Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[csmopar]

26 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What are you talking about?  I know that if AR is the guy we will be in good shape.  My point in the entire convo was that Ballard doesn't have to have AR be the guy this season, and he doesn't need to find an important piece of the puzzle right now as some were suggesting.

I agree. I think Irsay is operating on a 3 year plan to see if AR15 pans out or not. That’ll be when Ballards seat gets hot

[GoColts8818]

Just now, csmopar said:

I agree. I think Irsay is operating on a 3 year plan to see if AR15 pans out or not. That’ll be when Ballards seat gets hot

I’d say it’s probably closer to four years (length of Richardson’s rookie deal minus the fifth year option) especially since last year was pretty much a wash.

[Happy2BeHere]

Buy Madden…then you can acquire Sneed and anyone else for fake money! Problem solved. Just play Madden once a week and football season can be year round…then you can fire yourself and hire yourself back saying you’ve learned a lot and you will improve.  

[ADnum1]

I'm hearing Blackmon is visiting the Bills

[ColtStrong2013]

2 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I'm hearing Blackmon is visiting the Bills

my friend Destin said it’s a done deal. 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

I'm hearing Blackmon is visiting the Bills

Yep that’s been reported in a few places.

[Happy2BeHere]

1 minute ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

my friend Destin said it’s a done deal. 

 

nice try…Destin is a city in Florida  

[TomDiggs]

5 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Like I said above... I'm just kind of tired of watching the same thing happen every year under Ballard.

 

... But do those moves actually have any serious impact? Do they raise the ceiling of this team. I feel like Ballard has resigned himself to the draft and I can't help but follow suit and just have all my hopes for this team tied to the draft. And this is happening with a QB on rookie deal too... I have no idea why I believed him when he was hinting he might change his approach now that he can afford more things now that his QB is really cheap... 

these parts of @stitches post resonate most w me. I admit I am usually a Ballard supporter. Love his eye for talent. And generally agree w the approach to not overpay for the top tier free agents because the ones that hit the open market usually do for a reason and they reset the market when they aren’t the elite of the elite and don’t deserve to be the ones resetting the market. 
 

that said , now is the time to push hard when you have your rookie contract qb. And I’d bet behind the scenes the colts did and they fell short. 
 

Hunter is a great example. If he truly took less to go play at home then what can you do? 
 

the funny things is this:

 

if you said the colts signed a top-3 free agent wr and a top cb and a top DT and that they spent around $200M in free agency, we would all be throwing our hands up in praise and hallelujah. 
 

thsts what they just did. But it Doesn’t feel that way because all of those guys were our home grown guys. So we didn’t really get better as a team. We spent that to just remain at the level we were at. 
 

I don’t see any guys out there worth throwing major money at currently. I wanted Sneed. But that drama got to be exhausting and I don’t think he’s a $22M deserving guy either, especially not when trade compensation goes along w that cost. 
 

I will say this:

 

last year I was hell bent on needing OL upgrades. We did nothing. I thought we were doomed running it back w the same cast and just a new coach. I was wrong and sparano killed it. I think the exact same thing could happen this year for our DL. 
 

if we make a couple solid secondary signings then we can allocate draft resources to critical areas and see a jump. 
 

after all, we spent recent fairly high draft capital in pierce, downs, woods, Brents, cross. Those guys haven’t made their leaps yet and if they do they’re a major improvement more so than free agency likely would bring. I have honest faith in this team if Richardson gets and stays healthy. But I’d love to add another elite pass catcher at 15 (please Thomas or Bowers if he’s there) or invest in Arnold or Mitchell and take advantage of the crazy wr depth and grab a good one in round two. 
 

I don’t see this as doom or gloom. And I do truly hope we live to see some exciting free agency news one of these years. This year it just happened to be all the internal re-signings were actually the right big money moves. 
 

but man, Sneed would have been fun lol

[ColtStrong2013]

8 minutes ago, Happy2BeHere said:

 

nice try…Destin is a city in Florida  

beautiful beaches. My friend Destin said there is anyways. 

[AwesomeAustin]

This Sneed thing was quite the doozy. At one point I’m sure the far majority of us thought he was a Colt. I expect a couple guys to be signed to the secondary at 1-2yr contracts and we go BPA at CB, WR and Edge in the first two rounds of the draft. 

[richard pallo]

51 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Holder’s side if anyone is interested 

 

Even if you don’t like Holder this is worth listening too.  Basically the Colts were really in on Hunter and got beat and decided not to go after Sneed so they handed out all those contracts to keep their own.  
 

Holder said they are pinning their hopes on Richardson and him making them better than they were with Minshew.  He also makes it pretty clear he thinks they are going corner at 15.

 

He also said he thinks the Colts like their young secondary a lot more than most of us do and they are banking on their young guys getting better.  He did say he does expect some moves in the secondary but it’s probably not going to be a Sneed level guy.

 

He also brought up Franklin saying we need to go get some banners now and Holder told some in the Colts organization that and they loved that because that’s how they feel.  They have invested in their core and now expect them to deliver and will hold them accountable to do so.  

I’ve been thinking corner all along at 15.  Terion Arnold is my choice.

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I’ve been thinking corner all along at 15.  Terion Arnold is my choice.

it makes sense to go defense, in my opinion. Whether pass rusher or corner. Top of the board. Receiver class is strong, and we have opportunities to add a good player to the room on day 2. But if the best player is a cornerback- then that should be who we choose. Perhaps they look at KC and feel they are positioned to develop the same corners they have in Snead/mcduffie with brents/arnold or someone else.  
 

Who are the most Ballard like corners this draft? 

[richard pallo]

10 minutes ago, AwesomeAustin said:

This Sneed thing was quite the doozy. At one point I’m sure the far majority of us thought he was a Colt. I expect a couple guys to be signed to the secondary at 1-2yr contracts and we go BPA at CB, WR and Edge in the first two rounds of the draft. 

Agree.  I would be surprised if it was Simmons or Diggs now.  Edwards makes more sense.  Maybe TraDavis White on a year deal as well.  We need a veteran OL addition as well.  I think we can forget about Bowers unless he trades up.  Can’t pass up a chance at a premier prospect at corner.  Need playmakers in the secondary.

[Hawkeyecolt]

41 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

my friend Destin said it’s a done deal. 

You do know that Destin has broke things first in the past.  People need to lay off of Destin.  He does a good job.  I don't doubt for a minute that he was given information that was true.  However, Jim Irsay being able to put all of this guaranteed money into escrow probably was the real hold up.  Ballard is never going to tell you that publicly.  

[ADnum1]

52 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

my friend Destin said it’s a done deal. 

[adubb84]

33 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I’ve been thinking corner all along at 15.  Terion Arnold is my choice.

Me too. Think I’m going to dive in a bit more on him 

[Dobbinblitz]

3 hours ago, csmopar said:

No go on Leonard. He’s done. Needs to retire 

 

 

rock, while I don’t see him coming back, I’d kick the tires on

Was never suggesting we sign either one. Just throwing out info on two former Colts. Cheers!

[w87r]

 

 

[csmopar]

41 minutes ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

You do know that Destin has broke things first in the past.  People need to lay off of Destin.  He does a good job.  I don't doubt for a minute that he was given information that was true.  However, Jim Irsay being able to put all of this guaranteed money into escrow probably was the real hold up.  Ballard is never going to tell you that publicly.  

Haha I was wondering when that comment was gonna be made.  It comes up every single year. And it’s proven false every time. Irsay isn’t cash strapped and would have had zero problem putting anything up into escrow(only a small portion would actually have to come from Irsays pocket if any).

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

25 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Haha I was wondering when that comment was gonna be made.  It comes up every single year. And it’s proven false every time. Irsay isn’t cash strapped and would have had zero problem putting anything up into escrow(only a small portion would actually have to come from Irsays pocket if any).

 

 

“Proven false every year.”   I’m completely unaware of that.   And I’m here every day. 

Plus….   I wouldn’t be so sure that Irsay doesn’t have cash flow trouble from time to time.  
 

Your post is stated as fact.   Feels very much like opinion to me.    You might be right, but I don’t think anyone knows. 

[RollerColt]

20 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

Just posted that video in a new thread, you can delete it if you want. 

[NewColtsFan]

Feels like a good time to issue a reminder.  Two years ago, J’Ville spent a fortune in FA.   That was the year they surprised the NFL giving the little WR, Kirk 4/72 which had incentives into the $80’s.   And J’Ville went on to have a good season. 
 

Many here showered the Jaguars with applause and wondered why can’t the Colts do that?!   But here’s what they forget….

 

In the 10 years BEFORE that one, no team spent more in FA than the Jaguars.   $1.4 BILLION dollars.  That’s billion with a B.  And I think they had one post season appearance to show for it.  So most years Jacksonville “won” free agency and they had almost nothing to show for it. 
 

So when @GoColts8818 says the “winner” of FA typically doesn’t have a very good season, he is correct.  It was his comment that triggered my memory about Jacksonville’s lost decade.  Thanks, GC! 

[DattMavis]

6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Feels like a good time to issue a reminder.  Two years ago, J’Ville spent a fortune in FA.   That was the year they surprised the NFL giving the little WR, Kirk 4/72 which had incentives into the $80’s.   And J’Ville went on to have a good season. 
 

Many here showered the Jaguars with applause and wondered why can’t the Colts do that?!   But here’s what they forget….

 

In the 10 years BEFORE that one, no team spent more in FA than the Jaguars.   $1.4 BILLION dollars.  That’s billion with a B.  And I think they had one post season appearance to show for it.  So most years Jacksonville “won” free agency and they had almost nothing to show for it. 
 

So when @GoColts8818 says the “winner” of FA typically doesn’t have a very good season, he is correct.  It was his comment that triggered my memory about Jacksonville’s lost decade.  Thanks, GC! 

In 2015 the Colts were considered winners of free agency. Granted there were a few good signings, but we haven't been the same since. Ever since then, I've been completely fine with not signing free agents. 😅

[GoColts8818]

10 minutes ago, DattMavis said:

In 2015 the Colts were considered winners of free agency. Granted there were a few good signings, but we haven't been the same since. Ever since then, I've been completely fine with not signing free agents. 😅

Frankly the whole Grigson era turned me off of making all the bold moves people want.  He would and they almost always blew up in the Colts faces.  He was saved by the fact he had Andrew Luck and he was just too good to be bad.  Ironically I think if Ballard had had Andrew Luck for his whole time as GM we would be looking at another golden era of Colts football and it would be have been interesting to note both came with the philosophy of build through the draft and reward your own.  Oh well if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we’d all have a Merry Christmas.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

Who are the most Ballard like corners this draft? 

Who has the best RAS score?

[GoColts8818]

56 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

“Proven false every year.”   I’m completely unaware of that.   And I’m here every day. 

Plus….   I wouldn’t be so sure that Irsay doesn’t have cash flow trouble from time to time.  
 

Your post is stated as fact.   Feels very much like opinion to me.    You might be right, but I don’t think anyone knows. 

One of the great things the NFL does is getting people to believe they aren’t rich.   The league made 17 billion dollars in 2021 in revenue.  The average NFL team is worth 5.1 billion dollars.  These guys aren’t broke or strapped for cash.  They can afford these things.  
 

For what it’s worth Holder is reporting that the Colts made the decision not to go after Sneed and then gave that money to all the guys they re-signed last week and had they gone after Sneed it would have been as the expense of some of those guys, specifically Kenny Moore and perhaps Grover Stewartt which tracks with Kenny at least being the last of the group to re-sign.  Physical money wasn’t the issue.  The Colts simply made a choice.  

[GoColts8818]

3 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Holder’s side if anyone is interested 

 

Even if you don’t like Holder this is worth listening too.  Basically the Colts were really in on Hunter and got beat and decided not to go after Sneed so they handed out all those contracts to keep their own.  
 

Holder said they are pinning their hopes on Richardson and him making them better than they were with Minshew.  He also makes it pretty clear he thinks they are going corner at 15.

 

He also said he thinks the Colts like their young secondary a lot more than most of us do and they are banking on their young guys getting better.  He did say he does expect some moves in the secondary but it’s probably not going to be a Sneed level guy.

 

He also brought up Franklin saying we need to go get some banners now and Holder told some in the Colts organization that and they loved that because that’s how they feel.  They have invested in their core and now expect them to deliver and will hold them accountable to do so.  

One last thing, he notes at the end this is Ballard’s MO but he understands why people are frustrated with it because it needs to start producing results.  

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

You do know that Destin has broke things first in the past.  People need to lay off of Destin.  He does a good job.  I don't doubt for a minute that he was given information that was true.  However, Jim Irsay being able to put all of this guaranteed money into escrow probably was the real hold up.  Ballard is never going to tell you that publicly.  

It seems that folks should lay off of all these insiders. They are sharing information as they hear them. I believe folks here became upset with Destin, not because of what he did or said, but because other insiders were criticized and disparaged for sharing news that was opposite of what Destin had reported.

 

We all have insiders that we prefer. I personally like Tom Pelissero, but I'm sure he has made mistakes too. Let's just give all of them a break. Without them, it would take a lot longer for us fans to learn about news involving our favorite teams.

 

[NFLfan]

39 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

it would be have been interesting to note both came with the philosophy of build through the draft and reward your own

 

That is the approach to building a team that I prefer. I never saw Grigson as following that approach. He seemed to sign many free agents that did not work. But Ballard does follow that approach, almost to a fault.

[ColtStrong2013]

2 hours ago, Hawkeyecolt said:

You do know that Destin has broke things first in the past.  People need to lay off of Destin.  He does a good job.  I don't doubt for a minute that he was given information that was true.  However, Jim Irsay being able to put all of this guaranteed money into escrow probably was the real hold up.  Ballard is never going to tell you that publicly.  

You do know it’s just a joke right… I’m not on twitter, I don’t follow the guy or any guys. I see stuff that is posted on here and engage, but always take reports with a grain of salt. You never have a guy on the roster until the contract is signed and the trade is official. 
 

There is a lot Ballard isn’t going to say publicly. His ability to manipulate q and a’s to do exactly that is a strength. “Look- I like Destin… he just needs more time in the reporting field.” - Chris Ballard probably 

3 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is the approach to building a team that I prefer. I never saw Grigson as following that approach. He seemed to sign many free agents that did not work. But Ballard does follow that approach, almost to a fault.

because Grigson couldn’t draft after the layup he had with Andrew Luck, and hitting on T.Y Hilton… 

[NewColtsFan]

33 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

One of the great things the NFL does is getting people to believe they aren’t rich.   The league made 17 billion dollars in 2021 in revenue.  The average NFL team is worth 5.1 billion dollars.  These guys aren’t broke or strapped for cash.  They can afford these things.  
 

For what it’s worth Holder is reporting that the Colts made the decision not to go after Sneed and then gave that money to all the guys they re-signed last week and had they gone after Sneed it would have been as the expense of some of those guys, specifically Kenny Moore and perhaps Grover Stewartt which tracks with Kenny at least being the last of the group to re-sign.  Physical money wasn’t the issue.  The Colts simply made a choice.  

There are 32 teams.   Not all teams are created equal.   There are built in advantages that big market teams have that small market teams don’t.   It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. 

[GoColts8818]

4 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

It seems that folks should lay off of all these insiders. They are sharing information as they hear them. I believe folks here became upset with Destin, not because of what he did or said, but because other insiders were criticized and disparaged for sharing news that was opposite of what Destin had reported.

 

We all have insiders that we prefer. I personally like Tom Pelissero, but I'm sure he has made mistakes too. Let's just give all of them a break. Without them, it would take a lot longer for us fans to learn about news involving our favorite teams.

 

My issue all along hasn’t been with Destin.  It’s been with the random people on twitter who report something and claim they are an insider like pretty Rickey.  
 

Like I said I think Destin is a young kid trying to make it in reporting and has to start somewhere.  With that said, something Holder said at the end of his interview this is his living so if he reports something he knows it knows it and can’t afford to be wrong.  Destin admitted when he reported this he didn’t have the contract part of it confirmed and he broke a cardinal rule in reporting, you don’t report something unless you know all of it for sure.  I hope he learns from this.

 

Its pretty easy to tell from the Holder interview he was hearing about Sneed all the way back to the combine and that the Colts were disappointed when he was franchised tag and he wasn’t just a free agent.  So he’s been hearing about this probably as long if not longer than Destin has. He didn’t report it though because he didn’t have things nailed down.  
 

worth noting Holder did not and has not taken a shot at Destin.  Destin said he respected Holder and knows how hard he works.  Maybe we can all learn a little something from how they treated each other in this and didn’t attack each other.  

[GoColts8818]

7 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

That is the approach to building a team that I prefer. I never saw Grigson as following that approach. He seemed to sign many free agents that did not work. But Ballard does follow that approach, almost to a fault.

Oh he didn’t the other era I was referring to with the draft well and keep your we approach was Polian not Grigson.  I should have been more clear.  

[dw49]

2 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Agree.  I would be surprised if it was Simmons or Diggs now.  Edwards makes more sense.  Maybe TraDavis White on a year deal as well.  We need a veteran OL addition as well.  I think we can forget about Bowers unless he trades up.  Can’t pass up a chance at a premier prospect at corner.  Need playmakers in the secondary.

 

We really do need to sign 2 safeties  and I think Edwards and one of the 2 you mention is not out of then question 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

24 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

One of the great things the NFL does is getting people to believe they aren’t rich.   The league made 17 billion dollars in 2021 in revenue.  The average NFL team is worth 5.1 billion dollars.  These guys aren’t broke or strapped for cash.  They can afford these things.  
 

For what it’s worth Holder is reporting that the Colts made the decision not to go after Sneed and then gave that money to all the guys they re-signed last week and had they gone after Sneed it would have been as the expense of some of those guys.  Physical money wasn’t the issue.  The Colts simply made a choice.  

The truth is Colts can still afford what Sneed asks and also have re-signed all those guys. It's never one or other, as contracts can be restructured/extended to create cap space or convert an existing contract into signing bonus and add void years to push the cap hit into more years.

 

Ballard had not done that in the past, but he'll do it as Colts enter Richardson era.

 

As Stephen Holder claims, it's not expensive Free Agent (not plural) vs own free agents, Holder talks as of it's not technically possible and is being reiterated so here. That's not the case in truth.

 

If Ballard thinks the way Holder says, that might be for this year, unwilling to start getting into cap movements into future, but as he'll be forced to do the same in few years, he might as well start doing it so that such restructures get distributed over many years rather than getting lumped together when Richardson wants to get paid. 

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

There are 32 teams.   Not all teams are created equal.   There are built in advantages that big market teams have that small market teams don’t.   It’s not as cut and dry as you make it out to be. 

Yes but if the average team is worth 5.1 billion dollars and the league makes almost 20 billion a year in revenue and they have revenue sharing like the NFL does even the smallest team in the NFL isn’t hard up for cash.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, VikingsFanInChennai said:

The truth is Colts can still afford what Sneed asks and also have re-signed all those guys. It's never one or other, as contracts can be restructured/extended to create cap space or convert an existing contract into signing bonus and add void years to push the cap hit into more years.

 

Ballard had not done that in the past, but he'll do it as Colts enter Richardson era.

 

As Stephen Holder claims, it's not expensive Free Agent (not plural) vs own free agents, Holder talks as of it's not technically possible and is being reiterated so here. That's not the case in truth.

 

If Ballard thinks the way Holder says, that might be for this year, unwilling to start getting into cap movements into future, but as he'll be forced to do the same in few years, he might as well start doing it so that such restructures get distributed over many years rather than getting lumped together when Richardson wants to get paid. 

Actually they can’t without some restructuring which as has been pointed out the Colts could do but don’t seem interested in it.  When you account for rookies and Flacco they have something like $13 or $14 left and Sneed wants $22 million a year.  That’s also just this year.  The Colts will have more free agents they will want to sign next year like Buckner perhaps that may want a raise and you can’t count on another $30 million cap increase like this year.  

[AKB]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

Others have said it, but as a big Ballard supporter I should join them.  If Richardson  doesn’t work out, Ballard will be fired, and he should be.    Period.  
 

Now he likely will be replaced with either Dodds or Brown, but that’s another topic for another day.  

finally

[NewColtsFan]

27 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Yes but if the average team is worth 5.1 billion dollars and the league makes almost 20 billion a year in revenue and they have revenue sharing like the NFL does even the smallest team in the NFL isn’t hard up for cash.

If I may….    I’ll share some information that I’ve had for about 4 months.   It may or may not surprise you.  This is what I tried to send you the other night but somehow screwed up.   
 

These are the big signing bonuses the Colts have given out over the years when the players 2nd contract came around:  this is from Spotrac. 

 

Nelson:   $31m

Leonard:  $20m

Smith:      $15m

Taylor:      $10.24m

Stewart:    $5m 

 

 

BUT…..    I also found this….

 

*** When Ballard signed Buckner to 4/84 his SB was 0.

*** When Ballard signed Kelly to 4/50 his signing bonus was 0.

*** When Ballard signed Moore to 4/33 his signing bonus was 0. 
*** When Ballard signed MAC to 3/19 his SB was 0. 

 

To be clear, no agent lets their client sign a deal like this out of the goodness of their heart to help the team.  I think it stands to reason they get something in return.  And I think it’s a higher amount of guaranteed money.  That’s money the player would get even if the team cut the player before the contract was done.   Guaranteeing a higher percentage of money doesn’t cost the Colts anything if the team is confident the player will be in the roster for the life of the contract. 
 

I view this as a sign of a small market team.   The Colts wanted to do this.  It’s to their advantage.  I’m not blaming the Colts for doing this, I think it’s smart business.  But I think it’s a sign that from time to time, Irsay needs a little help so he doesn’t have to write a large check.  
 

This is my view.   I welcome input from all. 

 

@w87r   @Superman  @GoColts8818

 

[NFLfan]

27 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

because Grigson couldn’t draft after the layup he had with Andrew Luck, and hitting on T.Y Hilton… 

 

I agree. I cannot recall who else he drafted in 2015 but I could not understand why he drafted the WR out of Miami at #29 that year.