and is a deep threat. Okay, still rather have a good CB and they were available at this point.

5. Josh Chapman- Probably my favorite pick of the draft, this might have made up for not picking up a NT earlier as Chapman was projected as high as the 2nd/3rd round. Very good pick talent wise and fills a need, a double plus. He is a little rough around the edges and will need work, but projects to be a starter.

5-2. Vick Ballard- Acceptable talent wise for the last part of the 5th round, but not great. Overall I actually think this pick is pretty solid. Could be a 3rd and short power running back. Something this team could really use. He can also block well, another bonus. So he can be in for pass protection, as a lead blocker for another RB and short gains. Although people will say it's just another RB, this is a different style and many teams have short gain and 1st/2nd down RBs, he works good to compliment Brown and Carter.

6. LaVon Brazil- okay talentwise and bad need wise. We already basically drafted three WRs, one for real and signed one in FA. No need for this, something they could have done with UDFA, I rather see a CB/S atleast for depth since the 6th round usually isn't moves to improve starting roster.

7.Justin Anderson- For the 7th round, pretty good talent wise and need wise. Adds a little depth to the line. Should have drafted O-line earlier, but we NEEDED two WRs and two TEs(well actually we kind of did).

7-2.Chandler Harnish- Pretty good. Might have gotten a serviceable backup in the 7th round, time will tell. Actually hopefully not. This team actually did need another QB as people have complained about and this is better than signing one in the last minute.

Overall-Good, I'd give it a B-. I would give them an A for the talent they drafted and a C- for the position needs. Two non-blocking receiving TEs does not make sense to me, especially back to back in the 2nd and 3rd round. One on the TEs should have been taken in later rounds. There was alot of great talent that could have been and needed to be added to this team on the O-line and CB position. Two WRs make zero sense to me, one was fine. The second could have been added with UDFA, especially since he will not be a starter and even their first backup. I rather add depth to CB/S, where it is needed and 6-7 round talent would atleast be acceptable for the backup position.

[BrentMc11]

Obviously I liked Andrew Luck, but here's the rest...

2.Cody Fleener- Pretty good pick for talent, there were a few better like Cordy Glenn, but this team obviously likes what they saw of Fleener. Basically an extra WR for Luck, not a very good blocker in college, probably a bad one in the NFL.

3. Dwayne Allen- As far as talent goes a very good pick, for needs not so much. Another weaker blocking TE, although probably better than Fleener, two poorer blocking TEs isn't the smartest thing. There is a reason Polian would only get one TE that couldn't block, but usually looked for ones that did both. TE's blocking helps out.

3-2. Ty Hilton- Not sure why they traded here, talent wise okay, but I am betting they could have got him or atleast someone just as talented a few picks bad. With the Avery pick up, the team is okay with WRs, looks to be a punt/kick returner type like Garcon, very fast and is a deep threat. Okay, still rather have a good CB and they were available at this point.

5. Josh Chapman- Probably my favorite pick of the draft, this might have made up for not picking up a NT earlier as Chapman was projected as high as the 2nd/3rd round. Very good pick talent wise and fills a need, a double plus. He is a little rough around the edges and will need work, but projects to be a starter.

5-2. Vick Ballard- Acceptable talent wise for the last part of the 5th round, but not great. Overall I actually think this pick is pretty solid. Could be a 3rd and short power running back. Something this team could really use. He can also block well, another bonus. So he can be in for pass protection, as a lead blocker for another RB and short gains. Although people will say it's just another RB, this is a different style and many teams have short gain and 1st/2nd down RBs, he works good to compliment Brown and Carter.

6. LaVon Brazil- okay talentwise and bad need wise. We already basically drafted three WRs, one for real and signed one in FA. No need for this, something they could have done with UDFA, I rather see a CB/S atleast for depth since the 6th round usually isn't moves to improve starting roster.

7.Justin Anderson- For the 7th round, pretty good talent wise and need wise. Adds a little depth to the line. Should have drafted O-line earlier, but we NEEDED two WRs and two TEs(well actually we kind of did).

7-2.Chandler Harnish- Pretty good. Might have gotten a serviceable backup in the 7th round, time will tell. Actually hopefully not. This team actually did need another QB as people have complained about and this is better than signing one in the last minute.

Overall-Good, I'd give it a B-. I would give them an A for the talent they drafted and a C- for the position needs. Two non-blocking receiving TEs does not make sense to me, especially back to back in the 2nd and 3rd round. One on the TEs should have been taken in later rounds. There was alot of great talent that could have been and needed to be added to this team on the O-line and CB position. Two WRs make zero sense to me, one was fine. The second could have been added with UDFA, especially since he will not be a starter and even their first backup. I rather add depth to CB/S, where it is needed and 6-7 round talent would atleast be acceptable for the backup position.

I need 77 corn dogs to read this....need to make a cocktail....I forgot..I cannot have corn dogs. I am kidding, but need to read what you have to say. Is this the unabridged version or Cliff's Notes?

[Corndog]

I need 77 corn dogs to read this....need to make a cocktail....I forgot..I cannot have corn dogs. I am kidding, but need to read what you have to say. Is this the unabridged version or Cliff's Notes?

Yeah it's pretty long, I went through each player and my thoughts on them. Had to do homework and work all weekend, so I didn't get to say it one player at a time.

Well if you can't have corndogs, I am sorry, they are pretty good. But go ahead and make a cocktail, or make it easier and bring the entire bottle. Cliff Notes, no well I guess here are some.

Didn't like drafting two tight ends, especially two who can't block well. Favorite pick besides Andrew Luck, Josh Chapman in the 5th. Didn't like drafting two WRs, the later one LaVon Brazil would be better served with a UDFA pick up. Did not like that the o-line was basically ignored and no CBs were drafted. Thought we did well talent wise on the pick ups, but didn't think some of the picks were the best need wise. Talent- A Needs- C-, overall B-

[HtownColt]

I hope you guys are teasing each other....we have kept the arguing to a minimum lately. The key word is good clean debate. I get caught up too sometimes.....and have fun. Not getting on you guys, just making sure we are not just trying to prod each other. Thanks.

its all fun and games on my end lol

[BrentMc11]

its all fun and games on my end lol

I thought it was.....this has been a great thread...Not picking on ya....from an outsiders standpoint was getting 'chippy.' Have fun buddy!

[BrentMc11]

Yeah it's pretty long, I went through each player and my thoughts on them. Had to do homework and work all weekend, so I didn't get to say it one player at a time.

Well if you can't have corndogs, I am sorry, they are pretty good. But go ahead and make a cocktail, or make it easier and bring the entire bottle. Cliff Notes, no well I guess here are some.

Didn't like drafting two tight ends, especially two who can't block well. Favorite pick besides Andrew Luck, Josh Chapman in the 5th. Didn't like drafting two WRs, the later one LaVon Brazil would be better served with a UDFA pick up. Did not like that the o-line was basically ignored and no CBs were drafted. Thought we did well talent wise on the pick ups, but didn't think some of the picks were the best need wise. Talent- A Needs- C-, overall B-

I will check it out.....love all opinions. Had to chuckle when I first saw the length.....time and effort after a long weekend = Passion!!!

[southwest1]

Good points Flash777. People forget our front 7 was respectable even in the worst example of Cover 2/Tampa 2 in the history of the defense.

Grigs and Pagano have watched the film and know what they have in the secondary. The secondary will succeed in an attacking defense that disguises its blitz packages. HMMMM! Blitz.....there is a rarity in the last few years..

This is why I admire & respect you so bleeping much Brent!!! Perhaps, it is your savvy Special Teams & baseball expertise...You are never afraid to bring the heat & I love you for that!!! Even if you get beat occasionally, never be afraid to make the opposing offense uneasy & uncomfortable. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACK!!! "Simple Me Complicated You." Can you say turnovers? HA! HA!

[Jay Kirk]

Im so entertained ,i forgot what the thread was lol

[KarlKuffs]

yes ignoring all that defensive talent was the way to go especially for a punt returner and a 7th round quarterback that wont likely be on the roster come the start of the season and likely way before that lol

Yeah, kick returners never have any kind of impact on a game. And we've always been strong there, so we certainly didn't need one of those.

And we would have built a real monster defense if only we would have used the last pick in the entire draft on a defensive player.....lol

I think you've been Polianized in that you think that a good defense can be built using late round picks and undrafted free agents. Unfortunately, we have a limited number of draft picks each year, so we'll have to wait until next offseason and next draft in order to find talented difference makers to put on defense. This season will be used to install the 3-4 and to see which of our players fit and which need to be upgraded. And i'm fine with that.

[Gavin]

Yeah, kick returners never have any kind of impact on a game. And we've always been strong there, so we certainly didn't need one of those.

And we would have built a real monster defense if only we would have used the last pick in the entire draft on a defensive player.....lol

I think you've been Polianized in that you think that a good defense can be built using late round picks and undrafted free agents. Unfortunately, we have a limited number of draft picks each year, so we'll have to wait until next offseason and next draft in order to find talented difference makers to put on defense. This season will be used to install the 3-4 and to see which of our players fit and which need to be upgraded. And i'm fine with that.

I know Im tired of watching our team have to go through shootouts nearly every game, some of these mid to late round picks will have to prove themselves for sure before I go off and say they were the best player available at that time or were good picks period, as for needing a kick returner given the new rules those arent as important as they once were, as for punt returning we had plenty of wide receivers that are depth guys that could try out for that, I mean the guy we drafted for that has great skills at it in college, lets hope it translates to the NFL. Im not trying to be so negative but we had other issues besides addressing a part of the game thats all but been taken out

[fvantagio]

I loved this draft actually. Surprised by a few picks for sure but its definitely leaving me more excited about the new season then drafts in years past.

Andrew Luck- Starting QB day 1.

Fleener/Allen- Some might not like the 2 TEs, but I see it as 2 weapons. They will both be on the field at once so this decision is no different then it would be to draft 2 wrs. Besides how many receivers were available at the top of the 3rd that once had a first round pick on them?

Ty Hilton- Immediate impact at returner. Also has the potential to be a great slot receiver.

Josh Chapman- NT for the future, steal and immediate contributor (at least in rotation this year)

Vick Ballard- Questioned it at first but after looking into it, could be the missing piece in the backfield. Brown for off tackles/home run hitter. Carter for between the tackles, 4th and 2, goaline etc.. and now Ballard as the 3rd down back, blocking, screens etc. Should also be a contributor this year.

So our first 6 picks should all be making impacts this year! First 5 for sure. Im really just hoping on Ballard but based on this off season im trusting in Grigs and comp.

[Bad Dog]

Moving Freeney and Mathis to LB may be surprising. Both are quick enough to make the transition. Maybe a great move. I think the defense will surprise many people, although corner is weak.

[ruksak]

Vick Ballard- Questioned it at first but after looking into it, could be the missing piece in the backfield. Brown for off tackles/home run hitter. Carter for between the tackles, 4th and 2, goaline etc.. and now Ballard as the 3rd down back, blocking, screens etc.

One thing I'm noticing people forgetting when evaluating this pick is how injury has affected us in recent years at the RB position. Ballard adds a more dynamic competition than we've seen over the years, having to default to non-NFL caliber RB's like Mike Hart, "The other" Ricky Williams and Kenton Keith. Simply put, Ballard may give us true depth as opposed to the illusion of depth that we garnered from the aforementioned.